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One thing that does annoy me about Cataclysm, watching it now, is that it just takes forever to hyperspace the main vessel. There's a reason the Mothership in the original game is tall instead of long. I don't remember if the Taidan mothership had the same issue in the first game. The reason it bugs me is because it drags out a cinematic sequence that just, I don't know, "feels better" in comparison when done in a shortened way. Like there's additional padding that's been cut. I mean, do we really need to see every bit of that giant ship get phased out every time? Weirdest little nitpick I ever wrote, I think, but there you go. Also, what the heck was with the weird accents all of a sudden?
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Jan 4, 2015 21:35
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Carbolic Smokeball posted:The line you're referring to is my favorite line in the entire franchise. Although the one you're talking about is pretty great.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:41
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MJ12 posted:Note that the Acolyte is a design that the Somtaaw don't fully understand, because it is a Bentusi-gifted technology (as were the high-efficiency fighter drives) so the linking technology may be the Somtaaw figuring out how to improvise new features according to what the Acolyte chassis can do but they haven't worked with yet. Keep this in mind for a bit. Also, on the things early in the game (or in the manual) you should keep in mind, keep in mind how the Kuun-Lan introduces itself in Mission 1. That also has a great payoff later. Oh, I know about that little bit. Even with Bentusi level science and magics it's an odd way to design a thing. Also the Somtaaw like to lift design clues from the Bentusi, take a look at our brave little resource processor.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:06
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One thing really makes me sad about this game: The writing is, as mentioned, solid, a little by the numbers, but definitely solid. I'm surprised you didn't mention this, but... The writing team is Martin Cirulis (Mecron) and Arinn Dembo. Graem Castell (voice) is also a familiar name for some reason, but it claims he's only ever worked on Homeworld: Cataclysm. Still... That's a lot of crew we just lost. A lot of crew.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:09
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It's debatable how much crew was lost considering most of lost ship was resource tanks and a shipyard.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:13
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EponymousMrYar posted:Execution is everything. A bad/overused idea done well is leagues better than a good/original idea done poorly. Another part of the manual states that this husbands story, or some variation of it, is actually the case for pretty much all the mimic pilots.... save the "gaining respect", and "rise to be a hero" part of course, because this is Homeworld and the Universe would like to say "gently caress you". They are (usually) made up of the Sleepers who woke up from the cryopods and couldn't deal with reality. Their therapy is to become essentially (spoilered because I'm not sure we have seen the ability yet)suicide bombers. Speaking of great lines, I still don't know whether "Cut us loose" or "I'm sure they'll forget to thank us later" better encapsulates the game. Either are spectacular examples of well-delivered lines in an age before voice acting was really recognized as the art that it is. At any rate, I look forward to seeing the Somtaaw engineers at work, to whom "risk averse" is a malady that will get you kicked out of school. GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 22:36
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The voice acting and some of the audio direction in that cutscene ruins some of it for me. Science guy sounds like the scratch dialogue they recorded to get the timing right but never replaced and then you get Command hearing the agonized screams of the crew in the background but somehow the guy he's talking to doesn't notice until a couple of lines later 
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Jan 4, 2015 22:49
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evilmiera posted:Also, what the heck was with the weird accents all of a sudden? I would attribute that to some lesser Kiith individuals with different accents being assimilated into Somtaaw.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:57
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Kibayasu posted:The voice acting and some of the audio direction in that cutscene ruins some of it for me. Science guy sounds like the scratch dialogue they recorded to get the timing right but never replaced and then you get Command hearing the agonized screams of the crew in the background but somehow the guy he's talking to doesn't notice until a couple of lines later Nah, the camera hears the screaming first, through the hull, and the void of space, for effect.
