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Pewdiepie posted:[Internet moderator voice]: Guys, can we please move this discussion to IRC? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 15, 2014 05:30
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pentyne posted:Racism isn't really the biggest issue with this series, it's pretty much non-existent except for rare occasions where heroic Japanese Man is better then other nations and the weird "Black people!? It's the US because only they have black Spec Ops!" "It's not racist except for those times it was totally racist"
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Dec 15, 2014 05:33
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Yinlock posted:"It's not racist except for those times it was totally racist" Gonna play devil's advocate here, but I can't say that I've ever seen a black special forces soldier from Russia, China, Korea, or Israel, who would presumably be the major non-American powers they would be concerned with. It's about as racist as the Steven Spielberg's exclusion of black soldiers at the Normandy landing in Saving Private Ryan.
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Dec 15, 2014 06:10
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The scenario itself is ludicrous because it portrays the other countries as weird thieves who are out to steal the visitors in order to enter into negotiations with Pina, which makes no sense because Japan is required by international law to not interfere with diplomatic meetings and their presence in Japan isn't a secret (they were on live TV). America doesn't need to send the SF, nor does anyone else, they can send loving interns out of their embassies if they want and Japan's not allowed to stop them.
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Dec 15, 2014 06:28
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The fact that Japan, a member of the apparently non-existent U.N., is allowed to declare such a major location their territory and everyone else has to slink around the sidelines makes no sense. Realistically there would be a multi-national cooperative sent through the gate. Edit: That being said, the premise doesn't bother me just the execution at times.
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Dec 15, 2014 07:19
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Brought To You By posted:The fact that Japan, a member of the apparently non-existent U.N., is allowed to declare such a major location their territory and everyone else has to slink around the sidelines makes no sense. Realistically there would be a multi-national cooperative sent through the gate.
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Dec 15, 2014 08:55
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The author thinking that we are still living in a world where countries (other than the US and Russia) have this kind of sovereignty over their lands does not surprise me at all. International cooperation of for dirty hippie politicians who hate the glorious JSDF anyways.
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Dec 15, 2014 11:06
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Paracelsus posted:Are there gates in other countries? If the only gate is in Japan and they're interested enough in maintaining control that they won't let other militaries into their territory in our world, then we enter into that area of international law where people openly ignore their bi/multi-lateral agreements and play the "if you really want it so bad, why don't you try to invade us?" card. The only gate is in Japan. Normally, what would happen is that Japan's allies would ask to be part of the expedition. If Japan said no then they would "ask" again, and then Japan would say yes. The end.
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Dec 15, 2014 12:03
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Paracelsus posted:Are there gates in other countries? If the only gate is in Japan and they're interested enough in maintaining control that they won't let other militaries into their territory in our world, then we enter into that area of international law where people openly ignore their bi/multi-lateral agreements and play the "if you really want it so bad, why don't you try to invade us?" card. I'm not too familiar with international law, but I know that a few time in the past the U.N. has created inspection teams to enter into member nations for weapon inspections and such. I figure that with an event as huge as having a portal to another world appear on earth, and the fact that Japan is a member of the U.N. there would be no way in hell only they would be allowed to go through to the other side regardless of whose territory it appeared on. The only countries I could see actually being able to keep everyone else out are ironically China, the US, Russia, and maybe North Korea. Since the big three are major powers in the U.N. with veto power and North Korea is crazy.
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Dec 15, 2014 15:43
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Real hosed up that the tanks vs dragons manga doesn't confirm to modern day international law.
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Dec 15, 2014 16:31
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Rather, it would probably have been better if they didn't even bother to include the international dramatics in the first place. Just ignore it or handwave it, no one is going to really care.
Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Dec 15, 2014 16:49
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Yeah. If a Japanese writer wants only the JSDF to get involved in Fantasy Peace Keeping Operation, I am willing to just roll with it. But when you have spec ops teams from two (or three?) other countries simultaneously attack the same resort in order to kidnap your foreign dignitaries, then you are just asking for it.
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Dec 15, 2014 16:56
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Political intrigue is more interesting than watching low fantasy forces get repeatedly trashed. But if you know nothing about politics, you shouldn't try to write about it. That's the bottom line.
