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That way they'd get all the taxes from bishops in their territory.
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Apr 26, 2016 01:32
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People love to talk poo poo about the Catholic Church and how they're just a bunch of ossified old dudes only interested in their own power struggles. But all that politics stuff just goes to prove one thing: Popin' ain't easy.
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Apr 26, 2016 01:48
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Imagine having to take up all the burden of being Pope, with none of the swag. 
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Apr 26, 2016 02:05
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QuoProQuid posted:i am p sure that dorothy day would bring the papacy into the csa sphere through sheer force of will paragon1 posted:Obviously the syndies would just do the logical thing and put forward their own anti-Pope, who they would have installed as the Actual Pope For Reals after kicking booj-Pope out of Rome. Clearly the answer is to install Dorothy Day as the new Pope Mary I.  But seriously I have no idea how she'd feel about that idea since apparently people oppose her being considered for sainthood because it goes against her beliefs.
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Apr 26, 2016 02:29
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paragon1 posted:Obviously the syndies would just do the logical thing and put forward their own anti-Pope, who they would have installed as the Actual Pope For Reals after kicking booj-Pope out of Rome. And by "put forward" you of course might mean "fairly elected by a full vote of the International Brotherhood of Catholic Priests, Monks, and Nuns".
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Apr 26, 2016 03:29
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The Sisters of Mercy (Local 423)
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Apr 26, 2016 04:05
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TheMcD posted:The Soviets also get to implement state atheism, complete with atheist museums, IIRC. And Ireland, if left unmolested by UoB, gets to make a decision about how religious the state should be, with a couple of consequences stemming from it IIRC.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:34
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Hah, so your utopia still has outdated religions in it? How bizarre. Indeed. quote:As a Catholic priest in the Southwestern United States Hagerty came into frequent contact with Mexican railroad workers, the mistreatment of whom by their employers angered him. Finding little socialist propaganda to be available in Spanish, Hagerty began translating a number of short works from German, French, and English. Hagerty was warned by the railroads to stay out of labor relations, he told a messenger "Tell the people who sent you here that I have a brace of Colts and can hit a dime at twenty paces."
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Apr 26, 2016 07:57
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Did Foster end up getting mentioned in all of this? He's an option both times you pick a leader for the CSA, so it's odd that he wouldn't be around at all (granted, the Totalists were locked out of power by an opposing coalition, but he's at least an existing factor).
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May 14, 2016 06:27
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I haven't had any idea where he would be mentioned thus far except that there were some Totalists harassing reporters in New York and Gitlow had to tell Foster to rein his people in. I'd imagine he's a delegate and certainly active but on the outside looking in.
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May 14, 2016 08:25
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just got outta syndie church
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May 26, 2016 15:39
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did this timeline get a red harvest analogue
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Jun 7, 2016 00:19
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dashiell hammett owns
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Jun 7, 2016 00:19
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Chief Savage Man posted:I haven't had any idea where he would be mentioned thus far except that there were some Totalists harassing reporters in New York and Gitlow had to tell Foster to rein his people in. I'm not quite sure I'm right, but I sort of imagine his role as something close to maybe how the Ron Paul wing of the GOP would be if like Romney had won the presidency- definitely part of the governing party, but without any real say in meaningful policy debates.
