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loquacius posted:D going with whips for Jessica. I had so much crowd control I couldn't do anything else. Man with a few buffs and some tension Whip Jessica cam outdamage almost everyone else.
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Nov 1, 2014 18:24
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Man with a few buffs and some tension Whip Jessica cam outdamage almost everyone else. Plus she gets a skill in that tree which is really, really useful against singular enemies, like most bosses.
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Nov 1, 2014 18:33
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Tax Refund posted:I vote Boomerangs+Swords for Eight, and Humanity+Scythes for Yangus. Oh, that's not an option? Well, then Axes+Scythes. Two things, first, you saw that the polls were links to some online polling thing, right? Second, getting some Humanity is presumed because Yangus will have skill points to spare.
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Nov 1, 2014 20:33
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Two things, first, you saw that the polls were links to some online polling thing, right? Second, getting some Humanity is presumed because Yangus will have skill points to spare. Missed that, sorry. Just voted on the actual poll. And getting "some" Humanity is one thing, maxing it out is another. I'd like to see it maxed, if you can pull that off.
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Nov 2, 2014 02:09
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I think I'm going to be following this thread for sure. Dragon Warrior 1 was my first RPG, but I was a stupid kid and totally couldn't wrap my brain around just how much grinding was necessary at the time (which is funny, because DW1 isn't even a very long game) and moved on. As an adult, I've made it a thing on my bucket list to play through all the main series proper, in order. As this is a sidequest to Choco's life, I've been doing it VERY slowly. I started about five years ago, and recently started playing my DQ3 game again, and I'm presently at the start of the final dungeon in that one. Which means soon I get to finally weigh the pros and cons between the original and remake of part 4 for which I'll playthrough. All that said, this installment right here is going to be one of the few that will be difficult for me to play inexpensively, so I'll be watching quite a bit.
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Nov 2, 2014 02:10
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I had this game on PS2, but didn't get too far. I'm too much of a scrub and found it too hard and grindy for my taste, plus I didn't know how skill points actually worked so my builds were a mess (which a friend with far more DQ knowledge called me out on). That said, I do like the game's style, I'm just not good enough for it (my skill level can only complete Dai no Daibouken, you know, the manga), so I'll gladly follow the LP.
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Nov 2, 2014 02:26
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Near as I can tell this was the first of the series to get a release in Europe - it was just known as Dragon Quest. I adored it, and still do.
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Nov 2, 2014 02:27
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man you people are nuts, sword+spear is the only way to go. 
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Nov 2, 2014 02:41
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I just want the spear, don't care what else gets in.
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Nov 2, 2014 04:43
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Axes+Scythes has a pretty commanding lead, but Eight's tied between Boomeraings+Swords and Fisticuffs+Spears. God bless you, one person who voted for Fisticuffs+Clubs on Yangus.
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Nov 2, 2014 05:09
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When I played, I didn't branch out at all. I picked one weapon and dumped all of my points into that and the special attribute for all of my characters, and didn't even consider putting points elsewhere until both of those were at 100. It sounds like that was probably not the best idea, then. Swords, axes, whips, and bows in case you're curious.
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Nov 2, 2014 05:27
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Man with a few buffs and some tension Whip Jessica cam outdamage almost everyone else. Staffs is really much easier due to the bonus MP, though. Let your magic-user character use some dang magic and you'll be much happier. Plus I got a lot of mileage out of Kasap. But that's just me.
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Nov 2, 2014 05:41
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loquacius posted:Staffs is really much easier due to the bonus MP, though. Let your magic-user character use some dang magic and you'll be much happier. Plus I got a lot of mileage out of Kasap. But that's just me. Double Strike from Whips does so much damage it makes magic look like a joke.
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Nov 2, 2014 05:43
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That's a problem with magic in Dragon Quest games in general. Magic attacks usually seem underpowered compared to weapon attacks or weapon-based skills, especially when you consider MP costs.
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Nov 2, 2014 06:00
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But the support skills, those play dividends consistently throughout the entire game. 
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Nov 2, 2014 06:02
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ManlyGrunting posted:But the support skills, those play dividends consistently throughout the entire game. Oh yeah. Managing buffs and debuffs quickly becomes non-loving-optional as they become available.
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Nov 2, 2014 06:21
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MechaCrash posted:When I played, I didn't branch out at all. I picked one weapon and dumped all of my points into that and the special attribute for all of my characters, and didn't even consider putting points elsewhere until both of those were at 100. It sounds like that was probably not the best idea, then. Swords, axes, whips, and bows in case you're curious. A mecha after my own heart.
