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net cafe scandal posted:Braid was a flipping awesome game with a great story, and I'm fairly hyped for the release of The Witness. How dare you, we're already having one horrible conversation, no thread can survive 2 at once! Alain Post posted:Yeah, and like, in a sense, I also think Gone Home is a "bad game", but it's also good at being something else. I hope that doesn't sound like nonsense. No it definitely does make sense to me. I think my biggest sticking point is that if you take away the game elements - if you were literally on rails, and you were forced to look at the things the devs wanted you to look at, when they wanted you to look at, Gone Home would be a worse experience. It wouldn't really work as a movie without being changed in a lot of really fundamental ways. Going back to the "a game is something the player controls" definition, I do agree that it falls apart once you consider things like theatre or modern art, so maybe a better definition might be "A piece of media where an abstract representation is fully controlled by a player". Alain Post posted:I'm not entirely sure that making one-to-one comparisons to film is going to be helpful past a point. The fact that video games aren't a visual medium is key too. Wasn't there a survival horror game that came out a few years ago with no graphics at all?
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Dec 10, 2014 17:05
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Alain Post posted:I'm not entirely sure that making one-to-one comparisons to film is going to be helpful past a point. the point is still the same: people have espoused essentialist points of views for most creative mediums in an attempt to define what truly makes something what it is, however it generally falls down as a general explanation as the nature of any creative human endeavor is one of cribbing and borrowing from other forms. its not meant to be a pure one-to-one comparison here, just an interesting look at a similar viewpoint towards another medium and how it has similarities to your current stance.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:06
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Stux posted:and nor does it mean that you are right about games as a whole. I am though.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:07
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exterminate all gamers
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Dec 10, 2014 17:08
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senae posted:How dare you, we're already having one horrible conversation, no thread can survive 2 at once! Well, the funny thing is that if they made it more of a game, it might also be worse. Like, I don't think it would have been improved as IF if it turned out that the dad was Atrus and locked everything up with sound slider puzzles. It's something that's exactly what it wants to be, in comparison to games that clumsily shoehorn in storylines that don't fit with the mechanics at all. (Hi, Bioshock Infinite, which clearly wanted to be about anything other than shooting people in the head!)
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Dec 10, 2014 17:08
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icantfindaname posted:exterminate all gamers No!!!!!! Respect gaming
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Dec 10, 2014 17:11
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Eonwe posted:No!!!!!! Respect gaming Gaming is very good.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:11
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Alain Post posted:Well, the funny thing is that if they made it more of a game, it might also be worse. Like, I don't think it would have been improved as IF if it turned out that the dad was Atrus and locked everything up with sound slider puzzles. It's something that's exactly what it wants to be, in comparison to games that clumsily shoehorn in storylines that don't fit with the mechanics at all. (Hi, Bioshock Infinite, which clearly wanted to be about anything other than shooting people in the head!) Yeah, this is exactly the problem with prescriptively talking about what counts as a game. I mean, it was literally a thing that a nontrivial number of people were mad that Gone Home didn't have ghosts in it (instead of winking at the possibility). Because it being another low-budget survival horror thing morons stream on Twitch and yell at would've made it way better.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:18
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here's my gone home story. there is an office in the house with a locked cabinet. it is a combination lock. i spent some time reading the letters and documents in the room and found a few important numbers, specifically a wedding anniversary, and a few other important sounding dates. thinking this was a video game puzzle, i tried to input the different numbers i discovered, but nothing happened. i then moved on to the next room, where the combination to the cabinet was just written on a piece of paper in the back of the room. this was a big missed opportunity, in my opinion, and the experience would have been better if gone home were "more of a game" (read: had an actual puzzle instead of holding your hand through the narrative)
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Dec 10, 2014 17:20
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Stux posted:the point is still the same: people have espoused essentialist points of views for most creative mediums in an attempt to define what truly makes something what it is, however it generally falls down as a general explanation as the nature of any creative human endeavor is one of cribbing and borrowing from other forms. its not meant to be a pure one-to-one comparison here, just an interesting look at a similar viewpoint towards another medium and how it has similarities to your current stance. I'm really trying to respond to this with something other than "well maybe games aren't art", but I don't think anyone wants to do that. Sorry. To put it another way (that's really just a roundabout way of saying that), there's something very specific and "functional" I want to get out of games that doesn't really apply to the ways I engage with film/music/whatever.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:29
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Eonwe posted:No!!!!!! Respect gaming oh i don't want to touch the games. just the people who make and play them. im not gonna go all book burning, rather people burning
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Dec 10, 2014 17:37
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icantfindaname posted:oh i don't want to touch the games. just the people who make and play them. im not gonna go all book burning, rather people burning I think that people who play games with each other and have fun while also doing normal stuff are okay. People who take it too far and act like it's the only thing on the planet are probably unhealthy though and we can keep laughing at them and come together on this.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:39
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gone home is mostly not a game but it is art, and the people who dislike it should be burned at the stake for being terrible nerds/shipped to siberia for reeducation.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:40
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icantfindaname posted:gone home is mostly not a game but it is art, and the people who dislike it should be burned at the stake for being terrible nerds/shipped to siberia for reeducation. Bold move. I think that would be wrong, though.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:41
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Alain Post posted:Bold move. I think that would be wrong, though. Are we talking logistically wrong here or...
