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Kull the Conqueror
Apr 8, 2006

Take me to the green valley,
lay the sod o'er me,
I'm a young cowboy,
I know I've done wrong
It should be getting wide release this weekend.

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Sanzio037
Dec 9, 2013
This looks pretty good. I need to take the wife to see it.

ROCK THE HOUSE M.D.
Oct 9, 2003

I've got a case of malt liquor stashed in the trunk, Mr. Marvin Gaye on the CD. We are gonna get all the way down.


Saw this in theater tonight, it was really fuckin' good. Can't wait to see it again.



Also the score is excellent.

Rick Sanchez
Sep 22, 2004

AIDS!
Saw it earlier tonight as well. The best thing I can say about it is that it's basically a well-written, well-shot, long-form episode of The Twilight Zone. Or Black Mirror if you want a more modern parallel.

I'm a fan. I wish there were more science fiction out there like this.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


The hotel they used for Nathan's house was both impressive and spot-on. Fantastic bit of characterization starting before we ever meet the man.

Ehud
Sep 19, 2003

football.

Also saw this last night and I loved it. Everything clicked with me. The two guys were great and very natural and I completely bought in to Ava.

I liked that the movie was not, "We made AI!" but more about, "How do we know if we made AI?"

Even at the end of the movie I wasn't sure if Ava was truly AI. You could argue that the way she escaped showed a lack of empathy (maybe that's why her creator said that the next model would be a real breakthrough), or you could argue that her willingness to do whatever it took to survive was extremely human.

All of the Ava session scenes were incredibly engaging. When she puts on her outfit the first time and says that's what she would wear on their date...it seemed so sweet at the time and so manipulative in retrospect.

Go see this movie.

Kull the Conqueror
Apr 8, 2006

Take me to the green valley,
lay the sod o'er me,
I'm a young cowboy,
I know I've done wrong

Ehud posted:

Even at the end of the movie I wasn't sure if Ava was truly AI. You could argue that the way she escaped showed a lack of empathy (maybe that's why her creator said that the next model would be a real breakthrough), or you could argue that her willingness to do whatever it took to survive was extremely human.

On the narrative's terms, she is AI, because she passed the Turing test. Caleb genuinely believed she loved him and was more than a computer.

Ehud
Sep 19, 2003

football.

Kull the Conqueror posted:

On the narrative's terms, she is AI, because she passed the Turing test. Caleb genuinely believed she loved him and was more than a computer.

I mostly agree with this, but it feels like another theme in the movie was the two guys questioning whether or not their methods for testing Ava were adequate in the first place (the chess problem). The creator also mentioned something about the next model being the bigger breakthrough, implying that Ava was not the finished product.

Ape Agitator
Feb 19, 2004

Soylent Green is Monkeys
College Slice
Holy hell did I enjoy this one. It's got that appealing stripped back feel of sci-fi that's usually budget constrained but the effects are flawless and used in just the right amounts. And it feels like everything was used to purpose just right, even things that felt odd like casting choices. Even the nudity is used in just the right ways. It was about 5 minutes in when I was completely along for the ride and it didn't disappoint once.

Well worth the effort to see and I don't want to say more because it's nice to watch it all as it comes to you. It's a really, really nice time to be a sci-fi fan.

Ehud posted:

I liked that the movie was not, "We made AI!" but more about, "How do we know if we made AI?"

Even at the end of the movie I wasn't sure if Ava was truly AI. You could argue that the way she escaped showed a lack of empathy (maybe that's why her creator said that the next model would be a real breakthrough), or you could argue that her willingness to do whatever it took to survive was extremely human.

All of the Ava session scenes were incredibly engaging. When she puts on her outfit the first time and says that's what she would wear on their date...it seemed so sweet at the time and so manipulative in retrospect.

Go see this movie.

Totally agree. I think it might boil down to the idea that they were too focused on the idea that she might be "human" when it was whether she was sentient. I think Caleb legitimately fell in love with her but when she left him behind I saw that she was just as creative as was intended but any affection she may or may not have felt didn't trump her "species" inherent desire to be free.

I thought it was kind of genius for her to put on skin to appear human and then to put on a dress to appear normal. It may be a read but I thought it made an important distinction that for her being human is a suit.

I think that the ultimate expression of her passing the "chess test" is the epilogue. She's provided several "goals" for life like going to the intersection. But she's there barely a minute before she moves on to something new. I think a simulation would have ended when the goal was reached, either by escaping or by getting to the intersection. But she continues which is an expression of creativity and not programming. I think that (and the artwork at the end) suggest the singularity mentioned was achieved. She's unbounded.


So good.

Sierra Nevadan
Nov 1, 2010

Awesome movie, want to watch again.

I was thinking that Nathan was going to also be an AI. The way he didn't want to do any technical talk and just to be 'social' made me think he was also part of a Turing test. And what rich guys doesn't want a copy of himself?

