|
 We started talking about Heroes in the Flash thread, and I am in the middle of rewatching the series (currently early on in season 2) and here we are. It's coming back in 2015... Thursday's at 8pm ET on NBC  ...with a whole new* cast! *apart from Jack Coleman coming back as Noah Bennet 
Valeyard fucked around with this message at 15:27 on May 11, 2015 |
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 09:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 23:30 |
|
|
So yeah, early on in season 2 and it's not anywhere near as bad as people seem to think. What is the opposite of rose tinted glasses?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 09:26
|
|
|
Clarity of thought and opinion. Though I'm of the mind that Heroes started going into the toilet at the end of season one.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 09:40
|
|
|
Heroes was interesting and fun, then really bad for a while, then really really bad for a while after that, then kind of interesting and fun again. Its main problem was its sheer inconsistency from episode to episode and total inability to build a coherent plot or a character arc. It was literally like one of those "everyone takes a turn telling a story" games where one kid didn't like the other kid and would go out of their way to ignore the things they added or directly contravene them as soon as they stopped talking. From interviews given after the show finished, this was apparently roughly how things worked in the show's writing process. They had no overarching vision and very little editing, and each person often wrote their episodes in a vacuum with no demands on them to fit in with the events of even one episode prior, despite the show being a serialised drama. This is why you got stuff like that bizarre stretch of episodes in season 3 where Sylar is good, then evil again, then good again, then evil again, every other episode. It reminds me of Glee, actually. A show that tapped into a zeitgeist, got a budget and spot in the public eye way beyond what the actual creative talent behind it deserved, and flailed around everywhere spewing nonsense as a result.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 09:52
|
|
|
Valeyard posted:So yeah, early on in season 2 and it's not anywhere near as bad as people seem to think. What is the opposite of rose tinted glasses? Myopia? I tend to be of the opinion that the show was poor back in Season 1 a lot of the time too, and tended to promise way more than it could deliver (particularly in terms of super-powered spectacle). It's particularly ironic that they did this, given the marketing that surrounded the show -- Heroes was the show which promised to "fix" the problems L O S T had, and answer its questions quickly, rather than let them simmer on for seasons at a time. But Heroes just ended up blueballing people in an entirely different way. Though it also had crap actors, slow moving plots, and post-Season 1, no real sense that the show was driving towards anything. I know that a lot of people suggest that the downturn commonly observed in Season 2 was due to the Writer's Strike, but honestly, all the strike affected was the last few episodes -- and even then, it forced them to refilm the last ten minutes to their finale, not do anything else. Those last minute changes don't really explain or excuse away the endless plots where Peter was trapped in Ireland, Hiro trapped in Ancient Japan, or Sylar being trapped with the Wonder Twins. Not to mention: DL's death ridiculous death and Nikki's third personality; wasting Dana Davis, Kristen Bell and Joanna Cassidy; leaving Peter's girlfriend in the future and then erasing that future; and the most pointless flashback episode ever. Basically, I'm in no way convinced that this show has had time to recover. It was pretty abominable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2014 09:59
|
|
|
Of all the loving shows to give a second chance...
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2014 04:48
|
|
|
Ali Larter ruined Heroes for me. Absolutely terrible acting + boring as poo poo superpower = fast-forward through all her scenes
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2014 06:46
|
|
|
So will there be any continuity with the old show? How do you have Noah Bennett without his Claire Bear? Unless it's a total reboot and he's back to just being HRG, the nameless Evil Agent with no backstory.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2014 06:57
|
|
|
Wasn't the original idea to have each season be a stand alone story? A bunch of separate stories eventually intertwining and culminating at the end would've been fine. I'm on board with anything that would've prevented the horrible storylines in season 2 and 3 (gave up at that point).