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Dec 10, 2014 17:44
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Soral posted:in payday 2, the female fbi agents have 30 hp while the male fbi agents have 50 hp. this is possibly extremely hosed up, and a pressing social issue. Amusingly the female agents are way more dangerous than the male ones regardless, since they universally carry dirty harry revolvers The dirty harry revolver is the most damaging pistol in the game and can gently caress up even the most heavily armored criminal
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Dec 10, 2014 17:44
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Whether Gone Home qualifies as a game or not is beside the point because either way it's just loving boring and super short. Either it's a short, boring game or it's a short, boring not-game, who gives a poo poo. If you want to play a good game featuring a well written female character then just get Remember Me or Mirror's Edge because like Gone Home they have good characters and feels, but unlike Gone Home they have more gameplay and interactivity than a flash game from Newgrounds at the turn of the century.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:46
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Can we talk about consumerism, AAA, and the phenomenon of "real gamers" defining themselves by their amount of involvement with the previous two ITT?
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Dec 10, 2014 18:24
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Describe something as art and any decent human will immediately feel some sort of subtle, twisted shame at having done so. This is because art isn't a real thing that something can be and everyone knows that implicitly. Instead, I think the term "feels" should be employed, because it means the same thing, but in a way that is sympathetic to the human soul. If the ending of Bastion gave you a powerful feely feel, it is best to accept what your heart knows, instead of championing the experience to others with a honorific that you know you don't understand, and that you know nobody else understands or agrees on, and never will, and also they will probably think you are a douchebag. IMO.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:24
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Schnedwob posted:Can we talk about consumerism, AAA, and the phenomenon of "real gamers" defining themselves by their amount of involvement with the previous two ITT? AAA is played out. Any true gamer will endlessly complain about the major game distributors while championing B-list studios that release the same exact type of games except uglier, glitchier and harder to control.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:29
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Schnedwob posted:Can we talk about consumerism, AAA, and the phenomenon of "real gamers" defining themselves by their amount of involvement with the previous two ITT? entertainment without artistic value is pornography. they're identifying themselves as proud consumers of pornography
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Dec 10, 2014 18:36
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exquisite tea posted:AAA is played out. Any true gamer will endlessly complain about the major game distributors while championing B-list studios that release the same exact type of games except uglier, glitchier and harder to control. There's more of the type he mentioned though. Most games are bad because the indies and B-listers do what you said and don't learn from the mistakes of the AAA studios because well the 8th lovely Assassin's Creed still made a billion dollars keep going.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:36
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icantfindaname posted:entertainment without artistic value is pornography. they're identifying themselves as proud consumers of pornography Woah lol. This is gonna ruffle some feathers..
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Dec 10, 2014 18:40
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Early access is a tax on gamers with no self control Discuss
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Dec 10, 2014 18:40
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net cafe scandal posted:Woah lol. This is gonna ruffle some feathers.. *Alain Post lights the True Gamer Signal
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Dec 10, 2014 18:41
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Schnedwob posted:Can we talk about consumerism, AAA, and the phenomenon of "real gamers" defining themselves by their amount of involvement with the previous two ITT? AAA on its own fills a spot like blockbuster movies etc. thats no judgement on quality in either case, most people enjoy at least one or two big series somewhere. indie games are great as they allow for risks to be taken in a way that hasnt exist for a while, as well as more traditional games with different viewpoints or subjects not covered in AAA. on consumerism though yeah for real, gamers are professional consumers at this point and its a bit odd. you are very much defined by the games you buy and bad practice or lovely behavior is basically completely ignored as long as the games keep coming and if you dont follow with this or believe that maybe AAAs could do with a bit of a tweak you arent a real gamer.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:44
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Eonwe posted:Early access is a tax on gamers with no self control i think it has its place, but its increasingly becoming an excuse for studios who can afford to make a full game anyway to get money for something that isnt finished and has no end date.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:45
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Eonwe posted:Early access is a tax on gamers with no self control I can second this, as I am exactly the kind of moron who buys early access stuff despite only having it work out once or twice. Stux posted:on consumerism though yeah for real, gamers are professional consumers at this point and its a bit odd. you are very much defined by the games you buy and bad practice or lovely behavior is basically completely ignored as long as the games keep coming and if you dont follow with this or believe that maybe AAAs could do with a bit of a tweak you arent a real gamer. Is there a term for "enjoying exactly what you're advertised to enjoy"? Because yeah, that.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:05
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icantfindaname posted:entertainment without artistic value is pornography. they're identifying themselves as proud consumers of pornography
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Dec 10, 2014 19:50
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Pornography is good.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:50
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Alain Post posted:Pornography is good. Sure, if you love to jack off.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:55
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net cafe scandal posted:Sure, if you love to jack off. I'm in luck then
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Dec 10, 2014 19:56
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net cafe scandal posted:Sure, if you love to jack off. Good news, gamer.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:58
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senae posted:It wouldn't really work as a movie without being changed in a lot of really fundamental ways. This is because the story is weak. It has nothing to do with games.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:09
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So is the Witness just maze puzzles because it seemed that way when people asked the question and J Blow threw a fit.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:50
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Stux posted:i did, then everyone ignored it because apparently no one can explain the difference between the stanley parable and gone home wrt its reception with gamers one game was fun and one game was not fun
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Dec 10, 2014 21:13
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T-Shaped posted:one game was fun and one game was not fun 
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Dec 10, 2014 21:50
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That guy is right, but the implication that doing violence is bad is wrong.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:55
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What about killing robots and undead and other nonliving or soulless things.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgYXCKFc_ys Robots have soul, and funk.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:05
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