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the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
The TV show is the Culture guys, come on. The Star Trek stories that we love exist as the novels of a slightly odd ball Scottish author, respected, but politically conservative.

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the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Man, I have the gayest of Boners for Miéville and that pitch is fantastic. Every time I was dragged to an Iron Man movie I was sorta stunned you were supposed to side with the arms-dealing drunkard and not the villains, who were more often than not totally in the right.

I mean, he gets shot with his own equipment and realizes he needs to mend his ways within the first few scenes, and that drives him to fight his first villain, Evil McDoubleDown ArmsDealer. And the next two movies also feature ebil corporate arms dealers, one, again, as the main villain and one as a secondary villain.

I mean, he still lives the high life, but we're not rooting for the arms-dealing drunkard, we're rooting for the recovering alcoholic attempting to atone for his arms dealing past.*

*Admittedly, with explosions, but it's an action movie.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Hah, I missed the first movie actually, where I'm told he's humanized a lot and the other two are coloured by the fact that to me, Iron Man will always pretty much be "80's Capitalism is great, viva Neoliberalism" the super'hero'.

I haven't seen the movies in years, but from what I remember the second one was the corporate sleazebag getting the burd russian to help him. Burd Russians dad had worked with Starks dad to develop the tech that Stark jr uses but because he wanted to weaponize it and sell it, Stark dad sells him out to the Soviet who send him to the gulag and he then dies in poverty and pain. I would characterize this as "a huge loving dick move". He also steals all the credit, which is a further dick move.

Stark jr then proceeds to use the exact same tech to make his weapon, that he doesn't want "the darn gubmint" to have because uhh, gubmint is always incompetent and bad. Except instead of being punished he gets to enjoy the wads of cash he inherited from his dad and continue to be a worthless parasite on mankind.

I saw the movie as the story of a man seeking just revenge for the sins of the father, in the son, whos fortune was not only built on the stolen effort of the two but actually did what Stark sr condemned russia dad to the gulag for: Weaponized the tech. He then cleverly uses the resources of a man no different from Stark to try and accomplish his goals. But in he's so focused on revenge he goes too far, but on the other hand I've seen movies like that; it adds to the drama where you're so out for revenge you start doing evil.

Money can't pay for his lost childhood, his lost father, the lost credit for the world-changing invention. Stark is living a lie and he deserves to die for it. Or something, I´m being intentionally over-dramatic.

I barely remember the third movie except for that all the poo poo that the Mandarin said was true from what I remember and the movie started with the song "I'M BLUE" because I've been getting more and more sick of being dragged to every Marvel movie and have therefore prepared better and better with vodka. I still thought of him as a villain after 2. I guess it was another one of those "oh i guess america is bad but lets make the villain say it so we can disregard it" thing.

Also if he's seeking redemption, what the gently caress has he been doing? I don't see how helping a kid have a nice christmas or not being a poo poo-heel is anything that near makes up for being a drunken corporate overlord. Just being rich is already bad, being so via inherited wealth and then furthermore spending lots of it on conspicuous consumption bullshit just furthers my contempt for him.

And to be honest, if they hadn't made the perfect choice in Robert Downey Jr I think people would be a lot less accepting of him. He's drat good in that role.

Anyway, this was DP talks about that movie he once saw and it really annoyed him also he saw the 3rd movie in that trilogy and he dislikes the character in a few hundred words.

I love how America has this 'gubmint bad' right wing when it's, as our syndy brethren show us, really a pretty lefty position. Saying 'no gently caress you, I the laborer* get to use this, not you fascist pigs, I shall use this for the good of humanity in a way that transcends national borders' is pretty left. I mean, his alter ego the CEO is not what you'd call proletarian, but the man in the suit even has that Iron/Industrial vibe. Ala, you know, Stalin.

And IM III's villain I thought could really be seen as an almost too on the nose way. The evil vaguely Middle Eastern terrorist is really this British fellow playing at evil (e.g., much of the fuckery in the ME being a result of British imperialism- you could even go into Ben Kingsley as a person/the roles he's played before if you really want to dive deep on that...) but behind the suicide bombing curtain is... *gasp* an ostensibly altruistic but too slick American corporate dude! IM III overcomes this not by relying on his fancy tech but by overcoming his own paralyzing fear in the wake of 'New York' but by... well, shooting people. And letting powerful women into the workforce? Something something he destroys his drone army in the end.

