Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

xeose4 posted:

Windwalker is The Best Ghost and I will hear not a single word against it. :colbert:

Oh, I didn't mean he was bad, just, y'know, early access to a single ghost didn't strike me as a big deal compared to the pre-order bonuses for other games of the time. Personally, I'm a fan of Arclight and Static


xeose4 posted:

This is actually not very good later on, when we are introduced to MORTAL ENEMIES. MORTAL ENEMIES are drawn to your wandering ghosts!

That's why you get the enemies Sleepwalking and/or Possessed ASAP. Sleepwalking, of course, being the superior option. Besides, using THE GIFT to move ghosts around is essential in later missions, and that was my favorite mobility trick (since Ghosts that aren't actively using powers are almost never detected, they can get anywhere like that).


xeose4 posted:

I'm going to take a very controversial stand: Brigit is not as hard as Fingers.

There's a trick to getting Fingers, though. Hint: The cook has high base Madness, and you have Quiver's Insane Invitation. Keeping him in the room long enough is the easy part.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

aerion111
Nov 29, 2011

Prodigy of Curiosity.
Master of Jacks.
Apprentice of Masks.
And, when fighting the forces of darkness, always remember: "Armor of Darkness, Weapon of Light"

EclecticTastes posted:

There's a trick to getting Fingers, though. Hint: The cook has high base Madness, and you have Quiver's Insane Invitation. Keeping him in the room long enough is the easy part.

...Man, I wish I'd known of that
I just used 'Fool's Errand' and 'Wild Geese' on him for half an hour until he decided to play nice

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."
Another huge pain in the rear end has gotta be Harriet. You gotta be spot-on if you want to manage it in under half an hour.

xeose4
Sep 22, 2014
Question for everyone! I am thinking of doing a "headquarters" episode where I show everyone what I teach ghosts and take a tour of our home base. I am planning on doing them every so often to keep things up to speed. That said, would you guys rather have it every 2 episodes or at the end of every Act?

EclecticTastes posted:

Personally, I'm a fan of Arclight and Static

Wraiths are the actual Worst Family in the game and one of these days I'm going to go on a huge rant as to why. The other one's cool.

EclecticTastes posted:

That's why you get the enemies Sleepwalking and/or Possessed ASAP. Sleepwalking, of course, being the superior option. Besides, using THE GIFT to move ghosts around is essential in later missions, and that was my favorite mobility trick (since Ghosts that aren't actively using powers are almost never detected, they can get anywhere like that).

When there's only one, sure, but MORTAL ENEMIES often come in threes!

EclecticTastes posted:

There's a trick to getting Fingers, though. Hint: The cook has high base Madness, and you have Quiver's Insane Invitation. Keeping him in the room long enough is the easy part.

Never thought of that. :cripes:

EclecticTastes posted:

Another huge pain in the rear end has gotta be Harriet. You gotta be spot-on if you want to manage it in under half an hour.

That stage did nothing to mollify my undying hatred of children. :argh:

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."
I was just reading stuff online, and, uh. Wow. Turns out if you scare away all the nurses, Greenwood will go to the basement all on his own to get some smooches from the lady that inexplicably spends all her time three feet from Brigit's fetter. Then all you gotta do is use your favorite Apparition to drag him a little closer, or even Brigid herself if you gave the guy some Madness in the course of the level to make him vulnerable to Insane Invitation. Guess Harriet officially wins Biggest Hassle.

Turns out we all suck at Ghost Master. :suicide:

EDIT: Oh, never mind. Turns out it's still no guarantee. Just tested it, and I gave up somewhere during the third or fourth hour (of a single run at the map, mind) of combining every friggin' power I had with me to no avail. I just gave up and finished out of frustration. First time I've ever had to revisit a stage for an unlock.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Nov 2, 2014

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
It seems kind of a shame that a good time run can get ruined by AI pathing that can't run three feet straight ahead.

xeose4
Sep 22, 2014
I am terribly sorry for taking so long, but I had software issues that forced me to reinstall the software AND the game, losing all progress and having to restart the whole thing. And I didn't want to bump the thread unless I had an update ready.

