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MajorB posted:Brad Bird got sidetracked by 1906 (which never got made) and then kickstarted his live action career with Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol. He's also currently doing Tomorrowland.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:24
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I sort of get the feeling that they retconned the death of the mother because they couldn't come up with anything else interesting to do with the other characters. They also killed off Hiccup's dad because they didn't know what else to do with him. Dean Debois has confirmed online and also hints in the (very beautiful) Nico Marlet HTTYD2 artbook that Valka was originally meant to be the antagonist of the movie. That she meets Hiccup and tries to turn him to her cause as she does in the movie. She flips the gently caress out when she sees the other teenagers atop dragons alongside the trapper bloke, tells him she's going to drive all Vikings from the area and raises her own Alpha against her son and husband to take their dragons from them. The only hint of it that's left is in the scene where she's questioning how Toothless lost his tail fin and Hiccup admits it was him, there's a sort of feeling in that scene she could go either way on liking or hating her kid. Which would lead to some seriously dark speculation about if Stoick would have met his end in the same way in that storyline, and is probably why they didn't end up going that way. A wife using her sons' beloved best friend to kill her husband is the stuff of Greek tragedy, not charming little films about comedy Vikings and their adorable kitty-dragons
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Jan 3, 2015 12:46
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Neeksy posted:Plus there's the apparent horrible glass ceiling problem, and that wage-fixing cartel thing. Pixar has some issues going on. The entire reason we didn't get a Pixar movie last year is because guy who created and directed The Good Dinosaur was "removed" from the movie and then they pushed it back a year and a half. It's kind of impressive how quickly they went from the mecca of western animation to a place having such big, public issues.
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Jan 3, 2015 13:54
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My favorite thing about How To Train Your Dragon 2 is that they spend a lot of the first part of the movie talking about how human the dragons are, and intelligent, and how they're not just simple animals. Then the thing with the alpha happens and we found out that uh... actually, they really are just mindless animals that will follow the strongest thing they see. Literally everything Hiccup says in that movie turns out to be wrong. He's wrong about dragons being intelligent, he's wrong about being able to talk to the villain, and when the villain starts going "It's just about the strongest will, not about 'friendship,'" turns out the villain is right and Hiccup is, once again, completely loving wrong. Also it bothers me that nobody mentions the giant dragon queen from HTTYD, which seems like it should be a bigger deal considering how important giant dragons are in the second one.
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Jan 3, 2015 15:42
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Well, humans are also presumably intelligent, and they allow themselves to be impressed or cowed by powerful people. These things aren't mutually exclusive. The alphas would also appear to have powerful psionic powers which are hard for dragons to resist or override. What I took away from the film is that dragons are highly empathic beings who are influenced by others' emotions, which may be partly why trainers and their dragons seem so much alike.
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Jan 3, 2015 17:23
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Tartarus Sauce posted:What I took away from the film is that dragons are highly empathic beings who are influenced by others' emotions, which may be partly why trainers and their dragons seem so much alike. Doesn't really mesh with the obvious fear that the dragons felt toward the alpha in HTTYD though.
