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I see a problem in a lot of films that run into thematic issues when they have just one prominent female character. Whether the creator intends the work to be or not, any creative work will be viewed as a reflection of "real life." Once you accept the initial setting, like "in this universe people are vikings and ride dragons," or "in this universe people are in a peaceful space navy seeking out new life and new civilizations" you internalize that the main character and the people in his home setting are like you and the people in your home setting, even if the setting is somewhere we would consider exotic, as in the premise "sapient animals inhabit medieval china and practice kung fu." If you follow the Lajos Egri school of storywriting, every story has a "premise" that is proved by the events of the story, one that is applicable to the life of the audience. (This is why the once-popular plot "killing a kinsman by mistake" has fallen out of style - it is no longer very compelling.) A premise is like a scientific thesis. Some examples include "Poverty leads to crime," "Out of weakness can come strength," or "misplaced trust leads to ruin." Even if the storyteller does not intend to communicate a premise, the audience will perceive one (whether they realize it or not.) When I watch a movie, I accept that the people in this setting are "normal" and that the ways that they differ are the ways in which people around me are different from each other. Let's look at the LOTR books and films. While nobody I know is an iron age warrior-aristocrat, I accept that iron age warrior-aristocrats are fairly normal for this setting and could be a lot like me and the people I know. In the Fellowship of the Ring, we meet Boromir, the first son of the Steward of Gondor. The Steward of Gondor is basically King in all but name, and Boromir is heir to this role. We also meet Aragorn, heir to the title of King of Gondor. Because they are essentially dueling pretenders to the throne, the audience is asked to compare them. Boromir's arrogance and desire for the ring make him distinct from Aragorn, who is humble and has little interest in the ring. Over the course of the story we conclude that, based on Aragorn's qualities vs. Boromir's qualities, Aragorn is more fit to rule. While Boromir would stand out if he was hanging out in a Starbucks today, what makes him stand out in his home setting is his arrogance and desire to use the ring (for good, but still). There's pretty much nothing else that's distinct about him. But what if he was a cyborg or something? That would add an extra dimension to the conflict. The implicit message would be that it's in part because Boromir is a cyborg that he is not as fit to rule as Aragorn even if his cyborginess have nothing to do with his actual flaws just because it stands in contrast with Aragorn's un-cyber-augmented nature. So when you have a story where there is just one prominent female character, if the narrative puts her in contrast with someone else, the fact that she's female will create subtext whether that subtext is desired or not. The best way to avoid unintended unfortunate subtext, of course, is to have more than one prominent female character. Or Robot.
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Jan 6, 2015 21:48
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Kojiro posted:Yep. Also the scene where everyone forgave her on the spot for abandoning her family because dragons are nice. Honestly, I can buy this just because of how it fit with Hiccup's arc. It seemed like a mirror to him running away from the chief role, which the movie portrayed as also an okay thing to do.
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Jan 6, 2015 22:04
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Honestly, I can buy this just because of how it fit with Hiccup's arc. It seemed like a mirror to him running away from the chief role, which the movie portrayed as also an okay thing to do. I don't agree that the movie portrayed "running away" as an acceptable option -- that conflict was resolved by Stoick's death. The closest Hiccup came to making this choice on his own was when Valka offered to let him stay with her and her dragons, and Hiccup seemed to realize that this wasn't the perfect option, either, with outside threats looming on the horizon. With Stoick's death, the Chieftain role was more or less thrust on Hiccup.
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Jan 7, 2015 01:18
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Did someone already post on how goon-favorite The Road to El Dorado is streaming on Netflix? Because goon-favorite The Road to El Dorado is streaming on Netflix.
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Jan 7, 2015 17:21
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When I lived in Spain I saw it dubbed in Castillian. It was awesome. I'd like to get it on DVD but it seems here it's all the latinoamericano dub. Someone should splice the dubs so that Miguel has a Castillian accent and Tulio has a Mexican accent.
