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I think as long as we realize that the first few armor losses are going to be replaced by twenty more Shermans we can ride out the morale shock it will cause, especially if they get knocked out before firing a shot.
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Nov 7, 2014 18:52
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Keep also in mind that you practically never see the casualties you cause directly. You have to take it on faith that your shots cause casualties. As long as you know you're in a good position you're doing good.
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Nov 7, 2014 18:57
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About the first place I'd put an AT gun as the Germans on this would be looking down the road to the southwest - it's a narrow, long field of fire covering several bottlenecks between the bocage rows, must be crossed for lateral movement by the Americans and represents the fastest way to the crossroads.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:00
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Generation Internet posted:Alright, current priority is filling 'E' Company HQ and 'E' Company 1st Platoon. I can step up as provisional E co. commander if nobody else volunteers. I've signed up for the 1st Platoon slot.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:06
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Fell Fire posted:I've signed up for the 1st Platoon slot. Perfect, that fills out 'E' Company. It looks like a few of our infantry goons are still MIA, so I'll wait before handing out any commands. That said, if any 'E' company platoon commanders want to command the company say so in the thread and sign up on the OOB. We're now missing one tank in 2nd platoon with most of our tank commanders accounted for. Hopefully someone new will show up to take it, but otherwise a 2nd platoon commander can control 2 tanks or someone from 1st platoon can take 2/Sherman 4 until their real unit turns up.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:18
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Perestroika posted:Edit: Since it looked like it was helpful for real-time discussion the last time around, I've taken the liberty of creating a roll20 room with the maps and stuff. Join here: https://app.roll20.net/join/576523/fk4jNQ Quoting this for a new page, just so people know it exists.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:22
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Generation Internet posted:We're now missing one tank in 2nd platoon with most of our tank commanders accounted for. Hopefully someone new will show up to take it, but otherwise a 2nd platoon commander can control 2 tanks or someone from 1st platoon can take 2/Sherman 4 until their real unit turns up. I want tanks to pair up within the platoons. I'll use 2nd platoon as example only; you can form the pairs however you think works best. Platoon commander: Magni Pair 1: Soup Inspector and Jeoh Pair 2: Comstar and ??? Both tanks in pair work towards the same goal. If you are ordered to kill a Tiger, both tanks will come up and target it. If you are to pull back, neither will stay behind. Cover each other. Protect each other. One is the left hand, one is the right, both holding the same chainsaw. If, say, Soup Inspector were to suddenly stop posting Jeoh would give orders to fill in. Since your two tanks should always be playing towards the same immediate goal, no one knows the goal or can give orders better than the other guy in the pair. Magni is the commander of the platoon. As such, he is a reserve tank and will assist either pair as he sees fit. Both pairs will give him feedback and he will escalate it up if his own tank can't add enough firepower to solve the situation. Why pair up like this? Too often armor isn't coordinated enough. If you read the last CM:RT thread, the Soviet game fell apart because tanks came out piecemeal. I want a robust system where everyone knows immediately when they have to fill in for someone without asking permission first. Why feedback? We have a lot of very smart people in our team. It is stupid to only work from top to bottom. I want the insights from bottom to flow back up. While I will try to read each and every message with due diligence, the simple fact of the matter is that your company commander likely knows the situation you face better than I do. That's why I ask you talk to him and if necessary, he distills the situation up to me. I trust the people in my team and I want you to work out the solutions to the problems we face. I'm only here to hand out tasks on a very crude level. I need your help.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:34
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I'll note that on the OOB. Would you like to pay any special attention to our two 76mm equipped Shermans?
