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ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Endorph posted:

anyway my problem with penguindrum is that it sucks

or to be more accurate: utena used its metaphors and symbolism and motifs and whatever other fancy words you wanna add in there to advance the story and characters. you thought about a bit of symbolism and figured out a thing. that's how symbolism is supposed to work. they were obvious enough to be easily figured out but well-used enough to be worthy of thought.

penguindrum used its metaphors and symbolism to advance the metaphors and symbolism. there's no meat, no neat revelations hidden beneath the surface, just more impenetrable layers of bullshit. it's got half the actual substance of utena and ten times the nonsense cloaking it.

im not one of those people who thinks utena is the deepest anime ever made, but that's exactly my point - it wasn't trying to be. it was using those things, but it was using them for a reason, not because ikuhara was masturbating furiously over twin peaks reruns and sailor moon yuri doujins.

Basically we should all just go back to rewatching Eureka Seven and if you MUST experience Yurikuma just pretend Talho and the other adult lady might kiss later after Holland fucks up AGAIN.

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Motto
Aug 3, 2013

coathat posted:

Most yuri is made and read by women. I guess lesbians dehumanize themselves.

dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed

DrPaper
Aug 29, 2011

coathat posted:

Most yuri is made and read by women. I guess lesbians dehumanize themselves.

I forgot Kunihiko Ikuhara was a woman. It doesn't matter who makes it, just because a woman made it doesn't mean it's any better. I'm a woman and a lesbian, and I enjoy fanservice, and I wouldn't care if other people enjoyed fanservice as well if they weren't using the sexuality of the characters to claim their of a higher moral standing than other otaku. Especially when it's used to shadow fanservice of underage characters who get raped by bears, which is pretty gross imho.


Effectronica posted:

Okay, so what I'm getting from this is that you're a pedophile, but at least you're not one of those otaku. Interesting. I also wasn't referring to male-targeted fanservice, either.

How am I pedophile? Are you even trying to participate in this conversation?

Ragnar34
Oct 10, 2007

Lipstick Apathy
Reading this thread is like betting mauled by lesbian bears.

Just watched it and I have no idea how much of that I should take literally. Watching this is like watching Utena for the first time, if I'd skipped straight to the last season.

I'd like it more if I could figure out these characters. Two are bears, one hates bears, everyone is gay, fourth girl, three dudes live in a wall and do court cases. Neat! What??

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

Talho and the other adult lady might kiss later
gidget? isnt she like 16

Captain Failcon
Jul 19, 2008

dill with it
the Something Awful boards are harboring more and more pedophiles by the day it seems

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

DrPaper posted:

I forgot Kunihiko Ikuhara was a woman. It doesn't matter who makes it, just because a woman made it doesn't mean it's any better. I'm a woman and a lesbian, and I enjoy fanservice, and I wouldn't care if other people enjoyed fanservice as well if they weren't using the sexuality of the characters to claim their of a higher moral standing than other otaku. Especially when it's used to shadow fanservice of underage characters who get raped by bears, which is pretty gross imho.


How am I pedophile? Are you even trying to participate in this conversation?

You were the one who said you were no better than someone who jacks it to sexualizes underaged characters, that is, a pedophiliac.

Of course, the question of whether we are meant to treat, say, Utena Tenjou as a literal fourteen-year-old within the context of RGU is one that's thorny because of that sort of accusation, and also not exactly an easy one to answer given the cultural perceptions around high school in Japan.

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014

by Games Forum

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

Makes you think, don't it?

People just assume the demographic for schoolgirl lesbians is "fat hairy virgins" but, for instance, the readership for Yuri Hime is 70% female and they serialize moe series like Yuru Yuri.
I'm male so I just try to be open-minded about everything. If Akiko Morishima thinks portraying sexuality is an important part of fleshing out the relationship between two girls, I want to respect that. Then on the other hand you have mangaka like Aoki Ume, who writes her stories as "so subtext they could possibly be just friends". I think that is also yuri.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Endorph posted:

gidget? isnt she like 16

No the other adult. The one that's not the doctor. The LFO Pilot that's married(?) to Matthieu.

EDIT: Hilda! That's her name.

