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Ensign_Ricky
Jan 4, 2008

Daddy Warlord
of the
Children of the Corn


or something...
So, Shakespeare. Arguably the most adapted writer of all time. He may also have been the filthiest, but that's neither here nor there. But let's have a classy time discussing motherfucking Shakespeare and films inspired by or based on his works, and why they're awesome or possibly suck because the director has no idea what they're doing.

Personally, my favorite play by him is Othello, mostly on the strength and villainy of Iago. The guy is practically a supervillain in his planning the downfall of the Moorish General.

And one of the worst adaptations I've seen was by one of the greatest directors of all time.

Orson Welles' The Tragedy of Othello


Yes, yes, yes, we all know that before he went completely insane Orson Welles was one of the greats. Hell, right there on the poster it calls it a "masterpiece". And I will admit it has a few things going for it in a cinematographic sense. But oh dear god is it painful. Every character's lines are cut down...except Welles. Othello gets to keep all his monologues while Iago's motives are boiled down to "I hate the Moor." with no reason behind it. Desdemona might as well have been a blow-up sex doll for all the characterization she's left with. But of course Welles would allow himself to retain all of his dialogue. And that's even before talking about...well....the blackface. (Ok, technically redface as red showed up as a better black in B&W films, but whatever.) No matter what, in this day and age unless you're Robert Downey Jr, blackface portrayals are uncomfortable to watch. And that's not to say that Welles doesn't give a good performance, but it was at the expense of every other actor.

Instead, might I recommend:

Masterpiece Theatre Presents: Othello


Now, this one is a little hard to find, but so worth the effort. Reset in a modern day London police department, Eamonn Walker plays Officer John Othello who is promoted over his mentor Ben Jago to be the new Police Commissioner after the old one is ousted when Jago tricks him into making racist statements in front of a reporter. Jago here is played absolutely masterfully by Christopher Eccleston, and exudes just a palpable aura of menace and evil. It's a magnificent performance which makes me upset that he can't get better villain work in films these days. And Keeley Hawes as the film's Desdemona is so tragic, that it rips at you the moment you realize that Othello's about to kill her. It's an amazing piece of work that should be seen by any fan of Shakespeare, I really can't recommend it enough. If you can find it, that is; it's going for about $450 on Amazon Canada right now.

Of course there are other adaptations starring Olivier or Brannagh, but I figure I'll let someone else get a word in before I prattle on too much.

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Leatherhead
Jul 3, 2006

For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still

Part of the reason Eamonn Walker is so good in the Masterpiece Theater is that he was just coming off a long run as Othello at the Globe. I was lucky enough to see him there (opposite Tim McInnery as Iago) and he was fantastic. His stage performance was frighteningly violent, but he did an excellent job of scaling it down for film.

My personal favorite adaptation still had to be Julie Taymor's Titus there are some pretty typical Taymor excesses early on (including some very questionable CGI) but if there's one play that invites a little bit of excess it's this one, and she nails the overall aesthetic by placing the movie in a sort of Fascist Gilded-Age Rome. There's not a minute of the movie that's a bore to watch, and that's largely in part to some of the most perfect casting I've ever seen. Considering how mediocre Taymor's Tempest was, I'm inclined to give them most of the credit. I can't even rave about any one particular actor because everyone blew me away.

Ok I lied, Anthony Hopkins is breathtaking as Titus himself. I've seen a lot of bad productions of Titus Andronicus, and it's very easy to just shout your way through the play, but Hopkins finds so many wonderful levels to chart the character's fall from dignity.

Seriously just watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_97LyhU9cg
(Also featured: questionable CGI)

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
I'm gonna hunt down that Eamonn Walker Othello.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

The best Shakespeare adaptation is Akira Kurosawa's Throne of Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoYzsDVyFRU

davidspackage
May 16, 2007

Nap Ghost

Chainsawdomy posted:

Part of the reason Eamonn Walker is so good in the Masterpiece Theater is that he was just coming off a long run as Othello at the Globe. I was lucky enough to see him there (opposite Tim McInnery as Iago) and he was fantastic. His stage performance was frighteningly violent, but he did an excellent job of scaling it down for film.

My personal favorite adaptation still had to be Julie Taymor's Titus there are some pretty typical Taymor excesses early on (including some very questionable CGI) but if there's one play that invites a little bit of excess it's this one, and she nails the overall aesthetic by placing the movie in a sort of Fascist Gilded-Age Rome. There's not a minute of the movie that's a bore to watch, and that's largely in part to some of the most perfect casting I've ever seen. Considering how mediocre Taymor's Tempest was, I'm inclined to give them most of the credit. I can't even rave about any one particular actor because everyone blew me away.