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Jan 7, 2015 17:30
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my cat is norris posted:I don't agree that the movie portrayed "running away" as an acceptable option -- that conflict was resolved by Stoick's death. The closest Hiccup came to making this choice on his own was when Valka offered to let him stay with her and her dragons, and Hiccup seemed to realize that this wasn't the perfect option, either, with outside threats looming on the horizon. With Stoick's death, the Chieftain role was more or less thrust on Hiccup. Regardless, though, you're not supposed to dislike Hiccup for not wanting to be chieftain and running away from it. It's treated as a perfectly reasonable response to the burden, even if ultimately the incorrect one.
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Jan 8, 2015 03:15
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Just saw a commercial for Strange Magic... Announcer: ".... Tasteful nudes...." Me: "What the...." If this doesn't bomb, then EVERYTHING will be successful.
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Jan 9, 2015 06:26
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I notice the trailer didn't show the Sugar Pie, Honey Bun bit. Guess they realized that was really stupid.
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Jan 9, 2015 06:38
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Robindaybird posted:I notice the trailer didn't show the Sugar Pie, Honey Bun bit. Guess they realized that the film was really stupid.
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Jan 9, 2015 06:40
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When I went to see The Hobbit, I was praying that they wouldn't show the trailer for Strange Magic. Really looking forward to reading all the reviews when it comes out. I'd also like to take this opportunity to say that Tokyo Godfathers is an awesome movie and you should totally see it if you haven't already. Celery Face fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 09:20
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Someone please lend me a lot of money so I can win one of these
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Jan 9, 2015 16:14
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Speaking of Laika, you people weren't kidding about Boxtrolls being a let down. It was still really beautiful and the cast was great but the plot basically ran on forced premises and characters just being dumb. It was just really hard to get invested in any part of it because every part of it felt really forced.
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Jan 13, 2015 15:30
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Dreamworks is making a Puss in Boots series for Netflix, further proving that they just can't stop squeezing that green stone for blood.
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Jan 13, 2015 16:54
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axleblaze posted:Speaking of Laika, you people weren't kidding about Boxtrolls being a let down. It was still really beautiful and the cast was great but the plot basically ran on forced premises and characters just being dumb. It was just really hard to get invested in any part of it because every part of it felt really forced. Speaking of Laika, they've posted concept art for their fourth feature, the tantalizingly bizarrely titled Kudo and the Two Strings, to be released on August 19, 2016:  quote:Kubo and the Two Strings will be directed by Travis Knight, with a voice cast that includes Academy Award® winners Matthew McConaughey and Charlize Theron and Academy Award® nominees Rooney Mara, Ralph Fiennes and Brenda Vaccaro. Art Parkinson is providing the voice for the title character of Kubo. This will be Knight's first time in the director's seat after serving as V.P. of Animation and Lead Animator on all of Laika's previous features, including a producing credit on Boxtrolls.
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Jan 13, 2015 17:19
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Waffleman_ posted:Dreamworks is making a Puss in Boots series for Netflix, further proving that they just can't stop squeezing that green stone for blood. More like blood from anything they produce. Madagascar is a success? Sequels, spin-offs and spin-off series! How to Train Your Dragon did well? Trilogy and a series! Kung-Fu Panda was a hit? Two, no, three, no no...FIVE sequels! And an animated series! Monsters and Aliens only did okay? ................animated series!
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Jan 13, 2015 23:07
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...There's a Monsters vs Aliens series? Monsters vs Aliens was really weird from a design standpoint because all the monsters and the president had (somewhat) interesting designs, but then the main girl is as generic Dreamworks as you can get
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Jan 14, 2015 00:11
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This looks amazing. I love Japanese myth, and the shamisen is one of my favorite instruments.
