amuayse posted:

why the gently caress did morgoth steal the silmarils if they burned him

amuayse posted:

why didn't Eru come down and tell the elves to stop killing each other ffs. I mean Eru did kill 90% of humans during the fall of Numenor and after that he quit because he got depressed

LifeSizePotato posted:

p sure if harry potter had a 9mm glock he coulda popped voldemort in the dome without much hassle too

LifeSizePotato posted:

p sure if harry potter had a 9mm glock he coulda popped voldemort in the dome without much hassle too

Plafop posted:

Frodo wasn't able to throw it away, he bitched out at the last moment just like Isildur.

Tricky D posted:

This.

Only hobbits, the idealized English country gentleman, had the perfect balance of incorruptibility and noblesse oblige to be given ultimate power and be able to throw it away for the good of civilization.

Stealthgerbil posted:

if you want to take out a wizard, just use a high powered sniper rifle. look at harry dresden for example.

Dongattack posted:

Ugh. It annoys me every time someone brings this up, i.e. "Why didn't an eagle just fly the Ring into Mount Doom?"

The reason the Ringbearer did not fly to Mordor by Eagle is fairly simple: the purpose of the Fellowship of the Ring and the linchpin of the entire strategy decided on in Rivendell was to destroy the Ring in a mission of secrecy.

Taking the Eagles might have worked, I will grant that. It may have been a successful mission and allowed the Ring to be destroyed earlier than it "actually" was. However, it would have sacrificed secrecy and drastically increased the changes of the Ring being captured. When you have the fate of the world hanging in the balance, you don’t want to take any unnecessary chances.

Eagles are, clearly, far more noticeable than Hobbits or other travelers on foot. We don’t know how exactly Gandalf planned to get into Mordor, but we can surmise that they would have gone through a mountain pass or valley some where. We know of only three (the Morannon, Cirith Ungol, and the Nameless Pass), but it stands to reason that there were more. Not ideal ones, perhaps (though Cirith Ungol itself was not ideal), but mountains are not impenetrable and continuous walls of rock.

An Eagle flying through the air would be easily noticed by Orcs or other watchers (remember the sinister and sorcerous ones at the Tower of Cirith Ungol – there might have been more). Travelers on foot could sneak around much more easily, scout ahead (especially with a ranger), and slip by unnoticed (remember how quiet hobbits are?). The Eagles might have been able to slip by unnoticed, but it would have become far more likely that they would have been caught. Once inside Mordor (if they even make it), there is still the chance that the Eagles could be caught. There are the threats of the Nazgul’s fell beasts, and archers (the Eagles in The Hobbit were afraid of shepherds with bows, so one can imagine how they might react to trained soldiers).

The "classic" Eagle plan, (i.e. simply flying to Mount Doom and dropping the Ring into it), would not work for a couple of reasons. First, the Ring could not just be dropped into the caldera; it had to be taken into the Crack of Doom itself: the center of Sauron’s sorcererous powers. The Crack of Doom was at the end of a tunnel that bored into the mountainside, and an Eagle would likely not fit inside, so it would have to bring have a rider. This would limit the height to which it could fly (the rider would need to breathe) and its agility during a fight. Yet more possibilities for failure. Second, a giant Eagle landing on the slope of Mount Doom would be quickly evident to any troops stationed there. A small group of people on foot might be able to sneak up unnoticed. Again, the Eagle plan might work, but it increases the chances of being caught.

In conclusion, the Council of Elrond did not know exactly what to expect in Mordor, so they had to plan for the worst (i.e., assume the worst case scenario for each possible solution). The Fellowship plan was itself a very long shot and indeed, it failed in its original conception, though obviously a fragment of the Fellowship persisted. The Eagle plan raises such a host of potential issues and problems that I think it is quite understandable why the Council opted to send people on foot. As I mentioned at the beginning, their concern was stealth, not speed.

Matoi Ryuko posted:

a hole-y ghost posted:

um matoi ryuko, that was actually really rude. he's just trying to contribute to the discussion

Matoi Ryuko posted:

Dongattack posted:

Ugh. It annoys me every time someone brings this up, i.e. "Why didn't an eagle just fly the Ring into Mount Doom?"

The reason the Ringbearer did not fly to Mordor by Eagle is fairly simple: the purpose of the Fellowship of the Ring and the linchpin of the entire strategy decided on in Rivendell was to destroy the Ring in a mission of secrecy.

