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evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) — American officials say the U.S. and Cuba will start talks to normalize full diplomatic relations as part of the most significant shift in U.S. policy toward the communist island in decades.

Officials say the U.S. is also looking to open an embassy in Havana in the coming months. The moves are part of an agreement between the U.S. and Cuba that also includes the release of American Alan Gross and three Cubans jailed in Florida for spying.

Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida, said the agreement includes normalizing banking and trade ties with Cuba.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/us-cuba-talks-normalize-relations

There's also some prisoner who is being released and the release of three Cubans jailed for spying (the US denies these are related and says the swap is those three for an unnamed other person accused of some sort of tie to US intelligence services). There's little news yet, but Rubio being quoted makes it sound like this might be somewhat bipartisan. Nothing I've seen specifically mentions the embargo, but I can't imagine how it could normalize trade ties without ending it.

Obama will be giving a statement at noon about this, presumably there will be a number of leaks between now and then.

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Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


This is pretty amazing. I wonder if Raul has had to agree to any free trade or liberal economic reforms for this to happen.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Looks like I was wrong and Rubio isn't quite down with the agreement:

quote:

Some Democratic and Republican lawmakers were sharply critical of the deal. “Let’s be clear, this was not a ‘humanitarian’ act by the Castro regime. It was a swap of convicted spies for an innocent American,” said Senator Robert Menendez, Democrat of New Jersey and the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. “President Obama’s actions have vindicated the brutal behavior of the Cuban government.”

Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, considered a prospect for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination, told The Associated Press: “This is going to do absolutely nothing to further human rights and democracy in Cuba. But it potentially goes a long way in providing the economic lift that the Castro regime needs to become permanent fixtures in Cuba for generations to come.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/18/w...WT.nav=top-news

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.

evilweasel posted:

Looks like I was wrong and Rubio isn't quite down with the agreement:


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/18/w...WT.nav=top-news

Well, maybe he would be if it weren't being done by a black Democrat unconstitutional Marxist usurper.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Apparently lifting the embargo requires Congress, so that's iffy at best but the White House will officially support ending it:

quote:

"What we are doing is beginning the normalization of relations of the United States and Cuba," the official said. "President Obama has long believed that engagement is a better tool than isolation and nowhere is that clear than Cuba, where we have seen the failure of a policy of isolation for the last 50 years."

The White House said that Obama would order Secretary of State John Kerry to begin discussions with Cuban officials on re-establishing diplomatic relations and high-level discussions and visits between the countries are expected to follow. The opening of the embassy will happen "as soon as possible," an official said, noting that "the decision has been made" to normalize relations. The main issues to be resolved are logistical, the official said.

Other expected changes include increased travel permission for Americans to visit Cuba, an official review of Cuba's current designation as a state sponsor of terrorism and increased coordination between the United States and Cuba on issues like disaster response and drug trafficking.

As for the Cuban embargo, officials said that the White House supports efforts to end it, but knows congressional approval for lifting it is unlikely in the immediate future.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/obama-united-states-cuba-embassy

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Well, maybe he would be if it weren't being done by a black Democrat unconstitutional Marxist usurper.

Also he might support it if anyone clued him in he has no hope for the Republican nomination in 2016.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Fun Shoe
But now who will keep the lovely domestic cigar industry afloat?

duz
Jul 11, 2005

Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost


Vox has more details

quote:

  • Diplomatic opening: The U.S. will take steps toward restoring diplomatic ties with Cuba, severed since 1961.
  • Embassy in Havana: This will include the goal of reopening a US embassy in Havana in the coming months. The embassy has been closed for over half a century.
  • Release alleged Cuban spies: The US will release three Cubans who were convicted of espionage and imprisoned in the US: Gerardo Hernandez, Luis Medina, and Antonio Guerrero. All three prisoners were members of the "Wasp Network," a group that spied on prominent members of the Cuban-American community. CNN reports that Hernandez, the group's leader, was also linked to the downing of two two civilian planes operated by Brothers to the Rescue, a U.S.-based dissident group.
  • Easing business and travel restrictions: The U.S. will make it easier for Americans to obtain licenses to do business in Cuba, and to travel to the island. CNN reports that the new rules still won't permit American tourism, but will make it easier to visit for other purposes.
  • Easing banking restrictions: Americans will be able to use credit and debit cards while in Cuba.
  • Higher remittance limits: Americans will be able to send up to $2000 per year to family members in Cuba. Cuban-American remittances are a major source of income for many Cuban families.
  • Small-scale imports of Cuban cigars and alcohol: US travelers will be able to import up to $400 in goods from Cuba, including $100 in alcohol and tobacco products.
  • Review of basis for sanctions: Secretary of State John Kerry has been ordered to review Cuba's status as a "state sponsor of terrorism." If his review determines that Cuba no longer deserves that status, that will be a first step towards lifting at least some US sanctions.

