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Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Maxwell Lord posted:

Not to sound like a grognard, but if you're not playing a character so much as the forces acting on them, is it still an RPG?

Asking the question doesn't make you a grog. Nerd-Raging about it would.

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Spincut
Jan 14, 2008

Oh! OSHA gonna make you serve time!
'Cause you an occupational hazard tonight.

Maxwell Lord posted:

Not to sound like a grognard, but if you're not playing a character so much as the forces acting on them, is it still an RPG?

Sounds like it. You're still playing a role.

I think the real question is if you're playing the forces acting on a character rather than the character themselves, is that a meaningful change in terms of how an RPG is traditionally looked at? The character can't really be looked at as "you" anymore. "You" is now the force that you're playing. So really you've just shifted the role that you're playing rather than changing how it is that you engage with the game.

I'm kind of brain-blasted right now, so that probably makes no sense.

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Is something like The Quiet Year still an RPG? I'd probably label it more as a collaborative story-telling game.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Galaga Galaxian posted:

Is something like The Quiet Year still an RPG? I'd probably label it more as a collaborative story-telling game.

I always felt RPGs were collaborative story-telling games. At least, I felt that's what made them different from war game or board games, personally. Then again, there are board games like Gloom which are about collaborative storytelling.

Tulpa
Aug 8, 2014
A Penny For My Thoughts still gives you choice of how your character acts, though not nearly as much choice as a traditional RPG. You play by framing scenes as your character experiences them, and spending an in-game currency to find out what your character does or says. This currency goes to the player whose suggestion best matches what you want your character to do. It's not necessarily angst-core depression gaming, but it naturally gels with that particular style and is a much better system fit for something like Wraith than World of Darkness rules were.

So, in a way, A Penny For My Thoughts is what you get when you throw out the cards from Apples to Apples/Dixit/Cards Against Humanity and just put that turn structure into an RPG context.

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

Spincut posted:

Sounds like it. You're still playing a role.

I think the real question is if you're playing the forces acting on a character rather than the character themselves, is that a meaningful change in terms of how an RPG is traditionally looked at? The character can't really be looked at as "you" anymore. "You" is now the force that you're playing. So really you've just shifted the role that you're playing rather than changing how it is that you engage with the game.

I'm kind of brain-blasted right now, so that probably makes no sense.

Pendragon is an example of having a character that is constrained by "external" forces. Ars Magica is an example of having the characters be clearly distinct from the player. These aren't new ideas, just expressed in a different way. On a nastier note, railroading is another example of characters being constrained by external forces.

Of course, I feel that a lot of the stuff about queering game design is willfully ignoring that RPGs are built around the idea that you can shuck identities and personae on and off like a coat.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

For anyone who's in the southern New England area, I just got confirmation that we're going to be doing Games on Demand again. Show up, and you may be lucky enough to have me run a game for you because I know you all want to see how I GM.

Shoombo
Jan 1, 2013
In terms of games where you control forces acting on a character instead of the character itself, I think Everyone is John should at least get a mention.

head58
Apr 1, 2013

Evil Mastermind posted:

For anyone who's in the southern New England area, I just got confirmation that we're going to be doing Games on Demand again. Show up, and you may be lucky enough to have me run a game for you because I know you all want to see how I GM.

Where/when is this?

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Boston, MA on March 6-8

Holy poo poo they're already almost sold out. :psyduck:

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Spincut posted:

I think the real question is if you're playing the forces acting on a character rather than the character themselves, is that a meaningful change in terms of how an RPG is traditionally looked at? The character can't really be looked at as "you" anymore. "You" is now the force that you're playing. So really you've just shifted the role that you're playing rather than changing how it is that you engage with the game.

I think it's a meaningful change if the original claim/concept is that a "person-based" RPG and the drive to avoid railroading tends to allow players to have agency in ways that wouldn't necessarily be possible without a certain level of privilege. You would expect a "force" to have a lot of agency.

Libertad!
Oct 30, 2013

You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!
When I first described my GMing style in Pathfinder on a thread somewhere here, someone asked why I wasn't playing Dungeon World.

When I made a blog post about the benefits of minimalist, collaborative world-building, another person recommended me Dungeon World.

This, combined with that RPG is near the top of the bucket list of games for me to play, along with a lot of positive reviews, made me decide to stop procrastinating and start finding a gaming group for it.