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Dec 15, 2014 17:03
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Rodyle posted:Political intrigue is more interesting than watching low fantasy forces get repeatedly trashed. 
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Dec 15, 2014 20:35
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At this point I'm pretty convinced you're getting sexual satisfaction on making GBS threads on far from terrible manga. A form of coprophilia, if you will.
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Dec 15, 2014 20:52
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Jackard posted:Speak for yourself
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Dec 15, 2014 20:58
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KaneTW posted:At this point I'm pretty convinced you're getting sexual satisfaction on making GBS threads on far from terrible manga. You really picked the wrong battleground to start accusing people of what they derive sexual satisfaction. KaneTW posted:I didn't find her bad at all. It's like, yeah, she's child bodied but she doesn't behave or even is a child. "Yeah, but even though she's shown as physically a child she acts like an adult so I'm cool with it"
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Dec 16, 2014 01:55
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pentyne posted:You really picked the wrong battleground to start accusing people of what they derive sexual satisfaction. Where exactly did I say I want to bone Rory? Stop putting words in my mouth. Also jesus gently caress your sense of humor is totally loving broken if you thought I seriously meant the sexual satisfaction part. It's something people call a joke you dimwit.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:06
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Darth Walrus posted:It's not that bad in and of itself (especially when compared to the other crap brought up in this thread), but it's primarily about twelve-year-old girls, several of who are lesbians. The fanbase can get predictably weird and unpleasant. People complain about anime avatar havers on SA but I'd rather have a single anime avatar haver than the worthless mutants with Gunnerkrigg Court avs who are a hundred percent kiddy fiddlers.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:57
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:People complain about anime avatar havers on SA but I'd rather have a single anime avatar haver than the worthless mutants with Gunnerkrigg Court avs who are a hundred percent kiddy fiddlers. Some of us were given Gunnerkrigg Court avatars by someone for posting in the JoJo thread. Don't lump us in with those guys. 
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Dec 16, 2014 05:37
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I remember when this manga (and it's preceding LN series) started to make the rounds on /a/, as well as on baka-tsuki, SpaceBattles,. Beast's Lair, and other forums a couple years back, the latter two where I believe Rodyle first came across this series. Watching him become incredibly disillusioned with the series as it goes on on the Beat's Lair thread, alogn with everyone else, is pretty much one of the reasons i keep following this manga. Everyone who I've seen talk about the series in those forums says that this has a decent concept ruined by terrible right wing JAPAN STRONK nationalism, political screeds, and ham handed writing by the author. And going off of the fact that those elements were toned down for a wider release from his web original novels does not fill me with any more confidence. I mostly continue to read the series since I want to see where the trainwreck goes from here. Alarm bells started going off more heavily once the whole JSDF party plus protagonist's harem goes to testify in front of the Diet chapter happened, especially with that particular female Diet member who was attacking the plucky JSDF for not protecting all the civilians from a dragon attack. Though I guess there were warning signs prior to that, especially concerning Rory Mercury, the aforementioned 900+ year old loli demigoddess, and he tendency to get aroused when she's near people being killed. And then right afterwards is the aforementioned hot spring chapter, with American, Chinese, and Russian Special Forces running into each other in an attempt to capture the diplomatic delegation from across the Gate in order to conduct their own negotiations with them. Of course, the Japanese security detachment at the resort (inexplicably given codenames referencing Servant classes from the Fate series) manages to fight off a majority of them, leading to the much lambasted line about only the US having black men as agents. The survivors of the three groups run into each other, only to be slaughtered by the aforementioned loli demigoddess, who was previously attempting to seduce the otaku Ranger JSDF protagonist, who inexplicably personally knows the Japanese Minister of Defense because both of them are otaku who meet up at Comiket... There's some decent political stuff that goes on the other side of the Gate, but again, it's all pretty ham handed. Princess Pina Colada can be an interesting character, if only to show how different mindsets are. However, the whole thing with her brother, the rear end in a top hat prince, and him keeping that captured Japanese woman as a slave was pretty terribly handled, only serving to show the difference in worldviews regarding civilians, and allowing the female sergeant of the JSDF group the opportunity to beat up the prince physically in retaliation, after killing all of his