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Jan 4, 2015 22:59
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evilmiera posted:Also, what the heck was with the weird accents all of a sudden? It's an easy way to represent that Somtaaw has been strengthened and is a political force mostly because a ton of people whose old Kiiths died on Kharak are now members of Somtaaw. Also, now that we've gotten a look at the Acolyte, let's talk about it compared to the Interceptor. The Acolyte is slightly slower, although it accelerates faster, but has nearly 50% more health (220 versus 160) and marginally more damage (the Interceptor does 7 damage per shot and fires every .18 seconds, the Acolyte has 2 7 damage/shot guns that fire once every .3 seconds each). Furthermore, as noted, the Acolyte has 2 missile launchers. Each missile does *400* damage, which means that two Acolytes can one-shot a heavy corvette in an opening alpha strike, and a full wing of Acolytes can instantaneously erase a frigate from a map or cripple a destroyer, basically turning them into the Somtaaw replacement to attack bombers. Unfortunately it costs about 50% more (75 RUs to 55 RUs) to gain these abilities. The Acolyte is basically a interceptor/bomber/light corvette and it's pretty great. MJ12 fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 04:39
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Oh man I'm so glad you're doing this one, its by far my fav homeworld game in the series. I think other people have touched on it already, but someone once summed this game up like this: HW was a story on a galactic scale, this one is an individual story about you and your fleet, it feels so much more important to me for that. And to you haters on the voice acting: voice actors nail it here hands down 
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Jan 5, 2015 05:41
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I don't know, the new fleet command/intelligence sound a little less serious. Yeah, the CUT US LOOSE part is great. The closest thing to horror I've seen in a strategy game. At the end they even sound like it's less "dump us, save yourselves" and more "set us free". I generally like the bumper car aesthetic of the Acolyte, though the name is strange for a mainly industrial (versus religious) clan. So, lore aside, the Mimic is GLA bomb truck IN SPACE?. One thing that's a pity is that Homeworld didn't incentivize the use of probes more. It's such a sci-fi thing to do, sending probes somewhere.
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Jan 5, 2015 06:10
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JamieTheD posted:The writing team is Martin Cirulis (Mecron) and Arinn Dembo. 
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Jan 5, 2015 06:24
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JcDent posted:though the name is strange for a mainly industrial (versus religious) clan. Somtaaw was a highly religious clan on Kharak, before becoming miners. The mining thing was actually a side effect of being a largely neutral party in the middle of a huge war, as I remember it, as they could no longer fund themselves via religious tourism to their many temples, and had no real means of protecting themselves, so when they found high-quality iron ore in one of their valleys, they instantly started trading good steel to the mercenary clan(Soban, if I remember right) in exchange for a thousand-year protection contract.
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Jan 5, 2015 06:30
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MJ12 posted:The Acolyte is basically a interceptor/bomber/light corvette and it's pretty great. I love that the engineers improved on it by just saying "gently caress it, bolt some big rear end missiles to it."
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Jan 5, 2015 06:31
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JcDent posted:I generally like the bumper car aesthetic of the Acolyte, though the name is strange for a mainly industrial (versus religious) clan. Read the Manual! Seriously! It's explained in there! I even linked it the OP for this purpose! Abridged History of Kiith Somtaaw. They were a Religious Kiith (All Kiith on Kharak were one of three super-types: Workers, Soldiers and Priests) who held control over a series of temples that went from the Desert to the highest known peak of Hiigara. People would make pilgrimages through, one of the stations of which was "Kuun-Lan" or "The Purifying Flame". Anyways, during some wars, their homes were cut off from the outside world, and they held an excellent defensive position to keep the marauders out. However, this isolation was bad for the Kiith, and after a couple centuries of this, one of the Kiith-sa had a dream about Saajuk that led her to order dig sites in a remote valley they controlled. What they found was Kharak's greatest source of iron, less than 6 feet down. Naturally, this was cause for concern given that there were still wars going on. (Imagine playing Civ 5 and having the only source of Iron on the map.) Refocusing on this new resource, they contracted Kiith Sobaan mercenaries for protection - a hundred year contract no less! The entire Kiith changed focus from Religion to Mining as this was the way they were shown by Saajuk. This source of Iron carried them into the 'modern' era of Kharak, and Somtaaw were a small, but great Kiith who performed primary resource operations for the Mothership, and operated the Collectors during the Homeworld War. I'm serious. READ THE MANUAL. It's awsome.
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Jan 5, 2015 06:33
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berryjon posted:I'm serious. READ THE MANUAL. It's awsome. I cannot agree more, BUT! There are... rather sizeable spoilers in the unit descriptions, in the sense that they go into detail on all ships in the game regardless of when they're introduced in the plot. Like, things relating to that red stuff that ate half the ship. So, maybe don't read those parts yet? The stuff before that is safe, but don't read the profile of any ship you haven't seen in game if you care about spoilers.
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Jan 5, 2015 06:53
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There's no spoilers in the history and the events of the Hiigaran landfall as far as I can recall. Plus it adds to the exchange between Fleet Command and the Somtaaw Kiith-sa about what to do with the derelict and why the Kiith-sa want to get whatever secrets they can from it by themselves. Kiith Nabaal really likes snapping up smaller Kiith to bolster their numbers and tried to do so with Somtaaw but Paktu and Soban helped back up Somtaaw in staying independent and getting them Mothership time to build their three big ships.
