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Super Waffle posted:To bring back Deus Ex: Revolution, one thing that really bothered me was the boss fights. I tried to go 100% non-lethal for my first playthrough, and I was doing great until the first boss fight. I'm trying everything I can think of to take this guy down without killing him, to the point where I get so frustrated I look up a FAQ online. Turns out that boss, and indeed all the other bosses, are immune to any of the non-lethal weapons/moves. You have to kill them, and there's no way around it. This was actually a failing of the game's design process. They 'farmed out' the design and implementation of the bosses to another project (overseas, I think) and just sort of plugged it into the game as-is. Which is why all three boss battles seem wildly out of place against the general canvas of the game - it's because there was no integration done.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:55
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Super Waffle posted:To bring back Deus Ex: Revolution, one thing that really bothered me was the boss fights. I tried to go 100% non-lethal for my first playthrough, and I was doing great until the first boss fight. I'm trying everything I can think of to take this guy down without killing him, to the point where I get so frustrated I look up a FAQ online. Turns out that boss, and indeed all the other bosses, are immune to any of the non-lethal weapons/moves. You have to kill them, and there's no way around it. That's not actually true, though? Enough stun gun ammo will beat the first two bosses just fine. In fact, it's probably one of the easiest ways to take care of them because it keeps them in stunlock. They still die tho.
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Dec 12, 2014 21:06
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Does someone have the shoddily drawn ms paint comic of a hero type killing, maiming and dismembering paid security guards just doing their job, then bests the villain, to which, now prone and bloodied, he says "I will not kill you, because that would make me just like you" and just walks off because that kind of poo poo has to be the most offensive example of lutersant naraddisses ever.
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Dec 12, 2014 21:58
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Vavrek posted:
Its sort of not really like either though since Drake in the cut-scenes is written as a fairly 'Aw-shucks', self deprecating, generically likable kind of guy, you know the sort that a lot of movies these days try to go for. I never really like the Indiana Jones comparison since they aren't the same character and I always got this impression that Jones is meant to be a rougher sort of person despite his lower body count. Honestly the thing with Uncharted is that if run and gun action adventuring with a crazy high body count is what they want to do it might have been better off not trying to make Drake this sort of 'Just like you or me!' protagonist and instead make him a Brock Samson-esque superhuman powerhouse who revels in the insane violence, that would have been fun as hell! khwarezm has a new favorite as of 23:31 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 23:22
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how me a frog posted:Does someone have the shoddily drawn ms paint comic of a hero type killing, maiming and dismembering paid security guards just doing their job, then bests the villain, to which, now prone and bloodied, he says "I will not kill you, because that would make me just like you" and just walks off because that kind of poo poo has to be the most offensive example of lutersant naraddisses ever. I don't think games invented this, though. I can remember being pissed off at this poo poo in comic books and action movies.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:11
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how me a frog posted:Does someone have the shoddily drawn ms paint comic of a hero type killing, maiming and dismembering paid security guards just doing their job, then bests the villain, to which, now prone and bloodied, he says "I will not kill you, because that would make me just like you" and just walks off because that kind of poo poo has to be the most offensive example of lutersant naraddisses ever.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:29
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LaughMyselfTo posted:I don't think games invented this, though. I can remember being pissed off at this poo poo in comic books and action movies. It's sort of a problem with the action genre in general, really. Some writers have a really hard time with reconciling the need for intense moments that thrill the audience and making the protagonist, if not likeable, at least relatable. It's a pretty easy trap to fall into, since a character killing a bunch of stupid, interchangeable mooks doesn't have much narrative impact (usually). Why should the protagonist give a poo poo if the audience won't?
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Dec 13, 2014 00:35
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Has anyone mentioned that game yet where you kill lots of dudes but your character feels bad about killing dudes?
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Dec 13, 2014 00:46
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kazil posted:Has anyone mentioned that game yet where you kill lots of dudes but your character feels bad about killing dudes?
