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The Protagonist
Jun 29, 2009

The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.
the lovely shift to focusing on micro was to make people who should be making small but nevertheless important decisions about how to properly orient a rifle feel like they could be big generals

sorry grunts, but you can't

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Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

I don't really play them, OP, but I've always assumed that all the micro in the world isn't going to beat someone who just knows how to counter you or whatever. But hey I might be wrong. But I doubt it.

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

You can have the best aim of all time but it probably won't win a ton of counterstrike or quake or whatever games for you against people who are a lot better at the general brain part. Farewell.

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

Hell do they even make games where the whole thing is about micro. What good is micro if you aren't macroing. OP, I think your a gigantic tool, and a idiot.

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

I think "what went wrong" here is folks like the OP don't have the patience, talent or capacity for learning subtler aspects of games that give them more depth, and just live high on the assumption that in a battle of "pure wits" they'd win every time, even though a game about that would probably be rear end. Why don't you join a debate club or the actual military as a commander or some game show, dipshit. gently caress off.

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

zen death robot posted:

Did you say "Farewell" and come back for more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNvzRnotGsY

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

zen death robot posted:

Did you say "Farewell" and come back for more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfa8iEuDwe4

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




i like laser squad nemesis' real time strat of combining both player's turn instructions into a turn after a bunch of rng rolls for grenade bounces and stuff. I also like super fast twitch rts games. OP maybe you hate a fun genre? go back and listen to "I am a mechanical man" on the first GDI map in CandC and maybe you'll come around.

THE PENETRATOR
Jul 27, 2014

by Lowtax
micro and macro hold equal importance... in wc3... the last rts

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
i legitimately dont understand what the op means

01011001
Dec 26, 2012

Wormskull posted:

Hell do they even make games where the whole thing is about micro.

yes

THE PENETRATOR
Jul 27, 2014

by Lowtax

Wormskull posted:

Hell do they even make games where the whole thing is about micro

it's easier

The Protagonist
Jun 29, 2009

The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.

Wormskull posted:

I think "what went wrong" here is folks like the OP don't have the patience, talent or capacity for learning subtler aspects of games that give them more depth, and just live high on the assumption that in a battle of "pure wits" they'd win every time, even though a game about that would probably be rear end. Why don't you join a debate club or the actual military as a commander or some game show, dipshit. gently caress off.

somebody sounds tender

is this subject close to home?

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009


How.

eSports Chaebol
Feb 22, 2005

Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

RTTs

Zoq-Fot-Pik
Jun 27, 2008

Frungy!
Can the OP name any examples, because I think he's making up what he's complaining about in his own head.

THE PENETRATOR
Jul 27, 2014

by Lowtax
terra battle, for example, has only micro, and is not even real time

01011001
Dec 26, 2012



yeah this. its a thing

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
dawn of war is the best rts

koolkal
Oct 21, 2008

this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs
whats even a recent rts besides sc2

i searched steam and the top 2 results are company of heroes 2 and rome total war 2

in conclusion based on scientific research i have determined the op is in fact dumb

The Protagonist
Jun 29, 2009

The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.
sc2 is simultanously when i became aware of the problem, stopped playing rtss, and rtss stopped being made

eSports Chaebol
Feb 22, 2005

Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

The Protagonist posted:

sc2 is simultanously when i became aware of the problem, stopped playing rtss, and rtss stopped being made

Hmm yes a game where you build a deathball is too micro focused

glowstick party tonight
Oct 4, 2003

by zen death robot
Pikmin is the best RTS

Falsum
May 10, 2013

Crazy for the Bros
Idgi, hasn't the RTS genre moved away from micro?

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe

That seems like a good movie.

sauer kraut
Oct 2, 2004
If you make an AI that goes beyond sending small waves while the player sits in base building his cool deathball, it becomes incredibly frustrating.

