- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — American officials say the U.S. and Cuba will start talks to normalize full diplomatic relations as part of the most significant shift in U.S. policy toward the communist island in decades.
Officials say the U.S. is also looking to open an embassy in Havana in the coming months. The moves are part of an agreement between the U.S. and Cuba that also includes the release of American Alan Gross and three Cubans jailed in Florida for spying.
Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida, said the agreement includes normalizing banking and trade ties with Cuba.
There's also some prisoner who is being released and the release of three Cubans jailed for spying (the US denies these are related and says the swap is those three for an unnamed other person accused of some sort of tie to US intelligence services). There's little news yet, but Rubio being quoted makes it sound like this might be somewhat bipartisan. Nothing I've seen specifically mentions the embargo, but I can't imagine how it could normalize trade ties without ending it.
Obama will be giving a statement at noon about this, presumably there will be a number of leaks between now and then.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:41
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Apr 28, 2024 07:11
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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Looks like I was wrong and Rubio isn't quite down with the agreement:
quote:Some Democratic and Republican lawmakers were sharply critical of the deal. “Let’s be clear, this was not a ‘humanitarian’ act by the Castro regime. It was a swap of convicted spies for an innocent American,” said Senator Robert Menendez, Democrat of New Jersey and the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. “President Obama’s actions have vindicated the brutal behavior of the Cuban government.”
Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, considered a prospect for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination, told The Associated Press: “This is going to do absolutely nothing to further human rights and democracy in Cuba. But it potentially goes a long way in providing the economic lift that the Castro regime needs to become permanent fixtures in Cuba for generations to come.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/18/w...WT.nav=top-news
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Dec 17, 2014 17:01
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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Apparently lifting the embargo requires Congress, so that's iffy at best but the White House will officially support ending it:
quote:
"What we are doing is beginning the normalization of relations of the United States and Cuba," the official said. "President Obama has long believed that engagement is a better tool than isolation and nowhere is that clear than Cuba, where we have seen the failure of a policy of isolation for the last 50 years."
The White House said that Obama would order Secretary of State John Kerry to begin discussions with Cuban officials on re-establishing diplomatic relations and high-level discussions and visits between the countries are expected to follow. The opening of the embassy will happen "as soon as possible," an official said, noting that "the decision has been made" to normalize relations. The main issues to be resolved are logistical, the official said.
Other expected changes include increased travel permission for Americans to visit Cuba, an official review of Cuba's current designation as a state sponsor of terrorism and increased coordination between the United States and Cuba on issues like disaster response and drug trafficking.
As for the Cuban embargo, officials said that the White House supports efforts to end it, but knows congressional approval for lifting it is unlikely in the immediate future.
Well, maybe he would be if it weren't being done by a black Democrat unconstitutional Marxist usurper.
Also he might support it if anyone clued him in he has no hope for the Republican nomination in 2016.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:05
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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Apparently the release included some US "intelligence asset" who had been imprisoned for 20 years but that nobody seems to have any details on. Rubio has also vowed that Congress will not lift the embargo, so look for that to be an issue in 2016.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:15
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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I wonder if he's getting ahead of himself out of his own ambitions. The embargo is broadly unpopular, even among many republicans, and even in a congress that has been incredibly petty and vindictive, scuttling this is going to look and play poorly. I don't doubt there will be those who try, but I get the feeling Rubio isn't speaking for as much of his party as he thinks he is.
That's a good point, I'm not seeing anyone but Rubio running their mouth on the Republican side yet. However given this Congress I wonder if the mere fact that Obama normalized relations will be enough to make it popular enough it survives until at least 2016. No Republicans in Congress are really eager to support anything related to Obama.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:30
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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From the White House:
quote:Fact Sheet: Charting a New Course on Cuba
Today, the United States is taking historic steps to chart a new course in our relations with Cuba and to further engage and empower the Cuban people. We are separated by 90 miles of water, but brought together through the relationships between the two million Cubans and Americans of Cuban descent that live in the United States, and the 11 million Cubans who share similar hopes for a more positive future for Cuba.
