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At my polling place in Oakland, I know you can get them in Chinese, Vietnamese and  Spanish. There are a bunch of other languages available too, I just see those three most often.
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Nov 3, 2014 17:56
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Ethiser posted:Are most government forms and documents available in a large number of languages? Like could I go register to vote and receive a form to fill out in Estonian? To my knowledge, the place with a large enough population of people who speak other languages have forms in that language. A place that has either a number or a percentage must put out forms by law depending on population. An area nearby have forms in English, Spanish and Vietnemese. So yeah, making English required is for the sake of white people. Hell, you need to learn English to pass the citizenship test. Any more than that is just a dog whistle.
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Nov 3, 2014 17:58
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Alaska natives won a VRA court case in September regarding access to ballots in indigenous languages. I mean, you're not going to argue Yupik people aren't actually American if they don't know English, are you?
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Nov 3, 2014 18:00
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To help them get a leg up, we really should send them to special schools where they can learn English. We owe it to them for all we've done in the past. A special school, where they can become modernized, is the least we can do.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:03
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Samurai Sanders posted:Why would the Dems bring that up like that? What voters are they appealing to? I mean, I'm an ESL teacher but even I think our government shouldn't focus on English ability in regards to immigrants. Our country doesn't have an official language for a reason. Integration and assimilation practically requires the use of English. It's difficult to meaningfully deal with someone who can't communicate with you. Limiting yourself to being a permanent "Other" is bad all around. However, we absolutely should have Spanish as a second language similar to how Canada uses French. Every child should learn it in school as a prerequisite for graduation, to eliminate these issues in the future.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:06
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Samurai Sanders posted:There's a world if difference between "helping" and "forcing". That platform sounds like the latter, and honestly I thought it was something only the Republicans would say. The Democratic guy running in my district is in favor of mandatory speaking of English.  And surprisingly my congressman, Barletta, who became famous for his opposition to immigrants, is in favor of giving in-state tuition.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:09
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Also English is basically lingua franca at this point, everyone should have a basic understanding of it.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:13
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Grapplejack posted:Also English is basically lingua franca at this point, everyone should have a basic understanding of it. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 18:22
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Pappyland posted:I just want to know what Socialists they were speaking to when they made their quiz. 
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Nov 3, 2014 18:25
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Samurai Sanders posted:There's a world if difference between "helping" and "forcing". That platform sounds like the latter, and honestly I thought it was something only the Republicans would say. Oh. Yeah. "Forcing" is pretty harsh. But that makes me wonder how you'd "force" them without just spending the money to "help" them by setting up community classes or something like that. It would probably even cost less and I always thought it was a good idea. Like, "taking this class will help you get a job/green card/whatever" not "speak English or GTFO, beaner!" I think language classes could be reasonably woven into a path to citizenship as long as it were easily attainable, similar to how job seeking is tied to unemployment benefits or something. I was just generally curious why suggesting that it might be beneficial for immigrants to learn the common language was always deemed racist or something so thanks for clarifying. Talmonis posted:However, we absolutely should have Spanish as a second language similar to how Canada uses French. Every child should learn it in school as a prerequisite for graduation, to eliminate these issues in the future. I support this also. Shbobdb posted:To help them get a leg up, we really should send them to special schools where they can learn English. We owe it to them for all we've done in the past. A special school, where they can become modernized, is the least we can do. No one said this. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 18:26
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Samurai Sanders posted:As a white American native English speaker, I am not going to take that position. A Shbobdb alluded to, there's bad history behind that position. It should be everyone's choice whether they want to get the benefits of being an English speaker or not. And yeah, many people choose to. I would say no, a country has every right to expect its citizens speak one language primarily, and also enforce this through expecting the business of state to be done in this language.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:29
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Man what kind of a dickhead moves to a country and doesn't learn the language that everyone there speaks? And why would anybody want to encourage that behaviour? You can make an exception for natives that speak whatever native languages because they were there first, but if you move to a new country is it really so wrong to expect someone to be able to speak whatever the official language there is? I wouldn't permanently move to Russia or China without learning to speak Russian or Mandarin, because that'd be fuckin dumb.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:32
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Crowsbeak posted:I would say no, a country has every right to expect its citizens speak one language primarily, and also enforce this through expecting the business of state to be done in this language.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:33