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Nov 2, 2014 06:23
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:A mecha after my own heart. Interestingly, I remember when this game came out and that was the prevailing Gamefaqs guide on the subject for awhile--assuming you were leveling up stuff to max. I tried that and found it utterly miserable and had to give up at the halfway point. Spreading your points out with two focus abilities is far smarter in the long run.
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Nov 2, 2014 07:20
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MechaCrash posted:When I played, I didn't branch out at all. I picked one weapon and dumped all of my points into that and the special attribute for all of my characters, and didn't even consider putting points elsewhere until both of those were at 100. It sounds like that was probably not the best idea, then. Swords, axes, whips, and bows in case you're curious. Actually, that isn't the worst approach (which would probably be to just spread points evenly across everything). You can take a swipe or two at other weapons to pick up skills early on - the lower-level skills are clustered together a lot more than the higher levels are. (Generally the first roughly thirty points have five skills, and the remaining seventy have the other five.) In general, though, you're only going to have one weapon out at a time, so it makes sense to boost that weapon pretty high. The main effect of raising skills with a weapon is to make that weapon more attractive - you get abilities that can only be used with it, and you get combat bonuses that only work when you have it out. So even a slightly-worse sword, say, starts looking more attractive than the equivalent spear because you have more you can do with it, which in turn makes you want to spend more points on swords. The special abilities are more complementary things that help you no matter what weapon you have out, so putting points in there is a safe choice. Specializing in one weapon and the special skill is a totally valid approach that will get you through the game. Of course, whether it makes sense to go all the way to 100 in any particular area is a matter of opinion, since you're usually going from around 80 to 100 for one skill which you may not end up using that often. So if you know in advance you're not going to do that, you can throw those points into something that lets you perform specialized actions - for instance, you might go far enough to get mercurial thrust with your spear and use spears to hunt metal slimes (since your attack power is largely irrelevant while doing that). Or you could get the thin air ability that OFS was talking about. Or you could extend that approach to the last couple of abilities with a given weapon if you know you're never going to want to use them. As long as you know roughly how many points you're going to get you can plan that stuff out ahead of time. But you're not crippling yourself if you don't do that, you just aren't busting the game as much as you could. (I too picked one weapon per character. To hell with minmaxing!)
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Nov 2, 2014 16:57
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idonotlikepeas posted:Actually, that isn't the worst approach (which would probably be to just spread points evenly across everything).  That explains so much.
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Nov 2, 2014 16:59
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idonotlikepeas posted:Of course, whether it makes sense to go all the way to 100 in any particular area is a matter of opinion, since you're usually going from around 80 to 100 for one skill which you may not end up using that often. Let's look at Eight's spears since those are currently winning. At 59 points, he gets the upgrade to Lightning Thrust, Thunder Thrust. That's generally your stopping point. At 77, he gets Attack+25. It's 15 points extra, but that isn't worth 18 points considering, at best, it's 3 solid levels of skill points and at worst, it's about 7. Going all the way to 100 gets Lightning Storm, a Zap-based attack with a base damage of 200 and an MP cost of 25. This is horribly inefficient compared to, say, Zap, which deals half the damage with sufficient wisdom (Eight will have enough at level 37) at one fourth of the cost and is along the way to Omniheal anyway. At level 38, Eight will have 184 MP. This is enough for six lightning storms. This is also thirty Zaps. 38 is not an arbitrary number, as you literally cannot max a skill before that level. You could also stick to 59 spears and be able to get Zap, Omniheal, and half MP cost for more of the above while still having access to Spears important bits - Multithrust and Thunder Thrust.
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Nov 2, 2014 18:38
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I think this was the first game that I actually pre-ordered in my life. Never finished it, got impatient and tired with it around the point where you get the boat because I got sick of the forced grind and just didn't really care about any character that wasn't Yangus. Incidentally on the subject of skill-point allocation, I actually was repeated assailed with a hard cap on how many skill points I could invest by a certain point as I dumped basically all of Eight's points into Boomerangs and didn't touch much of the others. The game forced me to invest in something else. (I chose Courage) By the way, Trode's little statistics screen. Once upon a time on a message board now on CNET, I read that if you say, Gameshark or something your team to 99, King Trode has a response for it where he accuses you of selling your soul for cheat codes. Is there any truth to that?
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Nov 2, 2014 20:40
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Great game. Looking forward to the LP. Could you get a screenshot of a Slime before it dies? They're smiling even as they fade into oblivion.
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Nov 2, 2014 21:47
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Yangus is pretty much decided Axes+Scythes, but, uh. Could you guys at least break the tie? Mein gott.
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Nov 2, 2014 23:09
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Boomerangs > Swords. This game is so awesome.