It is clear that decades of U.S. isolation of Cuba have failed to accomplish our enduring objective of promoting the emergence of a democratic, prosperous, and stable Cuba. At times, longstanding U.S. policy towards Cuba has isolated the United States from regional and international partners, constrained our ability to influence outcomes throughout the Western Hemisphere, and impaired the use of the full range of tools available to the United States to promote positive change in Cuba. Though this policy has been rooted in the best of intentions, it has had little effect – today, as in 1961, Cuba is governed by the Castros and the Communist party.
We cannot keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. It does not serve America’s interests, or the Cuban people, to try to push Cuba toward collapse. We know from hard-learned experience that it is better to encourage and support reform than to impose policies that will render a country a failed state. With our actions today, we are calling on Cuba to unleash the potential of 11 million Cubans by ending unnecessary restrictions on their political, social, and economic activities. In that spirit, we should not allow U.S. sanctions to add to the burden of Cuban citizens we seek to help.
Today, we are renewing our leadership in the Americas. We are choosing to cut loose the anchor of the past, because it is entirely necessary to reach a better future – for our national interests, for the American people, and for the Cuban people.
Key Components of the Updated Policy Approach:
Since taking office in 2009, President Obama has taken steps aimed at supporting the ability of the Cuban people to gain greater control over their own lives and determine their country’s future. Today, the President announced additional measures to end our outdated approach, and to promote more effectively change in Cuba that is consistent with U.S. support for the Cuban people and in line with U.S. national security interests.
Major elements of the President’s new approach include:
Establishing diplomatic relations with Cuba
The President has instructed the Secretary of State to immediately initiate discussions with Cuba on the re-establishment of diplomatic relations with Cuba, which were severed in January 1961. · In the coming months, we will re-establish an embassy in Havana and carry out high-level exchanges and visits between our two governments as part of the normalization process. As an initial step, the Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs will lead the U.S. Delegation to the next round of U.S.-Cuba Migration Talks in January 2015, in Havana. · U.S. engagement will be critical when appropriate and will include continued strong support for improved human rights conditions and democratic reforms in Cuba and other measures aimed at fostering improved conditions for the Cuban people.
· The United States will work with Cuba on matters of mutual concern and that advance U.S. national interests, such as migration, counternarcotics, environmental protection, and trafficking in persons, among other issues.
Adjusting regulations to more effectively empower the Cuban people
· The changes announced today will soon be implemented via amendments to regulations of the Departments of the Treasury and Commerce. Our new policy changes will further enhance our goal of empowering the Cuban population.
· Our travel and remittance policies are helping Cubans by providing alternative sources of information and opportunities for self-employment and private property ownership, and by strengthening independent civil society.
· These measures will further increase people-to-people contact; further support civil society in Cuba; and further enhance the free flow of information to, from, and among the Cuban people. Persons must comply with all provisions of the revised regulations; violations of the terms and conditions are enforceable under U.S. law.
Facilitating an expansion of travel under general licenses for the 12 existing categories of travel to Cuba authorized by law
· General licenses will be made available for all authorized travelers in the following existing categories: (1) family visits; (2) official business of the U.S. government, foreign governments, and certain intergovernmental organizations; (3) journalistic activity; (4) professional research and professional meetings; (5) educational activities; (6) religious activities; (7) public performances, clinics, workshops, athletic and other competitions, and exhibitions; (8) support for the Cuban people; (9) humanitarian projects; (10) activities of private foundations or research or educational institutes; (11) exportation, importation, or transmission of information or information materials; and (12) certain export transactions that may be considered for authorization under existing regulations and guidelines.
· Travelers in the 12 categories of travel to Cuba authorized by law will be able to make arrangements through any service provider that complies with the U.S. Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) regulations governing travel services to Cuba, and general licenses will authorize provision of such services.
· The policy changes make it easier for Americans to provide business training for private Cuban businesses and small farmers and provide other support for the growth of Cuba’s nascent private sector. Additional options for promoting the growth of entrepreneurship and the private sector in Cuba will be explored.