This update is pretty short, but I needed to get it out of the way. I am already working on the next actual stage.

There is an issue with the audio volume that I can't quite fix due to my limited technical knowledge. The narration sounds fine coming out of Audacity, but once I add it onto the video, even emphasising the narration, it ends up sounding extremely low. I will see if I can raise the volume even more in Audacity to compensate for this, but that will be for the next stage.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."
If it saves you work, it might be more efficient to just make a screenshot update to show what new powers you're buying, and just type up your thoughts. Figure it'll save you nearly ten videos worth of editing.

Also, it might be worth noting something that the game never bothers to bring up, but wants you to use, and that's that rain, wind, and cold powers stack with themselves to create more powerful effects (and if things get sufficiently cold, rain turns to snow). Further, rain and wind, when combined properly, can generate a full-on thunderstorm. These are just things to think about during later videos, if you want to solve some of the game's puzzles yourselves while watching the video, before xeose explains how to do it.

Chimera-gui
Mar 20, 2014

EclecticTastes posted:

Also, it might be worth noting something that the game never bothers to bring up, but wants you to use, and that's that rain, wind, and cold powers stack with themselves to create more powerful effects (and if things get sufficiently cold, rain turns to snow). Further, rain and wind, when combined properly, can generate a full-on thunderstorm. These are just things to think about during later videos, if you want to solve some of the game's puzzles yourselves while watching the video, before xeose explains how to do it.

Xeose briefly mentioned it when I commented about one of the ghosts that Weatherwitch can release but yeah a thunderstorm is needed to release the aptly named Stormtalon.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Chimera-gui posted:

Xeose briefly mentioned it when I commented about one of the ghosts that Weatherwitch can release but yeah a thunderstorm is needed to release the aptly named Stormtalon.

And you need to stack up both wind and cold to recruit the ghosts in the Blair Wisp Project, though you may be able to get the wind requirement handled with just Tempest.

xeose4
Sep 22, 2014

EclecticTastes posted:

If it saves you work, it might be more efficient to just make a screenshot update to show what new powers you're buying, and just type up your thoughts. Figure it'll save you nearly ten videos worth of editing.

Also, it might be worth noting something that the game never bothers to bring up, but wants you to use, and that's that rain, wind, and cold powers stack with themselves to create more powerful effects (and if things get sufficiently cold, rain turns to snow). Further, rain and wind, when combined properly, can generate a full-on thunderstorm. These are just things to think about during later videos, if you want to solve some of the game's puzzles yourselves while watching the video, before xeose explains how to do it.

I feel it's more interesting to watch a video that goes over things in a dynamic fashion than it is to read a post full of words and images, but that's just me. :shobon:

Yeah, the game does not do a very good job at explaining you anything beyond the basics. You can turn on the Tutorial Voice Lady for the first stage, but she doesn't go too deep into the mechanics. If you don't get your hands on the Prima Guide like I did, you're going to be left in the dark with regards to most of the game's mechanics.

azren
Feb 14, 2011


Oh, hell yes! I was so sad when the last thread for this was abandoned! Really looking forward to more of it.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Man, what an annoying confirm dialog. It's big and blue and glaring.

Also it doesn't actually confirm what power you want, so there's that too.

But I do like seeing the video pass through all the ghosts and their available new skills. Do you get more skills as the game progresses, or just the currency to buy them?

xeose4
Sep 22, 2014
Not dead, just got a new job that requires a rushed training because they want me to take over the New Year's Eve night shift. I'm pretty much swamped until January. My apologies.

azren
Feb 14, 2011


Eh, life happens. Don't sweat it. Jobs are important.