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Dec 13, 2014 00:50
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In Wolfenstein the New Order I'm supposed freeing prisoners, disabling enemy weapons, or whatever. Everybody's yelling at me to get on with it. But I'm just crawling around looking for Enigma codes even as my buddies are getting slaughtered by the machine gun nest I'm supposed to take out.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:09
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kazil posted:Has anyone mentioned that game yet where you kill lots of dudes but your character feels bad about killing dudes? Metal Gear Solid Rising? A bit? Though, Raiden's entire world view flipped during each chapter. And MGS story lines are so schizophrenic that trying to parse dissonance and consonance is kind of difficult.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:16
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In the interest of giving us non-violent things to fill this thread with, might as well pull out another old chestnut of RPGs, who've arguably had these problems the longest, and I think they collated a lot of smaller bits of dissonance on the way rather than grapple with one big one. Very rarely in RPGs will the quality of equipment make any sense whatsoever within the actual game world. If the setting has a capital city, it's probably turning up somewhere in the first half of the game. That means that the center of industry and commerce has equipment balanced for when you're still kind of a chump. Inversely, chances are pretty good that the final equipment store will be some podunk middle-of-nowhere town that happens to be near the last important place you're going, and so a linear progression wins out over making any sense whatsoever. For a more specific example, I can't think of much better than Chrono Trigger; since 600AD comes after 1000AD in the game, weapons production was actually better four hundred years before you started. But nothing exhibits it better than when you get sent back to the Stone Age. Not only can you get katanas, crossbows, robot arms, and guns from cavemen who haven't even developed a formalized currency, but they outclass any similar weapons that you can buy from any of the AD-eras. The only era in the game that sells better equipment than the cavemen is the magically-ascended master race of 12,000 BC.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:29
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Metal Gear Solid 3. You're supposed to be the world's greatest soldier, leader and tactician, but when you're given a mission to stop the world from being engulfed in nuclear hellfire, you spend most of the time hiding in bushes with facepaint and no shirt on throwing frogs at people and giggling about it. Alternatively, you're going around being a supercompetant one man ninja army, then you get on the radio and talk about how vampire movies give you nightmare and how you only ever really feel safe when you're inside a cardboard box. MGS3 is the greatest game ever made.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:33
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Cluedonarrative Dissonance: you need to figure out who committed a murder but sometimes you're the murderer and don't realize it and you win by figuring out it was you and turning yourself in.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:47
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Cluedonarrative Dissonance: you need to figure out who committed a murder but sometimes you're the murderer and don't realize it and you win by figuring out it was you and turning yourself in. 
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Dec 13, 2014 02:00
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In Red Faction: Guerilla you spend the entire game running around with a The game's main conflict is that the people of Mars have to live underground because in the opening mission a terraforming machine breaks. 
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Dec 13, 2014 03:02
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Vavrek posted:Can anyone think of good examples that aren't about the narrative being less wantonly violent than the gameplay? Any game where you work for the military or similar and are sent on a mission of great importance, but have to buy your own equipment.
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Dec 13, 2014 05:42
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...of SCIENCE! posted:In Red Faction: Guerilla you spend the entire game running around with a I thought that was Red Faction Armaggedon rather than Guerilla. Still, yeah. Why is that particular machine impervious to nanites?
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Dec 13, 2014 06:25
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Lotish posted:I thought that was Red Faction Armaggedon rather than Guerilla. Still, yeah. Why is that particular machine impervious to nanites? The game is so bland and forgettable that I can't even remember the title, apparently.
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Dec 13, 2014 06:28
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Red Faction: Guerilla is the game about blowing up all of the structures on Mars that allow people to live on Mars, so that people who live on Mars can be free to live their lives as they want to.
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Dec 13, 2014 06:33
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Lotish posted:I thought that was Red Faction Armaggedon rather than Guerilla. Still, yeah. Why is that particular machine impervious to nanites? That's the best part: it isn't. The finale just has you strolling in and fixing it just like everything else. No explanation is ever given as to why you didn't do it earlier. Even a single line of technobabble about how the terraformer uses some type of technology that can't be replicated by the nanomachines, or one saying that the cultists have occupied the remains of the terraformer and have fended off all Red Faction's attempts to take it back could have explained it and they didn't even do that.
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Dec 13, 2014 07:07
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Any game where you can tank 100s of bullets but during cut scenes, bad guys can hold you at gunpoint.
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Dec 13, 2014 07:28
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Any Elder Scrolls game in which you've leveled up to the point where you're a demigod, covered in glowing magical dragon shards or whatever, and assholes wearing loincloths and wielding pointy sticks still try to rob you. At least in Fallout the bandits are drug-addled and suicidal, so it makes some sense.