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Jan 5, 2015 07:13
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EponymousMrYar posted:Kiith Nabaal really likes snapping up smaller Kiith to bolster their numbers and tried to do so with Somtaaw but Paktu and Soban helped back up Somtaaw in staying independent and getting them Mothership time to build their three big ships. I've always liked the idea that Soban were just continuing to honor that hundred year contract mentioned above.
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Jan 5, 2015 07:24
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Polaron posted:I've always liked the idea that Soban were just continuing to honor that hundred year contract mentioned above. It's written as pretty much exactly that, actually. quote:Kiith Soban honoured its ancient ties to Somtaaw and opposed Nabaal's power-hungry crusade, and so did the Paktu, a kiith inclined to support Somtaaw both out of historical sympathy with the underdog and respect for the rising confederation of Somtaaw with other weakened Kiithid.
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Jan 5, 2015 07:41
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I get the sense that the manual exists, similar to in Homeworld 1, to make you feel like you're playing as a well-realized people that you give a drat about. Mission 3 wouldn't have punched as hard without knowing what was lost in HW1, and here, knowing the Somtaaw makes you like the dependable little buggers. To clarify, I mean that I don't think the intrigue and stuff is being ignored so much as it's setup to make the setting more fully realized and to explain why the Somtaaw were so eager to get the Box.
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Jan 5, 2015 08:13
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Night10194 posted:I get the sense that the manual exists, similar to in Homeworld 1, to make you feel like you're playing as a well-realized people that you give a drat about. Mission 3 wouldn't have punched as hard without knowing what was lost in HW1, and here, knowing the Somtaaw makes you like the dependable little buggers. To clarify, I mean that I don't think the intrigue and stuff is being ignored so much as it's setup to make the setting more fully realized and to explain why the Somtaaw were so eager to get the Box. It's almost like they have motivation and history!
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Jan 5, 2015 16:00
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berryjon posted:It's almost like they have motivation and history! A quality that is almost non-existent in games these days! I miss good world-building manuals. 
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Jan 5, 2015 16:55
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I miss good world-building period.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:57
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One bit of worldbuilding that actually caused me to laugh like a moron when I first read it is regarding the Recon fighter.quote:"As a result of the fact that most recon patrols require spending long periods of time in a small cockpit, many Seeker pilots are young, single women of smaller stature. This has led to deep recon missions being referred to as 'Heartbreak Patrols'... but whether this is to do with the stress they put on fledgeling relationships, or the disruptions caused by the pilots making up for lost time upon their return is not known." It's a stupid paragraph, and in any other game it would probably have been cut, but it adds a touch of reality to the situation, especially if you've spent a significant time away from a loved one.
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Jan 5, 2015 17:50
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berryjon posted:It's almost like they have motivation and history! Oh, yes. I meant that in response to the person who felt it was all 'thrown away' for the main plot. It's not! It's there to make you give a drat in the first place.
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Jan 5, 2015 17:59
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Berryjon, the video links on page 3 of the thread aren't working for me. They point to a different (removed?) video than the link in the thread OP, which does work.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:22
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propatriamori posted:Berryjon, the video links on page 3 of the thread aren't working for me. They point to a different (removed?) video than the link in the thread OP, which does work. Fixed!