20 APM players don't like being told they suck balls, have no one to blame unlike in team based games, they don't learn. Ergo marginalized genre.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012

mdm posted:

Pikmin is the best RTS

Sombrerotron
Aug 1, 2004

Release my children! My hat is truly great and mighty.

koolkal posted:

whats even a recent rts besides sc2

i searched steam and the top 2 results are company of heroes 2 and rome total war 2

in conclusion based on scientific research i have determined the op is in fact dumb
planetary annihilation i guess

a friend of mine's got it and he thinks it's p. cool but not as cool as total annihilation was back in the day

Doctor Goat
Jan 22, 2005

Where does it hurt?

eSports Chaebol posted:

Hmm yes a game where you build a deathball is too micro focused

this is literally the only strategy, and the time before anyone can make a deathball is irrelevant, as are all choices of units

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
the problem with starcraft 2 is that the 'macro' is just following a checklist of what to build when at the exact second and maybe uhh scouting to see if they aer going to do an early rush or something. the thing i hate is that starcraft is fun if you play it like its supposed to be but then e-sports fags made it into this insane game where building your barracks a second late can be the difference between winning and losing. lol gently caress that.

puberty worked me over
May 20, 2013

by Cyrano4747
esports

like honestly people seem to take gaming way too seriously these days

sauer kraut posted:

20 APM players don't like being told they suck balls, have no one to blame unlike in team based games, they don't learn. Ergo marginalized genre.

It's like gamers suck and take games way too seriously and not really improve as a player. Like they get burnt out on learning a game. MOBAs are easy enough to pick up unlike memorizing combos or having split second reaction times like fighting games. That or learning build orders and having high APM like RTS games.

I'm curious to see what an RTS with an action delay would look like. Like only one unit action every second or something. The first step to making RTS more accessible/commercially successful is figuring out how to get the average gamer to be able to play it with some competence.

puberty worked me over fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Nov 22, 2014

Unexpected Raw Anime
Oct 9, 2012

Homeworld was released and the rest of the industry threw their hands up in surrender op

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

command and conquer came out and infected everyone with aids

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib
The rot really set in with Dune II.

The Taint Reaper
Sep 4, 2012

by Shine
MOBAS are like the false successor to the RTS throne. One day the true RTS king will return and slaughter the mobas and the e-sports.

But when will this happen and what RTS will do this is still unknown. But we keep hoping for that day to come. And as long as hope is alive the dream will never die.

That being said why hasn't anyone made Brutal Legend clones with refined gameplay. That was an interesting twist to the RTS genre. Make it like a Brutal Legend/Heroes of Might and Magic 2 Hybrid.

Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003
Fallen Rib

Larry Parrish posted:

the problem with starcraft 2 is that the 'macro' is just following a checklist of what to build when at the exact second and maybe uhh scouting to see if they aer going to do an early rush or something. the thing i hate is that starcraft is fun if you play it like its supposed to be but then e-sports fags made it into this insane game where building your barracks a second late can be the difference between winning and losing. lol gently caress that.

you sound bad at rts games

ur in my world now
Jun 5, 2006

Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was


Smellrose
what went wrong with RTS games is that they don't make AoE or RoN games anymore OP

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

tranime scholar posted:

what went wrong with RTS games is that they don't make AoE or RoN games anymore OP
It's weird because Rise of Nations still sells pretty well.

ur in my world now
Jun 5, 2006

Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was


Smellrose

FactsAreUseless posted:

It's weird because Rise of Nations still sells pretty well.

all of the HD remakes have sold pretty well afaik, i don't get it either. rip big huge and ensemble, rip the AoE-style RTS

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darealkooky
Sep 15, 2011

You sayin' I like dubs?!?

The Taint Reaper posted:

That being said why hasn't anyone made Brutal Legend clones with refined gameplay. That was an interesting twist to the RTS genre. Make it like a Brutal Legend/Heroes of Might and Magic 2 Hybrid.

this already exists, it's called sacrifice and was made back in like 2003

it's p good

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