Facilitating remittances to Cuba by U.S. persons · Remittance levels will be raised from $500 to $2,000 per quarter for general donative remittances to Cuban nationals (except to certain officials of the government or the Communist party); and donative remittances for humanitarian projects, support for the Cuban people, and support for the development of private businesses in Cuba will no longer require a specific license.
· Remittance forwarders will no longer require a specific license.
Authorizing expanded commercial sales/exports from the United States of certain goods and services
· The expansion will seek to empower the nascent Cuban private sector. Items that will be authorized for export include certain building materials for private residential construction, goods for use by private sector Cuban entrepreneurs, and agricultural equipment for small farmers. This change will make it easier for Cuban citizens to have access to certain lower-priced goods to improve their living standards and gain greater economic independence from the state.
Authorizing American citizens to import additional goods from Cuba
· Licensed U.S. travelers to Cuba will be authorized to import $400 worth of goods from Cuba, of which no more than $100 can consist of tobacco products and alcohol combined.
Facilitating authorized transactions between the United States and Cuba
· U.S. institutions will be permitted to open correspondent accounts at Cuban financial institutions to facilitate the processing of authorized transactions.
· The regulatory definition of the statutory term “cash in advance” will be revised to specify that it means “cash before transfer of title”; this will provide more efficient financing of authorized trade with Cuba.
· U.S. credit and debit cards will be permitted for use by travelers to Cuba.
· These measures will improve the speed, efficiency, and oversight of authorized payments between the United States and Cuba.
Initiating new efforts to increase Cubans’ access to communications and their ability to communicate freely
· Cuba has an internet penetration of about five percent—one of the lowest rates in the world. The cost of telecommunications in Cuba is exorbitantly high, while the services offered are extremely limited.
· The commercial export of certain items that will contribute to the ability of the Cuban people to communicate with people in the United States and the rest of the world will be authorized. This will include the commercial sale of certain consumer communications devices, related software, applications, hardware, and services, and items for the establishment and update of communications-related systems.
· Telecommunications providers will be allowed to establish the necessary mechanisms, including infrastructure, in Cuba to provide commercial telecommunications and internet services, which will improve telecommunications between the United States and Cuba.
Updating the application of Cuba sanctions in third countries · U.S.-owned or -controlled entities in third countries will be generally licensed to provide services to, and engage in financial transactions with, Cuban individuals in third countries. In addition, general licenses will unblock the accounts at U.S. banks of Cuban nationals who have relocated outside of Cuba; permit U.S. persons to participate in third-country professional meetings and conferences related to Cuba; and, allow foreign vessels to enter the United States after engaging in certain humanitarian trade with Cuba, among other measures.
Pursuing discussions with the Cuban and Mexican governments to discuss our unresolved maritime boundary in the Gulf of Mexico · Previous agreements between the United States and Cuba delimit the maritime space between the two countries within 200 nautical miles from shore. The United States, Cuba, and Mexico have extended continental shelf in an area within the Gulf of Mexico where the three countries have not yet delimited any boundaries.
· The United States is prepared to invite the governments of Cuba and Mexico to discuss shared maritime boundaries in the Gulf of Mexico.
Initiating a review of Cuba’s designation as a State Sponsor of Terrorism
· The President has instructed the Secretary of State to immediately launch such a review, and provide a report to the President within six months regarding Cuba’s support for international terrorism. Cuba was placed on the list in 1982.
Addressing Cuba’s participation in the 2015 Summit of the Americas in Panama · President Obama will participate in the Summit of the Americas in Panama. Human rights and democracy will be key Summit themes. Cuban civil society must be allowed to participate along with civil society from other countries participating in the Summit, consistent with the region’s commitments under the Inter-American Democratic Charter. The United States welcomes a constructive dialogue among Summit governments on the Summit’s principles.
Unwavering Commitment to Democracy, Human Rights, and Civil Society A critical focus of our increased engagement will include continued strong support by the United States for improved human rights conditions and democratic reforms in Cuba. The promotion of democracy supports universal human rights by empowering civil society and a person’s right to speak freely, peacefully assemble, and associate, and by supporting the ability of people to freely determine their future. Our efforts are aimed at promoting the independence of the Cuban people so they do not need to rely on the Cuban state.
