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The weird thing about the Nisha call is that she consistently says that Adnan and Jay were at the Video Store which he didn't even work at yet. Thats weird, and she's never said anything different. Agreed about the Chris saying he heard the murder was at the Library. Thats insane and how could that have not come up in the trail? It fits the alibi and discounts it
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Nov 14, 2014 02:21
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Wanna get the best proof that Serial is a hit? It has already inspired terrible think pieces: http://www.theawl.com/2014/11/serial-and-white-reporter-privilege I see some of the points the author makes, but overall I get the feeling that the author keeps listening just to get to complain about it.
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Nov 14, 2014 02:50
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Pron on VHS posted:Here's why I think Adnan is involved in the murder, regardless of the level of Jay's involvement: Regarding the cell phone -- my understanding is that the prosecutors cited only four of the fourteen calls in their evidence; only the 'pings' that wound support the timeline being presented. Pings outside the parameters of the timeline (or contrary to the timeline) weren't presented. At one point, Adnan mentions that the only cell tower pings used were ones that were incriminating, and then the other 75% were dismissed/not included. I think that cell phone tower pings are pretty regularly called out as being unreliable. The ABA had a little article on it here, if you feel like nerding out.
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Nov 14, 2014 03:29
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My friends and I came up with a parody, and got Mail Crimp to sponsor: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/podracers-podcast/podracers/e/episode-24-serial-35971302?autoplay=true
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Nov 14, 2014 05:31
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Combed Thunderclap posted:It is also living proof why the court of public opinion should never under any circumstances be allowed anywhere near the judicial system, which, unbelievably crappy as it is, is sometimes not collectively insane. The most basic legal rules and protections mean absolutely nothing to the vast majority of people there. Absolutely. I read a bit of true crime literature and occassionally venture into forums where people discuss it ... if they were running the legal system, the prisons would be overflowing and many innocent people would dangling from the end of a rope. Have just listened to the latest episode. Welp, I have no idea what happened that day. He supposedly strangled her in a carpark? That sounds like the work of a complete psycho. nonathlon fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 10:32
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I'm kind of pissed that it got us this long to get to 'who the gently caress is Jay', because it definitely pushed me much closer to the 'well maybe Adnan did it' line, and really changed the way I look at the whole thing. But it wouldn't have been as exciting, so that's good planning by Koening, I guess. I've tried going to the Reddit subreddit, and it is is pretty much everything I hate about that site. We pretty clearly don't have all the info, so it's probably not worth it to sperg out like crazy. bollig fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 19:46
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bollig posted:I've tried going to the Reddit subreddit, and it is is pretty much everything I hate about that site. We pretty clearly don't have all the info, so it's probably not worth it to sperg out like crazy. The subreddit, while suffering from typical Reddit problems that may or may not bother people to certain degrees, does have some handy resources that I haven't found anywhere else. For example, the sidebar has transcripts of all the episodes that one of the moderators wrote up, in case you want to look something up real quick and don't want to re-listen to the entire episode. Seeing stuff written down helps too, for example I didn't know that the Hot Fries that Hae bought at the concession stand were actually just a kind of regional potato chip and not, in fact, actual french fries.
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Nov 14, 2014 20:01
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The Serial subreddit is atrocious. If you think a five post derail on mail kimp is bad there is at least one multi-thread post about it each week. I was bouncing back and forth on if I thought Adnan did it or not, but as we get further along it starts to seem more apparent that he had at least some part on it. Its almost as if he thinks he can get the conviction thrown out because maybe the narrative and police timeline are completely wrong and no where near what actually happened with all the changes to the story and circumstantial evidence that doesn't match up. I don't think we will ever see any kind of smoking gun or twist in the story before the season ends.
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Nov 14, 2014 21:42
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Finished catching up with this, it's kind of ridiculous how much my opinion has shifted since episode 1. Adnan is clearly implicated in some way. Jay is clearly implicated in some way. It's kind of frustrating because it seems like Adnan is withholding some part of the events that day. Like maybe Jay was worried Hae was going to rat him out to his girlfriend about some other girl he was seeing or something. But then ep. 8 makes Jay out to be pretty blameless in the whole thing. And yeah, Adnan's lawyer comes across as incompetent and annoying in all the courtroom tapes that have been played. Even though I'm pretty sure Adnan is guilty of SOMETHING, he might not have gotten a life sentence with a different defender. In any case, I'm terribly interested in this thing now, more so than I thought I would. I doubt there will be a totally satisfying conclusion, but I'm hoping for the best. Not even that they find something that exonerates Adnan, just some kind of ending. One thing I didn't quite get was the significance of The Nisha Call. I might not have been listening closely or something. Koenig kept reinforcing that this was the thing that was the most troubling w/r/t Adnan's innocence.