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Jun 7, 2016 07:10
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Chapter Nineteen: Three Weeks in August (The Sinai Peninsula: August 1 – 21, 1943) L’Humanite du Monde – English Edition – February 2, 1973 An Unlikely Historian on a Mission to Collect Artifacts from the Twilight of the Ottoman Empire Mazhar Asif Gaber, Staff Writer, Cairo Bureau Joseph Marchesi, by this time next year, will have lived in Egypt for a longer period of time than he lived in the United States, the country of his birth. Mr Marchesi, who prefers to be called Joe, is the youngest of three brothers. His older two brothers were both killed in action, one in Baltimore and the other in Italy. His mother died shortly thereafter, “of heartbreak” according to Joe, leaving no family for Joe to return home to. He first came to Egypt as a soldier in the Revolutionary Marines, and permanently relocated after the war. He then married the daughter of a prominent labor activist in Port Said.  Joe and his wife, Fatima, lived in Port Said for ten years, until Fatima was killed in an automobile accident. “She was the popular one, and all of her friends stopped coming around after she died. There was nothing left for me there after she died, so I started to look for opportunities to move out of the city.” The fishing syndicate in Abu Zenima, a small coastal town to the southeast of Port Said, had an opening for a boat mechanic. Joe took the position, despite having only ever driven through the town.  Joe’s new job had him sailing familiar waters. He had, twelve years prior, sailed these waters as part of the Sinai invasion force that seized the peninsula and dealt the fatal blow to the centuries-old Ottoman Empire. “When I first moved here, the Ottoman occupation had only been gone for a few years. The people who had lived in the zone appreciated what we had done.” The Ottoman Empire is deservedly regarded as one of the weaker member states of the Prague Pact. German support had propped up the Sultan for decades by the time the war broke out, and by August of 1943, it was increasingly forced to stand on its own two feet. The sizable Ottoman Army was not well regarded by either the Internationale or the German High Command, but German war planners desperate to match the manpower reserves of North America sought out to bring them into the fold regardless.  The Ottoman Army’s combat experience in the years between the wars consisted of putting down domestic revolts such as the Kurdish Uprising of 1938. They were not equipped to do battle against American troops who had been involved in almost constant warfare since 1936.  When Joe landed on the beaches of the Sinai peninsula in August of 1943, he remembers that the Ottoman defenders seemed to not even know how to respond. “We had picked a horrible time to land. It was storming badly and we were having all kinds of trouble getting ashore, but they just seemed to miss every opportunity they were handed. They had no artillery, no machine gun emplacements, not anything.”  In the defense of the Ottoman Army, or at least those specific defenders, they were being outclassed on multiple fronts. American bombers operated unmolested over the peninsula. The Ottomans had barely any anti-aircraft weaponry.  “With all of that, we didn’t even have the easiest time! The First Marines were practically invited ashore!”  Joe is only moderately exaggerating. The barely contested landings contrast with the vicious battles of other fronts that feature heavily in cinema and literature, part of why Joe believes the theater does not get the attention he thinks it deserves.  “If you asked me to imagine one of those action movies based off my experience in the Sinai, I don’t think I could do it. Sure there was combat, but there was never any doubt that we were going to crush the enemy. But just because it wasn’t as intense as France or Spokane doesn’t mean it wasn’t important.”  An encounter with a teenage boy three years ago caused Joe to realize that the youth of Egypt were not being taught much of anything about the course of the war. Fatima had been a teacher, and so Joe found an opportunity to both honor his late wife and put his war experience to good use. “I made some calls, and found that the antiquities people had nobody assigned to researching the war. All about ancient Egypt, which is fine of course, but still I think there’s something of value to learn from the war.”  The Battle of the Suez was one of the largest single engagements outside Europe during the war, and Joe has taken it upon himself to preserve its history as the Director of the Sinai World War Museum, an as of yet nonexistent museum that Joe hopes he can find a home for in Suez or Port Said. With almost a million people having been involved in the operation on both sides, Joe has already gotten a good response from Canadians, Quebecois and American veterans.  Joe is keeping the donated items in an old warehouse in Abu Zenima until he can secure a site to permanently display them. Until then, he is happy to show off some artifacts anybody who shows up at the warehouse. He has one assistant, a graduate student from Canada, who is spending a semester with him. “First thing he learned was how to waterproof a ceiling. Gotta protect this stuff!” One of the first things that caught my eye was a nearly intact ship’s wheel, missing only a few spokes. “I got this from a kid up in Gaza. His dad pulled it off the beach and said it belonged to a Turkish supply ship that got blown to pieces in the Mediterranean. I sent photos of it to a naval historian in Istanbul to see if I could confirm that but I haven’t heard back yet. You know the Ottomans tried to relieve their canal garrison by sea after we cut them off on land, right?” I did not.  