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Joementum posted:As he said, the Republicans need to get beyond the perception that they don't want African-Americans to vote. There was an article in my local rag this morning about voter supression tricks, but it never mentioned that repubs are responsible for 99% of them. Worthless MSM.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:34
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ChairMaster posted:Man what kind of a dickhead moves to a country and doesn't learn the language that everyone there speaks? And why would anybody want to encourage that behaviour? You can make an exception for natives that speak whatever native languages because they were there first, but if you move to a new country is it really so wrong to expect someone to be able to speak whatever the official language there is? I wouldn't permanently move to Russia or China without learning to speak Russian or Mandarin, because that'd be fuckin dumb. A lot of Spanish speakers in this country have been living on the land before it was American.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:37
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The only reason I'm unwilling to vote is cause my mother is trying to force to vote for Rob Wittman and Ed Gillespie.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:37
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Crowsbeak posted:I would say no, a country has every right to expect its citizens speak one language primarily, and also enforce this through expecting the business of state to be done in this language. Sure, I suppose it does, but America hasn't codified an official language into our laws and the founders specifically choose not to do so. So in America people have the right to speak whatever language they please and no one can force them to do otherwise. -EDIT- China has eight official languages, including Mandarin, Cantonese, and in Hong Kong, English. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 18:38
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Chimera-gui posted:The only reason I'm unwilling to vote is cause my mother is trying to force to vote for Rob Wittman and Ed Gillespie. For once I'd say "vote [Warner] just to spite her".
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Nov 3, 2014 18:38
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computer parts posted:A lot of Spanish speakers in this country have been living on the land before it was American. Sounds like a native language to me. If America had official languages, Spanish would be one of them anyways.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:39
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Chimera-gui posted:The only reason I'm unwilling to vote is cause my mother is trying to force to vote for Rob Wittman and Ed Gillespie. She's not going to be in the booth with you. Also this is the gooniest reason to not vote.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:40
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ChairMaster posted:Man what kind of a dickhead moves to a country and doesn't learn the language that everyone there speaks? And why would anybody want to encourage that behaviour? You can make an exception for natives that speak whatever native languages because they were there first, but if you move to a new country is it really so wrong to expect someone to be able to speak whatever the official language there is? I wouldn't permanently move to Russia or China without learning to speak Russian or Mandarin, because that'd be fuckin dumb. Firstly, not everyone in a family unit of voting age needs to speak the dominant language of the country in order to do business, so your argument only really applies to primary breadwinners. Secondly, learning a language isn't an instant or free process and denying someone access to their vote until they've jumped through your hurdles isn't fair or reasonable. Finally, as others have said, there's no official language in the US to base this around. Knowing a majority of Americans speak english isn't really relevant if everyone you meet in business and life within your corner of the US speaks something else. If we're going off numbers because it's convenient and not about race or nationalism, then why not just set up a one world language and make us all learn Cantonese?
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Nov 3, 2014 18:41
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Who What Now posted:Sure, I suppose it does, but America hasn't codified an official language into our laws and the founders specifically choose not to do so. So in America people have the right to speak whatever language they please and no one can force them to do otherwise. Which is fine and good, but this sort of thing keeps them from integrating into larger American society. It also feeds into the conservative jingoism that they just want to come here to take American jobs and social programs, and not participate in the culture. It absolutely is about nationalism.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:42
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ChairMaster posted:Man what kind of a dickhead moves to a country and doesn't learn the language that everyone there speaks? I guess dickheads like the many thousands of German-speakers and Swedish-speakers who moved to the midwest in the 19th century.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:43
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There are still native Texans who grew up with German as their first language. They're all old, but there are still some out there.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:43
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I'm all for immigration and diversity, but green cards should only be handed out to those who speak English and enjoy Jerry Reed.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:44
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emfive posted:I guess dickheads like the many thousands of German-speakers and Swedish-speakers who moved to the midwest in the 19th century. woah a thing that happened 200 years ago doesn't work the same way that it works now, that's so weird.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:47
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effectual posted:There was an article in my local rag this morning about voter supression tricks, but it never mentioned that repubs are responsible for 99% of them. Worthless MSM. They'll find one case where a white person's voter registration was misplaced in Chicago, and that will be perfectly framed as "all sides are equally wrong, the truth is in the middle!"