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Jan 3, 2015 18:05
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Tartarus Sauce posted:Well, humans are also presumably intelligent, and they allow themselves to be impressed or cowed by powerful people. These things aren't mutually exclusive. Yeah, it's pretty clearly implied that the characters and their dragons have an empathic connection of some sort- they even flat out state "His soul reflects my own" in reference to a dragon in the second movie. What I took from both movies is that the dragons are naturally peaceable creatures, but are horribly easy to control and bully- hence their rather pitiful state of slavery to the Queen of the first movie, where they're forced to raid villages and bring the food back to her. They were frightened of her, but not one of them seemed to be able to rebel except Toothless, and you see the same pattern repeating with the villain of the second movie, where he was able to terrify the dragons into submission even without the aid of his Alpha. And I think it would be wrong to call Toothless in particular a mindless beast, he's pretty clearly able to reason, plan and understand speech to some degree, plus break himself free of the Alphas' control when he's got Hiccup in front of him. I'm interested to see where the third movie will take this, there's pretty clearly something a bit odd about the Night Furies. (Also, I'm reading the books with my small nephew, and it's flipping hilarious how different the two are. Toothless is a horrid little poo poo in the books, a dragon the size of a housecat who's incredibly selfish, disloyal and sarcastic)
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Jan 3, 2015 18:38
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In addition to being a great film, Song of the Sea features one of the best scores in an animated film I've heard since Joe Hisaishi's for Spirited Away. It's, like, unnervingly good. EDIT: Seriously, listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF0NqBlGBKU K. Waste fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 23:01
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No one does pushups like Gaston! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3bp59Eci_0
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Jan 4, 2015 04:12
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Blood Nightmaster posted:All I've had a chance to see was the dub, and having no other context I would say it was about as breathtaking as it was heartbreaking. Lots of celebrities in there I couldn't even place til after the movie was over, too, which is always a nice bonus. The only thing that felt a bit awkward was maybe the choice of translation for Kaguya's initial name--not sure what it was in Japanese (wikipedia says 'Takenoko') but for the dub they call her 'Lil' Bamboo', which while literally correct sounds silly in some of the more dramatic scenes. That's a small gripe though because how else could they have localized that, really Those scenes still carry dramatic weight, though! Lil Bamboo is her name to her childhood friends, her identity to them, and the adherence to that name despite its immaturity is touching in its own way. Kaguya meanwhile is a crazy grandiose name to the point where we get a scene specifically describing its meaning. They could have left Takenoko untranslated but then we wouldn't get the plainness and the sillyness and the contrast would be lost on us. K. Waste posted:Song of the Sea is so good. Go see it! It's got a whole Miyazaki vibe and manages to not only out-do The Secret of Kells, but stand out as one of the best movies of 2014. Also this makes me so happy except I don't think it's playing near me 
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Jan 5, 2015 04:46
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Irisi posted:Dean Debois has confirmed online and also hints in the (very beautiful) Nico Marlet HTTYD2 artbook that Valka was originally meant to be the antagonist of the movie. That she meets Hiccup and tries to turn him to her cause as she does in the movie. She flips the gently caress out when she sees the other teenagers atop dragons alongside the trapper bloke, tells him she's going to drive all Vikings from the area and raises her own Alpha against her son and husband to take their dragons from them. The only hint of it that's left is in the scene where she's questioning how Toothless lost his tail fin and Hiccup admits it was him, there's a sort of feeling in that scene she could go either way on liking or hating her kid. That would've been a hell of a movie. I wish they'd tried it.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:15
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effectual posted:That would've been a hell of a movie. I wish they'd tried it. It sounds like Iron Man 2 where they changed the plot midway through and you can still see the better idea shining through.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:22
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I don't think that original plot sounded any good. In fact, that sounds pretty cliche even for a sequel.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:38
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Pick posted:I don't think that original plot sounded any good. In fact, that sounds pretty cliche even for a sequel. Yeah, but it woulda been better than what we got, which was disjointed and shallow in the name of being more "Kid Friendly". (just ignore the scene where the adorable dragon-kitty horribly murders a man against it's own will, because now they have dragon-sheep-basketball!)
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Jan 5, 2015 05:52
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Pick posted:I don't think that original plot sounded any good. In fact, that sounds pretty cliche even for a sequel. A "kid" movie where the mother and father are de-facto divorced and fight to the death? That doesn't sound cliche to me. Maybe some Shakespeare and stuff like Godfather 2 had divorced parents fighting, but they're not aimed at kids.
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Jan 5, 2015 07:39
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Just watched the House of Magic with the fiancé on Netflix. The animation was well done and the colors were really nice, if the story was a bit flat. If you are looking for a cute movie for a nice night in or something to entertain the kids I would really recommend it.