Ok I lied, Anthony Hopkins is breathtaking as Titus himself. I've seen a lot of bad productions of Titus Andronicus, and it's very easy to just shout your way through the play, but Hopkins finds so many wonderful levels to chart the character's fall from dignity.

Seriously just watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_97LyhU9cg
(Also featured: questionable CGI)

Julie Taymor's Titus is one of my all-time favorite movies, I love everything about it. Harry Lennix is probably my favorite part, I'm just in awe when he's doing his thing.

I got the impression Coriolanus with Ralph Fiennes was good, but then I heared relatively little feedback on it. Opinions?

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm 😤 not a 🦸🏻‍♂️hero...🧜🏻



It has been a while since I last watched a good Shakespeare production, the most recent ones were Whedon's Much Ado about Nothing (only really good for Dogsbody and co.), but the other two I enjoyed very much were the BBC adaptation of Macbeth with Patrick Stewart in faux-Soviet aesthetic, as well Fiennes' Coriolanus back in '11.

The one thing I remember with respect to Coriolanus and Much Ado... is that there are a number of aspects to Shakespeare's plays that can make them hard to utilise in more modern settings, e.g. the exile scene in the former, people being put under house arrest in the latter in people's mansions, etc. However, you can still get pretty good acting nevertheless. I do recall at the end of Coriolanus the way that Fiennes spits 'Boy' at Tullus being quite memorably vehement.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

davidspackage posted:

I got the impression Coriolanus with Ralph Fiennes was good, but then I heared relatively little feedback on it. Opinions?

One of the best films of 2012. I happen to think it's as good as Titus, and I love Titus.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

davidspackage posted:

I got the impression Coriolanus with Ralph Fiennes was good, but then I heared relatively little feedback on it. Opinions?

I liked it a lot. Ralph Fiennes kills it, it was good to see him in lead role again after what felt like ages as a supporting actor. I wouldn't compare Coriolanus to Titus at all though, it lacks most of the latter's aesthetics. It's much more like Richard Loncrane's Richard III with Ian McKellen, which happens to be one of my favorite Shakespeare adaptations.

Looten Plunder
Jul 11, 2006
Grimey Drawer
I can't speak to it myself, but I listen to the Filmspotting podcast and one of the hosts Adam will never let an opportunity slip to mention Henry V. I assume it's the 1989 version. Apparently it's one I should check out though.

Velcro Crucifix
Oct 7, 2013
Speaking of Coriolanus, did any of you catch Donmar Warehouse production starring Tom Hiddleston? It was fantastic. The set was extremely minimalist with some fantastic lighting to show battle scenes. The set was close and dirty, befitting of the Rome this production showcased. I'm not sure how easy it is to get a hold of now.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006

davidspackage posted:

Julie Taymor's Titus is one of my all-time favorite movies, I love everything about it. Harry Lennix is probably my favorite part, I'm just in awe when he's doing his thing.


Here is Harry Lennix's amazing confession scene as Aaron the Moor. He was one of those familiar "that guy" actors who always shows up in things, but this was the first time I ever really paid attention to him, learned his name, and started looking forward to seeing him in everything:
http://youtu.be/rnEuv1XShWQ

I'm also a big fan of Joss Whedon's Much Ado About Nothing, between the slick black and white cinematography and the cast of Whedon regulars: Alexis Denisof, Amy Acker, Clark Gregg, Reed Diamond, a hilarious Nathan Fillion playing Dogberry like a cliched TV cop, and a surprise Riki Lindholme (from Garfunkel and Oates).

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

Here is Harry Lennix's amazing confession scene as Aaron the Moor. He was one of those familiar "that guy" actors who always shows up in things, but this was the first time I ever really paid attention to him, learned his name, and started looking forward to seeing him in everything:
http://youtu.be/rnEuv1XShWQ

Yeah, this. When watching Titus I thought "Oh, it's That Guy from Matrix 2, huh" and afterwards when I re-watched Matrix 2 I was actually able to somewhat appreciate his character there a little more. Funny how an actor's body of work can contextualize a role.

a shitty king
Mar 26, 2010
I'm currently working on a BBC adaptation of Henry IV and Richard III, and seeing the scenes played out over and over again is really helping my understanding of two plays I was never too familiar with. It's also kept Richard's soliloquies direct to audience, which I don't think the previous series did at all, which serves to heighten the creepy villany of Richard. I never knew about the hilarious scene in Richard where he gets his lackeys to bring all the nobles of London to 'catch' him praying, and it's such an over the top show of piety and humbleness that it's actually funny.