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Dec 13, 2014 13:44
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Any Elder Scrolls game in which you've leveled up to the point where you're a demigod, covered in glowing magical dragon shards or whatever, and assholes wearing loincloths and wielding pointy sticks still try to rob you. At least in Fallout the bandits are drug-addled and suicidal, so it makes some sense. Speaking of pitched battles (or lack thereof), the absence of support from employers, allies and supporters always struck me as weird in games like X-COM. We stand as the last line of defence against an alien invasion that is killing millions and levelling entire cities, and the best the US can do is shoot me $100 000 and a couple of brain-dead rookies that failed Army Basic Training? Would a Reaper drone or two be too much to ask when I am slowly creeping my soldiers through the forest looking for genetically engineered super soldiers of alien origin? Heck, could I be allowed to deploy more than one dropship worth of operatives? I mean, six guys against 30+ aliens with plasma rifles and chemical weapons designed to turn humans inside out feels a bit unfair... And then there are these scientists helping me develop weapons to take down the alien menace. They are asking sky-high salaries and will abandon the cause should I temporarily run out of funds. I am fairly sure even prominent researchers would not acquiesce to the eradication of mankind should their cheques not cash at the end of the month. Once you start thinking about things like these the strategic layer starts feeling very detached from the game's narrative; cue dissonance. At least they started somewhat explaining it in the remake, and Xenonauts actually tries to have it make sense.
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Dec 13, 2014 14:53
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Any Elder Scrolls game in which you've leveled up to the point where you're a demigod, covered in glowing magical dragon shards or whatever, and assholes wearing loincloths and wielding pointy sticks still try to rob you. At least in Fallout the bandits are drug-addled and suicidal, so it makes some sense. I've had this happen immediately after killing a dragon right in front of them. I think the best is when you're decked out in tons of valuable rare gear and you pass the "Do I look like I have any money?" speech check. Which I guess you wouldn't if you actually bought that stuff.
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Dec 13, 2014 15:30
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Alouicious posted:Red Faction: Guerilla is the game about blowing up all of the structures on Mars that allow people to live on Mars, so that people who live on Mars can be free to live their lives as they want to. There's no dissonance, because you're a Space rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 13, 2014 16:00
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Arthur D Wolfe posted:Or, reversing the scenario, when bandits decked out in high tier armour and carrying weapons worth a king's ransom demand you hand over 10 gold or face the consequences. Bonus points for them doing this when you also are equipped with similar vestments of a god and crackling with arcane energy, thus making it a pitched battle of legend over the equivalent of $3.50. Those guys are clearly already rich and just doing it for the thrill, so demanding ten gold is just their way of asking if you're up for a fight.
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Dec 13, 2014 16:00
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Bhodi posted:There's no dissonance, because you're a Space rear end in a top hat. I know, it's very silly and funny, Red Faction Guerrilla is a fun game
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Dec 13, 2014 19:43
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In class based games it always is strange to me that only a certain class can wield a certain item. Dark Souls and other games get around this by everyone being able to do everything. But in other games like say, the Dragon Age games or some such, I find it funny that an all powerful master wizard that has seen years of battle is completely baffled by this strange bladed item with a hand guard on it. He seriously can't even PICK IT UP and swing it around terribly? This extends from games like that to other strategy based games too. No no, you don't know how to shotgun, you can only pistol, sorry. Especially in games like Mass Effect where you're essentially a highly trained N7 operative. What, did you sleep through shotgun class?
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Dec 13, 2014 20:32
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Jastiger posted:In class based games it always is strange to me that only a certain class can wield a certain item. Dark Souls and other games get around this by everyone being able to do everything. But in other games like say, the Dragon Age games or some such, I find it funny that an all powerful master wizard that has seen years of battle is completely baffled by this strange bladed item with a hand guard on it. He seriously can't even PICK IT UP and swing it around terribly? This extends from games like that to other strategy based games too. No no, you don't know how to shotgun, you can only pistol, sorry. Especially in games like Mass Effect where you're essentially a highly trained N7 operative. What, did you sleep through shotgun class? This is ancient but fits what you describe very well. I would translate it if there were any reason to. 
