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flashy_mcflash posted:Why did Sandow succeed where Ryder failed? Why didn't Ryder get over in spite of his burial? maybe because he didn't constantly complain about it on the internet
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Oct 28, 2014 18:57
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flashy_mcflash posted:Why did Sandow succeed where Ryder failed? Why didn't Ryder get over in spite of his burial? They eventually took Ryder off TV entirely. At least Sandow had a year of being on TV (and losing) to let people remember he was alive.
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Oct 28, 2014 18:58
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flashy_mcflash posted:Why did Sandow succeed where Ryder failed? Why didn't Ryder get over in spite of his burial? Never had to feud with Kane and avoided becoming friends with John Cena.
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Oct 28, 2014 18:59
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Also I don't even know where to begin on how ridiculous the idea is that you can't devote time to guy A without taking away time from Guy B when they have *three hours to kill every Monday*.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:00
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flashy_mcflash posted:Why did Sandow succeed where Ryder failed? Why didn't Ryder get over in spite of his burial? After Sandow's burial he got a good gimmick and was then paired with a very charismatic individual who also has a good gimmick. Before that happened he was getting nothing. Ryder got kicked in the balls by Eve and removed from TV.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:00
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DeathChicken posted:Also I don't even know where to begin on how ridiculous the idea is that you can't devote time to guy A without taking away time from Guy B when they have *three hours to kill every Monday*. Damien Ambrose got 3 minutes this week. For a three hour show, even for a demoted guy that sounds like nothing.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:01
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DeathChicken posted:Also I don't even know where to begin on how ridiculous the idea is that you can't devote time to guy A without taking away time from Guy B when they have *three hours to kill every Monday*. It's not ridiculous when they have Guys C-Z coming up right behind him in NXT with more potential than he ever had.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:02
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flashy_mcflash posted:It's not ridiculous when they have Guys C-Z coming up right behind him in NXT with more potential than he ever had. Then explain why it's a good idea to use Zack Ryder's popularity to get John Cena over rather than to help one of those guys.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:03
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And out of their sterling NXT callups thus far, we have Emma, who had no buildup to her gimmick which actually requires effort from the writers to pull off, so she fell flat. Summer Rae, who is currently Designated Diva Jobber. Paige, who they started off winning the Women's title and yet somehow looking like an idiot at the same time. Your mileage may vary on how much better or worse her current crazy lesbian gimmick is.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:22
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Great White Hope posted:Then explain why it's a good idea to use Zack Ryder's popularity to get John Cena over rather than to help one of those guys. He was a guy that had a small amount of popularity for a short time that they inserted into a program that was always about Cena and Kane. The amount that people overblow the popularity of Zack Ryder is hilarious. Like he could give anyone a rub when he can barely sustain a pop of his own for two straight weeks. DeathChicken posted:And out of their sterling NXT callups thus far, we have Emma, who had no buildup to her gimmick which actually requires effort from the writers to pull off, so she fell flat. Summer Rae, who is currently Designated Diva Jobber. Paige, who they started off winning the Women's title and yet somehow looking like an idiot at the same time. Your mileage may vary on how much better or worse her current crazy lesbian gimmick is. Rusev, Harper, Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Wyatt, etc. don't exist and are certainly nowhere near the top of the card. flashy_mcflash fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Oct 28, 2014 |
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Oct 28, 2014 19:24
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flashy_mcflash posted:He was a guy that had a small amount of popularity for a short time that they inserted into a program that was always about Cena and Kane. The amount that people overblow the popularity of Zack Ryder is hilarious. Like he could give anyone a rub when he can barely sustain a pop of his own for two straight weeks. people chanted "we want ryder" for a while because it was the cool thing to do but every time he was actually out there they were dead silent
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Oct 28, 2014 19:27
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flashy_mcflash posted:He was a guy that had a small amount of popularity for a short time that they inserted into a program that was always about Cena and Kane. The amount that people overblow the popularity of Zack Ryder is hilarious. Like he could give anyone a rub when he can barely sustain a pop of his own for two straight weeks. I'm sorry, have you *really* not been paying attention to the last couple months of everyone pointing out just what they've done to the Wyatts? Rusev I'll give you, they've done really well there.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:28
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flashy_mcflash posted:Rusev, Harper, Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Wyatt, etc. don't exist and are certainly nowhere near the top of the card. Only one of those people are actually near the top of the card right now and that's Rollins. Rusev will be within a year, other than that...