Taking the Eagles might have worked, I will grant that. It may have been a successful mission and allowed the Ring to be destroyed earlier than it "actually" was. However, it would have sacrificed secrecy and drastically increased the changes of the Ring being captured. When you have the fate of the world hanging in the balance, you don’t want to take any unnecessary chances.

Eagles are, clearly, far more noticeable than Hobbits or other travelers on foot. We don’t know how exactly Gandalf planned to get into Mordor, but we can surmise that they would have gone through a mountain pass or valley some where. We know of only three (the Morannon, Cirith Ungol, and the Nameless Pass), but it stands to reason that there were more. Not ideal ones, perhaps (though Cirith Ungol itself was not ideal), but mountains are not impenetrable and continuous walls of rock.

An Eagle flying through the air would be easily noticed by Orcs or other watchers (remember the sinister and sorcerous ones at the Tower of Cirith Ungol – there might have been more). Travelers on foot could sneak around much more easily, scout ahead (especially with a ranger), and slip by unnoticed (remember how quiet hobbits are?). The Eagles might have been able to slip by unnoticed, but it would have become far more likely that they would have been caught. Once inside Mordor (if they even make it), there is still the chance that the Eagles could be caught. There are the threats of the Nazgul’s fell beasts, and archers (the Eagles in The Hobbit were afraid of shepherds with bows, so one can imagine how they might react to trained soldiers).

The "classic" Eagle plan, (i.e. simply flying to Mount Doom and dropping the Ring into it), would not work for a couple of reasons. First, the Ring could not just be dropped into the caldera; it had to be taken into the Crack of Doom itself: the center of Sauron’s sorcererous powers. The Crack of Doom was at the end of a tunnel that bored into the mountainside, and an Eagle would likely not fit inside, so it would have to bring have a rider. This would limit the height to which it could fly (the rider would need to breathe) and its agility during a fight. Yet more possibilities for failure. Second, a giant Eagle landing on the slope of Mount Doom would be quickly evident to any troops stationed there. A small group of people on foot might be able to sneak up unnoticed. Again, the Eagle plan might work, but it increases the chances of being caught.

In conclusion, the Council of Elrond did not know exactly what to expect in Mordor, so they had to plan for the worst (i.e., assume the worst case scenario for each possible solution). The Fellowship plan was itself a very long shot and indeed, it failed in its original conception, though obviously a fragment of the Fellowship persisted. The Eagle plan raises such a host of potential issues and problems that I think it is quite understandable why the Council opted to send people on foot. As I mentioned at the beginning, their concern was stealth, not speed.

EvilTobaccoExec posted:

so why didnt the gandalf cut off fredo’s fingers

Alas Boobylon posted:

i read all your poo poo shitlord and i agree

the biggest with LOTR isnt why some autistic eagle-ring divebomb scheme didn't occur, but how the witch king of agmar is such a little BITCH

seriously, the chief battle commander and warmage of sauron got killed by 1. a bitch 2. a bitch hobbit

gaaaaaaaaaaaay

babypolis posted:

uhm sorry that part owns ironic prophecies own

theres a cool tidbit in the book where it tells the story of the blade used to kill him and how it was made by numeroneans specially to gently caress up angmar and how the dude that forged it would be really happy to know it was used to kill him

Baron Bifford posted:

Why does everyone keep asking this? The eagles would have been spotted by the Eye of Sauron and brought down by the Ringwraiths on their flying beasts.

You may all thank me now for settling this.

But Rocks Hurt Head posted:

please post your speculation on the nature of tom bombadil. thanks.

LifeSizePotato posted:

p sure if harry potter had a 9mm glock he coulda popped voldemort in the dome without much hassle too

paranoid randroid posted:

hes eru iluvatar

But Rocks Hurt Head posted:

please post your speculation on the nature of tom bombadil. thanks.

Matoi Ryuko posted:

But Rocks Hurt Head posted:

please post your speculation on the nature of tom bombadil. thanks.

Tolkien posted:

"Gwaihir's M60 raked through the ranks of fearful, turbaned Haradrim - a terrible death from the air which they had no capacity to resist. As the ranks of brown-skinned men broke and they began to flee the Windlord's cries rang like a trumpet over the battlefield. "Freedom," he was calling in the tongue of the great eagles, "Freedom! Liberty! The Right to Bear Arms!"

EmperorFritoBandito posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4N5IuLJS7Y&t=4s