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Nov 14, 2014 22:19
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apophenium posted:
The Nisha call directly refutes Adnan's story. It puts Adnan with his phone at a time when Adnan said he did not have his phone and was at the library. Adnan said Jay had his phone until 5 or so I think, but Jay didn't know Nisha and wouldn't have placed a two minute call to her unless it was a butt dial.
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Nov 14, 2014 22:30
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apophenium posted:
Because supposedly that call was made when Adnan was a track practice and Jay had his phone. Plus Jay did no know Nisha so why would he call her?
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Nov 14, 2014 22:30
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Jay seems cool as hell. Would love people to say I was Rodmanesque
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Nov 14, 2014 22:33
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Jay seems pretty cool except for the whole 'probably an accomplice to a murder' thing.
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Nov 14, 2014 22:39
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AndrewP posted:The Nisha call directly refutes Adnan's story. It puts Adnan with his phone at a time when Adnan said he did not have his phone and was at the library. Adnan said Jay had his phone until 5 or so I think, but Jay didn't know Nisha and wouldn't have placed a two minute call to her unless it was a butt dial. Continuing off of this, it also possibly places Jay and Adnan together at the time of the call, if Jay's story about talking to Nisha for a few minutes is true. The problem is that Nisha distinctly remembers them talking about a porn store that Jay worked at, a job he didn't even start until a few weeks after the murder. Incidentally, does anyone remember exactly what time Hae was supposed to pick up her cousin? When she failed to show up, that's when people first noticed she was missing, so that's probably the latest she could have been killed, but I can't remember the exact time. ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 22:53
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ninjahedgehog posted:Continuing off of this, it also possibly places Jay and Adnan together at the time of the call, if Jay's story about talking to Nisha for a few minutes is true. The problem is that Nisha distinctly remembers them talking about a porn store that Jay worked at, a job he didn't even start until a few weeks after the murder. That last bit is strange, but Nisha misremembering one detail of the call seems more likely than it being a crazy coincidence and it not actually happening.
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Nov 14, 2014 22:58
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AndrewP posted:That last bit is strange, but Nisha misremembering one detail of the call seems more likely than it being a crazy coincidence and it not actually happening. I'm inclined to think this too. It's entirely possible that she's thinking of a later call that Jay and Adnan might have made together. In fact, an Adnan-is-innocent narrative requires a hell of a lot of coincidences like that, like Adnan coincidentally not have a strong alibi and Jay being stupid enough to frame him without knowing that.
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Nov 14, 2014 23:05
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Jay's manager may have even flubbed his start date or something. This was before 9/11 and the push to e-Verify your employees immediately before/after hiring.
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Nov 15, 2014 00:30
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I know its probably a dumb reason for thinking someone is guilty but probably the thing that bothers me the most about Adnan is the really long awkward silences followed by a lame excuse whenever Sarah hits him with a really tough question. This happens whenever a really big flaw is pointed out in his narrative. The Nisha call, the fact he made zero attempt to contact Hae after her disappearance, his weird hesitance about Sarah finally getting in contact with Asia, the kathy story, etc.
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Nov 15, 2014 09:56
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Bulkiest Toaster posted:the fact he made zero attempt to contact Hae after her disappearance Adnan gives a reasonable explanation for this: he was involved with the people who were bombarding her phone with calls and texts and saw no reason to send messages himself. He was hearing first hand that someone was sending a message or trying to call and was there with them during the attempts. bedpan fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 01:38
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http://www.avclub.com/article/theres-serial-parody-and-its-pretty-drat-funny-211811 Serial Parody
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Nov 16, 2014 03:01
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bedpan posted:He was involved with the people who were bombarding her phone with calls and texts and saw no reason to send messages himself. He was hearing first hand that someone was sending a message or trying to call and was there with them during the attempts. Not really? When he got the call from the police he was with Jay, Cathy, and her boyfriend, none of which (except possibly Jay) knew Hae at all. http://serialpodcast.org/maps/cell-phone-call-log None of his calls after the cops (6:24) are to anyone who would be worried about Hae, ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 03:08
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ninjahedgehog posted:Not really? When he got the call from the police he was with Jay, Cathy, and her boyfriend, none of which (except possibly Jay) knew Hae at all. As I recall Adnan was later around people who were aware of Hae's disappearance and they were all desperately trying to contact Hae. Before that though, that he didn't call immediately after he was informed through the police call is no evidence against him. If it is, then you are reaching for everything he is doing as being suspicious, an easy thing to do though if you look at his actions through the lens of his conviction. Did the police tell Adnan that people had tried to contact her? Did he simply assume as much? Was it an oversight on his part not to call his ex girlfriend? Did he think that if he did call, would she even answer? If he had called what would that prove? You could just as easily twist it around and say, 'here he is trying to look innocent and concerned! He would have to know the police and her family have already tried to call her!" bedpan fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 03:29