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Jan 5, 2015 18:25
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Koorisch posted:A quality that is almost non-existent in games these days! When I first bought Homeworld I spent a long time in the car on the ride home reading the big manual, poring over the history of the Kiith and just drinking in the backstory. I did the same thing with the Cataclysm manual when my folks bought that, too. When I bought Homeworld 2, however, I was distressed to see the big world-building manual replaced with the more common CD case-sized manual that barely had any mention of the story and focused entirely on the gameplay. That was only the beginning of my disappointments and frustrations.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:29
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MJ12 posted:Note that the Acolyte is a design that the Somtaaw don't fully understand, because it is a Bentusi-gifted technology (as were the high-efficiency fighter drives) so the linking technology may be the Somtaaw figuring out how to improvise new features according to what the Acolyte chassis can do but they haven't worked with yet. Keep this in mind for a bit. Also, on the things early in the game (or in the manual) you should keep in mind, keep in mind how the Kuun-Lan introduces itself in Mission 1. That also has a great payoff later. Yeah, the Acolyte was given to the Somtaaw by the Bentusi for their help in dangerous mining operations, where even Bentusi mining drones don't work. It is mentioned in the manual that since Somtaaw went out into space, they've been building a lot of ties with the Bentusi. The Kuun-Lan and the Faal-Corum probably spend most of their time either mining independently or asking the Bentusi for contracts, if they managed to earn enough goodwill with the Exchange to be given the Acolyte. That or the man responsible for that contract was a really, really shrewd business man. On the other hand, I can imagine the Bentusi's point of view. --- "Hmm? Oh, the Somtaaw Exiles. Following us like eager little puppies again, we see? Tell you what, help us with this mining operation and we'll give you a treat. Remember to be careful, little ones." Delta Green fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 18:48
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JamieTheD posted:One thing really makes me sad about this game: The writing is, as mentioned, solid, a little by the numbers, but definitely solid. I'm surprised you didn't mention this, but... The writing team is Martin Cirulis (Mecron) and Arinn Dembo. Graem Castell (voice) is also a familiar name for some reason, but it claims he's only ever worked on Homeworld: Cataclysm. I was surprised to learn after the trainwreck of "Artistic vision" that was SOTS2 that Mecron was involved with HW:C. Was he the lead writer? Do you know if any of the other big wigs from Kerberos worked on HW:C? JcDent posted:Yeah, the CUT US LOOSE part is great. The closest thing to horror I've seen in a strategy game. That bit gave me nightmares when I was younger playing through this game. Also as a side note to Berryjon: Video looks better, but the sound seems like it's too loud when it's being recorded and it's peaking on bits like some of the music and the cutscene dialogue. It might just be on my end or the result of the game itself, but I noticed it in HW too during cutscenes primarily.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:16
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Zudrag posted:Also as a side note to Berryjon: Video looks better, but the sound seems like it's too loud when it's being recorded and it's peaking on bits like some of the music and the cutscene dialogue. It might just be on my end or the result of the game itself, but I noticed it in HW too during cutscenes primarily. IIRC he's already recorded a bunch of Cataclysm videos, at least through mission 6 or so, so it'll be awhile before we see the changes.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:21
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Zudrag posted:I was surprised to learn after the trainwreck of "Artistic vision" that was SOTS2 that Mecron was involved with HW:C. Was he the lead writer? Do you know if any of the other big wigs from Kerberos worked on HW:C? Marcus Skyler. e: Seriously, though, Arinn Dembo worked on Homeworld (and HW:C), Ground Control, and frikkin Arcanum before moving on to SotS.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:42
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my dad posted:Marcus Skyler. That's crazy. Did their talents just atrophy over the years or were they coralled into positions and creative avenues where they were left to languish? Wait, isn't Dembo the woman who writes erotic Liir fiction?
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Jan 5, 2015 19:53
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murphyslaw posted:That's crazy. Did their talents just atrophy over the years or were they coralled into positions and creative avenues where they were left to languish? No, we did. Also Liir/Tarka Changed Male fiction. Because it was funny. She writes "Liir Are Perfect" fiction though.
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Jan 5, 2015 20:38
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I imagine they kept the under close surveillance while working on HWC. Possibly in pens. Definitely not in positions where they'd get to decide poo poo.
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Jan 5, 2015 20:54
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I did not want to know that. 
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Jan 5, 2015 21:44
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anilEhilated posted:I imagine they kept the under close surveillance while working on HWC. Possibly in pens. Definitely not in positions where they'd get to decide poo poo. It's possible. The other possibility is that their insanity merely progressed as time went on. Where they were sane and able during Cataclysm, illness had set in during SOTS I and had developed into full grown insanity and madness at the time of SOTSII.
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Jan 5, 2015 21:45
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Delta Green posted:It's possible. The other possibility is that their insanity merely progressed as time went on. Or mercon being the head of a project should have never been a thing, seems like everyone that was competent got fed up with his poo poo and quit and now the only people that are left is his circle jerk crew. Dolphins INNN SPAAACCCCEEE, Is a GREAT idea!  How the gently caress is that company not bankrupt? For people who missed out: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3521006&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 HW talk: Kind of annoying on mission one that you can't salvage all those chumps that show up, then the next mission there is the "O we figured out how to salvage again" 
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Jan 6, 2015 01:31
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Crash74 posted:HW talk: Kind of annoying on mission one that you can't salvage all those chumps that show up, then the next mission there is the "O we figured out how to salvage again"
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Jan 6, 2015 01:37
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