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Jan 5, 2015 07:52
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Pick posted:I don't think that original plot sounded any good. In fact, that sounds pretty cliche even for a sequel. Would've taken it over the mess we got, with the mother, trapper and villain all being half-characters with no weight to them whatsoever.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:53
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effectual posted:A "kid" movie where the mother and father are de-facto divorced and fight to the death? That doesn't sound cliche to me. Maybe some Shakespeare and stuff like Godfather 2 had divorced parents fighting, but they're not aimed at kids. The "bad version of good guy"/role reversal is like the bog standard. I'm not saying HTTYD2 was particularly good but it sounds like they wasted a lot of time on a bad premise to begin with. It feels often the first issue/film/etc of a media product has a theme, and then the second one essentially says "but don't take it too far!!" Like they think we're all idiots and if the message is "make friends!" the second volume has to be "but not with Hitler!!"
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Jan 5, 2015 18:03
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Kojiro posted:Would've taken it over the mess we got, with the mother, trapper and villain all being half-characters with no weight to them whatsoever. Honestly, I think no character in HTTYD2 has weight. Astrid was especially disappointing.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:21
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computer parts posted:It sounds like Iron Man 2 where they changed the plot midway through and you can still see the better idea shining through. Now I'm curious about that.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:26
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Pick posted:The "bad version of good guy"/role reversal is like the bog standard. I'm not saying HTTYD2 was particularly good but it sounds like they wasted a lot of time on a bad premise to begin with. "Don't make friends with abusive people" sounds like a pretty important bit of nuance to add to "make friends".
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Jan 5, 2015 18:27
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MonsieurChoc posted:Now I'm curious about that. I think this is the article, very interesting.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:29
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computer parts posted:I think this is the article, very interesting. Holy poo poo.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:40
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gmq posted:Honestly, I think no character in HTTYD2 has weight. Astrid was especially disappointing. Yeah, when Hiccup was saying he didn't want to be chief and Astrid said it'd be exciting, I was hoping it would end out with her as chief instead. But no, instead Hiccup gets all of the everything. He didn't even go through an arc which changed his mind, it was just "Welp, Dad died, guess I'm chief now." Astrid mostly just played sheep hockey and that was about it. Kojiro fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 19:12
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LaughMyselfTo posted:"Don't make friends with abusive people" sounds like a pretty important bit of nuance to add to "make friends". No theme should be subjected to the absolute limits of its application. Kojiro posted:Yeah, when Hiccup was saying he didn't want to be chief and Astrid said it'd be exciting, I was hoping it would end out with her as chief instead. But no, instead Hiccup gets all of the everything. He didn't even go through an arc which changed his mind, it was just "Welp, Dad died, guess I'm chief now." Astrid mostly just played sheep hockey and that was about it. Yeah, this was foreshadowed very strongly and went nowhere, which is absurd because by all accounts Astrid would be a fantastic chieftan and seems to want it far more.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:36
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Pick posted:No theme should be subjected to the absolute limits of its application. But she's a g-g-girl 
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Jan 5, 2015 19:39
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axleblaze posted:But she's a g-g-girl What's funny is "women managing things while the man is away exploring/pillaging" would be pretty loving Norse.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:56
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Pick posted:Yeah, this was foreshadowed very strongly and went nowhere, which is absurd because by all accounts Astrid would be a fantastic chieftan and seems to want it far more.
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Jan 5, 2015 20:03
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Well, hopefully the second one really is mostly hooks for... some kind of overarching theme in the third. Admittedly, we were pretty spoiled by Kung Fu Panda 2, which is an excellent film in its own right and an example for sequels (unnecessary last-minute hook notwithstanding).
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Jan 5, 2015 20:07
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Re: who should be chief, there are positive and negative potential messages you could convey either way. In a positive sense, Hiccup becoming chief sends the message that we have the ability to grow into roles were originally thought we were too small or powerless to truly deserve. True adulthood is about taking on responsibilities that you originally thought would be too boring, too big, or too impossible to manage. Astrid becoming chief could convey the positive message that some people are more cut out for certain jobs or roles than others, or it could end up conveying the negative message that if you think you can't do something, you're probably right. You could also argue that HTTYD is also largely about the New Generation vs. The Old Generation, and how young people end up transforming or confronting the world in ways that often shock, confuse, or terrify their elders. In many ways, if Astrid were to become chief, she'd represent "the old guard," because like the other Vikings, she's basically down with shooting things in the face and asking questions later. That she is less that way than she used to be is largely thanks to Hiccup. But, maybe in order to survive the coming storms, the Vikings need a new type of chief with a different perspective and totally different skill set.