It was one of many things I learned from Joe. Next to the ship’s wheel was a desk covered with plaques and a map. The plaques described, in Arabic, English and French, facts about Ottoman fortifications, the positions of which were laid out on the map. “I just need permission from the antiquities people to place those plaques at those sites. They’re not getting back to me either.”  Joe has grown accustomed to being ignored in his newfound quest. One objective of particular difficulty has been to find records and artifacts about the sizable number of Ottoman casualties and POWs from the battle. There is, after all, lingering controversy about how the Ottoman dead were interred. “I remember hearing that many were burned or left out in the desert. The enemy collapsed so quickly that we barely knew what to do with them. I don’t think some of the powers that be want that to be known. Something about the Brotherhood.” That something is the fact that cremation and non-burial are considered a sacrilege in the eyes of the Muslim faith. In this climate of competition between Islamism and socialism, anything that would make the Internationale appear to have disrespected Islam is a touchy subject. It is unsurprising that Joe is getting nowhere with either Turkish or American sources.  Joe’s favorite part of the collection is the photographs. He has thousands of photographs, donated from people all over the world who respond to his appeals through veterans’ groups and newspaper notices. “My favorite photo?”  “It’s this one.” He carefully pulls it from a file cabinet and shows it to me. The photo is of Harry Haywood accepting the surrender of the Ottoman armies in the Suez, only three weeks after Joe landed on the beaches of the Sinai.  The Ottoman commanders are clearly and obviously demoralized in the photo. They had been thoroughly beaten, finally struck down by the malaise that had infected the empire for decades. The photo is captioned: “l’empire ottoman – 1453-1943”  The start date is off by over 150 years, marking the Ottoman capture of Constantinople rather than the true birth of the empire, but the point is true. The Battle of the Suez was the punctuation mark on almost two centuries of decline, the final death of Ottoman power. Only one small corner of the Empire had actually been conquered, sure, but any glimmer of hope the Ottomans had of keeping the Internationale back died with a hundred thousand of its men along the canal.  “I’m just trying to convince the right people that this is important. You know, the Ottomans were once Egypt’s nemesis? So I don’t understand why they wouldn’t want to commemorate something that contributed to their demise.” I have an idea why. Joe’s unit, the Revolutionary Marines, wasn’t involved when the American Red Army put an end to the pre-socialist Egyptian state, a tactically expedient decision with repercussions that play out across the front page of this newspaper seemingly every day. History and politics will always be tied up in one another, and so the odds will likely remain stacked against Joe in his newest battle. Not that he’s going to let that discourage him. “As long as somebody is keeping the history alive. That’s the most important thing.”
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Jun 29, 2016 06:54
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I think the last image is a duplicate of the second one?
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Jun 29, 2016 12:06
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GunnerJ posted:I think the last image is a duplicate of the second one? Look at the number of infantry divisions, first says 66 and the second says 37. The Battle of the Sinai was a slaughter, goddamn.
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Jun 29, 2016 16:25
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In World War I, amphibious assaults against the Ottoman Empire led to one of the greatest military disasters in the war. In World War II, half of the Ottoman land forces are destroyed by amphibious maneuvers in less than a month.
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Jun 30, 2016 03:29
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Just goes to show you don't send a Limey to do a 'murrican's job!  I cannot wait to see what we're going to have to do to Southwest Asia once the Ottomans are finished. 
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Jun 30, 2016 03:49
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It's always a magical experience to be able to just gently caress a technologically inferior nation over through amphibious assaults. They're such a pain in the loving rear end when going up against a relatively equal foe that it just feels so good to just have everything work for once.
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Jun 30, 2016 11:36
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Coffeehitler posted:Look at the number of infantry divisions, first says 66 and the second says 37. The Battle of the Sinai was a slaughter, goddamn. Oh poo poo, didn't see that. I thought maybe it was supposed to be a shot for the new Socialist Republic of Turkey or whatever.
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Jun 30, 2016 14:59
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Oh to be a fly on the wall of the sultan's chambers when he got the news.
