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"Non-Jews do not need to be resuscitated. Unarmed non-Jews can be shot on sight." - Master of Purity of Arms, the IDF http://972mag.com/idf-trainer-no-need-to-resuscitate-palestinians/99132/ Combine that with the recent executions of unarmed Palestinians, the relaxation on controls of firearms as well as incitement to use them and you've got a fireball in the making.
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Nov 24, 2014 06:32
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Kim Jong Il posted:Substitute in Netanyahu and Israel here and then read it back. Yes, we should all demand Palestinian civil society work on full LGBT rights whilst at the same time supporting an end to the continued illegal occupation. Of course, using this issue as a fig leaf or a diversion (*edit* as TIC is doing) from the critical issue of the occupation which dehumanises and removes rights from *all* Palestinians is just pinkwashing. Israel, shining beacon of democracy, could probably take the lead in respecting those right and instead of, say, exploiting Palestinian LGBT status to force LGBTs into very dangerous informant situations, offer them asylum. Or make LGBT right a stipulation in negotiations etc.
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Sep 29, 2015 07:52
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Depends on the organization whoever they accuse of having done this came from. If it's Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade or anything associated with Fatah, we can expect attacks on Palestinian Authority targets, and a dissolution of the security arrangements will now be blamed on this attack and not on the PA having nothing to show for years of collaboration. Can we expect more Palestinian children murdered at checkpoints in response? How about people shot dead at peaceful protests?
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Oct 2, 2015 09:28
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Absurd Alhazred posted:"[I]n response"? Since when did that require an original instigating event? Touché.
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Oct 2, 2015 10:16
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VitalSigns posted:Maybe someone could explain the background for me, but it sounds like she's saying Jews aren't allowed to worship in a mosque. That...doesn't seem strange to me? Are Israeli synagogues required to have Islamic services? And in any case she's clearly talking in religious definitions, not racial. She's talking about access for prayer.
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Oct 3, 2015 19:46
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The Insect Court posted:Antisemitism is generally considered to be a form of racism, Hong XiuQuan. No, antisemetism is racism. Saying that religious Jews should not be praying on the harm is not antisemitic - it's not a claim based on race but on religion. Here's the test - is she stating that Jews who have converted to Islam should not pray on the mount?
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Oct 3, 2015 21:27
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Kim Jong Il posted:It's racist because she's denying the established history of the site. What?
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Oct 3, 2015 22:57
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Xander77 posted:Huh. Reasonably sure that picture was taken at the Hebrew U. Wonder if he was a student there. Certainly not going to help the whole "shut up with your whiny left wing moralizing, all your Arab students are terrorists" angle (which, yeah, is heard quite often) Pretty sure at 1:07-1:09 in the second video you can hear someone shouting 'friend of the family dead' Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Oct 4, 2015 |
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Oct 4, 2015 22:57
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Kim Jong Il posted:Yes, desperate Likud pays lip service to the idiot Haredim and the superstitious children in Shas, and the other Modern Orthodox are pretty terrible in their own right. They all tend to be horrible about completely different things though. You've done nothing to address why you think it's racist to assert that religiously-defined Jews shouldn't have access to pray on Alharam Assharif.
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Oct 5, 2015 09:12
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Kim Jong Il posted:You're naive to think that this is a solely religious matter. They're attempting to permanently forbid visitors of a certain ethnicity. It's also racist to deny the Jewish history of the site. Again, do you think that she wants Jewish Muslims to be forbidden from praying there?