Leatherhead
Jul 3, 2006

For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still

I really need to re-watch Coriolanus, because I remember going into it with a lot of excitement, but becoming fatigued by the end. It's possible though that I just wanted it to be Titus, and that I could appreciate it for its own merits on a second viewing.

On a different note, does anyone know of a decent film version of Measure for Measure?

Kangra
May 7, 2012

xcore posted:

I can't speak to it myself, but I listen to the Filmspotting podcast and one of the hosts Adam will never let an opportunity slip to mention Henry V. I assume it's the 1989 version. Apparently it's one I should check out though.

Definitely check it out. The direction is stellar, and it's a very accessible version of Shakespeare. By far its best enhancement is the score by Patrick Doyle, which for years afterward showed up in every movie trailer, but works fantastically in context as well.

Prior to Brannagh's version the Olivier one was considered the standard, and while it was probably quite innovative in its time (1944), it doesn't hold up quite as well. I'd only give a slight edge to Olivier's Henry when compared to Brannagh (aside from the fact that Olivier always looks like a stage actor when on screen).

Ensign_Ricky
Jan 4, 2008

Daddy Warlord
of the
Children of the Corn


or something...

FreudianSlippers posted:

The best Shakespeare adaptation is Akira Kurosawa's Throne of Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoYzsDVyFRU

I have yet to see it, so I cannot comment, however Kurosawa's The Bad Sleep Well is an excellent retelling of Hamlet. The beginning is a little confusing, but once it gets going, you really root for the protagonist Nishi (also played by Toshiro Mifune), and you really honestly want the Hamlet character to win for a change.

Considering the only version of Hamlet that the protagonist lives through is The Lion King...

zandert33
Sep 20, 2002

The black-face used in Welles' Othello is clearly a product of its time, but it's not really an example of typical "black-face" in that he's not trying to present a caricature of a black man, he's just a white actor who wants to play a black role, for good or bad. I think the far worse offense is making Iago such a boring character. He's one of the most interesting characters in any piece of literature, and the reason why I love Othello, the play, so much.

While on the topic of Welles, his much better Shakespearean movies is "Chimes at Midnight", though not based strictly on a single play it is a really well done movie, and has a great performance from Welles.

Also "Throne of Blood" is excellent. Kurosawa distilled the basic aspects of Macbeth into a really interesting period piece. Ran should be added to the list as well, another great Kurosawa take on Shakespeare.

Ensign_Ricky
Jan 4, 2008

Daddy Warlord
of the
Children of the Corn


or something...

zandert33 posted:

The black-face used in Welles' Othello is clearly a product of its time, but it's not really an example of typical "black-face" in that he's not trying to present a caricature of a black man, he's just a white actor who wants to play a black role, for good or bad. I think the far worse offense is making Iago such a boring character. He's one of the most interesting characters in any piece of literature, and the reason why I love Othello, the play, so much.

I'll grant that, it's just been ingrained into me to be extremely uncomfortable when a white actor plays black/mongolian/arabian/etc. Blame my liberal upbringing I guess. But yeah, Welles' Iago is just so dreadfully dull. Also, part of Iago is that he is supposed to look trustworthy to all his "friends".



I wouldn't trust a guy who looks like that to pee on me to put out a fire.

edit: While looking for that image, I stumbled across what appears to be a production of Othello with Avery "Ben loving Sisko" Brooks as Othello. WHY HAVE I NOT SEEN THIS?!?

Ensign_Ricky fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Dec 10, 2014

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.
The best retelling of Hamlet is clearly Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead. I love that movie so much, even though I first saw it for the first time when I wasn't particularly familiar with Hamlet. My appreciation for that movie has only increased as I grew more familiar with the play though, and Tim Roth and Gary Oldman are delightful to watch. Also, I still regularly try to get people around me to play Questions, it's a great game.

F Stop Fitzgerald
Dec 12, 2010

To me, the only Iago is Bob Hoskins.

This might not even be the right thread because they are almost straight filmed performances, but that BBC collection from the late 70's/early 80's are great if you want to see the plays acted in their near-complete forms, with minimal set design and cheap costumes. Highlights are Hamlet (Derek Jacobi), Othello (Anthony Hopkins and Bob Hoskins), and Timon of Athens with Jonathon Pryce.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!

Say what you will about Orson Welles' Othello, but it is gorgeous.

