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Dvlos
Aug 26, 2003

"I came here to argue with you about a freaking television show!"
I also hope the hunter nerfs do not mean everyone goes Freya/Chronos ADC :sigh:

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Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

syriquez posted:

The problem with Apollo is that he is one of two gods that has no viable counter to a role he can play: Pusher. The teleport actives, first off, don't get you there in time to save the tower (especially when he simply goes "HUEEEE" and has a free 50 physical protection against its attacks...). After that, you're looking at a 240s-120s cooldown item against a god that can be back every minute. And then finally, because Smite doesn't have a Glyph of Fortification or anything similar, he simply takes your towers after a certain amount of time has passed. You can't stop him. He just guarantees it.

Unless he had some seriously bullshit nerfs applied to him (like...straight up unfair changes that would make him unplayable), his ultimate alone means Apollo will always be a top rank Hunter. It's kind of like old Arachne. She was always called "unable to be balanced" by the devs. Apollo is the same drat way. I mean, the dumbest thing about his kit is that its biggest downside is his non-ult escape is a dash, not a leap. That's just idiotic.

As far as the Hunter Nerfs Incoming™, they are adding the attack speed camp for a reason.

Please find me videos of Apollo successfully back dooring towers without a creep wave because I have never seen it but you keep saying it's the biggest problem with him.

Also the attack speed camp is a hunter nerf. Removing their blue hurts most hunters ability to clear early a lot.

Dvlos
Aug 26, 2003

"I came here to argue with you about a freaking television show!"

Mr.Unique-Name posted:

Please find me videos of Apollo successfully back dooring towers without a creep wave because I have never seen it but you keep saying it's the biggest problem with him.

Also the attack speed camp is a hunter nerf. Removing their blue hurts most hunters ability to clear early a lot.

I have seen apollo take out a bloody tower that had half health solo, no creeps and then just ulted out.

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

Dvlos posted:

I have seen apollo take out a bloody tower that had half health solo, no creeps and then just ulted out.

I've only seen something like that happen very late game, and that was when he had a few creeps to start.

Like I said, I don't think Apollo is balanced, I just think you guys are focusing on the wrong things with him. He isn't like old Nu Wa with teleport where you just lose towers if you don't have somebody by every tower at all times.

Ben Nerevarine
Apr 14, 2006
It would almost be better if Apollo's 3 was a leap. At least Awilix would act as a counter.

Relatedly, I played Awilix against a team with a Hou Yi and I ruined that poor guy's day. She is the hardest of hard counters to him.

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

Shab posted:

It would almost be better if Apollo's 3 was a leap. At least Awilix would act as a counter.

Relatedly, I played Awilix against a team with a Hou Yi and I ruined that poor guy's day. She is the hardest of hard counters to him.

His 3 should be a leap and his ult shouldn't have CC immunity until the chariot arrives.

Dvlos
Aug 26, 2003

"I came here to argue with you about a freaking television show!"

Mr.Unique-Name posted:

His 3 should be a leap and his ult shouldn't have CC immunity until the chariot arrives.

I have no problem with his slide, he needs his protections buff removed off his 2 and I like the no cc immunity until chariot idea.

Ben Nerevarine
Apr 14, 2006
With this patch I am crossing my fingers for major kit rehauls for Hades and Anubis to make them more than simply pubstomp gods.

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

Shab posted:

With this patch I am crossing my fingers for major kit rehauls for Hades and Anubis to make them more than simply pubstomp gods.

Anubis just needs to not root himself with half of his loving skills and he'd be fine.

Edit: keep his ult as-is and let him run around while vomiting everywhere. Maybe decrease its cone in that case.

Mr.Unique-Name fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jan 20, 2015

Dvlos
Aug 26, 2003

"I came here to argue with you about a freaking television show!"

Shab posted:

With this patch I am crossing my fingers for major kit rehauls for Hades and Anubis to make them more than simply pubstomp gods.

I do pretty good with anubis and the right team comp...

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

I want them to remove CC immunity from all ults where you fly into the air and make Awilix's ult global.

I think that would be pretty entertaining.

Ben Nerevarine
Apr 14, 2006

Dvlos posted:

I do pretty good with anubis and the right team comp...

I'm a legendary Anubis and I love playing him, and I'm not saying he's completely poo poo tier or anything. He's just too easy to counter/lock down and requires too many items to match up against most of the other mages. And yeah, his lack of mobility during his 1 and ult really kill him. Making him mobile during his 1 would go a long way.

Ruby Prism
Aug 7, 2011

With this, I'll be able to make the ultimate pie!
Regarding Apollo's ult, maybe don't remove CC immunity but make it so he takes more damage during the cast time?

His 2 lasts way too loving long as well honestly. Make it so it doesn't break on damage, but cut its duration in half or something.