The Watercrown
Feb 10, 2014

We Shall Become Gods

We Shall Become Gods

WE SHALL ALL DIE AND BECOME AS GODS
While we wait, does anyone want to explain some of the game mechanics with a bit more detail? I love this game, and have played it to completion a couple of times, but I've never really understood some things. For example, some powers cause a stench, or uneasiness, but I don't think I've ever found out what that means, mechanically. Sometimes I'll see mortals with a 'X2' particle effect, but I don't have any idea what caused it. Is there any way to get a Possessed mortal to gain fear without dismissing the ghost possessing them, as in all my playthroughs, they seem immune to everything, although they gain belief at a steady rate. Is there a way to make child-feterred ghosts suck less?

It's a great game, but it leaves a lot of things unexplained. Perhaps some of the fan-sequels will be better at revealing how to exploit all the little game mechanics... if they ever get finished, that is.

Emissary666
Sep 6, 2010

The Watercrown posted:

While we wait, does anyone want to explain some of the game mechanics with a bit more detail? I love this game, and have played it to completion a couple of times, but I've never really understood some things. For example, some powers cause a stench, or uneasiness, but I don't think I've ever found out what that means, mechanically. Sometimes I'll see mortals with a 'X2' particle effect, but I don't have any idea what caused it. Is there any way to get a Possessed mortal to gain fear without dismissing the ghost possessing them, as in all my playthroughs, they seem immune to everything, although they gain belief at a steady rate. Is there a way to make child-feterred ghosts suck less?

It's a great game, but it leaves a lot of things unexplained. Perhaps some of the fan-sequels will be better at revealing how to exploit all the little game mechanics... if they ever get finished, that is.

There is no way to make child-fetters suck less. Fortunately, there is no way to make them suck more. The fact that possessed mortals don't gain fear is actually in the player's benefit, it prevents them from disrupting your plans by running away; the belief bonus makes it much easier to scare them away once you are finished with them.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Emissary666 posted:

There is no way to make child-fetters suck less. Fortunately, there is no way to make them suck more. The fact that possessed mortals don't gain fear is actually in the player's benefit, it prevents them from disrupting your plans by running away; the belief bonus makes it much easier to scare them away once you are finished with them.

Actually, fire still raises a mortal's Fear meter, you notice this the most with Arclight, who has tons of fire-generating powers. However, mortals won't flee while possessed. Now, stenches, the higher-tier ones tend to cause Fear and Belief, but they also tend to cause calm mortals to investigate random fetters (scared mortals run from pretty much anything even vaguely supernatural unless directly compelled to approach), which is really only useful if you need them in range for a ghost recruitment. Anything that makes a mortal uneasy means they're in prime condition to gain bonus Fear from other scary stuff, but abilities that would normally make them curious will instead make them avoid the area. This is slightly oversimplifying some rather complex AI interactions, but this is what I've gleaned in my experiences with Ghost Master.

And yeah, Child Fetters suck.

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

This was the first game that I honest-to-goodness loved, and judging from the way you guys talk shop about it, it seems that I barely
scratched the surface of the mechanics.
In my defense, the advanced stuff wasn't really tutorialized and it's not the sort of thing that you notice playing. For example, I always assumed that Rattle Chains only scared mortals that had REALLY high Belief and had no other effect, so I never took advantage of its ability to gather calm mortals.

paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Dec 17, 2014

The Watercrown
Feb 10, 2014

We Shall Become Gods

We Shall Become Gods

WE SHALL ALL DIE AND BECOME AS GODS

Emissary666 posted:

There is no way to make child-fetters suck less. Fortunately, there is no way to make them suck more. The fact that possessed mortals don't gain fear is actually in the player's benefit, it prevents them from disrupting your plans by running away; the belief bonus makes it much easier to scare them away once you are finished with them.

Actually, I find it more of a detriment. The 'correct' way to handle this bit of game design, in my opinion at least, is to allow possessed mortals to gain fear (at a reduced rate, for balance, and not from the possessing ghost's actions), but be prevented from fleeing until the ghost is manually dismissed, or perhaps by gaining madness instead (because all this spooky stuff is happening ONLY wherever they go). Having them gain no fear whatsoever doesn't make much sense to me, and just annoys me when I'm flicking through the stats and see someone with 0 fear, only to realise when I zoom to them that they're possessed.