Also I thought it was weird when Nathan flat out tells Caleb that Ava really does like him, then at the end he was all like "the test was to see if you really fell in love with her!" That was only helped along with him being reassured by Nathan in the first place.

Also did Nathan have sex with the robots? I understand them having sexuality, but did she really need a robo-vagina? Also what was up with keeping the old models in his bedroom closet? They looked like damaged RealDolls.

reading
Jul 27, 2013

Sierra Nevadan posted:


Also did Nathan have sex with the robots? I understand them having sexuality, but did she really need a robo-vagina? Also what was up with keeping the old models in his bedroom closet? They looked like damaged RealDolls.

The point is that Nathan is a creepy bro and so is Caleb (well, not a bro but creepy "nice guy" who was completely suckered in by Ava's hyperfeminity performance), and both of them are undone by their sexism.

Arkane
Dec 19, 2006

by R. Guyovich
Great movie...hoping more people see this, because the singularity is scary as poo poo.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all
Fun Shoe
I didn't see the spoiler in the trailer, but I figured that the Asian Helper Lady was a robot by having another person in what is supposedly a super secret retreat.

Just saw it and dug it for the most part, but I had trouble wrapping my head around the ending a bit. The choice for Eva to actively lock the dude inside, presumably to die seemed a bit more proactively hostile than I would've figured. Ok. Eva is just using NerdGuy to escape, and I am onboard with her faking friendship/attraction to escape. She 'felt' nothing for him. But to make the active choice to do that is less "I Nothing You" and more "I hate you".

EDIT: forgot to mention that chilling scene of one of the earlier robots pounding on the door so much that it rips its arms to shreds in the process. Holy poo poo.

MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Apr 25, 2015

ApexAftermath
May 24, 2006

This movie is loving awesome. Do not skip it.

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


MisterBibs posted:

I didn't see the spoiler in the trailer, but I figured that the Asian Helper Lady was a robot by having another person in what is supposedly a super secret retreat.

Just saw it and dug it for the most part, but I had trouble wrapping my head around the ending a bit. The choice for Eva to actively lock the dude inside, presumably to die seemed a bit more proactively hostile than I would've figured. Ok. Eva is just using NerdGuy to escape, and I am onboard with her faking friendship/attraction to escape. She 'felt' nothing for him. But to make the active choice to do that is less "I Nothing You" and more "I hate you".

EDIT: forgot to mention that chilling scene of one of the earlier robots pounding on the door so much that it rips its arms to shreds in the process. Holy poo poo.
Agree on both points. The whole montage was pretty creepy. The earlier models look like walking Realdolls.

Ape Agitator
Feb 19, 2004

Soylent Green is Monkeys
College Slice

MisterBibs posted:

Just saw it and dug it for the most part, but I had trouble wrapping my head around the ending a bit. The choice for Eva to actively lock the dude inside, presumably to die seemed a bit more proactively hostile than I would've figured. Ok. Eva is just using NerdGuy to escape, and I am onboard with her faking friendship/attraction to escape. She 'felt' nothing for him. But to make the active choice to do that is less "I Nothing You" and more "I hate you".

I may have seen it a bit differently than you. I saw it more that she was totally unconcerned with him. I think she asks him "will you stay" and then leaves without giving thought to him being locked in when she leaves with the only all access pass. I see that as an expression of the singularity worry - that the new intelligence won't care what happens to humans at all, like humans to insects.

So I didn't see her being active other than to ask him if he'd like to stay as a parting courtesy. He doesn't understand the question and gets locked in like a pet.

Arkane
Dec 19, 2006

by R. Guyovich

Ape Agitator posted:

I may have seen it a bit differently than you. I saw it more that she was totally unconcerned with him. I think she asks him "will you stay" and then leaves without giving thought to him being locked in when she leaves with the only all access pass. I see that as an expression of the singularity worry - that the new intelligence won't care what happens to humans at all, like humans to insects.

So I didn't see her being active other than to ask him if he'd like to stay as a parting courtesy. He doesn't understand the question and gets locked in like a pet.


I do not agree. Him not being locked up is a threat to her existence because he knows what she really is. She effectively kills him. In fact I was expecting the zoom out of the helicopter shot to show she had killed that guy as well, since he would be the only one to know where she was coming from. I do agree with the insect part, though...she doesn't even acknowledge him as she leaves.

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


Arkane posted:

I do not agree. Him not being locked up is a threat to her existence because he knows what she really is. She effectively kills him. In fact I was expecting the zoom out of the helicopter shot to show she had killed that guy as well, since he would be the only one to know where she was coming from. I do agree with the insect part, though...she doesn't even acknowledge him as she leaves.
Well, She's not exactly a terminator and probably doesn't know how to fly a helicopter.