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Oct 5, 2015 15:15
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I think she and her party members have decided it's a brilliant idea to play Jr. Historical Revisionists and deny established archeological facts concerning the site, MK Zoabi's statements are somewhat ambiguous as she only goes as far as claiming that Jews have nothing to seek on top of the mount which can also be understood as an appeal to jewish rabbinical authority but given the statements of her fellow Balad party members Jamal Zahalka and Ahmed Tibi on the subject "There is no such thing as 'the temple mount' only the Al Aqsa mosque" I think it's a bit naive to deduce that her statements strictly refer to the jewish prohibition itself but rather continues the line her fellow party members have drawn. OK, these are fair opinions. I'm not sure anything you've said defends: Kim Jong Il posted:Hanin Zoabi remains a racist piece of poo poo Come to think about it, he hasn't pointed out past instances of racism either. You see, I get irked when you have unfounded accusations of racism (and being 'a piece of poo poo') directed against a politician who has suffered massive popular and institutional racism, restrictions on her speech, death threats etc because she represents an underrepresented and politically suppressed minority. Usually this is designed to divert away from her own experiences, the wider problems of occupation she's addressing and dismiss the problems she identifies out of hand. "Oh, Zoabi said that? She's just a racist piece of poo poo, let's not talk about it."
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Oct 5, 2015 17:41
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Kim Jong Il posted:That's right, and that's the same reason that Hamas hasn't changed its charter despite the enormous amount of credibility and damage it causes to them. That's why Arafat instigated the second intifada in 2000 using Sharon's visit to the mount as pretext, and why Abbas is doing the same now. They're instigating, and in all cases it's going to end really, really badly for all parties involved, but especially them. Sharon's visit to al-Haram ash-Sharif was pretty loving provocative. Israeli actions over the last decade have been pretty loving provocative. Far from instigating an intifada, Abbas has been doing everything possible to contain one for years.
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Oct 6, 2015 01:19
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Times of Israel posted:Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas ordered his security chiefs to do their utmost to urgently quell surging West Bank protests Saturday night. http://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-tells-pa-forces-to-urgently-quell-west-bank-protests/ Totally instigating another Intifada. Also Director in Chief of Pallywood.
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Oct 6, 2015 01:38
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The Insect Court posted:You're really gonna go with the "Nothing antisemitic about burning down a synagogue, because it's a religious institution and not an ethnic one" nonsense, huh? Or the terrorist attack on the kosher market in Paris. Not antisemitic because kosher is a religious requirement? I've gotten used to Well, where to start? Firstly, who was talking about killing Jewish people? Secondly, can you really not tell the difference between someone walking into a Jewish place of worship or a kosher supermarket and killing whoever they can find because they hate all Jews and someone stating that people who are religious Jews shouldn't be worshiping on X y z disputed holy spot? You can argue that it's retarded to try to prevent non-Muslims from praying there or that it's horrible policy. It's not racist. And it's certainly not 'kill Jews on site'. Now can you try to argue your point without suggesting that I'm providing cover for the murder of Jews in Europe? Cheers. Speaking of actual racist murder, no house demolitions or spate of arrests or press conferences in the wake of the lynching of the Palestinian teen in Jerusalem. What's good Israel?
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Oct 6, 2015 08:57
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"I don't hate blacks, I hate black culture so you can't call me racist" style special pleading from anti-Zionists, but this kind of blows past that.
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The Insect Court posted:What's this "all Jews" stuff? You said discrimination against Jews attempting to practice their faith can't be considered antisemitic, because it isn't targeting Jews based on the idea of Jewish ethnicity. If you're not going to back down from that absurd stance then bombing a synagogue isn't an antisemitic act because it's If England passed a law tomorrow mandating the stunning of animals followed by X method of slaughter, it would not be antisemitic. If England passed a law tomorrow stating that only Jews had to observe the new slaughtering rules, that would be antisemitic. If you can't understand the nuance then no wonder you see antisemites everywhere.
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Oct 6, 2015 09:49
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Baron Porkface posted:Of course it would be. Yes, you see an animal welfare law that happens to affect religious Jews and Muslims would be antisemitic because:
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Oct 6, 2015 13:13
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Harik posted:Of course it's not. Just like voting tests and poll taxes aren't racist, restrictions that just happen to ban kosher and Halial meat aren't anti-semitic. You can argue that it's strongly impeding religious freedoms but unless the state has a combination of laws and policies designed to make life tough or unbearable for Jewish people, reading that as antisemitic is wilfully stupid. Are you suggesting that Judaism and Jews are utterly inseparable?