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Jul 1, 2016 04:45
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paragon1 posted:Oh to be a fly on the wall of the sultan's chambers when he got the news. "Ataturk! Give me back my divisions!"
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Jul 1, 2016 12:38
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He'd still be Kemal Pasha, Ataturk was a title he earned for creating the Republic.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:04
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With this kind of a gutting of the Ottoman army, we're going to be in Ankara by Christmas. Wonder how the division of the Middle East is going to go! One big Arabic Republic, or something else?
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Jul 5, 2016 18:11
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Chapter Twenty: The Great Arsenal of Socialism (Western Europe: April – October 1943) Propaganda film produced by Los Angeles Bureau of Filmmakers. Released to public September 24, 1943.  This is Leonard. He sure looks down, don’t he? Say, Leonard, what’s the matter? A down on his luck man standing in front of a massive billboard exhorting Americans to enlist turns to face the camera. “They just told me I couldn’t fight because of my bad eyes. It’s back to the shoe factory for me…” What’s wrong with working at the shoe factory, Leonard? “I want to be over there. Fighting for what’s important!” Oh, but don’t you see, Leonard, you can fight for what’s important at home too. “I can?” Sure can. Leonard, meet Gerald.  Gerald is a soldier in the Red Army, looking through binoculars towards some mountains. Gerald, how do you like your new boots? “Oh, they’re the best. They sure do help us climbing up all these hills.” Do you recognize those boots, Leonard? “Why I sure do, we make those at our plant!” And that, Leonard, is how you are in the fight. And what do you say, Jess?  Jess is a welder working in a shipyard. She speaks with a thick Scottish accent. “We use these welders to fix up our ships. We just got them in from Mississippi. Thank you, comrades!” And how about you, Jacques?  Jacques is fueling up a fighter plane. “Texas oil keeps all our planes flying. Merci, camarades!” Giuseppe?  Giuseppe is working on a train. “West Virginia coal keeps our trains moving. Grazie, compagni! You’re welcome, comrade! And how about you, Harriett?  Harriett is tending to the wounded in a hospital. “Bandages made in Tennessee helped me save three lives today! Thanks, comrades!”  See, Leonard? Workers like you are keeping the free world fighting each and every day. Without American industry, why, we wouldn’t stand a chance. “Yes, you’re right! I’ve gotta head back to the plant. People are counting on me!” Leonard picks up his lunch box and confidently walks up the hill towards the plant. The seal of the IWW is superimposed over top of the factory as an instrumental version of the Internationale ends the film. ------------------------------------------------ Excerpt from An Easy History of: The American Red Navy, part of the Easy History series by Dexter Knowles. Published 2008. The Dawn of the Carrier Era  The short period of submarine dominance in Red Navy thinking came to an end when the first post-revolution carriers were launched. Submarines had been originally intended as a complement to the main battleship fleet of the Navy. It was only due to the losses of the previous few years that the submarine corps was forced into the limelight as the diminished surface fleet was relegated to amphibious support operations.  Post-revolutionary naval planners were divided on the direction to take with new naval construction. The British and Japanese carrier fleets provided one example and the German battleship fleet provided another, the latter with a proven track record but the former promising increased range and power projection capability. Ultimately, the British example proved to be too convincing, especially with the blossoming Anglo-American alliance allowing for a great deal of technological exchange. Plans were made for thirty carriers that would span an Atlantic and a Pacific Fleet. Fifteen of these carriers were operational by the summer of 1943 and made up the core of the European Task Force that was sent to Dover, England from Norfolk, Virginia.  The American carriers were welcomed warmly by the British, who were saddled with the lion’s share of responsibility when it came to battling the German fleet. The depleted American Red Navy had grown into a world class force with the addition of the carriers. The British had dealt serious blows to the German Navy in the opening months of the war, particularly during the Battle of Heligoland and the Battle of Malta.  