The U.S. Congress funds democracy programming in Cuba to provide humanitarian assistance, promote human rights and fundamental freedoms, and support the free flow of information in places where it is restricted and censored. The Administration will continue to implement U.S. programs aimed at promoting positive change in Cuba, and we will encourage reforms in our high level engagement with Cuban officials.
The United States encourages all nations and organizations engaged in diplomatic dialogue with the Cuban government to take every opportunity both publicly and privately to support increased respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms in Cuba.
Ultimately, it will be the Cuban people who drive economic and political reforms. That is why President Obama took steps to increase the flow of resources and information to ordinary Cuban citizens in 2009, 2011, and today. The Cuban people deserve the support of the United States and of an entire region that has committed to promote and defend democracy through the Inter-American Democratic Charter.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:48
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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Obama just announced the guy who Cuba released was instrumental in catching Cuba's spy ring in the US and was the most important asset the US has had in Cuba ever and was pretty firm that was who the 3 Cubans were traded for, not Gross.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:07
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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Is the tourism ban part of the embargo or is that officially off? I'd really like to visit Cuba.
It's legislation, and can't be repealed without Congress's approval.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:11
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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quote:Speaker John A. Boehner on Wednesday called President Obama’s new policy on Cuba the latest in “a long line of mindless concessions to a dictatorship that brutalizes its people and schemed with our enemies.”
“If anything, this emboldens all state sponsors of terrorism, as they now have an even better idea of what the president meant when he told Russian leaders he would have ‘more flexiblity” after his re-election,” Mr. Boehner said in a statement. “We have seen this before, and I fear we will see it again.”
Senator Mitch McConnell, the incoming majority leader, said that he was informed of the impending policy change and release of prisoner Alan Gross on Tuesday evening in a phone call with Mr. Obama. He said he intended to defer on the issue to Senator Marco Rubio, the Florida Republican and son of Cuban immigrants who was very critical of the president’s decision.
“We have a Cuban-American expert, Marco Rubio, whose parents were fortunate enough to get out,” Mr. McConnell said. “I am very likely to be following his lead. I think it will be very controversial with the Cuban-American community, much of which lives in Florida.”
I think it's safe to say the embargo is staying, for now.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:30
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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Also, how would the US hope to introduce reforms to Cuba under a government where their leader is president for life?
He's quite old, for life isn't that long at this point.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:31
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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We'll see, I think its just talk and it'll go through anyways.
Rubio is saying they're going to petulantly refuse to confirm an ambassador or approve funds for an embassy:
quote:“You’re going to have a very interesting couple of years figuring out how you’re going to get an ambassador nominated and how you’re going to get an embassy funded,” Mr. Rubio said.
Mr. Rubio went on to say that it is the role of Congress to provide oversight on such issues and that Republicans would use all of the tools at their disposal to block Mr. Obama’s policy.
“I am committed to doing everything I can to unraveling as many of these change as possible,” Mr. Rubio said. “This Congress is not going to lift the embargo.”
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Dec 17, 2014 19:37
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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They said that about his nominee for Surgeon General, and while maybe Ebola pushed it through, I doubt they really would've given in unless it was just a show for constituents.
The Surgeon General got though because Reid abolished the filibuster for nominations, the Republicans didn't give in. However now that the Republicans control the Senate, nominees won't even get a vote.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:48
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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It seems a little...ridiculous to criticize the Castro regime over its treatment of homosexuals in the 1970s and 1980s considering the generally poor state of LGBT rights worldwide at that time.
I read that as less that Cuba is so bad and more as putting their legalization of gays in perspective.
So it's kinda like the US army former "don't ask, don't tell"? You can be gay, but you can not express it in an organized or political manner?
It's more that because it's an authoritarian government, you can't do anything in an organized or political manner that's not white-listed by the government. You can be gay all you want, you just can't be part of an unsanctioned political organization even if it's about gay rights.