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Nov 7, 2014 19:45
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Can the Germans put mines in the no-deployed-units zone? Are any holes they blow in the hedges already there or will they have to do so once the game begins? Is the topo map in feet or metres? What's the scale on it? How much LOS does the bocage disrupt? Enough for infantry to walk/run in complete cover? Seems like it would be best to partner up my platoon with a tank or pair of them, at least to get in position at game start. Riding tanks is possible, yes? Anything north of the forest A-D8 seems really vulnerable to fire coming from across the valley.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:45
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Jaguars! posted:I don't think there'll be a problem with sharing this since it was in the neutral thread prior to the start of the round. I'll post it in the other thread too. The contour scale is in the bottom left and right corners for both feet and meters.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:47
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Generation Internet posted:I'll note that on the OOB. Would you like to pay any special attention to our two 76mm equipped Shermans? Platoons can work out the details of pairing. Whatever works best for them.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:47
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I would like to say that pairing up tanks is definitely a good idea in my opinion - it forces the enemy to split their fire, whereas (assuming we target the same thing) we can concentrate fire against a singular enemy and achieve their destruction more quickly. It also allows us to perform a "bounding overwatch" in tank form - that is, one tank moves, whilst the other provides overwatch. The first tank then stops and provides overwatch, whilst the second tank advances. This provides security on the move. Make no mistake, we will take losses, but it doesn't matter if we lose one tank out of a pair if the survivor manages to knock out the enemy regardless. And we can afford to take more losses than the Germans. One thing I feel we should avoid doing is sending units in piecemeal; that is, if we can concentrate our units (and hence our firepower), we should do so. This would allow us to achieve the same thing as the tank buddy system on a larger scale - it forces the Germans to dilute their firepower and risk being overwhelmed, whilst we can deliver overwhelming firepower. It also allows us to leverage our superior numbers. Thoughts?
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Nov 7, 2014 19:52
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Soup Inspector posted:Thoughts? Agreed on every point. If we can trade 1 to 1 we are almost guaranteed to win. I would like everyone to read this: http://www.wargaming.co/rules/dunnkempf/articles/whyrussiantactics.htm Due to certain limitations we face in this format, we will try to keep our tactics simple, Soviet-style. Our enemy is more likely to micromanage hard, US-style. Pay special attention to sub-headings concentration, close to contact and morale. It will help you understand the large picture and the sort of tactics we will employ. Decoy Badger posted:Seems like it would be best to partner up my platoon with a tank or pair of them, at least to get in position at game start. Riding tanks is possible, yes? Yes, but we won't do it. You can deploy practically on top of Germans if both sides deploy aggressively. Remember the first rule of firefights? And even if they deploy more conservatively, infantry will be busy scouting. That's not something you can do when riding a vehicle. Hob_Gadling fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 19:58
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Okay, I divided our tank platoons into teams, denoted by colour codes. I think this might be a good system for the platoon commanders to use so they can effectively coordinate their pairs without confusion. For example: Ice CO: Blue platoon, advance on that building. Blue CO: Blue 1, provide over-watch, Blue 2, advance slowly. This may be too complicated and micro-manage-y, but it's an idea so that everyone knows where they're supposed to be at all times. code:Generation Internet fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 20:14
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Generation Internet posted:Again, mostly for the benefit of the platoon-level commander so we don't have four separate 'team 1' orders being thrown around. Thoughts? Looks fine. It should be the opposite of micromanage-y: just think of the smallest maneuver unit as a pair. Task to tank platoon leaders: Review tank pairings and change them if you think it is necessary. You are responsible for knowing how your tanks are paired and how you can best use them. This may be significant in platoons with both 75mm and 76mm armed Shermans. Mark the new pairs into the excel if you make changes. Once you're assigned a company leader, give him a quick message on how your tanks are paired so he knows it too.
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Nov 7, 2014 20:25
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Hob_Gadling posted:Agreed on every point. If we can trade 1 to 1 we are almost guaranteed to win. Funnily enough, it was Soviet tactics I had in mind whilst writing that post. Generation Internet posted:Again, mostly for the benefit of the platoon-level commander so we don't have four separate 'team 1' orders being thrown around. Thoughts? Looks nice and memorable to my eyes. Just checked the OOB - all I need now is a witty custom orders banner. "Deep Purple", anyone?  I also feel I should mention this now: I'm in the GMT time zone and I can only get to a computer very late on wednesdays and thursdays - so depending on Abongination's time zone I might struggle to get orders in on a 24 hour time limit. What should I do?
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Nov 7, 2014 20:29
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I like the idea of splitting tanks up into teams, but I think I'm going to modify it somewhat in First Platoon's case-instead of having a pair of 2-tank teams and my HQ tank by its lonesome, I'm going to keep the other 76mm Sherman with me and put the rest of the Platoon into a 3-tank team. I don't know how likely it is that the Germans are going to have armor support, but in the case that they do I'd prefer to keep my best AT assets close at hand in a more flexible formation, and keep them shielded just behind the frontline until we get positive armor contacts.
