Senate torture report

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Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Cocoa Ninja posted:

You're probably doing , but it's worth stating for the record: American popular culture almost universally depicts torture in a way that completely meshes with the neo-conservative view of it ��a short-in-duration, tense progression of techniques, nearly always employed by good men in tough times (the "ticking time bomb" scenario), often disobeying orders in order to immediately produce actionable intelligence. The ends justify the means.

Video games are also highly culpable in this depiction.

Yes, I was being a bit on the nose, but ultimately there still remains little discussion of exactly how far right-wing popular entertainment of various forms is in the US and largely still is. Torture is one part of it btw, Black Ops 2 has you fighting with forces supported by Apartheid South Africa not to mention a litany of other non-sense.

Any critique you see in the press is usually mush-mouthed or soft as can be and there pretty much is no competent analysis outside of film.

Edit: I dislike using neo-conservative at this point, because it is too specific. This is straight up hard right authoritarian.

Ardennes fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Dec 9, 2014

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:19

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 16:55

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Fun fact: The DoD's PR department is almost the size of the entire State Deptartment in terms of people.(around 30,000)

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:20

Salt Fish: Sep 11, 2003; Cybernetic Crumb

Has there been any indication that the Obama administration intends to materially punish any individual?

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:25

Papercut: Aug 24, 2005; The quickest substitution in the history of the NBA

Salt Fish posted:

Has there been any indication that the Obama administration intends to materially punish any individual?

Do you think any of this information is new to them? There is a better chance of them pardoning all involved to make sure no one else can punish them.

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:30

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Salt Fish posted:

Has there been any indication that the Obama administration intends to materially punish any individual?

Hell no. Because if you think the CIA and pals aren't still doing all this same poo poo you're a dupe.

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:32

awesmoe: Nov 30, 2005; Pillbug

Papercut posted:

Do you think any of this information is new to them? There is a better chance of them pardoning all involved to make sure no one else can punish them.

Again, the ACLU recommends pardoning. It won't happen because it acknowledges that there is a crime to be pardoned for.

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:34

Nelson Mandingo: Mar 27, 2005

seiferguy posted:

Apparently during all this time the CIA was torturing, no one from the CIA went to give GW Bush a report for four whole years:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nat...Nz1L/story.html

Plausible deniability for the president. They knew what they were doing was wrong after all.

Reading all of this really is a black comedy though. Why exactly do we have the CIA at this point?

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:35

Chamale: Jul 11, 2010; I'm helping!

Throughout our history, the United States of America has done more than any other nation to stand up for freedom, democracy, and the inherent dignity and human rights of people around the world. The CIA used its enhanced interrogation techniques despite warnings from CIA medical personnel. Since the horrific attacks of 9/11, these public servants have worked tirelessly to devastate core al Qaeda, deliver justice to Osama bin Laden, disrupt terrorist operations and thwart terrorist attacks. CIA officers also threatened at least three detainees with harm to their families� to include threats to harm the children of a detainee, threats to sexually abuse the mother of a detainee, and a threat to "cut [a detainee's] mother's throat". Our intelligence professionals are patriots, and we are safer because of their heroic service and sacrifices.

In the years after 9/11, with legitimate fears of further attacks and with the responsibility to prevent more catastrophic loss of life, the previous administration faced agonizing choices about how to pursue al Qaeda and prevent additional terrorist attacks against our country. Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. At the same time, some of the actions that were taken were contrary to our values. The use of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of obtaining accurate information or gaining detainee cooperation.

Today�s report by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence details one element of our nation�s response to 9/11�the CIA�s detention and interrogation program, which I formally ended on one of my first days in office. Some of the plots that the CIA claimed to have "disrupted" as a result of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques were assessed by intelligence and law enforcement officials as being infeasible or ideas that were never operationalized. Moreover, these techniques did significant damage to America�s standing in the world and made it harder to pursue our interests with allies and partners. CIA officers (including personnel not trained in interrogation) could, at their discretion, strip a detainee naked, shackle him in the standing position for up to 72 hours, and douse the detainee repeatedly with cold water�without approval from CIA Headquarters.