Edit: And another I'd like to bring up is sound abilities. Is there any easy way to know their range? Do some sounds have effects beyond their tool-tip description (Like the above mentioned Rattle Chains)?

The Watercrown fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Dec 17, 2014

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

I thought that those spooky circles centered on the ghosts using their powers were meant to communicate their range, but it's been a while since I played this game and I could be wrong.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

The Watercrown posted:

Actually, I find it more of a detriment. The 'correct' way to handle this bit of game design, in my opinion at least, is to allow possessed mortals to gain fear (at a reduced rate, for balance, and not from the possessing ghost's actions), but be prevented from fleeing until the ghost is manually dismissed, or perhaps by gaining madness instead (because all this spooky stuff is happening ONLY wherever they go). Having them gain no fear whatsoever doesn't make much sense to me, and just annoys me when I'm flicking through the stats and see someone with 0 fear, only to realise when I zoom to them that they're possessed.

Arclight is the best ghost with Possess, anyway, and fire causes fear in possessed mortals, probably due to a bug. Pretty sure possessed mortals gain madness normally from powers that cause it.

The Watercrown
Feb 10, 2014

We Shall Become Gods

We Shall Become Gods

WE SHALL ALL DIE AND BECOME AS GODS

EclecticTastes posted:

Arclight is the best ghost with Possess, anyway, and fire causes fear in possessed mortals, probably due to a bug. Pretty sure possessed mortals gain madness normally from powers that cause it.

I meant gaining madness instead of fear, to keep them from fleeing, but still allowing your powers to be useful. I'll keep Arclight in mind, though, even if it is a bug.

paradoxGentleman posted:

I thought that those spooky circles centered on the ghosts using their powers were meant to communicate their range, but it's been a while since I played this game and I could be wrong.

Maybe it's just me, but I've found that the 'used a power' circles are a bit unreliable for judging range of effect on mortals. It's accurate when distributing damage to objects, but I've noticed it isn't when it comes to mortals *cough quake cough*, though it could just be that some of them aren't reacting, for whatever reason.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

The Watercrown posted:

I meant gaining madness instead of fear, to keep them from fleeing, but still allowing your powers to be useful. I'll keep Arclight in mind, though, even if it is a bug.


Maybe it's just me, but I've found that the 'used a power' circles are a bit unreliable for judging range of effect on mortals. It's accurate when distributing damage to objects, but I've noticed it isn't when it comes to mortals *cough quake cough*, though it could just be that some of them aren't reacting, for whatever reason.

Quake affects most of the map in terms of fear (and Tremor affects nearby areas), much like how weather powers will always affect the entire outdoors area when used outside, rather than being localized to the single fetter zone, and noise powers have a range based on their volume and any ongoing powers that might amplify them. Other than that, though, powers are generally localized to the room they're in (or just a vaguely-defined vicinity for outdoors power use).

The Watercrown
Feb 10, 2014

We Shall Become Gods

We Shall Become Gods

WE SHALL ALL DIE AND BECOME AS GODS

EclecticTastes posted:

Quake affects most of the map in terms of fear (and Tremor affects nearby areas), much like how weather powers will always affect the entire outdoors area when used outside, rather than being localized to the single fetter zone, and noise powers have a range based on their volume and any ongoing powers that might amplify them. Other than that, though, powers are generally localized to the room they're in (or just a vaguely-defined vicinity for outdoors power use).

Maybe it's just because I used it indoors, but whenever I've used Quake, the entire map recieves damage, but only mortals in the same room gain any fear. No one else seems to react until they step into the same room as the ghost, at which point they start cowering and gain the red terror rings, like they should've been doing when everything started exploding from the vibrations.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

The Watercrown posted:

Maybe it's just because I used it indoors, but whenever I've used Quake, the entire map recieves damage, but only mortals in the same room gain any fear. No one else seems to react until they step into the same room as the ghost, at which point they start cowering and gain the red terror rings, like they should've been doing when everything started exploding from the vibrations.

I actually think that's the case and I have it backwards in Quake's case. Haven't played in a while.