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Nov 7, 2014 20:41
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I like the idea of splitting tanks up into teams, but I think I'm going to modify it somewhat in First Platoon's case-instead of having a pair of 2-tank teams and my HQ tank by its lonesome, I'm going to keep the other 76mm Sherman with me and put the rest of the Platoon into a 3-tank team. I don't know how likely it is that the Germans are going to have armor support, but in the case that they do I'd prefer to keep my best AT assets close at hand in a more flexible formation, and keep them shielded just behind the frontline until we get positive armor contacts. That's exactly what I was thinking for the special case of 1st platoon, it seems like the most reasonable division. I'm thinking I might edit my second post to have our OOB as well as current orders and casualties so we can keep ourselves and Abong up to date. Soup Inspector posted:I also feel I should mention this now: I'm in the GMT time zone and I can only get to a computer very late on wednesdays and thursdays - so depending on Abongination's time zone I might struggle to get orders in on a 24 hour time limit. What should I do? I feel like this is important to know. If people want to post what time-zone they're in on goon section of the spreadsheet, it would probably be helpful so that we can tell who's MIA and who's sleeping.
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Nov 7, 2014 20:52
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I'm so confused by the system you have here, but I think I can claim a 1st wave tank. I can also command some small support element, like a jeep or something.
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Nov 7, 2014 21:00
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Welcome to my platoon, eigenstate. You're paired up with Comstar's Sherman for now.  I think my current pairings (Purple 1 and 2) are okay as they stand. On a more general note, let's not rush this too hard. We've got a lot of time to develop a plan and carry out our attack and we will keep getting reinforcements until Turn 25, so there's absolutely no reason for us to not take it slow for the time being. Until at least Wave 3, we should be aiming to mostly just scout a bit and set up a forward position from which to launch our full advance.
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Nov 7, 2014 21:16
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Perestroika posted:9) The briefing mentions a reinforced infantry company, so IIRC that'll probably be in the neighbourhood of 150-200 dudes. They should have plenty of machine guns and organic panzerschrecks/fausts. AT-guns aren't usually organic to a company, but given the defensive situation they're in we should probably expect them. Perhaps a tank or two who got attached to them. Since they've had time to dig in, they might also have foxholes/pillboxes and maybe mines. This quote reminds me that I think it might also be profitable to figure out what our priority targets are for infantry, armour, and support units. That is, which types of units should we prioritise for destruction? The reason I say "types of" rather than just "units" is because we simply don't know what the Germans will bring to the table, and so it's simpler to define categories of units. For what it's worth, I imagine that the German defence will rely a fair bit on supporting fire (artillery, mortars, etc.) due to their lack of numbers. Hence, if we can disrupt their ability to use it by targeting their forward observers and the actual batteries themselves, we've just made their life a lot harder. Does that sound workable?
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Nov 7, 2014 21:17
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eigenstate posted:I'm so confused by the system you have here, but I think I can claim a 1st wave tank. I can also command some small support element, like a jeep or something. Just imagine the buddy system, except in this case your buddy weighs 30 tons and was made by Chrysler 
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Nov 7, 2014 21:26
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According to the spreadsheet, we're still missing 3 infantry commanders: vuk83 (also listed as tank commander), Woodchip, and ableian. Chunky Monkey is our only missing support player, and Readingaccount is our missing tank player. The positions that need to be filled soon are E company command and 1st pioneer section. I think it would make sense for one person to take the entire pioneer platoon, since all the other infantry commands are about that large. Soup Inspector posted:This quote reminds me that I think it might also be profitable to figure out what our priority targets are for infantry, armour, and support units. That is, which types of units should we prioritise for destruction? The reason I say "types of" rather than just "units" is because we simply don't know what the Germans will bring to the table, and so it's simpler to define categories of units. If we can actually identify the FOs, I agree that they should be a priority. Other than that, I think we should focus on killing any AT guns and tanks they have, since they're not likely to have many. If we can eliminate their long range AT early then our tanks will be relatively free to operate within ~200m of enemy positions in support of infantry. Generation Internet fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 21:55
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I signed up for "F" Company, currently first platoon thereof. I might actually have a couple hours of free time this weekend, and if I do I'll try and do some runs on the map and get some sense of the lay of the land, no promises that anything insightful comes from it. If we need more people early I can switch, but I have no real issue waiting, and in this scenario I suspect we're going to have massive early casualties. I don't have the experience with large scale infantry combat to volunteer for company command yet, I'm afraid, especially for early turns before I get more experience with the game. If you want I can XO it up with one of the earlier waves, or something. Velius fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 21:56
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So from the video, our D company 2nd platoon looks like this: HQ tank - M4A3(75W) early 1st tank - M4 Sherman late 2nd tank - M4A3(75W) early 3rd tank - M4 Sherman mid 4th tank - M4A3(75W) mid Apparently A3 version has a 500hp engine instead of 400hp, so the game gives it one more "bar" in the power metric, a bit better frontal armor protection and wet ammo storage. None of them compare favorably to the Panther, much less the Tiger.