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Oct 6, 2015 13:27
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Ultramega posted:gently caress everybody hoping for a 3rd intifada. Yay more loving internet posts to read while people get shot in the streets and tortured in shin bet torture cells. Palestinians have tried peaceful protest and dialogue. Hasn't worked. Protestors tend to get shot in the face. The first intifada led to Madrid and Oslo. The second Intifada was brought down by indiscriminate bombing of civilians. What can else can the Palestinians do? The status quo doesn't help them. Peaceful protests don't help them. Israel's busy trying to equate BDS with antisemitism though it's the biggest economic pressure put on Israel since Reagan. Violence tends to be unhelpful because of indiscriminate use. I don't think people here are praying for another intifada do they can get their jollies off on the internet but more because maybe more pressure on Israel can finally lead to real change.
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Oct 6, 2015 16:22
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fits my needs posted:Do Israelis even consider Palestinians to be people? Israeli leaders tend to call them crocodiles, cockroaches and beasts with two legs so...
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Oct 9, 2015 15:03
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Nobody will get punished for this btw, they are likely to receive commendations for their quick thinking and valor. idiocy. The leadership commended the point-blank of a boy by Israeli spies and instigators of violence. This must be worthy the equivalent of a medal of honour.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:27
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snyprmag posted:What do you mean by that? Do you think Palestinian demonstration and violence and the IDF and settlers is only because the later are Jewish? To add to that, do you not get that vibe when you read about Jewish mobs in Israel shouting 'Death to Arabs' while instigating Israeli police to kill Arabs? If not, it would be great if you could explain why you think that is.
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Oct 10, 2015 02:11
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I can't watch that video without thinking 'POGROM, POGROM, POGROM'.
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Oct 10, 2015 10:46
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Kim Jong Il posted:No, I'm referring to the people who verbatim sound like Cossacks getting ready to burn down a village. So, while you're back, can you please tell me what you think about Jewish mobs roaming streets in the occupied west bank and in Israel who chant 'death to Arabs', who have actually gone on beating rampages and have instigated people with weapons to shoot Arabs? Can you tell me what you think about the authorities of a state joining in to protect Jewish settlers while they burn down olive groves? Can you tell me what you think of Jewish perpetrators of violence rarely if ever getting caught and prosecuted, whether military or civilian? Can you tell me what you think about Israeli military or police disguising themselves as Palestinians, instigating stone-throwing and then shooting boys at point-blank range?
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Oct 10, 2015 10:51
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Friendly Tumour posted:You what? https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/video-israel-plants-armed-stone-throwers-among-palestinian-protesters And just for other references: Israeli soldiers protecting settlers: https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/charlotte-silver/video-israeli-soldiers-protect-settlers-they-attack-palestinians Death to Arabs - you should just search for the work of David Sheen: https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/palestinian-lives-dont-matter-us-media That's not even to mention the rhetoric from Israeli leaders. Deputy defence minister has just said Palestinians should be enslaved. Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Oct 10, 2015 |
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Oct 10, 2015 10:59
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Kim Jong Il posted:It sure would be great if this thread could learn that bad behavior on one side doesn't excuse bad behavior on the other. It's an important point that Palestinians don't seem to realize and/or care how their behavior and rhetoric will be interpreted in the west or Israel, which will exacerbate the eventual response. Glorifying murderers makes you a lot easier to demonize. You still haven't said whether or not you think 'POGROM, POGROM, POGROM' when Jewish mobs roam the streets of Jerusalem looking for Arabs to beat while chanting 'death to Arabs'. Please tell us why, if not.
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Oct 10, 2015 17:14
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Meanwhile 'Human-Hunting' in Jerusalem, in which extremist Jewish mobs roam the streets, chanting death to Arabs and asking people what time it is so they can see if they spot an Arab accent: http://www.ha-makom.co.il/post/hamaha-manhunt-english Seems like a lot of businesses have to be Arab-free or face repercussions.