Space Flower posted:

People just assume the demographic for schoolgirl lesbians is "fat hairy virgins" but, for instance, the readership for Yuri Hime is 70% female and they serialize moe series like Yuru Yuri.
I'm male so I just try to be open-minded about everything. If Akiko Morishima thinks portraying sexuality is an important part of fleshing out the relationship between two girls, I want to respect that. Then on the other hand you have mangaka like Aoki Ume, who writes her stories as "so subtext they could possibly be just friends". I think that is also yuri.

Makes you think, don't it?

ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Jan 6, 2015

DrPaper
Aug 29, 2011

Effectronica posted:

You were the one who said you were no better than someone who jacks it to sexualizes underaged characters, that is, a pedophiliac.

Of course, the question of whether we are meant to treat, say, Utena Tenjou as a literal fourteen-year-old within the context of RGU is one that's thorny because of that sort of accusation, and also not exactly an easy one to answer given the cultural perceptions around high school in Japan.

Sorry, I meant to intone I was just simply" a weird anime person", and that jacking it to lesbian anime girls doesn't make you better than weird anime people just because their lesbians. I was caught of guard when you actually invited me to talk about the subject instead of shirking it off, so I didn't proofread my syntax. I don't tend to watch anime with underaged characters in general because I actually hate children.

Triggerhappypilot
Nov 8, 2009

SVMS-01 UNION FLAG GREATEST MOBILE SUIT

ENACT = CHEAP EUROTRASH COPY




It appears this thread...

has backed down on love.

Motto
Aug 3, 2013

Space Flower posted:

People just assume the demographic for schoolgirl lesbians is "fat hairy virgins" but, for instance, the readership for Yuri Hime is 70% female and they serialize moe series like Yuru Yuri.
I'm male so I just try to be open-minded about everything. If Akiko Morishima thinks portraying sexuality is an important part of fleshing out the relationship between two girls, I want to respect that. Then on the other hand you have mangaka like Aoki Ume, who writes her stories as "so subtext they could possibly be just friends". I think that is also yuri.

Well, Morishima is just the character designer on this, right? The story is Ikuhara's work.

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

DrPaper posted:

Sorry, I meant to intone I was just simply" a weird anime person", and that jacking it to lesbian anime girls doesn't make you better than weird anime people just because their lesbians. I was caught of guard when you actually invited me to talk about the subject instead of shirking it off, so I didn't proofread my syntax. I don't tend to watch anime with underaged characters in general because I actually hate children.

'scool.

Supposedly, there's a hefty straight woman audience for yuri/Class S, which may explain a great deal of genre conceits.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

I'm happy Effectronica and Dr. Paper have become friends. Space Flower might have been onto something.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Motto posted:

Well, Morishima is just the character designer on this, right? The story is Ikuhara's work.

True, though the stuff she normally writes is basically this with less weirdness and more fluff.

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014

by Games Forum

Motto posted:

Well, Morishima is just the character designer on this, right? The story is Ikuhara's work.

She does the manga version all on her own, but the two are separate continuities, so yes.

DrPaper
Aug 29, 2011

Are the timelines going to intersect at all?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Ibram Gaunt posted:

I'm happy Effectronica and Dr. Paper have become friends. Space Flower might have been onto something.
so when do they revolution :greencube:

coathat
May 21, 2007

I think Ikuhara said that she's getting to do whatever she wants with the manga.

DrPaper
Aug 29, 2011

coathat posted:

I think Ikuhara said that she's getting to do whatever she wants with the manga.

I hope she has the bears kill them.

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk
I kinda wonder if Attack on Titan was in Ikuhara's brain when he was cooking this up. I mean, you've got a bizarre carnivorous threat to all human life, a wall that's pretty clearly part metaphor, infiltrators, violent death of the ostensible protagonist's loved one in the first episode... uh... a hunting rifle... ?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

OnimaruXLR posted:

I mean, you've got a bizarre carnivorous threat to all human life, a wall that's pretty clearly part metaphor, infiltrators, violent death of the ostensible protagonist's loved one in the first episode... uh... a hunting rifle... ?
Dragon Ball Z?

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014

by Games Forum

OnimaruXLR posted:

I kinda wonder if Attack on Titan was in Ikuhara's brain when he was cooking this up. I mean, you've got a bizarre carnivorous threat to all human life, a wall that's pretty clearly part metaphor, infiltrators, violent death of the ostensible protagonist's loved one in the first episode... uh... a hunting rifle... ?

I'm feeling a little bit of DOOM: Repercussions of Evil with the blue girl, Kureha.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Actually it's Pacific Rim with bears.