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Nov 7, 2014 22:01
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eigenstate posted:So from the video, our D company 2nd platoon looks like this: Okay. One of the things we need to have is an effort post on are the capabilities of the various tanks and infantry equipment we have versus the Germans. We need to assume they're going to have a very limited amount of armor, but it will be superior to ours, and the same holds true with regard to their infantry. We can assume our guys will be green or inexperienced, while theirs will be veterans. We absolutely need to make sure everyone is aware of what our men can do and what they can't. Anti-MG, anti-AT and anti-tank tactics need to be discussed, along with basics like how to advance troops under fire. I'm not experienced enough to offer much, but we have folks who are plus the posts from the other threads.
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Nov 7, 2014 22:37
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eigenstate posted:So from the video, our D company 2nd platoon looks like this: Hence the importance of preserving our limited AT capabilities in 1st platoon. That or we try and recreate the best scene from Fury. Out of the remaining infantry commanders, I'm not sure if we have anyone who'd be willing to step up to command the battalion. I think I may end up asking for one of the infantry platoon commanders to take on the company in addition to their platoon. I'll repost Hob's job description of both for visibility. quote:- 2 BN commander writes orders for infantry support weapons platoon. He also looks over the infantry part of this fight and coordinates with me or inf co commanders as necessary. In addition he takes over the whole shebang if I stop posting. I would like an old hand at this task if available. Again, I'll take on anything left vacant once everyone has checked in. e: In terms of capabilities I think our infantry is fairly well rounded. Each platoon has 1 bazooka and a few AT grenades, and each squad has a BAR. It will be very important for platoon commanders to know where their bazookas are. Our tanks are all fairly similar, M4s with short 75s for the most part which are excellent at infantry support and have a killer HE shell. They leave something to be desired in the AT department, however, and we'll have to be extra vigilant about not walking into panzerschrecks and panzerfausts. Generation Internet fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 22:39
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Reporting for duty. I could take 2nd F or a Sherman pair if that's ok.
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Nov 7, 2014 23:21
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The 75mm Shermans are still perfectly capable of messing up Panzer IVs and StuGs and can crack Tigers and Panthers from the side or stun their crews through repeated hits. They also have very good HE capability to dig out guns and infantry with. With how many we have, infantry commanders shouldn't hesitate to ask us tankers to remove pesky machinegun positions or suppress enemy infantry.
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Nov 7, 2014 23:25
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Magni posted:The 75mm Shermans are still perfectly capable of messing up Panzer IVs and StuGs and can crack Tigers and Panthers from the side or stun their crews through repeated hits. They also have very good HE capability to dig out guns and infantry with. With how many we have, infantry commanders shouldn't hesitate to ask us tankers to remove pesky machinegun positions or suppress enemy infantry. Yeah, in a way our deluge of Shermans can make up for our lack of heavy artillery. If there's a solid suspicion that there are enemy dudes in a particular building/position, just lob a few HE shells in there juto make sure.
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Nov 8, 2014 00:10
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What is our and the enemies deployment zones?? German defences as I would do them:  Black is ATG/Armour defence. Blue is Infantry. The Black boxes on the flanks in partcialur give them flanking shots. They have no reason to reveal themselves from that far back till we show our armour sides to them. The back ones would be Tigers/88's/Panthers that can get frontal hits. Blue infantry stays hidden till we get close and get under fire from the back placed ATG/Panzers.