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Oct 28, 2014 19:28
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flashy_mcflash posted:Rusev, Harper, Rollins, Ambrose, Reigns, Wyatt, etc. don't exist and are certainly nowhere near the top of the card. You couldn't even get to the second person before you had to name somebody not employed by the company when Ryder was buried. 
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Oct 28, 2014 19:30
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Great White Hope posted:You couldn't even get to the second person before you had to name somebody not employed by the company when Ryder was buried. he was specifically talking about nxt callups in that bit.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:31
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flashy_mcflash posted:Zack Ryder is a mediocre wrestler who works hard. He should probably be in a better spot than he is but I can't think of who I'd get rid of to make room for him. Before you say 'Kane' he absolutely will never fill the role Kane does as a monster. He's not as good or funny or clever as Sandow either, so where does Zack Ryder fit? With whom would you have him swap spots? There was a time when I thought Ryder would've been a perfect partner for Miz in a heel tag team based on being douchebags on reality shows. But since Miz went with the Johnny Cage gimmick he's surpassed the reality show persona. Really though, Ryder was at his best in the tag division and there's no reason they can't use him there, considering how thin the division is. Put him with R-Truth or someone else who isn't doing jack poo poo and they both might actually shine a little. This is really their problem with turning Mark Henry (or turning just him and not Show too). The tag division really could've used a Jaded Monster Old Guys team. Instead we get a Show/Henry feud again, when neither should be in a singles feud. I would not have minded them as tag champions at all, since they're both relatively big names and both former singles champs.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:33
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Cardboard Box posted:he was specifically talking about nxt callups in that bit. Well if we're being fair, he's also saying that midcarder Zack Ryder would be taking spots from guys who debuted in main event roles.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:35
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Cardboard Box posted:people chanted "we want ryder" for a while because it was the cool thing to do but every time he was actually out there they were dead silent Yeah, that's what I remember as well. People act like it was this sustained thing that was stopped dead but it was already starting to wane when they started the program with Cena. I don't disagree that Ryder might've done fine as a tag team with Santino or Fandango or something, but suggesting that BIG THINGS were ever going to happen with him is revisionist to the max. Great White Hope posted:Well if we're being fair, he's also saying that midcarder Zack Ryder would be taking spots from guys who debuted in main event roles. Would you be honestly happy if Zack Ryder was in Fandango's role? Why? flashy_mcflash fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Oct 28, 2014 |
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Oct 28, 2014 19:35
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DeathChicken posted:You must not have been around for the Hornswoggle/Chavo feud that went on and on and on and on and on. No. gently caress Hornswoggle. When Hornswoggle joined 3MB it was ten times more entertaining than anything Zack Ryder has done in his life and if you disagree you hate fun.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:41
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flashy_mcflash posted:Would you be honestly happy if Zack Ryder was in Fandango's role? Why? No, but that's because over the last three or so years (especially recently) WWE has beaten it into me that the midcard is a wasteland where there is no hope. Would I be happy with a theoretical world where the US Title still reasonably meant something like it did at the time, and Ryder was in the hunt for that? Sure.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:44
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Actually Bray's career trajectory has been fun to look back on. He debuts with the Kane story that...was abandoned a week later with no real explanation. I guess continuity is for nerds, even on a week to week basis. Then he gets a placeholder feud with Kofi of all people, then the Daniel Wyatt stuff which led to probably the only really big win of his career. This is followed by the Shield feud, also a really big win. He's set up to be an utter monster going into the Wrestlemania match with Cena, and...Cena crushes him. Then again. Then again. Then Cena wins that Money in the Bank match with Bray in it for funzies. Then he feuds with Jericho, loses to Jericho (and loving no one loses to Chris Jericho anymore). Bray gets his win back, but holy crap. And then Cena crushes him *again* in the infamous begging and crying match. He beats Jericho again in the wussiest fashion possible (falling out of the door in a cage match right before Jericho could do the same), and here we are now. Bray Wyatt.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:49