As Commander in Chief, I have no greater responsibility than the safety and security of the American people. [CIA Officer 1] ordered that Gul Rahman be shackled to the wall of his cell in a position that required the detainee to rest on the bare concrete floor. That is why I have consistently supported the declassification of today�s report. The next day, the guards found Gul Rahman's dead body. But one of the strengths that makes America exceptional is our willingness to openly confront our past, face our imperfections, make changes and do better. Later, during the course of al-Nashiri's debriefings, while he was blindfolded, [CIA Officer 2] placed a pistol near al-Nashiri's head and operated acordless drill near al-Nashiri's body. Today is also a reminder that upholding the values we profess doesn�t make us weaker, it makes us stronger and that the United States of America will remain the greatest force for freedom and human dignity that the world has ever known.

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:36

Salt Fish: Sep 11, 2003; Cybernetic Crumb

Papercut posted:

Do you think any of this information is new to them? There is a better chance of them pardoning all involved to make sure no one else can punish them.

I would say that the administration's new information is that the public now knows more about this rather than the information literally contained in the report. I saw Obama's hollow repudiation in a news article I had read and, while I figured that it wouldn't translate into any substantial action, I guess after 6.5 years I still had a shred of hope.

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:39

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Tezzor posted:

It's incredible how you think this rationale, while accurate, is defensible.

It's not illegal if the government does it.

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:50

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Tezzor posted:

It's incredible how you think this rationale, while accurate, is defensible.

I'm not saying it's justifiable, I just think it's a minor aspect that would take a tremendous effort to push against. It would require basically the entire torture argument to revolve solely around whether or not X should be going to jail instead of, you know, preventing torture, for anything to be accomplished on that front. Pick your battles.

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:56

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

quote:

At least 26 of the 119 (21% or just over 1 in 5) prisoners held by the CIA were later found to be innocent, many having also experienced torture.[13

This is really bad.

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:58

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

evilweasel posted:

It should also be noted that the CIA is currently, right now lying about facts the report covers: it is attempting to claim that torture was important in finding Bin Laden while the report specifically shows that is a lie.

Here's the site they put up to counter the report http://ciasavedlives.com/

# ? Dec 9, 2014 23:59

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

Volkerball posted:

I'm not saying it's justifiable, I just think it's a minor aspect that would take a tremendous effort to push against. It would require basically the entire torture argument to revolve solely around whether or not X should be going to jail instead of, you know, preventing torture, for anything to be accomplished on that front. Pick your battles.

It is well-established in legal theory that a primary purpose of punishing criminals is deterrence, and how are we going to credibly say that we are preventing torture when there is no reason to believe that people ordering or perpetuating torture will be prosecuted in the future?

I mean, if you want say it's pointless to talk about because it won't happen, fine, but don't piss on my face and tell me it's raining.

Tezzor fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Dec 10, 2014

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:00

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

euphronius posted:

It's not illegal if the government does it.

Speaking of which the CIA spent $1 million dollars making sure the psychiatrists they outsourced the torture to could not be prosecuted for it. How binding will this be?

quote:

The Money Behind The CIA's Torture Program
Comment Now
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The report on the Central Intelligence Agency�s program to detain and interrogate terrorism suspects released by the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday documents some of the gruesome techniques like waterboarding the CIA employed in the years after the 9/11 attacks. The lengthy and detailed report that took five years to put together also makes clear that big money was involved in building a CIA detention and interrogation program that relied on private-sector contracts and cash payments.

In total, the report claims that the CIA�s detention and interrogation program cost �well over $300 million in non-personnel costs.� One individual associated with the CIA program on the ground level told U.S. government investigators that the program had �more money than we could possibly spend we thought, and it turned out to be accurate.� The CIA program was devised by two contract psychologists, who had retired from the U.S. Air Force and played a �central role in the operation, assessment, and management of the CIA�s Detention and Interrogation Program,� the report says.

The two psychologists, James E. Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, are identified in the report under the pseudonyms Grayson Swigert and Hammond Dunbar. They set up a company in 2005 in order to facilitate their CIA work, around the time the CIA effectively outsourced operations related to its detention and interrogation program, the report says. In 2006, the company got a CIA contract valued at more than $180 million and the contractors received $81 million before the contract was terminated in 2009. The CIA also provided the company and its employees with an indemnification agreement as protection from lawsuits and has paid out $1.1 million under the deal to cover legal expenses. The company hired former CIA officers and under the contract the company provided interrogators, operational psychologists, debriefers, and security personnel at CIA detention sites.