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Nov 3, 2014 18:49
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emfive posted:I guess dickheads like the many thousands of German-speakers and Swedish-speakers who moved to the midwest in the 19th century. I am sure most of them ended up learning English.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:50
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English is part of the citizenship test already? The verbal questions are in English, I've quizzed plenty of relatives.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:55
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ChairMaster posted:woah a thing that happened 200 years ago doesn't work the same way that it works now, that's so weird. I've met relatives who were beaten in school because they spoke French. This is not a piece of ancient history. I agree that learning the local language, English or in some areas Spanish, is very useful and language classes should be more accessible. But any time you talk about forcing people to learn a language it's going to lead to bad outcomes.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:57
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Crowsbeak posted:I am sure most of them ended up learning English. Nah, but their grandkids did. You ever met a third-generation American who didn't speak English? That's the pattern in LA: first-generation moves to a Spanish-speaking neighborhood and gets by without English, their kids go to school and learn English and kinda serve as translators for their parents - their English may not be perfect, but they can get by. Then the third generation kids I grew up with all speak native English and bad Spanish. Wish I had some statistics to back this up or something but research takes work.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:57
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:English is part of the citizenship test already? The verbal questions are in English, I've quizzed plenty of relatives. If you're over a certain age you can take it in your native language or have someone translate, I believe.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:58
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Learning a language is orders of magnitude easier if you're immersed in the language and will generally happen pretty fast after that, so let's make that as hard as possible.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:59
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Nah, but their grandkids did. You ever met a third-generation American who didn't speak English? That's the pattern in LA: first-generation moves to a Spanish-speaking neighborhood and gets by without English, their kids go to school and learn English and kinda serve as translators for their parents - their English may not be perfect, but they can get by. Then the third generation kids I grew up with all speak native English and bad Spanish. That's usually the pattern, although I also only have anecdotes to back it up. But in some areas the de facto official language is Spanish, Dutch, or Inuktitut, so that's what people grow up to learn. Young people often choose to learn English so they can communicate with more people, while the older generation may continue to speak whatever they choose. There is a delicate balance between preserving a culture by means of preserving its language, and letting the children of native speakers decide what language they want to learn. In Louisiana, Cajun French suffered a great decline because of a targeted effort to Anglicize the speakers, but now the language has had a resurgence and many schools are teaching the grandchildren of Cajun speakers the language again.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:03
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:For once I'd say "vote [Warner] just to spite her". nutranurse posted:She's not going to be in the booth with you. Also this is the gooniest reason to not vote. She'd ask me who I voted for though so voting anything but those two is not an option.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:05
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Chimera-gui posted:She'd ask me who I voted for though so voting anything but those two is not an option. Sever. fake edit: Then why would you tell her who you voted for instead of telling her it isn't her business or lying to her? This is indeed a pretty goony reason to not vote.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:06
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Chimera-gui posted:She'd ask me who I voted for though so voting anything but those two is not an option. ...You can lie to her. This is when I'd ask if you're an actual child but no for this to be an issue you legally have to be a grown rear end adult.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:07
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Michael Bloomberg's lawyers have registered the following domain names:
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Nov 3, 2014 19:10
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Joementum posted:Michael Bloomberg's lawyers have registered the following domain names: Those two really stand out as being extremely self conscious. De Blasio's enormity must be a huge source of insecurity for him. Out of all the complaints I have about Bloomberg, "lol he's too short" isn't one of them.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:18
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last time i went to jury duty i ended up getting selected. one of the people in my juror group was a 60ish asian woman named mrs. vu. some guy, her husband i guess, was translating for her, but as he wasn't selected he stayed and napped in the jury hall while the rest of us went upstairs. we go throuh basic disqualification procedures first, one of which is the judge saying "anyone who doesn't speak english well enough to participate can go home right now". then we go through hours of procedural crap. our pool of 40 whittles down to a pool of 24. finally in the late afternoon the lawyers start asking us individual questions to select their 12. when they get to mrs. vu, turns out she doesn't speak but three words of english. the judge dismisses her immediately, and i get dismissed shortly after. we go back downstairs, having wasted a day doing our civic duty, when who i presume is mr. vu asks me if that's it, if she can go home now? i say yeah, we're done, go home. they thank me of all things and drive off. she sat there all drat day with no idea what's going on except it was her duty as an american to sit there until told to go home. it's not easy for everyone to learn english guys, and people almost never do it out of spite or stubbornness given what a big pain in the rear end it is to not speak the local language
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Nov 3, 2014 19:18
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