The Watercrown
Feb 10, 2014

We Shall Become Gods

We Shall Become Gods

WE SHALL ALL DIE AND BECOME AS GODS
I've done some testing, and Quake does not cause any fear outside of the 'room' that the ghost is fettered in. Please note that a 'room' means the segment of the map that gets highlighted when you bind an indoor/outdoor fettered ghost, which means Quake is basically useless at inspiring fear unless mortals step on mud, or spend a lot of time around potted plants.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

The Watercrown posted:

I've done some testing, and Quake does not cause any fear outside of the 'room' that the ghost is fettered in. Please note that a 'room' means the segment of the map that gets highlighted when you bind an indoor/outdoor fettered ghost, which means Quake is basically useless at inspiring fear unless mortals step on mud, or spend a lot of time around potted plants.

I can think of several specific fetters that are perfectly placed for Quake to work really well. That's the thing about Ghost Master, is that each level's fetters vary enough that there's always at least one map where a given ghost or power suddenly becomes useful. There's even a map where the Child fetter is viable!

If you're curious, it's the front desk area in the police station for Earth. The potted plant there is an excellent fetter for spreading fear during both police station missions.

Emissary666
Sep 6, 2010

EclecticTastes posted:

I can think of several specific fetters that are perfectly placed for Quake to work really well. That's the thing about Ghost Master, is that each level's fetters vary enough that there's always at least one map where a given ghost or power suddenly becomes useful. There's even a map where the Child fetter is viable!

If you're curious, it's the front desk area in the police station for Earth. The potted plant there is an excellent fetter for spreading fear during both police station missions.

If you are referring to the one I think you are, there is also an added bonus for binding an earth elemental to it

The Watercrown
Feb 10, 2014

We Shall Become Gods

We Shall Become Gods

WE SHALL ALL DIE AND BECOME AS GODS
I'd disagree with the effectiveness of the police station's bonsai plant (mortals begin to avoid it very quickly, and there are several other exists that they seem to prefer even when you don't use that area for scares), but it's undeniably the easiest, and probably earliest way to obtain Quake in the game.

And just so we always have more fodder for discussion, let's talk strategy when there's a risk of haunters being banished. I usually resort to benching a ghost as soon as the warning alarm sounds, but obviously this is quite annoying to do. Who's got a better tactic?

The Watercrown fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Dec 19, 2014

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

The Watercrown posted:

I'd disagree with the effectiveness of the police station's bonsai plant (mortals begin to avoid it very quickly, and there are several other exists that they seem to prefer even when you don't use that area for scares), but it's undeniably the easiest, and probably earliest way to obtain Quake in the game.

And just so we always have more fodder for discussion, let's talk strategy when there's a risk of haunters being banished. I usually resort to benching a ghost as soon as the warning alarm sounds, but obviously this is quite annoying to do. Who's got a better tactic?


Tag that poo poo, man.

I prep a ghost with their biggest scare, and drop them right on top of the guy, then bench them as soon as the power goes off and the fear increase registers (for immobilizing powers like Surge or Twister, I'll leave them around until the guy can move again). After the first couple, they start running in a panic. Once they're fleeing like that, they're no longer capable of banishing ghosts, so then I just pile on as much as I can until they're either wiped out, or one of their friends show up. Once you make them panic once, they'll immediately start panicking again the next time you hit them with a solid scare, so they're effectively disabled, even if you don't finish them right then.

The Watercrown
Feb 10, 2014

We Shall Become Gods

We Shall Become Gods

WE SHALL ALL DIE AND BECOME AS GODS

EclecticTastes posted:

Tag that poo poo, man.

If you insist. I understand spoilering vaguely referencing that you can unlock Bonsai early , though I'm not sure why you want the fact that ghosts can be banished spoilered when it's clearly marked as a -25,000 penalty in every results screen.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Chimera-gui
Mar 20, 2014
Because banishing ghosts doesn't become an issue until Poultrygeist where you're required to protect a ghost from being banished.

  • Locked thread