Ensign_Ricky
Jan 4, 2008

Daddy Warlord
of the
Children of the Corn


or something...

TrixRabbi posted:

Say what you will about Orson Welles' Othello, but it is gorgeous.



I will 100% grant that.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this

Mowglis Haircut posted:

I'm currently working on a BBC adaptation of Henry IV and Richard III, and seeing the scenes played out over and over again is really helping my understanding of two plays I was never too familiar with. It's also kept Richard's soliloquies direct to audience, which I don't think the previous series did at all, which serves to heighten the creepy villany of Richard. I never knew about the hilarious scene in Richard where he gets his lackeys to bring all the nobles of London to 'catch' him praying, and it's such an over the top show of piety and humbleness that it's actually funny.

Richard III is hilarious, it's like a Coen brothers movie.

Ensign_Ricky
Jan 4, 2008

Daddy Warlord
of the
Children of the Corn


or something...
Ok, time to talk about the true black sheep of the Othello adaptations...er...well, no pun intended.



gently caress THIS MOVIE. No, really, this is some of the dumbest poo poo I've ever seen in a Shakespearean adaptation. And not just because it's loving dull (and lord is it), but some of the stupidest decisions in film-making I've ever seen. Where to begin:

1. The Iago character is portrayed as a steroid popping lunk head with severe Daddy issues.
2. The Othello character essentially rapes Desdemona. No, really.
3. At one point during a period of stress, the Othello character paces back and forth in the background, behind a pipe clearly marked "HOT WATER" with an arrow pointing up. I am dead loving serious. That is the level of subtlety we're dealing with here.
4. IT'S DULL AS loving DISHWATER.


I'd like to quote from a paper I wrote on this piece of poo poo on the subject of the Roderigo character.

quote:

He’s the subject of repeated humiliations at the hands of his classmates, making him that much easier for Iago/Hugo to manipulate to his own ends, and if the character’s pain were visibly internalized, and if the actor were able to channel descriptions of notable school shooters who were provoked in similar fashions, it could result in an extremely chilling performance. Instead, the viewer is subjected to an individual who spends a great deal of time weeping and whining to the point that they are relieved when Hugo shoots him dead.

I got an A, but next to that passage, the instructor couldn't help but write the word "HARSH!".

TL;DR? It's controversial because it loving SUCKS ON TOAST.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.
I kinda liked O on first viewing but haven't revisited it since, might as well just have been my love for Othello coming through. I do remember being annoyed in places by how the movie handled Iago, they basically took away the Vice-related aspects of his character and turned him into a mopey douchebag. Not fun.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
Maybe I am misremembering but didn't Julia Stiles catch some flack for O and Save The Last Dance?

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

F Stop Fitzgerald posted:

To me, the only Iago is Bob Hoskins.

This might not even be the right thread because they are almost straight filmed performances, but that BBC collection from the late 70's/early 80's are great if you want to see the plays acted in their near-complete forms, with minimal set design and cheap costumes. Highlights are Hamlet (Derek Jacobi), Othello (Anthony Hopkins and Bob Hoskins), and Timon of Athens with Jonathon Pryce.

i like the version of Titus Andronicus from this series even more than the Julie Taymor version. it's the only one I've seen in its entirety, though. Hoskins as Iago sounds great.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Maybe I am misremembering but didn't Julia Stiles catch some flack for O and Save The Last Dance?

There was a two year time period during which Julia Stiles was like in every modernized Shakespeare adaptation. She's not a bad actress but at the very least was severely miscast as Ophelia in Hamlet 2000.

Ensign_Ricky
Jan 4, 2008

Daddy Warlord
of the
Children of the Corn


or something...

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Maybe I am misremembering but didn't Julia Stiles catch some flack for O and Save The Last Dance?

I vaguely recall something about that. She is easily the best thing about the movie though. Even Martin Sheen can't save it.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
I mean specifically for appearing in more than one movie as a romantic lead opposite a black man.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing is great, almost entirely because of Emma Thompson. Her Beatrice is one of my favorite all time performances of any character in any medium. The other actors are good (though Keanu struggles as the villain) and the photography is lovely.

I did really like Amy Acker in the Whedon film, though.

Ensign_Ricky
Jan 4, 2008

Daddy Warlord
of the
Children of the Corn


or something...

Maxwell Lord posted:

Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing is great, almost entirely because of Emma Thompson. Her Beatrice is one of my favorite all time performances of any character in any medium. The other actors are good (though Keanu struggles as the villain) and the photography is lovely.

I did really like Amy Acker in the Whedon film, though.

