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Apthous posted:I don't think it is appropriate in any court, civil or criminal, to suggest a 14 year old's sexual history lets the accused off the hook. This is not glorious Nippon where the 14 year old flow like wine and are all fully emotionally developed adults, this is the real world. Who is being let off what hook here, I honestly don't understand. The person who broke the law went to jail.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:39
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:Who is being let off what hook here, I honestly don't understand. The person who broke the law went to jail. The school system is being let off the hook in the civil case. I am not arguing the level of their responsibility, I am arguing about the inappropriateness of their choice of legal defense.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:41
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Apthous posted:I don't think it is appropriate in any court, civil or criminal, to suggest a 14 year old's sexual history lets the accused off the hook. This is not glorious Nippon where the 14 year olds flow like wine and are all fully emotionally developed adults, this is the real world.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:42
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Mercrom posted:What they did wasn't nice, but they basically used slander as self defense against slander, so it's hard to blame them. I don't think it is appropriate for a school system to use that type of legal defense in this situation. It would be inappropriate for an individual to use that type of defense, and it is severely inappropriate for a school system to use that type of defense in this situation.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:43
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Mercrom posted:What they did wasn't really right, but they basically used slander as self defense against slander, so it's hard to blame them. This is basically my point, more eloquently stated.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:43
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Death By Yogurt posted:how hot is the math teacher? how hot was she?
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Nov 14, 2014 16:45
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Apthous posted:The legal definition of non consensual is that a person either says no, or is in a state in which their ability to make a decision whether to do something or not is compromised. Ableist Kinkshamer posted:The school didn't break any laws, though. The rapist did, and is going to jail. They aren't defending against charges that they broke the law, they're defending against the accusation that they're responsible for it. If they have to use bullshit arguments to fend off a bullshit accusation, I'm kind of ok with it.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:46
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Apthous posted:I don't think it is appropriate for a school system to use that type of legal defense in this situation. It would be inappropriate for an individual to use that type of defense, and it is severely inappropriate for a school system to use that type of defense in this situation. They hired a law firm to defend them, whose job it is to do everything in their power to win the case. If appeals to the victim's sluttiness comprise an effective legal defense, I see no reason why they shouldn't use it. It's not really their fault that society at large finds those arguments compelling.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:47
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:This is basically my point, more eloquently stated. You honestly think it is appropriate for a school system to basically suggest a 14 year old is a slut and therefore should be let off the hook at least in part because of it? Ignoring the moral reprehensibility of that kind of legal defense, it is also legally inappropriate because 14 year olds basically cannot legally be "sluts", especially in this type of situation where there is a person of authority committing the crime. Again, I am not arguing that the school system is liable for the actions of its teacher, I am arguing about the inappropriateness of their legal defense in this situation. I actually probably would side with the school in the civil case against them because unless they knew this person was a pedophile, or could have easily found out then they are not really liable. However, claiming that a 14 year old is a whore in a court of law is just loving disgusting and probably unnecessary to actually win the case. Which makes me think they are piles of poo poo and just wanted to further victimize someone, or were so offended that someone dare question them in a court of law that the claws came out.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:48
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Could something awful forums user Tokaii weigh in on this?Apthous posted:You honestly think it is appropriate for a school system to basically suggest a 14 year old is a slut and therefore should be let off the hook at least in part because of it? Ignoring the moral reprehensibility of that kind of legal defense, it is also legally inappropriate because 14 year olds basically cannot legally be "sluts", especially in this type of situation where there is a person of authority committing the crime. If the lawyers didn't take steps to mitigate damages they would be lovely lawyers. It isn't really a moral thing as the judicial system is extramoral. Sometimes you just shorten it to amoral for space reasons.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:49
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The sex probably wasnt even good which is the real tragedy here. I don't know what you're arguing about "14 year olds cannot legally be 'sluts'" but it sounds like you should've went to high school
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Nov 14, 2014 16:50
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:They hired a law firm to defend them, whose job it is to do everything in their power to win the case. If appeals to the victim's sluttiness comprise an effective legal defense, I see no reason why they shouldn't use it. It's not really their fault that society at large finds those arguments compelling. They should be involved in the defense that their hired lawyers are using, and aware of the basic idea of what they will say in court. Again, this is not a private entity and should be held to a higher standard than an individual person. If indeed they were not involved in what defense their lawyers were using and just let them do their thing, then they should have at least offered an apology afterwords and there is no evidence that they did that at all.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:51
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The school system's lawyer came up with the defense. The lawyer has to do what he can to get his client off the hook. This is why people generally hate lawyers. Hth
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Nov 14, 2014 16:51
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what 14 year old girl didn't want to bang their hot teacher in middle school?
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Nov 14, 2014 16:52
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Leon Einstein posted:The school system's lawyer came up with the defense. The lawyer has to do what he can to get his client off the hook. This is why people generally hate lawyers. Hth Also, this.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:53
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Leon Einstein posted:The school system's lawyer came up with the defense. The lawyer has to do what he can to get his client off the hook. This is why people generally hate lawyers. Hth A school district should be more involved in what their lawyers say in a case like this than the average person would be.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:53
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teenager want sex? well i never.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:53
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I could see some middle school kid yelling "They're stealing our women!"  edit: Also the teacher is a pedophile. Wait for it... wait for it...