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost
New official drink of D&D:

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
This will be great if this happens.

Quidam Viator
Jan 24, 2001

ask me about how voting Donald Trump was worth 400k and counting dead.
If I were in the "gently caress-it" stage of the presidency that Obama's in, this is exactly what I would do. Look at the half-assed, partisan complaints from people like Menendez. There just aren't that many cold-warriors left, and yet that's the only demographic that these conservatives can think to appeal to.

Exactly what could Obama do that would even approach, let alone reach the levels of treason and anti-American destruction he's accused of, accusations that a significant part of the US electorate believes? poo poo, at this point, he can write executive orders on immigration, normalize relations with Cuba, and do just about anything else the executive branch can do, and still not be as much of a comical bogeyman as he's been made out to be. Here's hoping for more angry Obama unilateral action in the face of a lovely congress.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Apparently the release included some US "intelligence asset" who had been imprisoned for 20 years but that nobody seems to have any details on. Rubio has also vowed that Congress will not lift the embargo, so look for that to be an issue in 2016.

esquilax
Jan 3, 2003

Is Diaz-Canel still the obvious successor? And is anything known about his politics?

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Solkanar512 posted:

New official drink of D&D:



Havana Club is a legit rum. It's easily the best in its price range and it boggles my mind that you yanks don't have it readily available.

wheez the roux
Aug 2, 2004
THEY SHOULD'VE GIVEN IT TO LYNCH

Death to the Seahawks. Death to Seahawks posters.

Solkanar512 posted:

New official drink of D&D:



i've been bringing bottles of HC and boxes of cigars back with me every time im in spain and canada, now its going to ruin the novelty of my stash . fuckers

wheez the roux
Aug 2, 2004
THEY SHOULD'VE GIVEN IT TO LYNCH

Death to the Seahawks. Death to Seahawks posters.

V. Illych L. posted:

Havana Club is a legit rum. It's easily the best in its price range and it boggles my mind that you yanks don't have it readily available.

añejo 7 años is like 12eur in spain lol it rules. barrel proof is my poo poo though

ReidRansom
Oct 25, 2004


evilweasel posted:

Rubio has also vowed that Congress will not lift the embargo, so look for that to be an issue in 2016.

I wonder if he's getting ahead of himself out of his own ambitions. The embargo is broadly unpopular, even among many republicans, and even in a congress that has been incredibly petty and vindictive, scuttling this is going to look and play poorly. I don't doubt there will be those who try, but I get the feeling Rubio isn't speaking for as much of his party as he thinks he is.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

ReidRansom posted:

I wonder if he's getting ahead of himself out of his own ambitions. The embargo is broadly unpopular, even among many republicans, and even in a congress that has been incredibly petty and vindictive, scuttling this is going to look and play poorly. I don't doubt there will be those who try, but I get the feeling Rubio isn't speaking for as much of his party as he thinks he is.

That's a good point, I'm not seeing anyone but Rubio running their mouth on the Republican side yet. However given this Congress I wonder if the mere fact that Obama normalized relations will be enough to make it popular enough it survives until at least 2016. No Republicans in Congress are really eager to support anything related to Obama.

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011
Well it only took 53 loving years

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Rubio is definitely going to be leading the charge against it

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), another member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was equally blunt. Appearing on Fox News on Wednesday, the Cuban American slammed the administration for the expected announcement, which he called "absurd."

"It's absurd and it's part of a long record of coddling dictators and tyrants that this administration has established," Rubio said.

The administration, Rubio added, is "constantly giving unilateral concessions in exchange for nothing."

Fritz Coldcockin
Nov 7, 2005

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

Rubio is definitely going to be leading the charge against it

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), another member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was equally blunt. Appearing on Fox News on Wednesday, the Cuban American slammed the administration for the expected announcement, which he called "absurd."

"It's absurd and it's part of a long record of coddling dictators and tyrants that this administration has established," Rubio said.

The administration, Rubio added, is "constantly giving unilateral concessions in exchange for nothing."