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DeathChicken posted:Actually Bray's career trajectory has been fun to look back on. He debuts with the Kane story that...was abandoned a week later with no real explanation. I guess continuity is for nerds, even on a week to week basis. Then he gets a placeholder feud with Kofi of all people, then the Daniel Wyatt stuff which led to probably the only really big win of his career. This is followed by the Shield feud, also a really big win. He's set up to be an utter monster going into the Wrestlemania match with Cena, and...Cena crushes him. Then again. Then again. Then Cena wins that Money in the Bank match with Bray in it for funzies. Then he feuds with Jericho, loses to Jericho (and loving no one loses to Chris Jericho anymore). Bray gets his win back, but holy crap. And then Cena crushes him *again* in the infamous begging and crying match. He beats Jericho again in the wussiest fashion possible (falling out of the door in a cage match right before Jericho could do the same), and here we are now. Bray Wyatt. Yet Bray still gets an arena full of people to hold up their phones for him in spite of all that. Weird how charisma works.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:50
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flashy_mcflash posted:Yet Bray still gets an arena full of people to hold up their phones for him in spite of all that. Weird how charisma works. And the Godfather got the entire crowd to chant along with his intro, doesn't mean they gave a poo poo about him when the bell rang.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:51
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Woah, woah, woah. I can accept having a friendly disagreement over one Zack Ryder (even if I think this is based on flashy mistaking my belief that Zack Ryder should be something like the gatekeeper between the midcard and upper-midcard for thinking he should be a top guy), but I will not accept anybody besmirching the good name of The Godfather, regardless of how right one may or may not be. Edit: Actually, a good comparison for how I would want Zack Ryder would be in TNA when Devon was TV Champion. He would come out and people would be happy, maybe cut a short promo, and then he'd have a completely fine match where he beat up a heel. It made the title look good, it made the crowd happy, and warmed them up for whatever fairly important thing would come next. Perfect midcard babyface champion. rare Magic card l00k fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Oct 28, 2014 |
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Oct 28, 2014 19:53
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ch3cooh posted:Pick the worst cosplayer "Hey aren't you Bray Wyatt?" "N-no." "Are you sure?" "Uh... y-yeah." "What's your name?" "Mike. Mike... Rotunda."
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Oct 28, 2014 20:42
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Great White Hope posted:Edit: Actually, a good comparison for how I would want Zack Ryder would be in TNA when Devon was TV Champion. He would come out and people would be happy, maybe cut a short promo, and then he'd have a completely fine match where he beat up a heel. It made the title look good, it made the crowd happy, and warmed them up for whatever fairly important thing would come next. Perfect midcard babyface champion. I think that's fair. I hear people talking about Ryder sometimes like he was destined for the main event or something and ::Vinceflex:: got busted down to nothing and assume everyone thinks this. A US title contender, I could accept. Personally I think that in the absence of a midcard they should just throw everyone into random teams and see what sticks long-term in the tag division, and Ryder could probably do fine there in a team with Ziggler or something. Hell even legitimately pairing him with Fandango and a valet might work. Lots of good teams were made by just chucking random guys together.
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Oct 28, 2014 20:53
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flashy_mcflash posted:I think that's fair. I hear people talking about Ryder sometimes like he was destined for the main event or something and ::Vinceflex:: got busted down to nothing and assume everyone thinks this. A US title contender, I could accept. Yeah it's not that we expected Ryder to be a legend, we just expected they would let him go out there and be a fun babyface for people to cheer for and enjoy rather than running his character down then kicking him off TV. The whole thing just seemed really vindictive.