Triggerhappypilot
Nov 8, 2009

SVMS-01 UNION FLAG GREATEST MOBILE SUIT

ENACT = CHEAP EUROTRASH COPY




Sakurazuka posted:

Actually it's Pacific Rim with bears.

But Pacific Rim already had bears in it!

Xun
Apr 25, 2010

This show is bad

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014

by Games Forum

Xun posted:

This show is bad

I like it

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!
On one hand thinly veiled metaphors about teenagers and sexuality is kind of ikuhara's thing

on the other hand, yeesh

Gyra_Solune
Apr 24, 2014

Kyun kyun
Kyun kyun
Watashi no kare wa louse
pointy teeth in an anime bother me for some reason

like that's not even how mouths work unless you're really deliberately trying to do it

I blame excel saga

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

You've obviously never seen an undoctored picture of Kirsten Dunst.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Sakurazuka posted:

You've obviously never seen an undoctored picture of Kirsten Dunst.

teeth like a lamprey

Hocus Pocus
Sep 7, 2011

I haven't watched this show, only watched the opening, and I don't know what the gently caress is going on with this questionably aged, fog filtered, lesbian toe sucking bear behavior, but that song is pretty dope imo.

Hocus Pocus fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Jan 6, 2015

Zettace
Nov 30, 2009
Personally, I liked the self made teeth grinding sounds. The rest of the episode was confusing but was enjoyable, I guess.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
So taken at face value, the courtroom scene was basically just dudes arguing back and forth about maintaining balance between humans and bears before going 'lol jk you are bears it is totally cool if you eat humans because you are hungry', right?

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014

by Games Forum

Serious Frolicking posted:

So taken at face value, the courtroom scene was basically just dudes arguing back and forth about maintaining balance between humans and bears before going 'lol jk you are bears it is totally cool if you eat humans because you are hungry', right?

That just gave me more questions. Like, why are bears holding a trial for whether or not bears can eat humans or not? Do they seriously conduct a trial every time a bear's stomach is empty, or...?

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

I keep wanting to type 'I'm sure we'll get an explanation eventually' but, uh.

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankebetsu_brown_bear_incident

quote:

The Sankebetsu brown bear incident (三毛別羆事件 Sankebetsu Higuma jiken?), also referred to as the Rokusensawa bear attack (六線沢熊害事件 Rokusensawa yūgai jiken?) or the Tomamae brown bear incident (苫前羆事件 Tomamae Higuma jiken?) was the worst bear attack in Japanese history,

...
Dramatization of the incident
Novel

1977: The Bear Storm (羆嵐 Kuma Arashi?) by Akira Yoshimura

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



Arashi literally means storm but its used as a substitute for things like chaos, havoc and even trolling. The act of cutting the flowers and lobbing a brick at them definitely made me think of this bullying type of trolling prevalent now days.

The court scene was weird in general but I think the most important part was when Sexy asked if the girls wanted to remain invisible or if they wanted to eat. Repress, hide whats inside of you or partake in what comes naturally. In contrast, in the walled city everyone seems to be gay but its extremely sterile, lacking any passion. Its a pragmatic sort of love where the girls are together as a form of defense against bears or simply because the girls like each others company.

The Monkey Man
Jun 10, 2012

HERD U WERE TALKIN SHIT
One of the girls is named Katyusha, a reference to the Russian bear, maybe?

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Lestaki
Nov 6, 2009
I'd agree that this lacked the energy of Penguindrum's opening episode. The court scene was dull and difficult to understand at first glance.

The final scene was interesting. 'I won't forgive those who destroy love' is probably the key line in conjunction with all the 'I will fight for love' stuff. Kureha was judged and survived (her love was approved) while the victim clearly failed and was eaten in a more literal sense. I'm suspicious of Sumika given she wandered off on her own even in a world where that's considered a fatal mistake. My guess would be that she was the one to cut the lilies in a rejection of their 'love' and she was judged because 'her love was not true'. Alternately there is a third party who is trying to destroy their love, which would better explain the brick being thrown. Or both, I guess.

I'm also curious as to why Kureha seemed to believe the bears had promised to return Sumika, since I don't recall them ever saying anything like that. At most, she was told that her love would be approved, whatever that means.


Either way I think it's clear that the bear attacks aren't random predation but are a form of judgement, though incidentally the bears definitely seem to enjoy eating people.

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