I was wondering if any Goons here are running or planning to run Dungeon World games on Roll20? Normally I'd ask in the TG Game Recruitment Megathread, but I don't GM RPGs where I don't know the rules very well. I'd much rather be a player.

Otherwise I can try talking my regular group into trying it out, but I'd rather see how people who know the ropes play it first so I don't gently caress it up on my own.

Libertad! fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Nov 13, 2014

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade

grassy gnoll posted:

Ho ho ho! Now you have a machine gun!

In the spirit of Secret Santa, have some Humble Bundle Steam keys for Insurgency.
Thanks, Desty!

Here's some more keys!

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?


Thanks man!

Ratpick
Oct 9, 2012

And no one ate dinner that night.

Galaga Galaxian posted:

This is cool and you are cool. Yes, infect the younger generation with our ways. :getin:

Thanks. The first game of Happy Birthday, Robot! went really smoothly. It was fun seeing how these kids instantly took to the idea of writing a story about a robot named Robot, even though the resultant story ended up being a bit on the short side and somewhat nonsensical. That didn't matter though, because the kids clearly loved it. My project for the rest of the week is to make printouts of the story for the group with room for them to do their own illustrations, so they can all show them to their folks.

For next week I'll probably get started on the Fairy Tale Adventures thing, and I'm cooking up a simpler version of DW appropriate for running whimsical adventures in a world that works on Saturday morning cartoon logic. I'm thinking four stats, Brave, Cunning, Friendly and Magical, one move per stat (although I'll probably keep the moves hidden from the kids and focus on "Tell me what you want to do, I'll tell you what to roll") and try to veer them towards nonviolent problem-solving. I'm probably going to use my original idea of "The tooth fairy has gone missing and rampant tooth decay is running wild in the kingdom!" as the initial scenario, but I could definitely use more ideas.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

Sounds like someone needs to read Terry Pratchett's Hogfather.

Scar those kids for life. :getin:

Ratpick
Oct 9, 2012

And no one ate dinner that night.

Siivola posted:

Sounds like someone needs to read Terry Pratchett's Hogfather.

Scar those kids for life. :getin:

Oh, I have (edit: read the Hogfather, not scarred the kids for life). I just want to keep this sort of kid-friendly, partly because I don't want to deal with all the calls from angry parents.

I was, however, thinking of a scenario where the kids would have to take over for Santa, because the old man's just called in sick for the first time in hundreds of years. Probably closer to the Holidays.

Ettin
Oct 2, 2010

Meinberg posted:

G+ is really the biggest social network used by TT gamers, in part because of how the technology allows for games to be played. However, being the biggest social network also means you have to deal with assholes and jerks and the worst of the worst. Still, if you focus on the good stuff, it can be a good place, I just recommend caution.

I always found G+ to be really hit and miss. Most of the major communities/dev feeds are either echo chambers or full of assholes nobody bans because it "stimulates discussion". Or that one dude I had to mute because I know he's a pedophile and he posted to the RPG groups I'm in dozens of times a day.

One time a dude got banned from RPGnet for posting that a Holocaust denier was his favourite historian and he "warned" people not to go there in a libertarian G+ group though, that was hilarious.

Dr. Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Evil Mastermind posted:

Boston, MA on March 6-8

Holy poo poo they're already almost sold out. :psyduck:
I am more amazed that for the first time ever they are not ACTUALLY sold out by the time I hear about them. Not that I can buy tickets with my work computer, though, so they may as well be sold out. :(

I will just convince myself that PAX is not really that cool

Forums Terrorist
Dec 8, 2011

Dickwolves.

There, done.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Are there any good PbPs you would recommend in the subforum to just read? I've tried a few to try and get a feel for the format but the first couple of pages are usually just sign-ups and char sheets.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Forums Terrorist posted:

Dickwolves.

There, done.

It's been nearly a year since Krahulik's New Year's resolution and I haven't heard of any more PR disasters out of Penny Arcade. I wouldn't fault anybody for not wanting to support them, but I wouldn't blame anybody for going at this point, either. Hopefully all that nonsense will remain in the past.