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2014 07:56
|
|
|
It's been a while since I watched Heroes. Did Noah survive at the end of the show? The show had so much promise but then Sylar kept coming back and kept gaining more and more powers and it just got to be too much.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2014 08:13
|
|
|
I remember season 1 being good, season 2 being overly okay (up until the writers strike where the storyline abruptly stopped. Also, Hiro going back in time because time travel as a power is too broken to write compelling drama about). And season 3 was where a brand new crop of writers took over and introduced a bunch of new characters, did a bunch of stupid poo poo with existing characters (Sylar and Peter are brothers! Oh wait, never mind, jk. Ali Larter triplets! Oh, and Hiro is now mentally challenged since we still haven't figured out how to use a time traveler in our show) and then the original writers came back for like the last five episodes. Which is funny, because as soon as they came back, ALL of those new characters immediately died or vanished completely. Also, I think Claire was a lesbian? I never watched season 4, so I have no idea how that turned out. I'll probably give this relaunch a chance, since the people doing will have had a decade to figure out what went wrong with the original show and find new, exciting ways to gently caress up superpower people. Sushipants fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Dec 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 04:48
|
|
|
I, like a lot of people I think, WANTED to like Heroes but it just degraded in quality too much by the end. If they want to take the idea of Heroes and fix the problems the original show had then I'm all on board with a remake. Hopefully they learn from recent superhero movies/shows that have been good lately.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 05:50
|
|
|
I still don't believe this is the show NBC is banking money on to get some of that sweet superhero show money. I never watched past season 3 so I don't know what happened in there or if it got any better. Highlight of the show as President Worf. Also someone find a way to make Mr. A do a watch of seasons 1-4. I want him to lose his poo poo watching the constant character assassinations and complete 180s.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 15:18
|
|
|
I think the main problem with the original heroes was that some of the people they'd created (Sylar, Peter and Hiro in particular) were so mind-bendingly powerful as heroes that it quickly became impossible to write a plot for them where they couldn't use their God-like powers to get out of it. Hence Hiro's time-travel/braindamage poo poo, and all the other Peter and Sylar stuff that I can't remember. Those powers worked very well at the beginning, but when those three got 'good' at using them, you can't do much anymore. The only way it could have worked was to up the special effects budget for every episodes to Avengers levels, and that was never gonna happen. Hence that stupid loving Peter/Sylar showdown that showed as different colour lights playing under a door.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
I've made it a few episodes into the S3 rewatch but I just can't go on 
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2014 18:51
|
|
|
I think I remember why I thought Heroes sucked towards the end, and I probably said it in those threads. They would come up with cool ideas and then throw them away because they were trying too hard to actually be like a comic book. Comic books have twists, long storylines that suddenly end or change, stuff that's forgotten, characters that go face/heel multiple times. And like a 30 year soap opera, it's all barely remembered. So Heroes had neat ideas like the origins of the group the Petrelli's put together with the original superfriends. Or characters like Adam Monroe, or Mr. Petrelli. And then they'd just blow it up and totally change things. Good guys become assholes. Bad guys become good. And back again. "Heh, you think Adam Monroe is some superevil, complicated, powerful ancient character, watch as he's taken out like a candle by this NEW ULTIMATE POWERED GUY."  And they don't even really satisfactorily end his arc. They just constantly threw poo poo against a wall to see if it stuck, and then moved on.If they can run it like an actual tv show, with a long term 5 year plan and plotting and character arcs that don't shift in the wind for no good reason they might succeed this time. Think of a show like The 100 where we see characters going from bad to good, or good to bad (or appearing to be bad but they are actually good, just misunderstood). Compare a character like Kane or Finn to Peter on Heroes or Mohinder becoming douchebags for no good reason, then good again. It's amazing how much better The 100 pulls it off.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2014 07:01
|
|
|
Still has pretty neat speedsters though. They really should have went with the every seasons being it's own cast idea.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2014 18:20
|
|
|
Valeyard posted:So yeah, early on in season 2 and it's not anywhere near as bad as people seem to think. What is the opposite of rose tinted glasses? Valeyard posted:I've made it a few episodes into the S3 rewatch but I just can't go on You were warned!
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2014 18:34
|
|
|
The power level of the main characters was the least of the show's problems. It's fine to have overpowered characters who, in theory, can step in and fix any problem. The problem was that the writers felt the need to continuously reset, rollback, or reboot their powers instead of make any attempt to write a story that can't immediately be solved with powers. Well, that's not completely fair. They did try to create mysteries that required characters do more than throw their powers at them, but the writers room was never on the same page and contradicted themselves scene to scene. I'll be excited for this if, and only if, there's a fairly small writing team and a tightly planned arc. Anything else is just a repeat of the lovely choices that got the show cancelled in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2014 18:47
|
|
|
Reading this thread shows how unmemorable the later seasons of this show were to me. Hiro had brain damage? Sylar and Peter were brothers?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
Highly Unnecessary posted:Reading this thread shows how unmemorable the later seasons of this show were to me. Hiro had brain damage? Sylar and Peter were brothers? Or when Peter left his girlfriend in that post-apocalyptic New York.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2014 20:47
|
|
|
Mister Kingdom posted:Or when Peter left his girlfriend in that post-apocalyptic New York. And didn't that future eventually become un-made? So he ditched her there, then she got erased from existence. Anyone else remember the solar eclipse that lasted, like, four hours?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2014 23:41
|
|
|
Highly Unnecessary posted:Reading this thread shows how unmemorable the later seasons of this show were to me. Hiro had brain damage? Sylar and Peter were brothers? Arthur and Angela Petrelli told Sylar he was their son. Then Sylar stole somebody's 'lie detector' super power and found out Arthur was lying and killed him
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
Emerson Cod posted:The power level of the main characters was the least of the show's problems. Well, it wouldn't have been a problem if the writers had known how to deal with it, but since they clearly didn't it was a pretty big problem.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 02:50
|
|
|
Is Noah Benett in the new series going to be revamped for this new series or will he have all the memories/experience from the old series into this new series? I really wish Adam would come back as a villain. He seemed interesting.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 04:47
|
|
|
Heroes just kind of sucked sometime during season two and then it just got worse and worse until no one remembered it existed. I'm okay with it getting a second shot, but I get the feeling it's not going to do much better. At the very least, I'd like to see Coleman do Noah Bennet again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 06:23
|
|
|
Heroes: Reborn huh? Why? Was Heroes: Sins Past or Heroes: Onslaught or Heroes: Identity Crisis already taken or something? I mean if you're going to title your superhero show after a bad comic book you could go way worse.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 09:11
|
|
|
Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Heroes just kind of sucked sometime during season two and then it just got worse and worse until no one remembered it existed. I honestly feel like TV in general has come a long way since Heroes originally aired, so I can see them doing a much better job the second time around when they aren't the only superpowered show in town. And their competition is actually putting out good poo poo so they pretty much have to as well in order to be remotely successful. Though as much as Noah Bennet was the only consistently good character, I do think it's a pretty huge mistake to not just literally scrap every trace of that awful show in terms of continuity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 10:17
|
|
|
Deadpool posted:Heroes: Reborn huh? Why? Was Heroes: Sins Past or Heroes: Onslaught or Heroes: Identity Crisis already taken or something? I mean if you're going to title your superhero show after a bad comic book you could go way worse. Heroes: Deadpool Corps
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 14:47
|
|
|
Hakkesshu posted:Though as much as Noah Bennet was the only consistently good character, I do think it's a pretty huge mistake to not just literally scrap every trace of that awful show in terms of continuity. In fact, why are they calling this new show Heroes? Why not just say "Hey, it's a new super hero show, and we've got that one guy people actually liked from Heroes back to play a similar character."