Congratulations, Agua Bottle, you just won the support of the ten remaining Cuban exiles.

What a loving idiot.

Vaall
Sep 17, 2014

Ghost of Mussolini posted:

Well it only took 53 loving years

Seriously gently caress Fidel Castro and his government during much of those years.

ReidRansom
Oct 25, 2004


evilweasel posted:

That's a good point, I'm not seeing anyone but Rubio running their mouth on the Republican side yet. However given this Congress I wonder if the mere fact that Obama normalized relations will be enough to make it popular enough it survives until at least 2016. No Republicans in Congress are really eager to support anything related to Obama.

I think what it will probably come down to is if the leadership and the business & money wing of the party support it. They can lose the culture warriors and no-to-everything-Obama people and still pass it with democrat support as long as Boehner and McConnell are willing to appease the money set.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
The last time we "normalized" relations with a country, it was Vietnam during Clinton's administration. I think that turned out ok, didn't it?

This is long past due. We have relations with countries a lot worse than Cuba, and the only reason we kept up the embargo was because of voters in Florida, as well as the red face we got after Bay of Pigs. It's been 53 years, let's actually make some drat progress in relations.

ElegantFugue
Jun 5, 2012

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

The administration, Rubio added, is "constantly giving unilateral concessions in exchange for nothing."

Well, he was trying to do that, but the Tea Party just wouldn't take yes for an answer!

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

From the White House:

quote:

Fact Sheet: Charting a New Course on Cuba
Today, the United States is taking historic steps to chart a new course in our relations with Cuba and to further engage and empower the Cuban people. We are separated by 90 miles of water, but brought together through the relationships between the two million Cubans and Americans of Cuban descent that live in the United States, and the 11 million Cubans who share similar hopes for a more positive future for Cuba.

It is clear that decades of U.S. isolation of Cuba have failed to accomplish our enduring objective of promoting the emergence of a democratic, prosperous, and stable Cuba. At times, longstanding U.S. policy towards Cuba has isolated the United States from regional and international partners, constrained our ability to influence outcomes throughout the Western Hemisphere, and impaired the use of the full range of tools available to the United States to promote positive change in Cuba. Though this policy has been rooted in the best of intentions, it has had little effect – today, as in 1961, Cuba is governed by the Castros and the Communist party.

We cannot keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. It does not serve America’s interests, or the Cuban people, to try to push Cuba toward collapse. We know from hard-learned experience that it is better to encourage and support reform than to impose policies that will render a country a failed state. With our actions today, we are calling on Cuba to unleash the potential of 11 million Cubans by ending unnecessary restrictions on their political, social, and economic activities. In that spirit, we should not allow U.S. sanctions to add to the burden of Cuban citizens we seek to help.

Today, we are renewing our leadership in the Americas. We are choosing to cut loose the anchor of the past, because it is entirely necessary to reach a better future – for our national interests, for the American people, and for the Cuban people.

Key Components of the Updated Policy Approach:

Since taking office in 2009, President Obama has taken steps aimed at supporting the ability of the Cuban people to gain greater control over their own lives and determine their country’s future. Today, the President announced additional measures to end our outdated approach, and to promote more effectively change in Cuba that is consistent with U.S. support for the Cuban people and in line with U.S. national security interests.

Major elements of the President’s new approach include:

Establishing diplomatic relations with Cuba

The President has instructed the Secretary of State to immediately initiate discussions with Cuba on the re-establishment of diplomatic relations with Cuba, which were severed in January 1961. · In the coming months, we will re-establish an embassy in Havana and carry out high-level exchanges and visits between our two governments as part of the normalization process. As an initial step, the Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs will lead the U.S. Delegation to the next round of U.S.-Cuba Migration Talks in January 2015, in Havana. · U.S. engagement will be critical when appropriate and will include continued strong support for improved human rights conditions and democratic reforms in Cuba and other measures aimed at fostering improved conditions for the Cuban people.

· The United States will work with Cuba on matters of mutual concern and that advance U.S. national interests, such as migration, counternarcotics, environmental protection, and trafficking in persons, among other issues.

Adjusting regulations to more effectively empower the Cuban people

· The changes announced today will soon be implemented via amendments to regulations of the Departments of the Treasury and Commerce. Our new policy changes will further enhance our goal of empowering the Cuban population.

· Our travel and remittance policies are helping Cubans by providing alternative sources of information and opportunities for self-employment and private property ownership, and by strengthening independent civil society.