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I am now convinced Adnan did it. The version of the story Jay told his friend Chris just is so much more fitting with the time frame and the other accounts. I don't know why Jay wouldn't tell that version to the detectives but look at this: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Woodlawn+High+School/@39.315679,-76.7349077,814m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x85b3ba12388bec93 That's a map of Woodlawn High School. You can see the adjacent library branch. It has it's own parking lot and everything. You can even see the buses blocking the only exit out of the school parking lot. Here's what I think happened: Adnan approached Hae's car while she was waiting in the parking lot for the buses to clear. He asked her if she could drop him real quick at the library annex. That's how he got in her car. And the library annex is RIGHT THERE so Hae would have been like, yeah okay fine since it's not out of her way AT ALL and would hardly take any time away from her going to get her cousin. They go to the annex parking lot, Adnan picks a fight with there, maybe refusing to leave the car because he wanted to talk or whatever. He snaps, he strangles her, he goes into the library and BOOM the girl from episode 1 sees him there and talks to him. That's a lot easier to accomplish in 21 minutes. I love this podcast so much. Dear Prudence fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 07:49
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Dear Prudence posted:I am now convinced Adnan did it. The version of the story Jay told his friend Chris just is so much more fitting with the time frame and the other accounts. Chris' recollection is what pushed me from being a staunch "Free Adnan" person to seriously thinking Adnan may have done it. It seems to most cleanly square away the variables and inconsistencies of the other testimonies collected. Despite this personal crisis of innocence/guilt I'm experiencing, it's very clear the case and trial were a catastrophic clusterfuck (and it's scary that the detective said he thought the case was pretty good). The incompetence and failures of C Guiterrez are reason enough to have grave concerns about the case's outcome. I've read a lot of the files and am still not convinced whatsoever that there's enough evidence to demonstrate guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Hopefully SK revisits the Innocence Project team.
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Nov 16, 2014 08:14
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Dear Prudence posted:I am now convinced Adnan did it. The version of the story Jay told his friend Chris just is so much more fitting with the time frame and the other accounts. I don't know why Jay wouldn't tell that version to the detectives ... He had a vested interest in not being implicated in the crime. At this point the question is whether the main character of the podcast (Sarah Koenig) will realize this as well and the conclusion ends not with Adnan (or Jay, or anyone else) confessing or having his conviction overturned but with her acknowledging that he's probably not innocent. Her incredulity over 'bad evidence' and understanding how the case was constructed to have the best shot at conviction might be the first step on this road.
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Nov 16, 2014 08:18
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The case put together by the prosecution has so many holes and most of them are because of Jay. The story he told Chris and the story he told the detectives seems to be about similar in him being guilty of accomplice after the fact. Actually, the story with Chris is much more sympathetic because it really shows that he didn't say anything because he was scared for Stephanie and Adnan was threatening him. Much more sympathetic than his excuse for not coming forward before which is essentially "I don't like the police." But the narrative of the story he told the police is the one that is creating all these problems. I don't see why Chris should lie about what Jay said to him. I mean it's so completely different than what is known in the case that it's stupid to make up such an outright lie for no reason. Chris, as far as I would wager, has nothing to gain from lying about it. He isn't even friends with Jay anymore. Adnan isn't innocent at this point, one way or the other. There's no way. He has maintained he knows nothing but it's too coincidental that if Jay did this thing he creates this narrative that Adnan can't account for and Jay's just lucky that Adnan had no alibi. Too much coincidence.
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Nov 16, 2014 10:59
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God drat. This show is gonna turn me into a fatter way less badass version of Russ Cole.
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Nov 16, 2014 11:12
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Perhaps of interest: a collection of images from the Serial reddit. It has some useful maps and timelines: https://imgur.com/r/serialpodcast/
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Nov 16, 2014 11:19
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Dear Prudence posted:I am now convinced Adnan did it. The version of the story Jay told his friend Chris just is so much more fitting with the time frame and the other accounts. I don't know why Jay wouldn't tell that version to the detectives but look at this: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Woodlawn+High+School/@39.315679,-76.7349077,814m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x85b3ba12388bec93 I agree that it might fit more neatly into the established timelines, but people who live around or know that area (and the overhead map) all point toward that library parking lot being very, very exposed — probably too much so for an athletic young woman to get strangled in broad daylight (immediately after school, when there's a massive amount of traffic) without anybody noticing.
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Nov 16, 2014 16:12
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outlier posted:Perhaps of interest: a collection of images from the Serial reddit. It has some useful maps and timelines: I love the one of the murderous Mail Chimp. I guess they are the most excited about the success of Serial.