Rockopolis
Dec 21, 2012

I MAKE FUN OF QUEER STORYGAMES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH MY LIFE THAN MAKE OTHER PEOPLE CRY

I can't understand these kinds of games, and not getting it bugs me almost as much as me being weird
How much of this is from RPG's roots as a more narrowly focused adaptation of Wargaming? That the tradions come from moving blocks of soldiers as much as they do from teling stories.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



Alien Rope Burn posted:

It's been nearly a year since Krahulik's New Year's resolution and I haven't heard of any more PR disasters out of Penny Arcade.

I attribute this mostly to not hearing much of anything out of PA lately.

But if you really want to talk yourself out of PAX, remind yourself it's primarily a video game expo. Save your money and vacation days for Origins or Gencon. Or a few cool local cons if you're lucky!

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
Alternately: do you like long, grueling lines, waiting up to two hours in advance for big events, and watching people draw nothing but penises in Pictochat?

If so, you will love the poo poo out of PAX! :v:

Baron Snow
Feb 8, 2007


Ratpick posted:

Thanks. The first game of Happy Birthday, Robot! went really smoothly. It was fun seeing how these kids instantly took to the idea of writing a story about a robot named Robot, even though the resultant story ended up being a bit on the short side and somewhat nonsensical. That didn't matter though, because the kids clearly loved it. My project for the rest of the week is to make printouts of the story for the group with room for them to do their own illustrations, so they can all show them to their folks.

For next week I'll probably get started on the Fairy Tale Adventures thing, and I'm cooking up a simpler version of DW appropriate for running whimsical adventures in a world that works on Saturday morning cartoon logic. I'm thinking four stats, Brave, Cunning, Friendly and Magical, one move per stat (although I'll probably keep the moves hidden from the kids and focus on "Tell me what you want to do, I'll tell you what to roll") and try to veer them towards nonviolent problem-solving. I'm probably going to use my original idea of "The tooth fairy has gone missing and rampant tooth decay is running wild in the kingdom!" as the initial scenario, but I could definitely use more ideas.

Have you looked at Golden Sky Stories for insipration?

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Alternately: do you like long, grueling lines, waiting up to two hours in advance for big events, and watching people draw nothing but penises in Pictochat?

If so, you will love the poo poo out of PAX! :v:

That's pretty much why I stick to the Tabletop area. It's been improving over the past few years, but it's still mostly focused on board games over RPGs. And the huge-rear end lines are pretty much relegated to the main videogame floor.


Although at GoD last year we had so many people who wanted to play DW we had to turn people away because we didn't have enough GMs. Meanwhile, the "play 5e now!" area was barely half-full.

Dr. Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Rockopolis posted:

How much of this is from RPG's roots as a more narrowly focused adaptation of Wargaming? That the tradions come from moving blocks of soldiers as much as they do from teling stories.
Wait what are you responding to here?

Regardless literally every single person in this subforum (except the poker weirdos) should read Jon Peterson's "Playing at the World" because it is a goddamn masterwork. Also would be the least interesting book ever for someone interested in neither tabletop gaming nor the people involved in its development since ~1790 (the people who evolved Parcheesi and Chess before that point do not really get much biography fortunately/unfortunately).

Finally seeing all the connecting threads from basic military wargames to Dungeons & Dragons was such an amazing experience. Particularly when you see how the original Dungeons & Dragons itself was mocked by the grognards for being dumbed down for babbys and not being nearly verisimilitudinous enough :haw:


Edit: Also thank you, reminding me about the lines at PAX helped discourage me. As did reminding me that the owners were terrible people, even though there is a chance they actually "get it" now.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Evil Mastermind posted:

That's pretty much why I stick to the Tabletop area. It's been improving over the past few years, but it's still mostly focused on board games over RPGs. And the huge-rear end lines are pretty much relegated to the main videogame floor.

Yeah. Honestly, some of the lines are worth it- like, waiting two hours 1for a whole night of concerts is worth it in my estimation.

There is a lot of fun to be have but there are also caveats, to be sure.

Zurui
Apr 20, 2005
Even now...



PAX really turns me off because of the scramble for passes. I had fun the year I went, but not that much fun. It's like some sort of Burning Man for nerds.

Dr. Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA
Burning Man sells out, too? drat man, I am not sure what I would do if Gen-Con started being able to sell out. Probably still go anyway and refuse to accept my fate.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Yeah. Honestly, some of the lines are worth it- like, waiting two hours 1for a whole night of concerts is worth it in my estimation.

There is a lot of fun to be have but there are also caveats, to be sure.