But the contractors were not the only players who received large payments under the CIA�s enhanced interrogation program. According to the report, �the CIA provided millions of dollars in cash payments to foreign government officials� to get foreign governments to host and support secret CIA detention sites. For example, the report says that one country that hosted a secret CIA detention facility rejected the transfer of Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the architect of the 9/11 attacks, but the decision was reversed after the U.S. ambassador to that country intervened. The next month the CIA provided more than $1 million to an unidentified party in that country, the report says. According to a cable referenced in the report, �the CIA Station speculated that the change of position was �at least somewhat attributable� to our gift of $ [redacted] million�.� Khalid Shaykh Muhammad was reportedly held by the CIA in Poland and Romania before being transferred to Guantanamo Bay.

CIA officials were keenly aware about how easy it would be for them to use money to get certain countries to facilitate the CIA interrogation program. �Do you realize you can buy [Country Redacted] for $,� one chief of station is quoted as saying in the report. Coincidentally, the payments to foreign government officials to facilitate torture occurred at the same time that the U.S. Justice Department was operating the biggest enhanced Foreign Corrupt Practices Act enforcement effort ever, going after dozens of U.S. companies that had allegedly made payments to foreign government officials for business purposes. CIA headquarters also encouraged CIA Stations to construct �wish lists� and �think big� in terms of proposed financial assistance to the arms of foreign governments that could help with the program, the report says.

The CIA also provided millions of dollars to build and maintain secret detention sites in foreign countries, including two facilities that were never used. In 2002, the CIA provided $200,000 of funding for the construction of a detention site located in Afghanistan, although the report does not identify the country. The report calls the detention site Cobalt, but it has previously been referred to as the Salt Pit. The manager of Cobalt was recommended by the CIA Station in Afghanistan for $2,500 as a �cash award� for his �consistently superior work� four months after a terror suspect, Gul Rahman, died at the facility after being shackled to a cold cement wall.

According to the report, terrorism suspects that were mistakenly detained were paid after they were released and instructed not to speak about the experience. For example, Sayeb Habib, Modin Nik Mohammed and Ali Saeed Awadh, were paid by the CIA after being kept in solitary confinement, the report says. As part of a rendition program, German citizen Khalid al-Masri was rendered to an unidentified country, the report says. He was paid 14,500 euros at the time of his release. The CIA also had to spend more than $1 million to three third-party countries for the medical care of five detainees with acute ailments.

One person associated with the CIA program told government investigators that payments of more than $1 million were made without any paperwork, in cash, and out of boxes containing hundred dollar bills. �We never counted it. I�m not about to count that kind of money for a receipt,� the unidentified individual is quoted as saying by the report.

In a statement, CIA Director John Brennan said on Tuesday that the CIA acknowledges �that the detention and interrogation program had shortcomings and that the Agency made mistakes.� He added that �the intelligence gained from the program was critical to our understanding of al-Qa�ida and continues to inform our counterterrorism efforts to this day.�

Some more on these men

quote:

On the other side were James E. Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, two former military psychologists who had advised the agency to use waterboarding and other coercive methods. With the support of C.I.A. headquarters, they repeatedly insisted that Mr. Nashiri and other prisoners were still withholding crucial information, and that the application of sufficient pain and disorientation would eventually force them to disclose it. They thought the other faction was �running a �sissified� interrogation program,� the report says.

...

And Dr. Mitchell and Dr. Jessen, identified by pseudonyms in the report, had not conducted a single real interrogation. They had helped run a Cold War-era training program for the Air Force in which personnel were given a taste of the harsh treatment they might face if captured by Communist enemies. The program � called SERE, for Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape � had never been intended for use in American interrogations, and involved methods that had produced false confessions when used on American airmen held by the Chinese in the Korean War.

Yet the program allowed the psychologists to assess their own work � they gave it excellent grades � and to charge a daily rate of $1,800 each, four times the pay of other interrogators, to waterboard detainees. Dr. Mitchell and Dr. Jessen later started a company that took over and ran the C.I.A. program from 2005 until it was closed in 2009. The C.I.A. paid it $81 million, plus $1 million to protect the company and its employees from legal liability.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:02

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

duz posted:

Here's the site they put up to counter the report http://ciasavedlives.com/

I love the disclaimer:

quote:

This website was created by a group of former CIA officials with hundreds of years of combined service. They all have first-hand knowledge that the CIA's interrogation program was authorized, legal and effective. They also have in common that during its 5+ year investigation, the SSCI did not bother to contact them and seek their views.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:02

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

Chamale posted:

Throughout our history, the United States of America has done more than any other nation to stand up for freedom, democracy, and the inherent dignity and human rights of people around the world. The CIA used its enhanced interrogation techniques despite warnings from CIA medical personnel. Since the horrific attacks of 9/11, these public servants have worked tirelessly to devastate core al Qaeda, deliver justice to Osama bin Laden, disrupt terrorist operations and thwart terrorist attacks. CIA officers also threatened at least three detainees with harm to their families� to include threats to harm the children of a detainee, threats to sexually abuse the mother of a detainee, and a threat to "cut [a detainee's] mother's throat". Our intelligence professionals are patriots, and we are safer because of their heroic service and sacrifices.