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Nov 14, 2014 16:54
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Apthous posted:Reasons why I will never respect academia case #87361652: lmao
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Nov 14, 2014 16:57
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Demonachizer posted:If the lawyers didn't take steps to mitigate damages they would be lovely lawyers. It isn't really a moral thing as the judicial system is extramoral. Sometimes you just shorten it to amoral for space reasons.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:57
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Apthous posted:A school district should be more involved in what their lawyers say in a case like this than the average person would be.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:58
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TOILETLORD posted:teenager want sex? well i never. Everyone's screaming slut shamming when maybe, just maybe, 14yos do dumb poo poo and the school isn't their God who can control their every action and that's what this really boils down to.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:59
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She was too young to consent but did actively pursue the relationship which is where he gets charged with rape and the school couldn't have really done much to prevent it. It doesn't really seem like the school is trying to label the student as a slut so much as it's saying that they shouldn't be held responsible for what she (and the teacher) willfully did off school grounds. I don't really see how that's unreasonable.
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Nov 14, 2014 16:59
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dat 5 year old wanted it. she rode her three wheeler all the way to the corner motel 6 i mean honestly 14 is 'gettin there' but no it doesnt make your pedo booty calls in the hotel ok math teacher
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Nov 14, 2014 16:59
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Leon Einstein posted:You are wrong. The school district's only priority was winning the case. The school district's priority should be educating kids and making sure they are not harmed in the process. Allowing their lawyers to call a 14 year old who was raped by one of their teachers a whore and then not apologizing afterwords is the complete antithesis of everything they should be about.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:00
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:I could see some middle school kid yelling "They're stealing our women!" *walks up to podium, taps microphone to make sure it's live* *clears throat* "ephebo- *gun shots*
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Nov 14, 2014 17:00
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Apthous posted:The school district's priority should be educating kids and making sure they are not harmed in the process. Allowing their lawyers to call a 14 year old who was raped by one of their teachers a whore and then not apologizing afterwords is the complete antithesis of everything they should be about. sorry the goal of american schools is to make money.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:01
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Apthous posted:The school district's priority should be educating kids and making sure they are not harmed in the process. Allowing their lawyers to call a 14 year old who was raped by one of their teachers a whore and then not apologizing afterwords is the complete antithesis of everything they should be about. This happened off school property, right? What could they have done? Also, losing millions in a lawsuit would cost them in insurance premiums and diminish the quality of education they provide. It's distasteful, but the school really shouldn't be on the hook.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:03
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Apthous posted:The school district's priority should be educating kids and making sure they are not harmed in the process. Allowing their lawyers to call a 14 year old who was raped by one of their teachers a whore and then not apologizing afterwords is the complete antithesis of everything they should be about.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:03
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Apthous posted:The school district's priority should be educating kids and making sure they are not harmed in the process. Allowing their lawyers to call a 14 year old who was raped by one of their teachers a whore and then not apologizing afterwords is the complete antithesis of everything they should be about.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:04
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Everyone knows that teens lack the ability to be responsible for their own actions. Then, on their 18th birthday, God flips a switch on their moral compass and they are instantly cognizant of right vs. wrong, making them all accountable for everything.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:05
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ghlbtsk posted:Everyone knows that teens lack the ability to be responsible for their own actions. Then, on their 18th birthday, God flips a switch on their moral compass and they are instantly cognizant of right vs. wrong, making them all accountable for everything.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:06
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When you're getting sued, any defence that wins you the case is an appropriate defence.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:07
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Leon Einstein posted:This happened off school property, right? What could they have done? Also, losing millions in a lawsuit would cost them in insurance premiums and diminish the quality of education they provide. Mercrom posted:You know, I agree. What they did is morally irresponsible. They should definitely not have done it. Suing the school doesn't seem right either, but two wrongs don't make a right. It's just hard to be outraged at anyone when everyone involved is being victimized in some way. I haven't been arguing about whether or not the school should be responsible, I actually don't think they should be unless they had reasonable suspicion to believe he was a pedophile. My problem is with the legal defense that they either allowed or didn't apologize about. Soarer posted:When you're getting sued, any defence that wins you the case is an appropriate defence. This was a public entity defending itself, not an individual person.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:08
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Apthous posted:I haven't been arguing about whether or not the school should be responsible, I actually don't think they should be unless they had reasonable suspicion to believe he was a pedophile. My problem is with the legal defense that they either allowed or didn't apologize about. an apology is an admission of guilt, never apologize for anything unless you get something in return.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:09
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Well I controlled f and searched for whore and slut in the article and came up empty. Unless they're using old timey slurs like strumpet then I think at no point did the lawyers call a 14 year old girl a slut. Instead it seems like Apthous just made the connection between "she willingly pursued a sexual relationship" and "she's a slut" and then projected their view on everyone else.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:10
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so what? future president hillary clinton slutshamed a 12 year old, this is perfectly legal and moral now
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Nov 14, 2014 17:10
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TOILETLORD posted:an apology is an admission of guilt, never apologize for anything unless you get something in return. Not an apology for the actions of the teacher or the actions of the school district during the event, but the legal defense used afterwords.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:10
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ghlbtsk posted:Everyone knows that teens lack the ability to be responsible for their own actions. Then, on their 18th birthday, God flips a switch on their moral compass and they are instantly cognizant of right vs. wrong, making them all accountable for everything. thanks be to god
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Nov 14, 2014 17:10
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Apthous posted:This was a public entity defending itself, not an individual person. I don't see the difference. Schools are already having financial issues all over the country. If they can save themselves paying out to this girl they will do it by any means necessary. Courts are where all the poo poo gets dredged up in an effort to win for either side. Just because its a school district getting sued doesn't change that.
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Nov 14, 2014 17:14
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