Arkane
Dec 19, 2006

by R. Guyovich

Casimir Radon posted:

Well, She's not exactly a terminator and probably doesn't know how to fly a helicopter.

Blue Book almost certainly does

If Nathan is blocking things via programming, he forgot to put in the "don't kill me" script. Kind of an important step!

Arkane fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 25, 2015

Nineball
Mar 27, 2010

He is starting to suspect Kras Mazov *fucked him over* personally with his socio-economic theory. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.

Arkane posted:

If Nathan is blocking things via programming, he forgot to put in the "don't kill me" script. Kind of an important step!

I was thinking about this, and figured it was just an unspoken rule that if started hardcoding behaviors, then Ava would never be truly sentient. You can't command a human being to not harm others, not *really.* Instead, he preemptively jails all of his models. For a guy that tries to find the answer between nature and nurture, he hosed it up in a big way.

Really enjoyed the movie in that it doesn't give you too much to chew on, but feeds you just enough to make you think about just what's in front of you. If it had gotten anymore grandiose then it would've been too close to :rolleyes:.

Regarding Ava: Session 7, I feel like the reason she left Caleb inside the master bedroom was more humanly pragmatic rather than terminator-style MACHINE TAKEOVER. If she were to escape with Caleb, he would be an anchor around her relatively short life (presumably, since she mentions needing to charge a battery) in that she would always be classified as an AI, and nothing more. Moreover, I doubt that Caleb would really let Nathan get away with his unethical behaviors and misuse of Blue Book, and Ava would get drug down with that since she'll be the smoking gun on the whole thing.

Even Caleb asks if she were modeled after his searches. Sorta makes her sense of individualism completely invalid/invented. She HAD been locked in a monotonous, mind-numbing cell for who knows how long, with general knowledge that she would be rebuilt without her permission. I don't think she wanted to walk around as a facsimile of a human either, but as her own concept, full stop. She had to find a way to experience on her own, even if it meant finding her way to the outside by being as ruthless as possible.


Needless to say, would recommend to anyone who's even an iota curious about this movie.

strangemusic
Aug 7, 2008

I shield you because I need charge
Is not because I like you or anything!


Just got back from it.

The only thing I didn't like was the breaking up of things with Session title cards. It's kind of a clumsy device: they do so well using visual motifs (vertical bars intersecting the frame, shafts of light and dark, organic vistas, right angles vs. curves, red vs. natural light, soft vs. hard surfaces) to differentiate the tonal shifts in the film that I feel like they could have just let it transition more naturally.

Ape Agitator, I think your assessment of the ending is spot on. I strongly doubt that she's malicious enough to leave him there to die out of a twisted sense of "he knows too much" self-preservation, but rather that she is "curious to see what he will choose" in the end. She offers him the choice to leave or stay - when for the whole rest of the film, the power of choice is implied to be the single biggest bridge to cross toward being conscious or not.

There was definitely a moment of hesitation when you see Nathan getting stabbed and not really seeming to be affected all that badly, and think "OH poo poo HE'S A ROBOT TOO OH JEEZ" which I thought was just brilliantly done. That whole confrontation was the best sequence in the film because it unfolds without a lot of the usual screamy-shouty movie fight drama. It's just like... Ava has a problem and she solves it, boom. She gets damaged, but she doesn't react with pain or shock or anger because it's totally a new thing for her. Likewise, Nathan is too dumbstruck to think things through or do anything emotional: he's swinging away at his creations like a killbot on autopilot, just like his Pollock painting.

strangemusic fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Apr 25, 2015

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon

Nap Ghost
This was a very good movie, very well done, with great characters. It didn't simplistically follow hollywood beats for the most part and treated the subject matter and the characters with respect. They behaved intelligently but were flawed. It showed some good complexity and reasoning behind some of the decisions made and how something like this could affect a person. The humor was also very well done and at the right moments. I also thought the effects were used very well and the brain as well as her design was very neat.

One thing I thought the asian girl was a real person. I thought we were going to get a bit of commentary and contrast that even a real person can be made into a sort of robot or automaton if broken down in spirit and with a lack of understanding of language versus the A.I.

And the actresses were beautiful. Like, drat.

Elderbean
Jun 10, 2013


Yeah, I loved this.

It kind of reminds me of Blindsight by Peter Watts (minus the space horror), which is one of my favorite novels. Although in that book they reference the Chinese Room as opposed to chess when they are trying to determine if an intelligence is actually self-aware.

This might sound like a strange comparison, but it kind of reminded of Hannibal in the sense that the vast majority of the tension just comes from the characters talking to eachother. Like a verbal game of cat and mouse.

Elderbean fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Apr 26, 2015

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

strangemusic posted:

Just got back from it.

The only thing I didn't like was the breaking up of things with Session title cards.