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Dec 18, 2014 13:58
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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quote:American intelligence officials have said little about the Cuban agent, except that he was instrumental in exposing and disrupting a ring of Cuban operatives in the United States that included members of the Cuban Five. A senior American official identified him as Rolando Sarraf Trujillo. Multiple news accounts in recent years have identified Mr. Trujillo as a former Cuban intelligence officer who has been in prison in Cuba since 1995.
This appears to have been the 'intelligence asset' - anyone know anything about him?
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Dec 18, 2014 16:26
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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I knew the anti-Castro exiles in Miami were a bunch of shrill idiots, but I honestly didn't realize the mainstream media in the US were so willing to go along with their nonsense, because I don't see any motivation for them to do so. Did they act like this during the Cold War, like every time some rear end in a top hat Yankee spy got nabbed in the USSR he was just an innocent little flower being crushed by the mean commies (meanwhile, enemy spies in the US are literally agents of satan, of course!)?
He was accused of being a spy, but the evidence for that is sort of thin and he wasn't even formally accused or convicted of that in Cuba. What is clear though is that he was willfully violating their laws about importing things that connect to the outside world. And yes, he was aware of the risks he was taking.
That said, I think it's clear that's an unjustifiable law and he's essentially being prosecuted for political crimes, not intelligence operations. He is not some innocent person completely randomly imprisoned, but he is being imprisoned as part of the Cuban government's attempt to block access to the outside world. It's reasonable to consider himself a political prisoner of sorts - he might have known the risks he was taking, but those shouldn't be risks and the Cuban government deserves condemnation for those being risks.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:34
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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If Mr. Gross's actions, and the desires of his backers, had anything to do with increasing connectivity to the outside world in Cuba, they would be focused on ending the bullshit embargo instead of smuggling expensive sat-phones to a very specific group with political aims at odds with the government of Cuba.
The bolded part is the problem with your argument. I agree his actions weren't particularly useful. But the "political aims at odds with the government" is "democracy", and we readily recognize that while promoting democracy may be against the law in various countries, those laws are illegitimate and we should oppose people getting punished for it. There's little to no evidence he was engaged in any sort of espionage or anything else that we would generally recognize as a legitimate crime.
It's not particularly different from the Cuban claim the the Cuban Five were merely gathering intelligence on US-supported anti-Castro terrorist groups to prevent further terrorism against Cuban targets. It's a grey area, but it's still pretty clear you'll get banged up if/when you get caught. And if the Cuban government ought to be ashamed of its position on sat-phones, then the US government should sure as poo poo be ashamed of the way it has protected terrorists and terrorist organizations that have attacked Cuban and foreign targets in Cuba.
I'm not defending the US embargo. You, however, are actively supporting and justifying Cuba's repressive policies. I don't need to go "sure, the US shouldn't do that either" because you're coming out and arguing that this was entirely legitimate. No amount of "but the US..." is relevant here.
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Dec 18, 2014 20:18
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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How much lawbreaking is justifiable in the name of "my moral worldview considers those laws illegitimate so I'm not going to follow them", and why shouldn't people be punished for breaking the law just because they did so out of principle rather than stubbornness? Most intentional lawbreaking movements and activities I can think of, such as civil disobedience or conscientious objection, know and accept the risk that they may be arrested for breaking the laws they feel are illegitimate, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to for a government to arrest people for knowingly and intentionally breaking those laws.
That also leads to three related queations, of course: "how do countries fairly decide which ideologies are sufficiently legitimate to give their adherents a free pass on lawbreaking activities", "how much lawbreaking is justifiable in the name of defying illegitimate laws", and "do the answers of any of these questions change if, instead of acting in a private capqcit for their own beliefs, the person is secretly acting as a paid agent of a foreign government, including lying about his affiliations and carrying espionage equipment provided by an intelligence agency?"
It entirely depends on the law. And because you know and accept a risk doesn't make the risk legitimate.
As to your second question, we determine which activities are generally considered acceptable for a government to make illegal and which are not. This isn't a case where people should have "a free pass on lawbreaking activities" this is a case where the activities should not be lawbreaking.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:18
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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Let me introduce you to this little-known place called Guantanamo Bay.
We control Guantanamo. We have no claims on anything we don't control.