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Jan 14, 2015 00:32
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axleblaze posted:Speaking of Laika, you people weren't kidding about Boxtrolls being a let down. It was still really beautiful and the cast was great but the plot basically ran on forced premises and characters just being dumb. It was just really hard to get invested in any part of it because every part of it felt really forced. From a writing point of view, Boxtrolls is a loving mess and ends up far more pointless and cynical than their "darker" films as a result.
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Jan 14, 2015 01:01
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Pick posted:From a writing point of view, Boxtrolls is a loving mess and ends up far more pointless and cynical than their "darker" films as a result. Yeah, the more I think about it the worse it fits together. It says something that I felt worse for the main villain, who they go out of their way to make as evil as possible, than I did for the Boxtrolls. It's also odd, and I could be wrong about this, the lesson we're supposed to take from the Boxtrolls and the lesson we're supposed to take from the villain are at complete odds with each other.
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Jan 14, 2015 01:04
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axleblaze posted:Yeah, the more I think about it the worse it fits together. It says something that I felt worse for the main villain, who they go out of their way to make as evil as possible, than I did for the Boxtrolls. It's also odd, and I could be wrong about this, the lesson we're supposed to take from the Boxtrolls and the lesson we're supposed to take from the villain are at complete odds with each other. The lesson of the movie seems to be "self-identify however you want, but asking for real social mobility is evil and trying to live above your station is literally toxic."
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Jan 14, 2015 01:05
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Celery Face posted:I'd also like to take this opportunity to say that Tokyo Godfathers is an awesome movie and you should totally see it if you haven't already. I think it's Satoshi Kon's best film, and that's saying something.
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Jan 14, 2015 01:13
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In general I try not to sperg about movies and pick them apart but there are just so many plot elements that don't make sense, don't add anything, only exist to further the plot or just contradictory to other things in the movie that it's maddening. I feel I could just list and list things ad naseum but I don't feel like putting up a giant spoiler box of just ranting about how a dumb movie didn't make sense. Laika is really awesome so it's just all the more confounding they put out something this incredibly sloppy and badly thought out.
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Jan 14, 2015 01:23
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Despite Box Trolls' disappointment, Laika still has carte blanche with me with regards to watching their movies though. Celery Face posted:I'd also like to take this opportunity to say that Tokyo Godfathers is an awesome movie and you should totally see it if you haven't already. Tokyo Godfathers needs to be on goddamn blu-ray. Ditto Millenium Actress and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time (I know the latter was on blu-ray, but it somehow disappeared forever). Animation really, really benefits from the format.
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Jan 14, 2015 01:27
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You know would could be a good Laika movie? (My first thought was Burton, but he's kind of fizzled out.) The Binding Of Isaac. It'd need some serious adaptation, as, with the exception of a handful of cutscenes totaling maybe five minutes of real content, it's an atmospheric rather than narrative game, and most of the content is gamey and has no place in a film adaptation. But the basic narrative groundwork and atmosphere could be built into a truly great surreal movie (though, as a stop-motion animation movie that's pretty much necessarily R or at least PG-13, it's probably too risky of a proposition).
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Jan 14, 2015 01:35
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axleblaze posted:Yeah, the more I think about it the worse it fits together. It says something that I felt worse for the main villain, who they go out of their way to make as evil as possible, than I did for the Boxtrolls. It's also odd, and I could be wrong about this, the lesson we're supposed to take from the Boxtrolls and the lesson we're supposed to take from the villain are at complete odds with each other. Hell, it's at odds with its own trailer considering that Eggs prioritizes a father he doesn't even know the moment he shows up, and the Boxtrolls themselves are practically irrelevant from there on out.