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Oct 28, 2014 21:19
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Choosing to focus all your efforts on 3 characters to the detriment of like 50 is a stupid way to run an entertainment company, particularly when you've never had as much time to fill as you do now. But it's how Vince learned the business and it's how he ran it during its most successful period so that's what we get. I hope that it gets better once HHH takes over but I'm not holding my breath, there's just too much institutional knowledge around running a billion dollar company like a traveling carny sideshow for things to really change.
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Oct 28, 2014 21:42
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quote:HIAC is a transitional PPV and always has been. There we have it, the dumbest sentence. Edit: Oh wait the PPV? Yeah that's transitional. The match on the other hand is supposed to be a feud ender.
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Oct 29, 2014 12:21
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Anywhere outside of that PPV, yes. I had to laugh when they did it for Taker/HHH at Wrestlemania a couple years back. Way to prove your annual "welp let's put them in a cell because it's October" PPV means absolute dick.
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Oct 29, 2014 21:24
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You aren't getting more heat than six months into the feud Hell in a Cell match. What match would be the blow off if not this one? The Kennel From Hell?
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Oct 29, 2014 23:11
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I wish people would stop thinking of Hell in a Cell as a match that ends feuds. It might have been true in the 80s but that hasn't been the case for going on 20 years now. It's especially untrue of the HiaC pay-per-view, which is always about as lackluster and pointless an event as WWE produces.
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Oct 29, 2014 23:59
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It was actually the case until HiaC became a pay-per-view. 5 years ago. It also was a match that didn't exist until 1997.
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Oct 30, 2014 00:00
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Jackie D posted:It was actually the case until HiaC became a pay-per-view. 5 years ago. It also was a match that didn't exist until 1997. I'm talking about cage matches in general here, but point taken.
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Oct 30, 2014 00:01
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You honestly don't think the majority of the Hell in a Cell matches from 1997 to 2009 weren't for feud blowoffs?
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Oct 30, 2014 00:03
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I'm just remembering a lot of gently caress finishes with Kane but I'll admit those probably weigh more heavily on my mind. My main point is that Hell in the Cell has gradually morphed from "the match you use to end feuds" to just another gimmick match, albeit one where they still unjustifiably try to play up its brutality. That's not new and it's obviously how WWE sees it so wining every time we get a cell match that doesn't end a feud is just willfully denying reality. Also I reject the idea that you need a kind of escalating hierarchy of gimmick matches to properly end a feud, and don't agree that the Rollins/Ambrose feud is ruined because there's nowhere to go from here. You can have a barnburner of a blowoff match if the people involved are good enough and the feud is hot enough; they are and it is. You only really need the trappings of a "brutal" gimmick match like HiaC if you're covering for the failings of the storyline and the people involved, which, incidentally, is one reason why we've had so many boring gimmick matches recently. The Cena/Wyatt cage match sucked not because the feud went on afterward but because the match itself sucked and the feud was terrible.
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Oct 30, 2014 00:18
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Gonzo McFee posted:You aren't getting more heat than six months into the feud Hell in a Cell match. I've been saying this for a while, but TLC. Hands down for me. They can't do all the cell stuff they used to be able to do anymore, aside from the occasional falling spot - even this match was mostly a means of keeping Rollins in while Ambrose brought his own weapons. TLC has a wider range and it also has the distinction of being The Shield's debut match.
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Oct 30, 2014 05:44
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DeathChicken posted:And out of their sterling NXT callups thus far, we have Emma, who had no buildup to her gimmick which actually requires effort from the writers to pull off, so she fell flat. Summer Rae, who is currently Designated Diva Jobber. Paige, who they started off winning the Women's title and yet somehow looking like an idiot at the same time. Your mileage may vary on how much better or worse her current crazy lesbian gimmick is. Don't forget the 'and continuing to look like an idiot in every title match by losing to the same drat thing from AJ everyt time' bit.
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Oct 31, 2014 18:01
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