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Dec 19, 2014 04:13
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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I think he meant to say that the current Cuban regime has never agreed that the US has legitimate claims on Guantanamo Bay.
Yeah, but that's a lot different than the China situation where China claims things that other nations currently have - there's no real risk of the Guantanamo situation coming to blows. Frankly once relations thaw enough I expect we'd hand it back, we don't really need coaling stations anymore.
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Dec 19, 2014 04:21
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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McMurdo Sound might work. I think Gitmo was mostly useful since it was reasonably close to the US, so that lawyers, interrogators, waterboarding technicians and the like could shuttle back and forth more easily. Once we've admitted that there's no point to holding them any more, we can stick them somewhere far away and remote and not have to worry about it. Best of all, there's, like, no laws in Antarctica.
Guantanamo was actually used because it's Cuban territory. The government wanted to argue that because it was in Cuban territory, US law did not apply. Of course since Cuba has no effective control over the territory Cuban law doesn't apply either, and you've got a black hole. Fortunately the Supreme Court ruled that was bullshit. Following that ruling yes, there's no reason to have them in Gitmo and you might as well have them in the US.
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Dec 19, 2014 16:09
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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quote:Hey @marcorubio if the embargo doesn't hurt Cuba, why do you want to keep it? quote:Senator @marcorubio is acting like an isolationist who wants to retreat to our borders and perhaps build a moat. I reject this isolationism. quote:The United States trades and engages with other communist nations, such as China and Vietnam. So @marcorubio why not Cuba? quote:.@marcorubio what about the majority of Cuban-Americans who now support normalizing relations between our countries? http://n.pr/1z3MARX quote:Senator Marco Rubio believes the embargo against Cuba has been ineffective, yet he wants to continue perpetuating failed policies. After 50 years of conflict, why not try a new approach? The United States trades and engages with other communist nations, such as China and Vietnam. Why not Cuba? I am a proponent of peace through commerce, and I believe engaging Cuba can lead to positive change.
Seems to me, Senator Rubio is acting like an isolationist who wants to retreat to our borders and perhaps build a moat. I reject this isolationism. Finally, let's be clear that Senator Rubio does not speak for the majority of Cuban-Americans. A recent poll demonstrates that a large majority of Cuban-Americans actually support normalizing relations between our countries.
These are all from Rand Paul, I guess there really is going to be some inter-Republican heat over this.
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Dec 19, 2014 19:08
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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Rand Paul kicking Rubio in the balls over this is hilarious. Between this and his failed immigration policy, Rubio can't still be thinking of running for President, can he? The minute McConnell said he was deferring to Rubio on the issue you knew the fix was in and he was being set up for a huge fall.
Rubio thinks he can win, but nobody else does after the immigration debacle.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:54
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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Interesting that you are actually starting to see distinct positions staked out by Rand Paul and Rubio. But has Hillary managed to duck taking a stand on this yet, and if so, how?
Hillary has opposed the embargo for a while and was quick to praise Obama's actions.
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Dec 20, 2014 23:33
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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So like this should have happened a lot sooner.
It probably would have if Gross hadn't gotten arrested.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:52
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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So close...
I haven't actually been following since December but I'm assuming this sinks it?
I think what they mean by "normal" is "hey we're all buddies here, want to go to the baseball game" instead of "we've stopped loving with each other as much as humanly possible". Cuba hasn't given up its demands for Guantanamo, the ending of the embargo (which Obama is cool with but Congress is not), and compensation for the embargo (not happening). The United States hasn't given up its demands that Cuba become an actual democracy. It's just that what each side is willing to do in pursuit of those aims has changed.
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Jan 29, 2015 16:46
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Apr 28, 2024 07:11
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- evilweasel
- Aug 24, 2002
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It's literally illegal under US law to spend a single dollar bringing a guantanamo detainee back to the United States (passed by Congress to prevent Obama from closing it) so we can't give it back until that's repealed or we manage to get every remaining prisoner taken by someone else.
It has been a long time since anyone needed the base and we mostly just kept it because "why the hell would we give a military base to some communists?"
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Jan 30, 2015 00:41
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Dec 17, 2014 16:41