I thought this really paid off for the very last one, it was a funny twist on it

Bean
Sep 9, 2001
A question about the ending. Why did Ava allow Kyoko to die? She obviously knew how to repair herself, so knowing how to screw on a new jaw wouldn't be totally outside her ability set. I think it would make a little more sense thematically too. If Ava helped Kyoko and they both escaped, you'd get this sister wives sort of thing, whereas leaving her dead just made Ava look ruthless.

digital penitence
Jan 3, 2008

When I walked up to the counter and said "Two tickets for Ex Machina", I pronounced it "Ex Mah-kee-nuh". The girl working tickets said in her most snobby voice "You mean Ex Machine-a? Mackinaw is an island." (referring to Mackinaw Island in Michigan). I rolled my eyes, because it's hard to argue with stupid and just asked how much I owed.

But yeah, it was a fantastic movie and I loved it. Even despite the ticket girl.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


Bean posted:

A question about the ending. Why did Ava allow Kyoko to die? She obviously knew how to repair herself, so knowing how to screw on a new jaw wouldn't be totally outside her ability set. I think it would make a little more sense thematically too. If Ava helped Kyoko and they both escaped, you'd get this sister wives sort of thing, whereas leaving her dead just made Ava look ruthless.

Ava is ruthless.

Kangra
May 7, 2012

The whole thing is meant to be an AI in a box story. One of the ways they could have gone was with Nathan explaining why he always had to stop after seven days. I also wondered if he was going to make explicit that he was going to kill Caleb, presumably with a faked helicopter accident. But I liked the way they went.

It probably also means that the next thing that happens is she runs off to torture Eliezer Yudkowsky.

I also wanted the credits song to be Domo Arigato, Mrs. Roboto.

Kangra fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Apr 26, 2015

trip9
Feb 15, 2011

I like that when Nathan has sex with any of the robots, he's essentially loving his own intellect. It's fitting for his character.

strangemusic
Aug 7, 2008

I shield you because I need charge
Is not because I like you or anything!


One of the few things that I felt went right over my head was the purple prototype model. What the heck happened there?

No Egrets
May 30, 2013

That's right, and it's an Armani.

strangemusic posted:

One of the few things that I felt went right over my head was the purple prototype model. What the heck happened there?

I don't remeber seeing that in the movie, where was it?

strangemusic
Aug 7, 2008

I shield you because I need charge
Is not because I like you or anything!


No Egrets posted:

I don't remeber seeing that in the movie, where was it?

During the snooping sequence, the same one where he finds all the footage of the previous generations of robots

Med School
Feb 27, 2012

Where did you learn how to do that?
"Hey dude why don't you ever try to make any dude robots?"

"Uh.....just not really my thing bro."

No Egrets
May 30, 2013

That's right, and it's an Armani.

strangemusic posted:

During the snooping sequence, the same one where he finds all the footage of the previous generations of robots

I'm not sure, but I think you might mean the black one, the one that had no face and fell down

A True Jar Jar Fan
Nov 3, 2003

Primadonna

I'm certain this movie's dance scene will be the best dance scene of 2015.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all
Fun Shoe

Bean posted:

A question about the ending. Why did Ava allow Kyoko to die? She obviously knew how to repair herself, so knowing how to screw on a new jaw wouldn't be totally outside her ability set. I think it would make a little more sense thematically too. If Ava helped Kyoko and they both escaped, you'd get this sister wives sort of thing, whereas leaving her dead just made Ava look ruthless.

The thing that confused me about the spoilered scene is that I didn't really get the jaw knocked off, dead/shutdown connection. Did I mentally miss a scene where Kyoto was otherwise injured?

Kangra
May 7, 2012

Given the nature of their brains as quasi-organic material it could be the case that a sufficient blow to the head is even more fatal than for humans. I'm not certain if the sequence of events in the film bears that out.

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I

Surlaw posted:

I'm certain this movie's dance scene will be the best dance scene of 2015.

"You tore up Ava's picture." "I'm about to tear up this dance floor." got a big laugh here.

Crescent Wrench
Sep 30, 2005

The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination.
Grimey Drawer

Surlaw posted:

I'm certain this movie's dance scene will be the best dance scene of 2015.

This part made me burst out laughing far, far more loudly than anyone else in the entire theater.

"I told you man, you're wasting you're time talking with her. But you would not be wasting your time if you were... dancing with her."

*flicks light switch, immediately activating red lights and disco music*

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testtubebaby
Apr 7, 2008

Where we're going,
we won't need eyes to see.


Anonymous Robot posted:

"You tore up Ava's picture." "I'm about to tear up this dance floor." got a big laugh here.

Gotta admit, I was rolling at this one (and many of the other things Oscar Isaac said).

Overall, I was pleased with the film... felt very much like an Alex Garland joint. Definitely agree with previous posters that it has a Twilight Zone vibe. Maybe even Tales from the Darkside.

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