It's a mess, sure, but it hangs to better than 'grump capitalist class grump the real villain grump'

*And he is the laborer. In a cave. With a box of scraps.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Jaramin posted:

Yeah, that's a fairly stupid metric to judge a state by. Cultures aren't remembered for the sheer number of people they ruled, but rather than the cultural and sociological novelties they left behind that persisted to the nations that followed them. Roman poo poo pervades western society so fully they you can't spit without running into one of their legal principles, descendant languages, alphabet, calender, etc. I'd argued their sole equal in that respect is Han China who essentially left behind a long-lasting legacy in the East like Rome did in the West.

Even then, Han Chinese legal/lingo/alpha/cala is a much bigger deal for as many if not more people, and on top of that you've got the Sanskrit thing going on.

(Also stop using 'the East' and 'the West' it's giving me hives.)

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

A White Guy posted:

The problem, I feel, is that most Posters on SA are Westerners and don't really care about Chinese impact on East Asia/India. If you're gonna compare sheer geographical size and population, China throughout its various iterations wins almost every time, but if you're gonna compare cultural impact, I'd say that its a toss-up between the Chinese, the Romans, and the Mongols.

The impact of the Chinese is so pervasive that Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia, still have writing systems largely based on Chinese Caligraphy, and the fact that many places in Southeast Asia and Indonesia are home to generations of Overseas Chinese who's progenitors arrived there thousands of years ago. The impact of the Chinese culture is incredibly pervasive in Southeast Asia, and the only reason it isn't stronger in more parts of the world is the fact that there's a big fukken desert on the Western side of China and big fukken mountain range on the Southwestern Side.


^^this sums up Romans influence quite well. Western cultures, and even to sum extent, Middle Eastern cultures draw upon Roman influence dramatically.

And finally, the Mongols wrecked everybodies poo poo. They absolutely decimated the Middle East,China, India, Southeast Asia, Europe (Russia and Hungary in particular), and pretty much anywhere their horses could set foot. Most places where the Mongols showed up either barely recovered or never did. The Mongol sack of Baghdad in the 12th century was so devastating that the city remained uninhabited for almost a century post-sack, and it never recovered to its former glory.

I think that leaves out India rather unfairly, given the size of India itself as well as the general influence of Buddhism to points eastward and other branches of mystical ascetisism to points west.

You'd also get a lot of mileage out of combining the Mongols with the general Hunno-Turkic-Mongol thing, from the Ottomans to the Tang there's been a lot of dynasties coming out of that general area.

Dibujante posted:

It's really hard to say. To make him the inheritor of Rome's legacy, he would have to adopt Rome's institutions to some extent. Did he? Or is successors? At that point, Rome was an ecclesiastically-endorsed semi-dynastic dictatorship, but not monarchy. Mehmed II most definitely intended to rule as a monarch, and the structure of the Ottoman Empire seems like it was strictly monarchical. That said, some of its power struggles seem fairly Roman (there's nothing the Romans excelled at more than power struggles), although rather than assassinating and overthrowing their leaders, the Ottomans would generally assassinate one and trot out someone else from the dynasty.

Of course, this distinction may simply have been a result of the fact that the Ottoman sultans often had lots of heirs and the Romans often had very few. Maybe there wasn't really an institutional difference.

I mean, the Ottomans sure as hell weren't running a Turkish tribal structure... I'd say the Ottomans were more using and iterating the model they found in Anatolia before they got to Constantinople and went all Kaizar, but that model was one very heavily influenced by the Persian and Byzantine structures that the early post-Muhammad Arab empires fell into. I think all the 'blah' about what broad 'cultures' or 'civilizations' had more influence is kind of silly, and overgeneralizing, where history should really be specific. That said, they are interesting as a thought exercise, and I think there's a model of the world that lumps the West, Arabia, and Iran into one big monotheist Irano-Hellenic-Romantic mode.


E: Also also, Polynesian, Bantu, various pre-epidemic American groups, etc. etc. The world is far bigger than Eurasia.

the JJ fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Apr 2, 2015

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

blood simple posted:

farmers have never been workers greatly affected by industrialization and the structure of the worldwide economy

the agricultural workers industrial union never did exist

...

:whip:

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
So how are supply line drawn in these games? Like obviously forming a pocket is nice but sometimes in grog games certain places will be 'sources' in which supplies magically appear so can never be starved out. Yet cutting them off can lead to the whole rest of a country becoming one big 'pocket' despite, presumably, containing a huge chunk of a nation's hypothetical industry. Other times provinces can be connected to supply by the most convoluted chain so there's no point in partial encirclements or anything. Do you need to stockpile or make depots near potential fronts or is that represented by the 'org.' or whatever stats the units have?

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the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
Good read, especially since I did my undergrad thesis partly on reports from the British Cairo Office dealing with Libya around this time OTL

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