· These measures will further increase people-to-people contact; further support civil society in Cuba; and further enhance the free flow of information to, from, and among the Cuban people. Persons must comply with all provisions of the revised regulations; violations of the terms and conditions are enforceable under U.S. law.

Facilitating an expansion of travel under general licenses for the 12 existing categories of travel to Cuba authorized by law

· General licenses will be made available for all authorized travelers in the following existing categories: (1) family visits; (2) official business of the U.S. government, foreign governments, and certain intergovernmental organizations; (3) journalistic activity; (4) professional research and professional meetings; (5) educational activities; (6) religious activities; (7) public performances, clinics, workshops, athletic and other competitions, and exhibitions; (8) support for the Cuban people; (9) humanitarian projects; (10) activities of private foundations or research or educational institutes; (11) exportation, importation, or transmission of information or information materials; and (12) certain export transactions that may be considered for authorization under existing regulations and guidelines.

· Travelers in the 12 categories of travel to Cuba authorized by law will be able to make arrangements through any service provider that complies with the U.S. Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) regulations governing travel services to Cuba, and general licenses will authorize provision of such services.

· The policy changes make it easier for Americans to provide business training for private Cuban businesses and small farmers and provide other support for the growth of Cuba’s nascent private sector. Additional options for promoting the growth of entrepreneurship and the private sector in Cuba will be explored.

Facilitating remittances to Cuba by U.S. persons · Remittance levels will be raised from $500 to $2,000 per quarter for general donative remittances to Cuban nationals (except to certain officials of the government or the Communist party); and donative remittances for humanitarian projects, support for the Cuban people, and support for the development of private businesses in Cuba will no longer require a specific license.

· Remittance forwarders will no longer require a specific license.

Authorizing expanded commercial sales/exports from the United States of certain goods and services

· The expansion will seek to empower the nascent Cuban private sector. Items that will be authorized for export include certain building materials for private residential construction, goods for use by private sector Cuban entrepreneurs, and agricultural equipment for small farmers. This change will make it easier for Cuban citizens to have access to certain lower-priced goods to improve their living standards and gain greater economic independence from the state.

Authorizing American citizens to import additional goods from Cuba

· Licensed U.S. travelers to Cuba will be authorized to import $400 worth of goods from Cuba, of which no more than $100 can consist of tobacco products and alcohol combined.

Facilitating authorized transactions between the United States and Cuba

· U.S. institutions will be permitted to open correspondent accounts at Cuban financial institutions to facilitate the processing of authorized transactions.

· The regulatory definition of the statutory term “cash in advance” will be revised to specify that it means “cash before transfer of title”; this will provide more efficient financing of authorized trade with Cuba.

· U.S. credit and debit cards will be permitted for use by travelers to Cuba.

· These measures will improve the speed, efficiency, and oversight of authorized payments between the United States and Cuba.

Initiating new efforts to increase Cubans’ access to communications and their ability to communicate freely

· Cuba has an internet penetration of about five percent—one of the lowest rates in the world. The cost of telecommunications in Cuba is exorbitantly high, while the services offered are extremely limited.

· The commercial export of certain items that will contribute to the ability of the Cuban people to communicate with people in the United States and the rest of the world will be authorized. This will include the commercial sale of certain consumer communications devices, related software, applications, hardware, and services, and items for the establishment and update of communications-related systems.

· Telecommunications providers will be allowed to establish the necessary mechanisms, including infrastructure, in Cuba to provide commercial telecommunications and internet services, which will improve telecommunications between the United States and Cuba.

Updating the application of Cuba sanctions in third countries · U.S.-owned or -controlled entities in third countries will be generally licensed to provide services to, and engage in financial transactions with, Cuban individuals in third countries. In addition, general licenses will unblock the accounts at U.S. banks of Cuban nationals who have relocated outside of Cuba; permit U.S. persons to participate in third-country professional meetings and conferences related to Cuba; and, allow foreign vessels to enter the United States after engaging in certain humanitarian trade with Cuba, among other measures.

Pursuing discussions with the Cuban and Mexican governments to discuss our unresolved maritime boundary in the Gulf of Mexico · Previous agreements between the United States and Cuba delimit the maritime space between the two countries within 200 nautical miles from shore. The United States, Cuba, and Mexico have extended continental shelf in an area within the Gulf of Mexico where the three countries have not yet delimited any boundaries.

· The United States is prepared to invite the governments of Cuba and Mexico to discuss shared maritime boundaries in the Gulf of Mexico.