In the years after 9/11, with legitimate fears of further attacks and with the responsibility to prevent more catastrophic loss of life, the previous administration faced agonizing choices about how to pursue al Qaeda and prevent additional terrorist attacks against our country. Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. At the same time, some of the actions that were taken were contrary to our values. The use of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of obtaining accurate information or gaining detainee cooperation.

Today�s report by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence details one element of our nation�s response to 9/11�the CIA�s detention and interrogation program, which I formally ended on one of my first days in office. Some of the plots that the CIA claimed to have "disrupted" as a result of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques were assessed by intelligence and law enforcement officials as being infeasible or ideas that were never operationalized. Moreover, these techniques did significant damage to America�s standing in the world and made it harder to pursue our interests with allies and partners. CIA officers (including personnel not trained in interrogation) could, at their discretion, strip a detainee naked, shackle him in the standing position for up to 72 hours, and douse the detainee repeatedly with cold water�without approval from CIA Headquarters.

As Commander in Chief, I have no greater responsibility than the safety and security of the American people. [CIA Officer 1] ordered that Gul Rahman be shackled to the wall of his cell in a position that required the detainee to rest on the bare concrete floor. That is why I have consistently supported the declassification of today�s report. The next day, the guards found Gul Rahman's dead body. But one of the strengths that makes America exceptional is our willingness to openly confront our past, face our imperfections, make changes and do better. Later, during the course of al-Nashiri's debriefings, while he was blindfolded, [CIA Officer 2] placed a pistol near al-Nashiri's head and operated acordless drill near al-Nashiri's body. Today is also a reminder that upholding the values we profess doesn�t make us weaker, it makes us stronger and that the United States of America will remain the greatest force for freedom and human dignity that the world has ever known.

And that is why I.....

No? That's it? Oh. Okay.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:02

New Division: Jun 23, 2004; I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

Reading this report, it's sort of struck me that there's a surprising amount of butt-focused torture in there.

American Dad was right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFTTZ9E_e2Y

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:04

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:05

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Grayson Swigert and Hammond Dunbar..

Pulp fiction government.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:08

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Looking at the appendix, there are three people, Zarmein, Bismullah, and Adel, with only one name listed. Makes me wonder if they don't have last names or if the US just don't know anything about these random people it's captured. Based on footnote on page 15 which says Zarmein is one of the detainees about whom it knew "very little" and the fact that they've all been released, it makes you wonder why they even captured them in the first place.

euphronius posted:

This is really bad.

Even worse is that they knowingly held two totally innocent people, one of whom was mentally ill, to use them as leverage against their families. One of them was held for 18x days, the other for 3x days.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:14

Chamale: Jul 11, 2010; I'm helping!

pathetic little tramp posted:

And that is why I.....

No? That's it? Oh. Okay.

That's not Obama's actual speech, of course he would never say exactly what the CIA did. I mashed up his "no nation is perfect" speech with excerpts from the redacted torture report.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:14

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

Salt Fish posted:

Has there been any indication that the Obama administration intends to materially punish any individual?

Yes! They already have! :unsmigghh:

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:19

Mr. Stingly: Sep 1, 2001; Satanic cop-killing henchman with a heart of gold

quote:

With the support of C.I.A. headquarters, they repeatedly insisted that Mr. Nashiri and other prisoners were still withholding crucial information, and that the application of sufficient pain and disorientation would eventually force them to disclose it.

Yet the program allowed the psychologists to assess their own work � they gave it excellent grades � and to charge a daily rate of $1,800 each, four times the pay of other interrogators, to waterboard detainees

So let me lay this scenario out for you. These guys are getting 1800 dollars a day per innocent man waterboarded. The CIA is scratching their heads going 'man these 26 guys really aren't talking. I think they just don't know anything...'

Guy McSteele and Rand Eagle, superstar psychologist Heirophants literally are about to lose out on some fat stacks of cash and go WHOA WHOA WHOA, don't be a pussy. This guy is holding out on you. Give us another...3 months of daily waterboardings and violent anal penetrations at 1800 bucks a pop and we'll get you the bin Ladens you need. These things just take time. And money.