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Jan 5, 2015 20:23
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Tartarus Sauce posted:In many ways, if Astrid were to become chief, she'd represent "the old guard," because like the other Vikings, she's basically down with shooting things in the face and asking questions later. That she is less that way than she used to be is largely thanks to Hiccup. I thought the scene on board the bad guys ship was rather subtly meant to show Astrid was not a good idea for Chief in this new world of diplomacy, dragons and unknown, unpredictable enemies. She basically dooms Stoick and her whole clan by flat out telling the villain everything about their tame dragons, the village and its' leaders in a highly unwise attempt to intimidate and overmaster him in the "old guard" style, despite the fact she's been warned twice not to. It's only at that point the baddie flips his poo poo and decides to take out both Valka and Berk immediately. And despite it's muddled plot and flat villain, the movie as a whole still earns a pass from me for it's flying scenes and that score. John Powell really knocked it out the park for both movies; they're just impossibly gorgeous.
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Jan 5, 2015 21:14
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Well, Hiccup's approach didn't work super rad either  .I think it actually would have been okay to have a sequel that went more casual instead of trying to ramp up the action. Considering what people like and remember about the first film, it would have lent itself surprisingly well to setpieces. When I hear people talk about their enjoyment of HTTYD, it's normally things like Hiccup and Toothless becoming friends and the flying sequences, not killing the first Alpha. Pick fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 21:19
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Pick posted:When I hear people talk about their enjoyment of HTTYD, it's normally things like Hiccup and Toothless becoming friends and the flying sequences, not killing the first Alpha. Sorry, it's me. They killed that alpha in a clever way. But the second movie they just had Toothless take potshots at it over and over, sitting still, until it gave up. The first one was at least clever, especially when they made a big deal about making each species unique, finding weaknesses, and exploiting them like a DnD game.
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Jan 5, 2015 21:58
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Irisi posted:John Powell really knocked it out the park for both movies; they're just impossibly gorgeous. John Powell knocks it out of the park practically every time. That dude does loving awesome stuff, and gets overlooked SO much. Like even with Horton, even if you didn't like it, you have to admit the music in it is awesome, especially the entire climax and the part where Horton chases Vlad when he steals the flower. And he was loving robbed the single time he was nominated for an academy award.
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Jan 6, 2015 00:22
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Pick posted:I think it actually would have been okay to have a sequel that went more casual instead of trying to ramp up the action. Considering what people like and remember about the first film, it would have lent itself surprisingly well to setpieces. When I hear people talk about their enjoyment of HTTYD, it's normally things like Hiccup and Toothless becoming friends and the flying sequences, not killing the first Alpha. Not surprisingly, the best parts of HTTYD2 are Stoick and Valka coming together again and the flying sequences
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Jan 6, 2015 00:28
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Oh, and on a totally different note, The Gruffalo's Child recently appeared on Netflix (at least for me), and it's abso-bloody-lutely delightful. The hit the tone and style of the book right on.
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Jan 6, 2015 00:44
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Looper posted:Not surprisingly, the best parts of HTTYD2 are Stoick and Valka coming together again and the flying sequences The reconciliation scene suddenly caused me to have a severe allergic reaction in my eyes.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:24
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Is that the scene where he sings awfully for just a little too long? Cause my ears had the same reaction.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:43
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Invalid Validation posted:Is that the scene where he sings awfully for just a little too long? Cause my ears had the same reaction. Yep. Also the scene where everyone forgave her on the spot for abandoning her family because dragons are nice.
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Jan 6, 2015 10:45
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Kojiro posted:Yep. Also the scene where everyone forgave her on the spot for abandoning her family because dragons are nice. Good god, they wasted pretty much every opportunity for conflict between anyone who wasn't the main villain, didn't they?
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Jan 6, 2015 20:31
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