bodyguards using her bayoneted rifle in melee (against trained swordsmen, apparently she's been trained in some sort of martial arts involving use of the bayonet?) and only shooting them after they tried to swarm her down , followed by the JASDF using F4 Phantoms to drop a 2000-lb bomb through the window of the Imperial Senate building to demonstrate how powerful they are in a dickwaving contest. And then there's the whole thing with the prince's primary slave, the former bunny girl queen, attempting to assassinate the that released Japanese slave in order to provoke the JSDF into destroying the empire which enslaved her and her people, albeit totally misinterpreting the political situation in trying to do so. Sure, the military stuff tends to be one sided as all hell, but with how poorly the political stuff tends to be written, I almost prefer the military stuff, since it's at least somewhat interesting to see. The whole thing with the JSDF using the otaku protagonist setting out with a small squad (with a wink and a nod from the higher ups) to respond to a dragon attack (which they are partially responsible for, as they blew off one of it's arms using a Panzerfaust 3 as it attacked the big titted elf's village, sending the thing into a rampage across the countryside) as a pretense to move an army through the Empire and survey for oil at the same time as retrieving him was interesting, but then it all bogged down once they reached the dark elf village the dragon is attacking since the elf that brought them there insists on sleeping with the otaku protagonist as the village has nothing with which pay him with for taking out the dragon except the body of the elf in question... pentyne posted:It's pretty bad when the most understandable thing going on in a fantasy meets modern world series is that a huge titted elf girl has terrible PTSD and they spend chapters on planning to cure her.
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Dec 16, 2014 06:29
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GhostStalker posted:[...] and allowing the female sergeant of the JSDF group the opportunity to beat up the prince physically in retaliation, after killing all of his bodyguards using her bayoneted rifle in melee (against trained swordsmen, apparently she's been trained in some sort of martial arts involving use of the bayonet?) and only shooting them after they tried to swarm her down Are you implying that this was not in fact one of the coolest scenes in the series and one of the few reasons I am still trudging through this fetid morass of a manga?
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Dec 16, 2014 11:28
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Rexides posted:Are you implying that this was not in fact one of the coolest scenes in the series and one of the few reasons I am still trudging through this fetid morass of a manga? I'm saying that there's no way she should've been able to do that, especially since bayonet drill is not something any modern army trains in, and she was going against trained swordsmen. Sure, they might've just been bully boy bodyguards for the prince, but you would expect his retinue to have some training in repelling a woman attacking them in melee. If she'd just shot them all straight up with her rifle, I would have no problem with the scene.
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Dec 16, 2014 20:36
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Rexides posted:Are you implying that this was not in fact one of the coolest scenes in the series and one of the few reasons I am still trudging through this fetid morass of a manga? Steel bayonet+modern military training to fight symmetric and asymmetric warfare vs. a bunch of dudes used to fighting in shield and spear formation and/or simply cutting down arrogant peasants? She only kills 3 of them with the knife, all were unarmored and likely expecting no challenge, especially from a woman, then jumps back and simply guns down the rest. Fun as hell to see, unlikely for sure, but definitely not some insanely impossible anime fight. GhostStalker posted:I'm saying that there's no way she should've been able to do that, especially since bayonet drill is not something any modern army trains in, and she was going against trained swordsmen. Sure, they might've just been bully boy bodyguards for the prince, but you would expect his retinue to have some training in repelling a woman attacking them in melee. If she'd just shot them all straight up with her rifle, I would have no problem with the scene. It was portrayed as one of those "only one person attacks at a time" like you always see in movies, so she can easily outmaneuver each person because no one is attacking her sides or back. Even someone with a M16 would get killed if rushed in close quarters by 6+ unarmed people only a few meters away. Right after that the actual Imperial Guards form up ranks around them and would certainly be able to kill them instantly until the Emperor calls them off. But then again, complaining about super-soldier huge tits JDSF woman doing the unlikely/impossible is kind of the wrong thing to complain about as far as this series goes. pentyne fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 20:38
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jwang posted:... someone just wrote in whatever sounded coolest in the bubbles. That probably would have worked out better, kind of like how Darth and Droids made the Star Wars prequels much more bearable. Thank you for introducing me to Darth and Droids comics of the Star Wars prequels. This has been the only good thing to come out of reading any of this dumb JSDF comic.