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Nov 2, 2014 23:11
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I realized I never voted. Hope that clears things up!
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Nov 2, 2014 23:12
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Coal posted:Boomerangs > Swords. This game is so awesome. Well alright then! Boomerangs > Swords and Axes + Scythes win! Axes has our requisite auto-critical skill, so I don't have to invoke any exceptions, either!
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Nov 2, 2014 23:14
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drat. Would have preferred fisticuffs, barely seen those...but then, I've barely seen boomerangs either, so this is okay.
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Nov 2, 2014 23:20
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Let's look at Eight's spears since those are currently winning. At 59 points, he gets the upgrade to Lightning Thrust, Thunder Thrust. That's generally your stopping point. At 77, he gets Attack+25. It's 15 points extra, but that isn't worth 18 points considering, at best, it's 3 solid levels of skill points and at worst, it's about 7. Going all the way to 100 gets Lightning Storm, a Zap-based attack with a base damage of 200 and an MP cost of 25. This is horribly inefficient compared to, say, Zap, which deals half the damage with sufficient wisdom (Eight will have enough at level 37) at one fourth of the cost and is along the way to Omniheal anyway. One of the ways magic generally works in DQ games is that there's a tradeoff between efficiency and damage. The question of whether it's worth it comes down to whether it'll help you beat the enemies meaningfully faster in return for not being able to cast it as often - for instance, an ability that wipes out an enemy group in one move might be a better cast than one which does it in three even if it's less efficient, because getting the enemy down before they can move saves your healers MP and prevents any unfortunate surprises in terms of status effects. So you end up asking yourself how often that comes up, vs how often having your hero have, say, omniheal earlier will help. Different games in the series seem to end up having different answers to that question.
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Nov 2, 2014 23:33
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Picking swords is the best move for the post-game, trust me on this.
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Nov 2, 2014 23:37
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I have fond memories of sitting on the couch shepherding my mom through this game. Looking forward to the rest of this LP in a big way!
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Nov 3, 2014 01:11
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 Swords and Boomerangs won Eight's votes. First is Boomerangs so we can go through random encounters, and because it'd take a while to get some swank swords.  Axes and Scythes are Yangus's choices. Axes are first because, well, we get the first axe sooner. Furthermore, a lot of Axes's stuff is frontloaded.  This, dear reader, is an Axoraptor. Axoraptor will, most assuredly, loving murder us.  Seeds are stat-boosting items. This one will permanently increase the max HP of a character by a few points. I'll not even begin to consider using these until we have a full party.  oh poo poo axoraptor almost took my life  The checkpoint's closed, so we're stuck in Farebury.  So here's that waterfall cave, the game's first dungeon.  Clearly, let's go this way around it instead.  It's secretly a path up to the top of the mountain!  I need to remember party chats are a thing.   "Awright, so there might be a few more monsters, but a real man don't need to worry about that!"There's a lot of nice flavor text in here.  Anyway, ontop of the waterfalls is this hut.  Inside of this hut is an incredibly muscular man.  Clearly we should rummage through his things before introducing ourselves.  Despite stealing his agility-increasing items he seems nice enough.  DQ protagonist, a JRPG wouldn't let this go without rewards, etc.  "Okay, I'm only going to say this once, so clean out your ears and get listenin'." "I had a bit of a kip there when I was out the other day, and it seems I left my tool bag behind. I don't expect you to do this for free of course. I'll be able to give you a small reward. I'll be waitin' here in my hut for you to bring it back. Try not to take too long." We can see the tree he mentioned there, along with what I think is the next town.  Here we see the One Knight Stand in its natural habitat. It would be kind of rough to fight him and I don't really feel like trying yet. There's a big point to all these guys, and I am nowhere near it.  Anyway, enough mucking about. It's time to take on Dragon Quest 8's first dungeon.  He won't be available for party chats. There's a much bigger consequence to him ducking out of dungeons later in the game.   Cold and Gloomy As you might expect, the waterfall cave is a cave with waterfalls.  It's got entirely new enemies attempting to murder us, as well.  Dancing Devils, well, dance.  It's a shocking move, technically, but drat if it isn't snazzier than face-licking.  Mischievous Moles can psyche up like the player. They're way too dangerous if left alive for long.  The experience is a hell of a lot better than what's outside.  Yangus picks up his first Axes ability relatively quick.  Helm Splitter would be a great move to have, if I could get an axe at this point. It's a regular attack with a Sap effect applied at no MP cost, so, basically, it's a regular attack that can decrease defense. I don't think it can critical but you're probably going to want the defense decrease against most things.  Like the overworld, Eight doesn't start with a map for dungeons. Most of them can be found relatively early on though.  The right path is much more lucrative than the left.  