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Oct 10, 2015 17:38
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emanresu tnuocca posted:So, after the shootings in Gaza yesterday and the clashes near the fence today (which had Gazans breaching the fence and the IDF killing two 13 year old kids) it seems like Hamas might have taken the bait as apparently several rockets were launched towards Ashdod and were intercepted. Well Gaza is still rubble. If they go in again there's not much left to destroy, it will be carnage. But if they do go in, I hope the IDF pays a very, very dear price. If Hamas could just focus on military targets, opprobrium would evaporate. Nothing shifts Israeli policy more towards peace than a soldier:civilian ratio stacked with soldiers (see 1982). If they just fire rockets willy nilly we'll just see the same cycle.
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Oct 10, 2015 21:34
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Kim Jong Il posted:As sickening as the NRP types are, mass glorification of violence doesn't happen nearly to the same scale. They're still a fringe group in the grand scheme of things, and meanwhile it's loving Fatah that's leading the charge in the latest round of violence. This is hilarious. You refuse to confirm that Jewish mobs rampaging through the streets demanding 'Death to Arabs' (a distinct minority) instigating and taking part in beatings and shootings, with the tacit support of the Israeli executive screams 'pogrom''; yet you'll leap happily apply hyperbole to a Palestinian funeral. Why do you think that is? Also, do try to answer the question this time, it's been put to you many times. Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Oct 11, 2015 |
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Oct 11, 2015 01:53
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Volkerball posted:Israeli strike in Zeitoun. A house collapsed. They're currently looking for a missing three year old child in the rubble.
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Oct 11, 2015 01:57
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Also, the claims that Abbas is directing this are hilarious. http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=768091 Maan posted:
Nobody in their right mind things Abbas wants this. He's a stooge.
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Oct 11, 2015 02:00
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Kim Jong Il posted:Then read my post history as I despise Netanyahu, Bennett and his ilk, Shas, and especially the Haredim. Due to the political leanings of this thread, there's a lot more anti-Israel discussion hence that's the part of the debate I'm usually responding to. If a pro-Israel poster says something dumb, they're jumped on instantly before I have a chance to respond. On other forums, I'm a dirty Lapidite that wants to hug Arabs. I think we can safely assume that you don't give a shy about Palestinian life. You've been offered the chance repeatedly over the last couple of pages to clarify whether you felt certain behaviours, based on your own observations of Palestinians, reminded you of pogroms. You've wilfully ignored them. The adverse inference here is that there's always something to mitigate Jewish Israeli behaviour and always something to make Palestinian behaviour seem far, far worse. That, to me, is racism. You are part of them problem.
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Oct 11, 2015 09:39
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Volkerball posted:she didn't make it. gently caress. That's just utterly awful. That poor family.
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Oct 11, 2015 09:41
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Volkerball posted:We have our first suicide bomb (attempt) since 2008. A woman drove through a police checkpoint and detonated a car bomb. "Lightly" wounded a police officer, and up til now she has survived, but it doesn't sound like she's in great shape, as you'd expect. Apparently might have been an accident http://m.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Pa..._medium=twitter <-- some at claiming failure of an airbag system.
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Oct 11, 2015 09:43
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Kim Jong Il posted:Nope, I responded to why I thought the analogy didn't work. For those of us with short memories, could you please point to where you've addressed the question: 'why don't Jewish mobs patrolling the streets of Jerusalem, chanting death to Arabs, inciting the beatings and deaths of Arabs, questioning people to see if they can spot Arab accents, leaving shopkeepers alone once they discover they're Hebrew only, all carried out with tacit executive support etc make you think POGROM, POGROM, POGROM?' Kim Jong Il posted:So you're inferring based on something I supposedly didn't say, and meanwhile there's a parade of posters who consistently apologize for Palestinian violence. So to recap, your imaginary fairytale offenses are racism when I haven't invoked race in any respect, the exact same behavior on the other side is not racism, and meanwhile Zoabi engaging in historical denialism is not racism either, got it. Yes an adverse inference is drawn when someone uses silence to evade questions. Can you please tell me where you've shown 'exact same behaviour' from the other side? Are Palestinians roaming the streets of Jerusalem demanding death to the Jews with impunity. Or is it the case that Palestinians who, say, stab Israeli Jewish civilians tend to be (rightly) arrested or, as is increasingly common, extrajudicially executed for even being suspected of wrongdoing?