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Nov 8, 2014 00:15
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Would a mortar barrage on the first village ASAP finish in time for the tanks to roll up? It's such a natural chokepoint (though open to fire from enemy territory) there must be something there.
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Nov 8, 2014 00:39
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I'm here! I signed up for support in the spreadsheet, but I can move around to another role if needed. Let me know where you need me, what I'll have command of, and who will be issuing orders to me.
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Nov 8, 2014 00:48
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Decoy Badger posted:Would a mortar barrage on the first village ASAP finish in time for the tanks to roll up? It's such a natural chokepoint (though open to fire from enemy territory) there must be something there. The problem is that we only have our organic mortars, and we get our first ones in the 2nd wave. So E company's mortars arrive after 5 minutes, set up for about ~2 minutes, and from that point on any fire mission we call will take ~7 minutes to arrive at about the 15th minute. We don't get any more mortars until the 30th minute and then again at 50 minutes, so the bulk of our indirect fire won't come into play until later. That said, E company's mortars could probably lay down a barrage that finishes just in time for our 3rd wave to arrive. I wouldn't rely on them for much, though, our tanks will be our most important support. Chunky Monkey posted:I'm here! I signed up for support in the spreadsheet, but I can move around to another role if needed. Let me know where you need me, what I'll have command of, and who will be issuing orders to me. Right now I think I'll put you down as our pioneer platon leader since we're not getting any more real support weapons until the 4th wave. This means that starting at the 5 minute mark, you'll be in command of the first Pioneer Squad, at the 15 minute mark, you'll have two pioneer squads and the HQ, and at the 30 minute mark you'll have the full platoon. At that point another weapons platoon will open up but I'm sure people will have shifted by then. Pioneers report directly to Battalion HQ, which is vacant right now. I'd also consider subordinating it to either E or F companies. I'm pretty sure the most important role pioneers play in CM is marking minefields and blowing holes through obstructions, but I could be wrong and I've never played BN. If you have other preferences let me know, and make sure to check out the spreadsheet!
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Nov 8, 2014 01:05
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For those that were wondering, my time zone is GMT+ 8 and the turns will be run in what is the mornings for me and the evenings for Dark_swordmaster. It is currently 9:20am, Saturday for me and 7:20pm Friday for DSM so I'm hoping around this time I'll be able to scout through all the threads and answer any questions / point out any missing orders before running the turn in an hour or two. One question: How does everyone feel about 24 hour turns? We can make them longer if people feel this deadline is to tight, will ask the same question in the other thread.
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Nov 8, 2014 02:23
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I think 48 hours is good. 1 day to check on the thread, discuss a bit, next day to post orders.
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Nov 8, 2014 02:47
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Yeah, I think only 24 hours is a bit short. 48 I think is just about the right amount of time needed to see an update, discuss it, and post orders. eigenstate posted:So from the video, our D company 2nd platoon looks like this: I'd honestly be surprised if the Germans have any Big Cats. The Germans aren't going to be able to compete points-wise, and taking such a points-expensive unit would likely be detrimental to their overall forces. If they have any armor, it'll likely be StuGs and Panzer IVs, which our Shermans are easily capable of dealing with. If we do run into heavy tanks or TDs, though, dealing with them is simple enough-fire smoke to block their LoS, manuver some tanks in close or to their sides, and take them out while they're repositioning. It's how the Allies dealt with the Big Cats in '44, and it's a tactic that'll serve us well here, though unfortunately I don't think the game models the WP setting the Panther's engine on fire
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Nov 8, 2014 03:30
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Im ready for anything. Just slot me in anywhere. How long do we have before the first turn. We need a plan,that is better than we make it up as we go. And we need a battalion commander that commands, instead of directing. That way lies defeat.
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Nov 8, 2014 03:37
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I will take E Company HQ command, if we cannot find anyone else for it. 48 hours would be better. Between work and sleep, there are easily 20+ hour stretches where I can't reliably be available.
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Nov 8, 2014 03:46
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The first turn will be announced once I see that both factions have their poo poo together and are ready to roll out. There is some great planning going on in both threads at the moment. General consensus seems to be that 48 hour turns are the way to go, I'm a little concerned that that will mean two months of game time if the battle is fairly even and we play out the entire thing but hopefully we can retain enough players to keep it interesting.
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Nov 8, 2014 03:47
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