I thought industrializing the prison system was insane, but turning anal rape into a cottage industry has got to be worth some kind of business achiever award for these two little strivers in their Virginia mansions wherever the gently caress they may be.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:23

Coach Sport: Jul 3, 2003; And we care about this shitty poster...why?

From the GBS thread:

What's with all the weird butt stuff? The CIA is literally raping prisoners. They're already literally torturing them which is similarly horrible, but the media has already worked pretty hard to rob the word Torture of its significance in this debate compared to the word Rape, and I'm pretty sure this qualifies as rape. These details should be headline news, it goes beyond techniques any kind of professional "interrogator" would use and into the realm of outright incompetence and sadism.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:26

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

It's arguably not rape because it was not part of a sexual experience, but, yeah. It probably was.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:28

New Division: Jun 23, 2004; I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

euphronius posted:

It's arguably not rape because it was not part of a sexual experience, but, yeah. It probably was.

Does it count if the CIA agent had a raging erection when he force fed hummus into his prisoner's anus?

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:31

emfive: Aug 6, 2011; Hey emfive, this is Alec. I am glad you like the mummy eating the bowl of shitty pasta with a can of 'parm.' I made that image for you way back when. I’m glad you enjoy it.

It makes more sense now that there was that one super hero in the Super Friends called "ButtJammer". That's an important role in Defending Our Freedoms it seems.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:34

Homura and Sickle: Apr 21, 2013

maybe they were raping prisoners because the CIA used literal rapists to conduct "interrogations"

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:37

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

euphronius posted:

It's arguably not rape because it was not part of a sexual experience, but, yeah. It probably was.

No it's not "arguably not rape". Also pick your loving battles, gently caress.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:38

Mr. Stingly: Sep 1, 2001; Satanic cop-killing henchman with a heart of gold

Jagchosis posted:

maybe they were raping prisoners because the CIA used literal rapists to conduct "interrogations"

Yea I guess we can figure out which guy got a little too into the rectal feeding.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:39

emfive: Aug 6, 2011; Hey emfive, this is Alec. I am glad you like the mummy eating the bowl of shitty pasta with a can of 'parm.' I made that image for you way back when. I’m glad you enjoy it.

Jagchosis posted:

maybe they were raping prisoners because the CIA used literal rapists to conduct "interrogations"

Well it's probably pretty hard to put together a team when you're telling normal people that the job will involve pumping smoothies into people's asses.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:39

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

The fact that the perps don't end up dead in a ditch somewhere for this shows it's going to happen again when someone asks the CIA to do something. What would stamp it out is a purge.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:40

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Panzeh posted:

The fact that the perps don't end up dead in a ditch somewhere for this shows it's going to happen again when someone asks the CIA to do something. What would stamp it out is a purge.

They'd have to think someone did something wrong for that to happen.

Burn the CIA to the ground.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:41

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

Chamale posted:

That's not Obama's actual speech, of course he would never say exactly what the CIA did. I mashed up his "no nation is perfect" speech with excerpts from the redacted torture report.

Hoisted on my own petard, masterful work.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:44

New Division: Jun 23, 2004; I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

Given that even the Church Commission ultimately failed to permanently tamp down CIA malfeasance, I don't know why anyone expects that they won't proceed to do similar things in the future. One thing's for sure, there's nothing resembling the Church Commission on the way. The general desire seems to be to quickly forget this or deny that it was even a bad thing.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:44

Pycckuu: Sep 13, 2011; by FactsAreUseless

I'm not really sure how to feel about any of this. It's disappointing but hardly surprising.

Zeitguiest, what do you think? You are our local expert on dungeon torture/rape here at D&D.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:48

MariusLecter: Sep 5, 2009; NI MUERTE NI MIEDO

All I can think now is the Jack Bauer pardoy from Boondocks that kicked people in the nuts but instead he causes rectal trauma.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:55

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Pycckuu posted:

Zeitguiest, what do you think? You are our local expert on dungeon torture/rape here at D&D.

You're dumb and should stop being passive/aggressive about things.

vvvv If we actually care about something we can find the money easily. That should tell you all you need to do know about the US Gov't.

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:56

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 16:55

poisonpill: Nov 8, 2009; The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.

It's surprising how well funded everything was. I mean we shut down the space program but spent a billion dollars shoving food up prisoners' butts. I am floored at how much cash flowed so freely. All you need are like forty bucks of wire and a car battery or something

# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:56

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