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Jan 14, 2015 01:39
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LaughMyselfTo posted:You know would could be a good Laika movie? (My first thought was Burton, but he's kind of fizzled out.) The Binding Of Isaac. It'd need some serious adaptation, as, with the exception of a handful of cutscenes totaling maybe five minutes of real content, it's an atmospheric rather than narrative game, and most of the content is gamey and has no place in a film adaptation. But the basic narrative groundwork and atmosphere could be built into a truly great surreal movie (though, as a stop-motion animation movie that's pretty much necessarily R or at least PG-13, it's probably too risky of a proposition). I love that game and all (600+ in the last game, 100+ hours in the new one), but there's no way this would adapt to film. The main reason people play the game is that everything is randomized all the time, and how would you get that into a film? What are the supporting characters, the followers? How will the movie deal with feces, enemies made of feces, abortion jokes, dead babies, religious bashing, vomit, urine, satan, etc etc?
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Jan 14, 2015 01:53
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Directed by Matt Stone and Trey Parker?
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Jan 14, 2015 01:56
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IUG posted:I love that game and all (600+ in the last game, 100+ hours in the new one), but there's no way this would adapt to film. The main reason people play the game is that everything is randomized all the time, and how would you get that into a film? What are the supporting characters, the followers? How will the movie deal with feces, enemies made of feces, abortion jokes, dead babies, religious bashing, vomit, urine, satan, etc etc? Which is why I said you need to build on the game as a foundation instead of expecting it to plop out an outline for a movie for you. As for all of the non-family-friendly content, that's why I said it was necessarily going to be higher than PG (a major negative from investors' perspectives). For characters, I've got to figure that, in keeping with the (preexisting) theme that Isaac is alone and imagining everything, the supporting characters would be aspects of him - probably the "other characters" on the select screen that are actually just Isaac in assorted costumes.
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Jan 14, 2015 02:07
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The story and art style were insufferable enough in the game, nobody wants to watch a movie about a baby killing its mom with poop and aborted fetsus because :iamafag:~religion~ even if it didn't look like it was drawn by a 14 year-old Hot Topic reject.
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Jan 14, 2015 02:11
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GrandpaPants posted:Tokyo Godfathers needs to be on goddamn blu-ray. Ditto Millenium Actress and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time (I know the latter was on blu-ray, but it somehow disappeared forever). Animation really, really benefits from the format. Tokyo Godfathers is one of the best films I have ever seen, period.
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Jan 14, 2015 03:22
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Personally i'd like to see Laika do their take on the 'Series of unfortunate events' books I read as a kid, it seems like a perfect fit for them honestly.
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Jan 14, 2015 03:54
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Not gonna happen since Paramount is making them into a live-action Netflix series.
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Jan 14, 2015 04:05
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Waffleman_ posted:Not gonna happen since Paramount is making them into a live-action Netflix series. They are? First I've heard of this.
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Jan 14, 2015 04:33
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Pixeltendo posted:They are? First I've heard of this. http://deadline.com/2014/11/a-series-of-unfortunate-events-tv-show-lemony-snicket-netflix-1201274454/ Also the Jim Carrey movie came out nearly 11 years ago. Jesus.
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Jan 14, 2015 04:37
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K. Waste posted:
Hm. Couldn't find any asian actors for this, could they. I mean, I love the idea and that they're working with asian mythology, but this star-casting for animated roles thing is frustrating. Yes, this isn't live action whitewashing, and it's not comparable to the Last Airbender or Exodus, but at least throwing some kind of bone would be nice. Neeksy fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 04:55
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animated roles?
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Jan 14, 2015 04:56
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Koramei posted:animated roles? I know it might seem silly, yes it's animation and anybody can play anybody, but asian actors often get the short stick in Hollywood in terms of roles they get to play.
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Jan 14, 2015 05:03
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I meant that it's hardly unique to animation, not that it's not an issue, but then you went and edited your post to include that and made me look silly. 
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Jan 14, 2015 05:18
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Samuel Jackson as Gin Rummy
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Jan 14, 2015 07:36
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Even though it had many shortcomings, it was nice that Boxtrolls had Tracy Morgan playing a white guy. Actually that's an oddly mixed bag because on the one hand it's nice to have the casting thing work in that way for once but on the other hand it wouldn't have killed Boxtrolls to have a single black character.
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Jan 14, 2015 19:02
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