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

Sophism posted:

Regarding Apollo's ult, maybe don't remove CC immunity but make it so he takes more damage during the cast time?

His 2 lasts way too loving long as well honestly. Make it so it doesn't break on damage, but cut its duration in half or something.

I'm not sure that would be better. If he hits 2 before ulting then the of couple people not hit by it are still unlikely to burst him down before he gets out unless he took like triple damage, which may be even more punishing to him than my idea.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


I am digging Zhong Kui like heck right now. A mage with a bit of extra tank is totally my bag; I love mages but I can't play squishies in games like this without getting killed to death horribly.

Wish I could buy that Ghostbusters skin. :(

(edit) Question, I still have less than zero idea about most of the items in this game. Will just taking the in-game recommendations from character to character drive me far afield, especially if I don't play Conquest?

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jan 20, 2015

Cerepol
Dec 2, 2011


Ciaphas posted:

Wish I could buy that Ghostbusters skin. :(

Yep I can't spend money on this game because all the good stuff is already done. Apparently I started playing too late.

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

Ciaphas posted:

I am digging Zhong Kui like heck right now. A mage with a bit of extra tank is totally my bag; I love mages but I can't play squishies in games like this without getting killed to death horribly.

Wish I could buy that Ghostbusters skin. :(

(edit) Question, I still have less than zero idea about most of the items in this game. Will just taking the in-game recommendations from character to character drive me far afield, especially if I don't play Conquest?

Recommended items aren't bad with a couple of caveats: 1. It says but Heartseeker for a lot of hunters but don't get that. Get Devourer's Gauntlet instead. 2. Get Bancroft's Talon as your first lifesteal item on most mages, not polynomicon or whatever it says.

cyclonic
Dec 15, 2005

Ciaphas posted:

I am digging Zhong Kui like heck right now. A mage with a bit of extra tank is totally my bag; I love mages but I can't play squishies in games like this without getting killed to death horribly.

Wish I could buy that Ghostbusters skin. :(

(edit) Question, I still have less than zero idea about most of the items in this game. Will just taking the in-game recommendations from character to character drive me far afield, especially if I don't play Conquest?

For Zhongers, there's multiple ways to build him:
Gem of Isolation + Spear of Magus + Bancroft's Talon are good core items. Get Gem first if it seems like you're not surviving long enough, otherwise you can rush Bancroft for slightly riskier play.

I sometimes like to get Warlock's Sash on him in Conquest, but I wouldn't get that in the other modes where the games are shorter.

Good actives to have are Sprint/Beads to help chase down people, or you can be a jerk and grab Aegis to use with your ult (I've never tried this but I hear it's doable).

Other decent items are Magi's Blessing, Ethereal Staff, Voidstone, some CDR items.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Heh. Zhongers. :v:

Thanks for the info. I can say from my last arena that Aegis + ult seems to work fine, and is especially funny when the enemy Odin traps his whole team for you. :getin:


Are the ingame recommended items generally sort of okayish for most gods, then? I don't play all that seriously, League of Legends taught me that taking games seriously is bad for my health.

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

Ciaphas posted:


Are the ingame recommended items generally sort of okayish for most gods, then? I don't play all that seriously, League of Legends taught me that taking games seriously is bad for my health.

For the most part yeah. Some of the recommendations are just not ideal (any magic lifesteal item other than Bancroft's) or are bad for beginners (Heartseeker).

Lprsti99
Apr 7, 2011

Everything's coming up explodey!

Pillbug

Ciaphas posted:

Heh. Zhongers. :v:

Thanks for the info. I can say from my last arena that Aegis + ult seems to work fine, and is especially funny when the enemy Odin traps his whole team for you. :getin:


Are the ingame recommended items generally sort of okayish for most gods, then? I don't play all that seriously, League of Legends taught me that taking games seriously is bad for my health.

IIRC, Odin's teammates can freely walk through his ult.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Lprsti99 posted:

IIRC, Odin's teammates can freely walk through his ult.

Really? Well, they didn't. Guess they thought they had the advantage :v:

cyclonic
Dec 15, 2005

Ciaphas posted:

Heh. Zhongers. :v:

He's tough to play in Arena only because teammates don't always let you stack your passive. He doesn't NEED it but it helps with survivability.

Assault is rough sometimes because when your team actually let's you stack, they hang back which exposes you to the entire enemy team's focus.

So it's kinda weird - he's hard to play depending on your team.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


cyclonic posted:

He's tough to play in Arena only because teammates don't always let you stack your passive. He doesn't NEED it but it helps with survivability.

Assault is rough sometimes because when your team actually let's you stack, they hang back which exposes you to the entire enemy team's focus.

So it's kinda weird - he's hard to play depending on your team.

Do his passive stacks have any effect on the strength of his ultimate? I know they're consumed, but whether it's to any real effect is unclear.