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Dec 13, 2014 22:33
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Jastiger posted:In class based games it always is strange to me that only a certain class can wield a certain item. Dark Souls and other games get around this by everyone being able to do everything. But in other games like say, the Dragon Age games or some such, I find it funny that an all powerful master wizard that has seen years of battle is completely baffled by this strange bladed item with a hand guard on it. He seriously can't even PICK IT UP and swing it around terribly? This extends from games like that to other strategy based games too. No no, you don't know how to shotgun, you can only pistol, sorry. Especially in games like Mass Effect where you're essentially a highly trained N7 operative. What, did you sleep through shotgun class? Dark Souls sort of does it, but if you pick up something you don't have the stats to use the game basically just says "OK you can use this, but you're going to suck at it."
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Dec 13, 2014 22:42
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RPGs like Dark Souls have gotten a lot better about this as the years have gone by, and even a decade ago in like FFX-2 this wasn't an issue (and a decade before that in FFV), but it did always used to bug me how changing your armor/weapons in RPGs would not be reflected by your in-game sprites/models. I get why that's the case-- who has the time to design unique models for every possible armor/weapon combination on every character?--but it still bugged me that my lovely little RPG protagonists were farting around in their fey outfits long after I outfitted them in suits of armor with giant gently caress-off weapons. It also bugs me quite a bit in most games wherein you establish yourself as this badass killing machine tantamount to the Four Horsemen made flesh, yet you'll still get low-level mercenaries/monsters throwing themselves at you with total abandon. Earthbound did this pretty well, where low-level monsters would just *smell* the hurt coming from you and try to run away, and if you caught them you got essentially free XP and the implication that you stone-cold murdered an innocent fleeing victim.
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Dec 13, 2014 22:48
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RPG characters should laugh at you when you go nuts with the face sliders
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Dec 13, 2014 23:42
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Arthur D Wolfe posted:Or, reversing the scenario, when bandits decked out in high tier armour and carrying weapons worth a king's ransom demand you hand over 10 gold or face the consequences. Bonus points for them doing this when you also are equipped with similar vestments of a god and crackling with arcane energy, thus making it a pitched battle of legend over the equivalent of $3.50. There's a similar thing in Dragon's Dogma. At early levels Bandits(specifically the ones with a sword and shield) are easily the strongest enemies, even when you're fighting stuff like 15 foot ogres and chimeras the size of a bus. They have absurd amounts of health and can 2-shot you. Makes the trip to the Witch's hut very perilous.
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Dec 14, 2014 00:44
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ScratchAndSniff posted:RPG characters should laugh at you when you go nuts with the face sliders This. Plus it would be a nice touch if when you're wearing an NPC's exact armor set, they made SOME comment about it when you spoke to them the first time after donning it. Even just "I like your robe." When I'm wearing Dusk's entire outfit in Dark Souls, I want her just ONCE to say "I see we have similar tastes!" I like feeling pretty.  Not sure if this fits with the theme of the thread, exactly, but it always amused me walking around Diablo 2 as say- a Paladin, and you go into one of the many crypt levels, and you find many containers in there marked as "Undefiled Crypt", which you can open in hopes of getting a few gold pieces or an item. So here you are, crusader against the undead, evil blight which has been let loose upon the world, and you have found a grave undefiled by the same blight you are out to destroy and what do you do? Defile it. For 5 gold.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:02
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HaB posted:This. They sort of did with one of the DLC bosses in 2. If you wear the armor of a guy he fought with in the past, he goes berserk and straight into the second phase of the fight. No snappy dialogue though.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:34
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ScratchAndSniff posted:RPG characters should laugh at you when you go nuts with the face sliders Has anyone made a video about a scenario like that? Just scenes made hilarious by the main character looking loving weird.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:51
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Has anyone made a video about a scenario like that? Just scenes made hilarious by the main character looking loving weird. Every video LP of an RPG with a character creator on the internet.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:52
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Alouicious posted:Every video LP of an RPG with a character creator on the internet. I was thinking more of a "Best of" feature. e: just found some after a dozen "top six reasons why you'll love Inquisition" videos BravestOfTheLamps has a new favorite as of 02:00 on Dec 14, 2014 |
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Dec 14, 2014 01:54
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Has anyone made a video about a scenario like that? Just scenes made hilarious by the main character looking loving weird.  
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Dec 14, 2014 04:25
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