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 15:27
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:In fact, why are they calling this new show Heroes? Why not just say "Hey, it's a new super hero show, and we've got that one guy people actually liked from Heroes back to play a similar character." Easy, because Heroes was popular as poo poo overseas, and technically in america for a while. People remember the first season as being good. So it's a much easier sell to say; "Heroes: We promise this time we won't gently caress it up, please at least be curious enough to watch the first few episodes where we will heavily pimp how awesome HRG was, Seriously, we know how loving stupid Bug Mohinder was, won't happen again. Plus Special effects are cheaper now so we won't hide an awesome fight behind a flashing door" Essentially Heroes is an established IP that people know about so they are more likely to check it out saying hey, I liked the first season of this show, lets see what this new one is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 15:57
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:In fact, why are they calling this new show Heroes? Why not just say "Hey, it's a new super hero show, and we've got that one guy people actually liked from Heroes back to play a similar character." AFAIK its not actually a new series and is just a mini.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 16:13
|
|
|
The thing to remember about the lights flashing underneath the door was that at the time it happened it was a loving brilliant hook for the viewers. Season 1, watched in a vacuum for the first time by all of us was an amazing experience. The show moved quickly, it seemed to have a solid storyline, and the effects were top notch for the time. The episode "Company Man" was legitimately awesome TV writing and what most of us thought were movie level special effects as a literally melting Claire emerged from her irradiated home and then regenerated before our eyes. So the lights flashing underneath the door seemed completely acceptable, because we all were 100% sure that it was a tease for something that would happen in the last episode. Season 1 seemed like it was all leading up to this amazing climax and every episode along the way just pumped us up more and more... ...then the final episode of season 1 dropped a giant turd on our laps and most of us were really upset. Everything after that was poo poo that everyone else here has already talked about. Season 1 of Heroes pisses me off so much, because I remember how excited we all were when it was airing. Holy poo poo, what a waste.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 16:20
|
|
|
Anonymous Zebra posted:The thing to remember about the lights flashing underneath the door was that at the time it happened it was a loving brilliant hook for the viewers. Yeah with the exception of Mohinder using his door holding power, that scene was fantastic. Everyone got so geeked out over it and hyped everyone up for the finale. Sylar vs. Peter was something people used to get excited over That episode was fantastic. Angry, super-powered Peter and angry, super-powered Hiro going around loving poo poo up was legitimately entertaining stuff WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Dec 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 17:57
|
|
|
I remember mocking the poo poo out of that scene, but yeah, I guess at that point I was still pretty hyped for the final episode and the Peter/Sylar fight.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
Well, at least they bring the best character back.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 18:02
|
|
|
Tarquinn posted:Well, at least they bring the best character back. Eh. Sylar's not coming back. Like Zachary Quinto, made that character better than it had any right to be, and continued to be the best part even when given absolute poo poo scripts to work with.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 18:05
|
|
|
Trying to keep Sylar relevant is one of the bad parts as it went on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 18:13
|
|
|
Valeyard posted:So yeah, early on in season 2 and it's not anywhere near as bad as people seem to think. What is the opposite of rose tinted glasses? It really falls completely off the rails around the end of the season .the Writer's Strike definitely deserves some of the blame but the entire premise was pretty flawed from the start. IE how could Mendez have made paintings of a future that wouldn't have existed while he was still alive. Also you could see the Internet writing that show almost in real time. The Internet would bitch about something and 3 episodes later it'd be gone and replaced with somethibg the fans claimed to want, though always executed terribly. Hail Mr. Satan! fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Dec 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 18:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 23:30 |
|
|
I still do like the first season, the Nikki/Micah/DL poo poo excluded. Far from perfect, but entertaining. But then I gave up like halfway into the third season, sometime after Mohinder became MohinderFly.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2014 18:34
|
|