By the summer of 1943, the Germans had reverted to a fleet-in-being posture due to their losses. (Remember: a fleet-in-being aims to affect the enemy by staying in port, thus forcing the enemy to deploy forces to guard against them.) Commerce raiding missions continued, however, and the long range of the American carriers’ planes allowed them to hunt down and dispatch German ships with relative ease.  The carrier fleet had arrived too late to face any real test of its battle readiness but it was nonetheless very effective in expanding the ‘safe zone’ beyond the English Channel and allowing for Internationale trade with the Netherlands to go on unhindered.  German industry would already be hard pressed to match the shipbuilding capabilities of both the Combined Syndicates and the Union of Britain, and so the sinking of six German ships in the first few weeks of the American naval mission to the North Sea was a serious blow to the Prague Pact’s morale.   American naval power also meant that there were more ships available to establish an Internationale blockade of Germany. With the Mediterranean closed off, a North Sea blockade would prove to be disastrous for the Germans. In the later stages of the war, the Germans faced dire shortages of important materials as their colonies were either conquered or isolated.  The Internationale could have maintained the blockade and waited for French forces to forcibly evict the High Seas Fleet from its ports, but Red Navy brass were eager to test out the capabilities of their new carriers. And so the Raid on Wilhelmshaven was conceived.  The Raid was not any kind of turning point in the European war. The German fleet had already been more or less contained through British effort. However, it would prove to be important because of what it would eventually inspire.  American planes successfully managed anti air defenses and German fighters and heavily damaged the port facilities at Wilhelmshaven, as well as sinking a number of German vessels. The Red Navy used the Raid as a case study that would form the basis of its new carrier-based doctrine. That in turn would lead to the far more well known carrier raids of later years. ------------------------------------------------ “I don’t understand it. Why in the hell wouldn’t they send ground forces now?”  “When the Germans looked like they were gonna barrel right on to Marseille, they were about to, but now the situation is ‘under control’ and they’re ‘evaluating.’”  “What’s to evaluate?! We got them on the back foot! When the iron’s hot, don’t let it cool. Strike it! BEAT THE EVER LOVING poo poo OUT OF IT!” *a short silence where only some heavy breathing can be heard* “If you give yourself a heart attack, I’m going to have to do all this work on my own and I will not be happy. Get a hold of yourself for Christ’s sake.”  “I know, I know, it’s just… The goddamn Italians are sending troops to the French lines and they’re trying to piece together their country at the same time. What is holding back the British? Are the Irish that frightening? Is the memory of Viking raids that loving terrifying still? Will the goddamn King sail from Australia to Portsmouth while nobody’s paying attention? I don’t understand their reluctance. We can put the Germans away and the sooner the better.”  “Well if the recent trend continues, there will be less and less urgency to convince them with. Now that the fight is on German soil, it seems more like a matter of time.” “There’s still a lot of fight left in that dog.” “Well I know that, but they don’t seem to. And with all the rationing and shortages in France, the CSP needs to promise the situation will be over with soon before people get antsy.”  “We even sent over the carriers like they wanted and they’re still playing with themselves. I don’t understand it.” “Are you even listening to me?” “What?” *a sigh is heard* “Listen, it’s going to be fine in the end. Our offensive in Austria drew forces away and now they’re finding the holes. Their armor will bust through in no time and we’ll be done with this. The lack of British ground forces probably just reduces our chances at reaching Berlin by the end of the year.”  “Why Makhno made that guarantee is beyond me… just idiotic. But more importantly, I just get this sense that the Internationale is splintering as we’re approaching our greatest triumph. The French get angrier and angrier each day. They’ve been giving the Germans a good hiding all summer, sure, but at such a cost… Honestly, man, how do you see this playing out?” “Well the humanist in me weeps for those lives that will be lost for no good reason.” “I take it there’s some other aspect of you that has a different stance.”  “The cynic.” “And what does he say?” “How much longer do we need to keep pretending that America isn’t carrying this entire alliance on her back? If France is too depleted and Britain is too unwilling, then soon enough it will be our time to captain the ship. And that’s both a responsibility and an opportunity.” *A long silence* “We’ll have to see about all that. Let’s just win this drat war first.”