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Dec 18, 2014 05:50
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Is there any Japanese military fiction that at least rises to Clancy level? Or is it all John Ringo tier stuff?
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Dec 18, 2014 18:49
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P-Mack posted:Is there any Japanese military fiction that at least rises to Clancy level? Or is it all John Ringo tier stuff? Try Patlabor 2 which is a lot better than anything Clancy wrote.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:53
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P-Mack posted:Is there any Japanese military fiction that at least rises to Clancy level? Or is it all John Ringo tier stuff? For a long time in anime whenever war/fighting was a major part of a series is was usually portrayed as unglamorous and universally destructive, lone soldiers fighting impossible odds, bad things happen, etc. The move to "rah rah great noble Japan will crush all enemies" is relatively recent as far as popular series go. Things like Mahouka where magical Japan is spoiling for a fight with China and everyone else would never have been made in the 80s because no one would've bought it in large quantities. It's probably a cultural shift thing, the market for current anime/VN/LN/manga in Japan is divided between mass market consumption, things like WSJ, shounen anime series, etc and on the other side its weird otaku nutjobs who will spend thousands and thousands of dollars individually on their favorite series. Japanese Blu-ray releases only include 2 episodes because someone in the sales/marketing department realized that they could just charge $60 for two episodes rather then four episodes, because the people who were going to spend that $60 on four will do the exact same for the two episode disc. So they lose maybe 40% of sales but make 50% more over the sale of 2 blu-rays. These otaku buying up in such large volumes and at such a huge expense have dictated how the market responds. The Japanese Billboard 100 equivalent is just dozens of idol groups because said otakus buy hundreds or thousands of CD's for the handshake coupons/bonuses and then just throw the actual disc away. I saw an article from a Japanese cultural critic (something along those lines) where they decried the current state of Japanese music culture and pointed out how many foreign music artists/styles are really popular in Japan but Japanese pop music is only popular in Japan.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:30
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pentyne posted:For a long time in anime whenever war/fighting was a major part of a series is was usually portrayed as unglamorous and universally destructive, lone soldiers fighting impossible odds, bad things happen, etc. The move to "rah rah great noble Japan will crush all enemies" is relatively recent as far as popular series go. Things like Mahouka where magical Japan is spoiling for a fight with China and everyone else would never have been made in the 80s because no one would've bought it in large quantities. I'm usually among the first to distinguish otaku culture from Japanese culture in general, but let's not pretend the political attitudes involved only exist among otaku. Look at the Prime Minister.
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Dec 18, 2014 20:50
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Nah, he is just trying to secure the critical otaku vote.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:06
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Butt Frosted Cake posted:Try Patlabor 2 which is a lot better than anything Clancy wrote. No lie. The Patlabor series is the best mecha series ever.
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Dec 19, 2014 01:48
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Congratulations
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Dec 19, 2014 04:48
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well gently caress
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Dec 19, 2014 05:10
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If it follows the pattern then the racism/nationalism will be even further reduced.
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Dec 19, 2014 05:23
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Still won't stop it from being an absolutely terrible story for anyone that's not part of the target demographic.
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Dec 19, 2014 05:52
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jwang posted:Still won't stop it from being an absolutely terrible story for anyone that's not part of the target demographic. When has that ever stopped anyone from making an anime series?
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Dec 19, 2014 06:10
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pentyne posted:If it follows the pattern then the racism/nationalism will be even further reduced.
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Dec 19, 2014 06:23
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Jackard posted:Things like modern military attacking a dragon will be cooler, and things like Rory Mercury will be even worse. Can't wait to see how they handle the Nanking denial and the whole "only country with black men amongst their agents is America" without the internet blowing up about it even more then they are now.
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Dec 19, 2014 06:24
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Awesome
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Dec 19, 2014 06:34
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pentyne posted:If it follows the pattern then the racism/nationalism will be even further reduced. I honestly have a little shred of hope, because the actual concept is pretty fun. They just need to ignore all of the parts of the manga that take place on the Japan side of the gate.
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Dec 19, 2014 07:28
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