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Oct 11, 2015 17:25
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Xander77 posted:Is anyone compiling the casualties on both sides in real time somewhere? Obviously both sides are pretending that they're the only ones taking damage (which, as an aside, is... kind of interesting. Still on a 19th century history kick, when the thing to do in a conflict was to pretend your casualties are minimal. Wonder if there's any good scholarly work on that particular evolution) so some neutral compendium would be nice. 'All sides are claiming they're the only ones taking damage.' Well, more people died in IDF mass shooting at the Gaza border than have been killed by random Palestinians with knives so I suppose you could exercise your faculties of judgment without needed an accurate biomass ratio of I:P. So, your misogynist snark aside for a moment, do you consider attacks on police and checkpoints as 'terror'?
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Oct 12, 2015 19:06
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Xander77 posted:Thank you for that extremely valuable contribution to the discussion at hand. Please change your avatar link, as the website is dead. You're welcome. Feel free to change it for me. I'd love it if you answered the question: do you consider Palestinian assaults on military/police to be acts of terror?
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Oct 12, 2015 21:39
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team overhead smash posted:I think the real decider might be how the Palestinians react to the shootings of protesters. Previously that escalated things and strengthened their desire to shake of the Israeli occupation but after two failed Intifada's which had differing tactics of public resistance and militant attacks both ending in failure, people might be less willing to carry on going out and risking getting shot if they don't think it will lead anywhere. Not sure why you call the first intifada a failure. It led to Madrid and Oslo. Wouldn't have happened without the first Intifada. You can argue that Oslo has been a failure (and rightly so) but there's a reason Arafat was let back in. The second intifada didn't achieve anything beyond this current status quo, factional rifts and a massacre every few years when Israeli elections loom. This time round it could be different, particularly as the increasingly fascistic Israel executive and legislature appear to be driving Palestinian-Israelis to despair.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:43
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Main Paineframe posted:I think calling this an "Intifada" misses a fundamental shift - the Israeli civilian reaction. Were Lehava gangs roaming the streets and assaulting lynching random Israeli Arabs on the street during the previous Intifadas? This isn't just a Palestinian uprising anymore, this is teetering dangerously close to a full-blown ethnic conflict. There weren't 300,000-500,000 illegal settlers in the West Bank during the first Intifada. There weren't Israeli politicians openly talking about how Arabs should be killed etc during the first Intifada. 'Break their bones'. So no, it's not quite the same circumstances but yes, it's probably still a popular uprising.
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Oct 13, 2015 01:23
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team overhead smash posted:If your view of a valid goal is there merely being peace conferences regardless of their efficacy then sure, but I don't see it that way. The outcome of Oslo has obviously been a manifest failure. That's not a failure of the first Intifada. That's a failure of Palestinian and Israeli political leadership since. You might not remember the excitement around the Madrid and Oslo negotiations on the part of Palestinians everywhere but I do. My father was present covering it and I can't remember him being more excited about a tremendous political moment (he was a 1967 refugee). The fact that afterwards Arafat returned and there was a measure of self-governance and hope were big wins - and I say this as someone who takes the Said stance (see Peace and Its Discontents). That the Intifada led to anything at all was a success *and it took six bloody years for it to happen*. Then of course we have Netanyahu, Sharon and Netanyahu again.
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Oct 13, 2015 01:35
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Three Israelis dead in Jersualem in two separate attacks , two were shot, one was run over. One of the perps was killed, another was arrested. The one in Qiryat Ata apparently Jewish guy stabbing a Jew he thought was Palestinian. I don't think he's been shot, beaten by a mob or had his house destroyed so he's definitely not been mistaken for a Palestinian.
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Oct 13, 2015 11:16
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