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Jul 15, 2016 05:54
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Time to invade from the southeast I guess?
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Jul 15, 2016 06:41
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TheMcD posted:It's always a magical experience to be able to just gently caress a technologically inferior nation over through amphibious assaults. They're such a pain in the loving rear end when going up against a relatively equal foe that it just feels so good to just have everything work for once. I like to imagine that the Ottomans are not only stuck with old technology but old ideas and so they're not even expecting any amphibious attack to work, just because Gallipoli failed. They're the epitome of fighting the last war they won in my mind. paragon1 posted:Time to invade from the southeast I guess? When I was playing this stage of the war in game, I thought about the guy from Saving Private Ryan who has the three jars of sand from Africa, Italy and Normandy. A Marine in this time line who has been with the unit since the start would have jars for Costa Rica, Cuba, California, Algeria, and now the Suez. By the end of this LP, I've gotten so landing happy that that guy may very well end up with 12 jars. Gotta leverage that mastery of the sea.
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Jul 17, 2016 14:52
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This latest development makes enough sense. I mean, this version of America is going to end up with a sphere of influence somehow even larger than the one in the OTL at this time.
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Jul 17, 2016 14:56
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:This latest development makes enough sense. I mean, this version of America is going to end up with a sphere of influence somehow even larger than the one in the OTL at this time. much less dominant, though france is going to have a similar position to what the soviets had in reality, and the americans won't be able to revise away a continuing ally like they did the soviets during the cold war
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Jul 17, 2016 18:56
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I did load up as France to fix an odd bug at about that time and they've certainly suffered an enormous amount of casualties and it's not just narrative embellishment that their position may have collapsed if the stalemate continued much longer. Between the Great War, a Revolution and now bearing the brunt of Germany's army, they have to have lost a phenomenal amount of people and I wonder if it'd reflect against their actual post war population and how they'd measure up against a North America that has also suffered more war than in OTL but less than TTL France. Probably less than the effect it's had on poor Flanders though.
csm141 fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 20:43
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how did you get thirty carriers
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Jul 17, 2016 21:02
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IRL France didn't grow back to its pre-WWI population until the 1950s. I'm thinking they'll have a demographic crash like Spain.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:05
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Gamerofthegame posted:how did you get thirty carriers I've got fifteen right now actually and another run is currently underway. They've been building since we invaded Canada I think. There's also thirty heavy cruisers being constructed. Naval construction takes a long time in Darkest Hour.
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Jul 17, 2016 21:25
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Yeah ships take a long-rear end time to build, but on the flipside they tend to have very low actual IC costs so a country like the USA/CSA can run absolutely massive parallel production lines.
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Jul 18, 2016 18:09
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Yeah, it's not like it's the only thing being produced, motorized infantry, planes and tons of upgrades (hello central planning), it's just that it consistently fell behind other considerations. After Canada fell and the failure to seize Hawaii it became clear I was falling behind. When you're dealing with overseas fighting and the carriers are still years away it causes anxiety even if you're still able to meet most of the other industrial needs.
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Jul 18, 2016 18:22
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So when will you sweep the Aussie/ French navies from the seas?
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Jul 18, 2016 18:46
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paragon1 posted:So when will you sweep the Aussie/ French navies from the seas? All in due time. Actually, with regards to them, I've been having submarines raiding the waters around Australia since they were built and they originally encountered a lot of Entente ships but they haven't been around . I did it to potentially catch transports of Australian infantry going to help defend Delhi and while I'm not sure what if any oil resources Australia has access to, I do wonder if they don't have the oil to run what is one of the largest fleets in the game, even if it's mostly obsolete.
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Jul 19, 2016 02:10
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The appalling loses that France has suffered again this time around makes me wonder if they would start pushing for something like the Morgenthau Plan for a post-war Germany.
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Jul 19, 2016 02:29
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Can't wait for France to announce their new Three or more Child Policy.
ThaumPenguin fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 14:23
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