The chemistry between Thompson and Branagh is just so amazing. Hell, every performance (minus Keanu) in that one is just sooooooooo good. I sat back afterwards and had to say aloud "Why the gently caress hasn't Denzel done more Shakespeare? He was wonderful in that!"

And I'll say this for Amy Acker over Emma Thompson, Acker was at least willing to take a header down a flight of stairs.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I mean specifically for appearing in more than one movie as a romantic lead opposite a black man.

Yeah me and my friends called her the go-to jungle fever girl for a while although now jungle fever seems like an offensive word now that I typed it out for the first time in years.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Maxwell Lord posted:

Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing is great, almost entirely because of Emma Thompson. Her Beatrice is one of my favorite all time performances of any character in any medium. The other actors are good (though Keanu struggles as the villain) and the photography is lovely.

The movie is just so incredibly uplifting. The soundtrack is a big part of that, too. I usually find myself fist-pumping with the characters when they ride towards you in the beginning, all because of the swell of the music.

davidspackage
May 16, 2007

Nap Ghost

Steve Yun posted:

Yeah me and my friends called her the go-to jungle fever girl for a while although now jungle fever seems like an offensive word now that I typed it out for the first time in years.

Jeesh, I'm glad you see how that's problematic now.

Keanu Reeves was in Shakespeare as well as Dracula? Guess you have to sell your projects somehow...

AtraMorS
Feb 29, 2004

If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

davidspackage posted:

Keanu Reeves was in Shakespeare as well as Dracula? Guess you have to sell your projects somehow...
He played loving Hamlet at one point. And was reportedly not terrible.

Don John's such a sad character that I don't think Reeves' performance hurt the adaptation too much. The guy's completely out of place amidst all the masquerades and matchmaking, and laughing at Reeves' lovely acting just kind of encourages you to laugh at this pathetic guy who can't stomach other people being happy. An actor who brought talented malice to the role might threaten to overcloud an otherwise sunny story, but Reeves' bad acting makes it easy for the audience to see Don John with a dismissive, "Haters gonna hate" attitude.

That's not to say Reeves was any good, just that the adaptation works in spite of him.

DrVenkman
Dec 28, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
I've always been so-so on Amy Acker, but I found her utterly charming in Much Ado About Nothing. Between that an Person Of Interest she's one of those people who deserves a lot better than they're getting.

99 CENTS AMIGO
Jul 22, 2007
It's interesting to compare the different Olivier filmed adaptations. You've got arguably (not necessarily by me) the finest/most famed Shakespearean actor of the last century, and I feel like Richard III is the only one worth its salt. He does such a terrific job engaging with the camera in all of the to-the-audience moments, its photography has way more care put into it than Henry V or Hamlet, and doesn't feel as rushed at times as the other two.

Hell, the best contrast to the confidence he builds with the audience throughout the movie is the end, when Richard looks so small and lost among the battle and can no longer use his charms. Olivier's the perfect wounded beast there. It's a fantastic damned movie.

99 CENTS AMIGO fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Dec 13, 2014

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

Ensign_Ricky posted:

The chemistry between Thompson and Branagh is just so amazing. Hell, every performance (minus Keanu) in that one is just sooooooooo good. I sat back afterwards and had to say aloud "Why the gently caress hasn't Denzel done more Shakespeare? He was wonderful in that!"

And I'll say this for Amy Acker over Emma Thompson, Acker was at least willing to take a header down a flight of stairs.

The downside of Denzel Washington always getting very serious heady roles is he rarely gets to be as charming as he can be. He's always had a Cary Grant quality.

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I, Butthole
Jun 30, 2007

Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT
Man, this many posts and no one talking about Polanski's Macbeth? That's criminal.

It's probably my favourite filmed Shakespeare rivalling Olivier's Richard III - as horrible as the circumstances surrounding Polanski were, it allowed an outlet for tragedy to truly be displayed on screen - every shot has this huge sense of loneliness and where most would present Scotland as an idyllic hilly fields, Polanski has no hesitation in showcasing it as this dreary, dirty hole of a place which runs far and away from most other adaptations (that I've seen) that seem to have a nice sheen over everything. The soliloquies and passages are presented fairly faithfully, and the fights are just as understated as everything else, but the final fight just stays as one of my favourite in filmed history. It has this feeling of weight behind every action, and the killing blow is final but not celebratory of overplayed...it just happens.

The expansion of Ross and Donalbain's coda both support the film as well, which opposes from most adaptations that seek to expand Shakespeare - both fit really well with the themes of the play and don't do much to alter the original.

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