Well, that's any con, really. I didn't have the greatest time the one time I went to GenCon because of a sort of opposite problem: I couldn't find anything to really do. Admittedly this was before GoD was really a thing and I was there solo anyway.

Zurui posted:

PAX really turns me off because of the scramble for passes. I had fun the year I went, but not that much fun. It's like some sort of Burning Man for nerds.

Well, in the New England area there's not a lot of options. I live in RI and there's no real good game stores anywhere, and the only big "game convention" is more focused on steampunk culture and Warmahordes. PAX East is the biggest con in this part of the country.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Quarex posted:

Burning Man sells out, too? drat man, I am not sure what I would do if Gen-Con started being able to sell out. Probably still go anyway and refuse to accept my fate.

With Gencon and Origins, what's likely to sell out is hotel rooms, I don't think they have much in occupancy limits.

I don't really know Gencon, mind, but with Origins there definitely is a mad rush of game signups in the first, like, hour after they become available.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Well, GenCon is also spread out over multiple buildings (unlike PAX, which is entirely in the Boston Convention Center) so occupancy isn't as much of a concern.

e: You know what, this shouldn't be in this thread. Sorry.

Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Nov 13, 2014

DocBubonic
Mar 11, 2003

Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur in illis

gradenko_2000 posted:

Are there any good PbPs you would recommend in the subforum to just read? I've tried a few to try and get a feel for the format but the first couple of pages are usually just sign-ups and char sheets.

Just from what you said, it seems like you're reading recruitment threads and not game threads. Most game threads should be more accessible. Also what kind of game would you want to read?

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



The thing of it is that the PA guys have kinda always been assholes. Dickwolves was just the first time that there was enough pushback to force an appology and the pretense of personal growth.

They're corporate shills doing what they're best at. And that's not going well because nobody is paying attention to them anymore.

Did they even say boo about gamergate?

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

moths posted:

The thing of it is that the PA guys have kinda always been assholes. Dickwolves was just the first time that there was enough pushback to force an appology and the pretense of personal growth.

They're corporate shills doing what they're best at. And that's not going well because nobody is paying attention to them anymore.

Did they even say boo about gamergate?
Jerry (Tycho) poked his head up and took a bold stand on death threats (he's against them - no matter who is making them!) but otherwise AFAIK they've kept radio silence on the matter.

Libertad!
Oct 30, 2013

You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

Ettin posted:

One time a dude got banned from RPGnet for posting that a Holocaust denier was his favourite historian and he "warned" people not to go there in a libertarian G+ group though, that was hilarious.

Oh I can imagine the conversation now.

:ghitler: "The Nazis were just misunderstood, guys! They were liberty-loving small government advocates all along!"

I know that this kind of bullshit is a problem in Libertarian circles, but it still weirds me out every time I see it because if there's any legacy which better represents the nightmarish excesses of Big Government, it would be the Third Reich.

Libertad! fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Nov 13, 2014

Zurui
Apr 20, 2005
Even now...



FMguru posted:

Jerry (Tycho) poked his head up and took a bold stand on death threats (he's against them - no matter who is making them!) but otherwise AFAIK they've kept radio silence on the matter.

To be fair, even the slightest brush with Gamergate is pretty much a PR disaster no matter how you do it.

But remember folks, it's about ethics in game journalism.

Libertad! posted:

Oh I can imagine the conversation now: "The Nazis were just misunderstood, guys! They were liberty-loving small government advocates all along!"

I know that this kind of bullshit is a problem in Libertarian circles, but it still weirds me out every time I see it because if there's any government which represents the nightmarish excesses of Big Government, it would be the Third Reich.

Libertarianism is fascism at heart. Libertarians want their absolute view of the universe to be enforced as a modern-day divine rational right of kings the people. "Anarcho-capitalism" as they describe it is pretty much just White Guys Win.

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

DocBubonic posted:

Just from what you said, it seems like you're reading recruitment threads and not game threads. Most game threads should be more accessible. Also what kind of game would you want to read?

The big name ones: Dungeon World, 13th Age, DND 4E. Intuitively 4E would seem be really suited for the format because of its fiddly turns but very well defined mechanics and emphasis on combat, while I'm also interested in how DW would play out on the other end of the spectrum.

And yes it may well be I'm just not clicking on the right threads at all.

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