Inside is a peddler (who I forget to talk to (but says nothing particularly interesting anyway)) and three chests.  Bubble Slimes have relatively low attack but can poison on damage. It helps to have a few antidotal herbs on hand.  They never lose that winning smile, even in death.  free chimaera wing for the trip back to Farebury, if needed.  This is Yangus's default hat, and Eight can equip it too. It's 2 points better than the Bandana.  Drackies are only a smidgen stronger than slimes. They'd show up if I ever ran around enough for night to fall.  A lesser game would just have a stony corridor here. Not DQ8. You get waterfalls.  Skippers are probably here just to kick my rear end since they hit quite a bit harder than everything else present. They drop bunny tails at a 1/32 rate. I only bring this up because jesus christ I got 2 1/256 drops.  The hazards of emulation: some things screw up and I don't even know why and the only fix involves tanking the framerate by a 5th. I apologize for the inconvenience.  " A man that looked like a peddler came along earlier, but when he saw me he ran away without saying a word! Anyway... As you've probably realised, you'll have to fight me if you want to go any further!" Hell yeah! We'll kick your rear end!  "..."..."  "Off you go. Be careful now!"I am pretty sure this entire scene serves no purpose other than to be exceedingly whimsical.  HORRIBLE BURNING DEATH IS NOT WHIMSICAL.  Yangus actually has an innate resistance to Frizz. How handy!  Just because it's a slime doesn't mean it wants to kill us.  Well yeah I'm not sure why you'd lie. "Yay! Then I'll tell you something good! It is a dead end, but there's a treasure chest up there! (Slurp)" That's quite the treasure. Five points stronger than the Soldier's Sword, and we saved 270 gold getting this!  Relatively high defense, but low HP. I think they can cast Acelleratle, an agility-increasing spell.  Skippers can certainly cast its opposite.  This is only mildly annoying as otherwise Skippers would be pounding my HP out.   Well this is unexpected. I didn't think I'd hit level 6 so close to the boss.  Believe it or not this cave being so rainbow-y is another flub. Somehow being incompetent has made the game prettier.  At level 6, Eight picks up a spell for escaping dungeons.  He also gets enough skill points to pick up his first boomerang skill. No good way to explain it without a boomerang to demonstrate it.  Anyway, next time, Dragon Quest VIII's first boss!
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Nov 3, 2014 04:14
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Small oversight on your part. The hammer guy guarding the hole in the door can be fought if you talk to him again. Again it is a funny conversation so that is all I will say.
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Nov 3, 2014 04:37
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Hey, I remember playing Blue Dragon for a bit. At a lot of points, you ended up with mobs made up of natural enemies. When that happened, the enemies would spend their first turn killing their designated prey before you could even move, saving you a lot of trouble. Does anything like that happen here?
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Nov 3, 2014 04:58
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I enjoyed this game substantially more after realizing the party has new things to say for every level in a dungeon.
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Nov 3, 2014 07:07
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Geostomp posted:Hey, I remember playing Blue Dragon for a bit. At a lot of points, you ended up with mobs made up of natural enemies. When that happened, the enemies would spend their first turn killing their designated prey before you could even move, saving you a lot of trouble. Does anything like that happen here? Nah, everyone on both sides always lines up in a neat little row and there are no actual random groups--the game always selects from a large but very specific list of enemy encounters when it's time to fight. And I'd like to echo Renoistic. It becomes easier to remember to check in with the party once you realize that they will say something new after virtually every single map change and cutscene.
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Nov 3, 2014 07:14
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I love the Dragon Warrior/Quest series to death, and have basically ever since I was a kid and got my hands on DWM and the GBC remakes of the first three games. That said, this is one of the games in the series I haven't played, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes. (Or I could play the copy sitting in my desk drawer right now, but my attention span these days probably isn't good enough for a full-length JRPG)
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Nov 3, 2014 10:08
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What Yangus is trying to say, IIRC, is that you get fewer random encounters if you walk on the paths versus if you go cross county. Not sure if you mentioned that yet. It's good to know if you're limping back to town with half your party dead. Also I played this game to death and never knew about that house on the hill.
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Nov 3, 2014 14:25
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Yangus has an innate resistance to Frizz? How did I never know this? Do the other characters have innate resistances and such?
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Nov 3, 2014 15:37
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DjinnAndTonic posted:Yangus has an innate resistance to Frizz? How did I never know this? Do the other characters have innate resistances and such? IIRC they all have one resistance to something.
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Nov 3, 2014 16:20
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