Initiating a review of Cuba’s designation as a State Sponsor of Terrorism

· The President has instructed the Secretary of State to immediately launch such a review, and provide a report to the President within six months regarding Cuba’s support for international terrorism. Cuba was placed on the list in 1982.

Addressing Cuba’s participation in the 2015 Summit of the Americas in Panama · President Obama will participate in the Summit of the Americas in Panama. Human rights and democracy will be key Summit themes. Cuban civil society must be allowed to participate along with civil society from other countries participating in the Summit, consistent with the region’s commitments under the Inter-American Democratic Charter. The United States welcomes a constructive dialogue among Summit governments on the Summit’s principles.

Unwavering Commitment to Democracy, Human Rights, and Civil Society A critical focus of our increased engagement will include continued strong support by the United States for improved human rights conditions and democratic reforms in Cuba. The promotion of democracy supports universal human rights by empowering civil society and a person’s right to speak freely, peacefully assemble, and associate, and by supporting the ability of people to freely determine their future. Our efforts are aimed at promoting the independence of the Cuban people so they do not need to rely on the Cuban state.

The U.S. Congress funds democracy programming in Cuba to provide humanitarian assistance, promote human rights and fundamental freedoms, and support the free flow of information in places where it is restricted and censored. The Administration will continue to implement U.S. programs aimed at promoting positive change in Cuba, and we will encourage reforms in our high level engagement with Cuban officials.

The United States encourages all nations and organizations engaged in diplomatic dialogue with the Cuban government to take every opportunity both publicly and privately to support increased respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms in Cuba.

Ultimately, it will be the Cuban people who drive economic and political reforms. That is why President Obama took steps to increase the flow of resources and information to ordinary Cuban citizens in 2009, 2011, and today. The Cuban people deserve the support of the United States and of an entire region that has committed to promote and defend democracy through the Inter-American Democratic Charter.

Warcabbit
Apr 26, 2008

Wedge Regret
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/fox-news-editor-on-cuba-obama-in-honey-boo-boo-phase-in-which-he-does-what-he-wants/

quote:

According to Stirewalt, the embargo on Cuba had been maintained because it was “deemed necessary for U.S. credibility.”

“I think part of it is sort of entering this sort of Honey Boo Boo phase of the Obama presidency in which he does what he wants,” he added. “And he’s not going to be constrained by elections, he’s not going to be constrained by voters.”

Lame Duck Obama. Can't get anything done. Heh.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Still higher approval rating that Bush, for fucks sake.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Obama is speaking, can watch live here: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cuba-frees-american-alan-gross-held-five-years-n269926

Bob James
Nov 15, 2005

by Lowtax
Ultra Carp
"Cuba to be 51st state. Gets bigger star than everyone else." B. Hussein Obama

Berk Berkly
Apr 9, 2009

by zen death robot



This man's face was designed by nature to attract as many fists into it as possible.

That and using the phrase "Honey boo boo" unironically.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Obama just announced the guy who Cuba released was instrumental in catching Cuba's spy ring in the US and was the most important asset the US has had in Cuba ever and was pretty firm that was who the 3 Cubans were traded for, not Gross.

Pegged Lamb
Nov 5, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
The tourist boom for them should be huge in the short term

Florida Betty
Sep 24, 2004

Pegged Lamb posted:

The tourist boom for them should be huge in the short term

Is the tourism ban part of the embargo or is that officially off? I'd really like to visit Cuba.

edit: NY Times article says ordinary tourism is still prohibited.

angerbot
Mar 23, 2004

plob
Well this is unexpected, Obama seems pretty confident about in on the TV though.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Florida Betty posted:

Is the tourism ban part of the embargo or is that officially off? I'd really like to visit Cuba.

It's legislation, and can't be repealed without Congress's approval.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Always thought they would end the embargo a day after Fidel dies out of sheer spite.

wheez the roux
Aug 2, 2004
THEY SHOULD'VE GIVEN IT TO LYNCH

Death to the Seahawks. Death to Seahawks posters.
today loving owns. i can't help but think part of this is a cynical ploy to move talk away from the CIA though

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

Bob James posted:

"Cuba to be 51st state. Gets bigger star than everyone else." B. Hussein Obama

Obama announces amnesty for Castro.

Farking Bastage
Sep 22, 2007

Who dey think gonna beat dem Bengos!
Obama's legacy: Cuban marijuana cigars :haw:

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Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


drat, that speech was more than I ever expected from a US President about this.

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