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Nov 16, 2014 17:11
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Combed Thunderclap posted:It's really fun to watch. I have a really hard time looking at the Serial subreddit (or reddit in general) because of the general lack of reading comprehension. A few weeks ago (when people were claiming Jay as a master criminal) I posted a story of a guy I knew growing up whose life had a similar trajectory, and explained the circumstances surrounding one of his arrests. People thought I was writing about Jay, and started messaging me asking for more details about him. I mean, really. Anyway Jay's family has been arrested a bunch of times, his father for selling drugs (non marijuana) three times later that year. So it's easy to be like OMG JAY = DRUG KINGPIN but it looks more like his dad was a low-level crack dealer. Cops don't charge people three times in four months and let them go unless they're insignificant low-level dealers busted with really small amounts. I think that Dear Prudence posted:I am now convinced Adnan did it. The version of the story Jay told his friend Chris just is so much more fitting with the time frame and the other accounts. I don't know why Jay wouldn't tell that version to the detectives but look at this: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Woodlawn+High+School/@39.315679,-76.7349077,814m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x85b3ba12388bec93 This fits in - the podcast makes the two places out to be a lot closer than they are. My intuition is that most of Jay's lies (where he was when Adnan called, where Adnan called from, where they went immediately afterwards) are meant to cover up some location he doesn't want to disclose. Jay's father, judging from his arrest record, was a street level crack or dope dealer. Not exactly a family of drug kingpins, but maybe they knew someone best kept out of this mess. And that's where Jay was when Adnan called. Who came to find him there. And showed him the body there. Given that assumption, that he doesn't want to say who he was with or where he was from 2-4pm that day, the rest of his story makes sense. But the cops didn't push him on it because they didn't think it was important. The way Jay refers to Adnan as "an ex-friend" in the police interview always seemed significant. Clearly they were buds and Jay helped Adnan with this thing, but six weeks later Adnan was acting weird and threatening him and when Jenn gets called in to talk the police, he's just like "gently caress this guy" and confesses. But maybe there's a third guy who's tangentially involved somehow that Jay doesn't want to rat out. If Adnan didn't do it then WHO DID.
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Nov 16, 2014 18:25
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Over on the subreddit, Hae's brother has chimed in to remind everyone that this is not, in fact, a fictional story. They've been shielding Hae's mother from any knowledge of the podcast or of the internet detectivery currently taking place.
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Nov 18, 2014 17:37
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Internet sleuths can be pretty ruthless. They tracked Jay down on Facebook and he made one last post saying something to the extant that Facebook isn't safe then locked down his profile.
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Nov 18, 2014 17:56
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Wait, people thought this was a fictional story?bad day posted:But maybe there's a third guy who's tangentially involved somehow that Jay doesn't want to rat out. If Adnan didn't do it then WHO DID. The more I ponder on this, I think Adnan probably did do it. And it was a crime of passion more than anything else. After everything that has been presented so far, Jay has no reason to kill Hae. Unless it was someone completely random/serial killer. Edit: Found this off the reddit: https://sites.google.com/site/chamgreensite/home/leakin-park-bodies/hae-lee-min I personally love the editorial comment at the bottom. It's also interesting to see how many other bodies were buried in the park. calandryll fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Nov 18, 2014 |
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Nov 18, 2014 18:03
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calandryll posted:Wait, people thought this was a fictional story?
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Nov 18, 2014 19:17
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Honestly the fact that this is a true story has made me feel a bit weird about all of this. I like the "true crime" investigative episodes of TAL a lot. But there's something that makes me uncomfortable with how the show has become somewhat part of the cultural zeitgeist in a Breaking Bad/True Detective "what will happen next!?" kind of way, given that it's based on the murder of an actual human being. I'm not saying it's wrong, I don't know what I think, other than it makes me feel weird.
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Nov 18, 2014 19:41
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Yeah, but honestly, Dateline and 20/20 do this every single week and are loving campy and unserious as hell about those cases. This just happens to be telling it over the course of weeks and is super popular. The idea of Redditors "getting involved" is a serious bummer, though.
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Nov 18, 2014 20:45
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AndrewP posted:The idea of Redditors "getting involved" is a serious bummer, though. Not entirely unsurprising, though.
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Nov 18, 2014 21:05
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AndrewP posted:The idea of Redditors "getting involved" is a serious bummer, though. Considering Reddits past history of involvement in this type of thing, it is only a matter of time before some loon starts calling Hae's family with death threats.
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Nov 18, 2014 21:22
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 06:36 |
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AndrewP posted:The idea of Redditors "getting involved" is a serious bummer, though. Don't forget that Reddit had already picked a Boston Bombing suspect before the FBI based on the fact that he was carrying a backpack in a couple of pictures from the finish line. The NY Post even printed the poor guys face all over the front page as fact and just about ruined his life. EDIT This sums that up quite well. http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-22214511 Geekslinger fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Nov 18, 2014 |
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Nov 18, 2014 21:44
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