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

Ciaphas posted:

Do his passive stacks have any effect on the strength of his ultimate? I know they're consumed, but whether it's to any real effect is unclear.

IIRC they give him extra protections.

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

Ciaphas posted:

Do his passive stacks have any effect on the strength of his ultimate? I know they're consumed, but whether it's to any real effect is unclear.

He gets double protections from each stack for the duration of the ult, it may decay I don't remember. He doesn't get more pulses or damage or anything from stacks.

Relin
Oct 6, 2002

You have been a most worthy adversary, but in every game, there are winners and there are losers. And as you know, in this game, losers get robotizicized!
Instead of messing with items mayhaps they should change the matchmaking so that 4 stacks don't get put against 5 individual players, and level 6 players dont get matched with level 29 ones

Hamburger Test
Jul 2, 2007

Sure hope this works!

Relin posted:

Instead of messing with items mayhaps they should change the matchmaking so that 4 stacks don't get put against 5 individual players, and level 6 players dont get matched with level 29 ones

But don't you see, you're not allowed to have an above 50% win ratio - if the only way to lower it is to stack the teams againts then so be it!.

cyclonic
Dec 15, 2005

Possible healer nerfs incoming:

Drybear posted:

SMITE healers, that's a mighty fine high horse you've got there.

Healers are already countered by so many things, why are they getting nerfed too? Too many changes I can't take this anymore :psyduck: :negative:

stadontheevergreen
Nov 1, 2012

cyclonic posted:

Possible healer nerfs incoming:


Healers are already countered by so many things, why are they getting nerfed too? Too many changes I can't take this anymore :psyduck: :negative:

Healing is so polarized. If you have it and no one counters it, it is absurd. If they put resources into shutting it down then it is worthless. I would rather it be always viable but never OP.

I would also rather have Hi-Rez not present their future changes in the form of snarky, belittling one liners, but hey, baby steps.

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

cyclonic posted:

Possible healer nerfs incoming:


Healers are already countered by so many things, why are they getting nerfed too? Too many changes I can't take this anymore :psyduck: :negative:

"So many things" being one active? Beat Stick and and the magic equivalent help against healers but don't exactly remove the effect they have on team fights, just decrease it a bit.

As it is now a team with a good Hel or Ra has a huge advantage over one without that.

cyclonic
Dec 15, 2005

Mr.Unique-Name posted:

"So many things" being one active? Beat Stick and and the magic equivalent help against healers but don't exactly remove the effect they have on team fights, just decrease it a bit.

As it is now a team with a good Hel or Ra has a huge advantage over one without that.

Curse, Divine Ruin, Beatstick, Pestilence, Bacchus' 3, Sobek's 3, Chang'e's 3, Odin's ult, Osiris' ult, Serqet's ult. Of course when the general playerbase writes off most of these gods as "trash" and don't counterpick/counterbuild, then yes healers can run rampant.

stadontheevergreen posted:

Healing is so polarized. If you have it and no one counters it, it is absurd. If they put resources into shutting it down then it is worthless. I would rather it be always viable but never OP.

I would also rather have Hi-Rez not present their future changes in the form of snarky, belittling one liners, but hey, baby steps.

HiRez has admitted healers are the hardest for them to balance, and I'm worried what they're planning. That's exactly the problem - if people don't counter healers, it's a squash match.

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

cyclonic posted:

Curse, Divine Ruin, Beatstick, Pestilence, Bacchus' 3, Sobek's 3, Chang'e's 3, Odin's ult, Osiris' ult, Serqet's ult. Of course when the general playerbase writes off most of these gods as "trash" and don't counterpick/counterbuild, then yes healers can run rampant.

Most of those things aren't 100% healing reduction. Several of them are ults with ult cooldowns.

Honestly I don't like healers in general because they're stupid to try to balance around, LoL when I quit playing it last year was a good case study in that. To be fair they're a bit less dominating in Smite than that.

The main problem I have with them is the amount of damage/utility they poo poo out while also providing a huge boost in their team's HP during team fights. I will like they would go a long way towards balancing them by just reducing healing numbers on most abilities by about 20%, they'd still have a decent impact but would be forced to sacrifice a slot to Rod of Aesclepus to be about where they are now.

Chang'e is actually probably in about a good spot, but Hel, Ra, and Aphrodite bring way too much damage and healing combined and force hard counters.

Turpitude
Oct 13, 2004

Love love love

be an organ donor
Soiled Meat
Re: there being no good skins to get now that the Odyssey is over:

-He Bro is one of the very best skins and voice packs in the game. Playing with this skin increases enjoyment by at least 300%. His long rambling joke about catching a sweet wave may be the best voice line in the game.

-Dark Lord Wukong. Really great skin, sweet voice pack.

-Ah Muzen Cab's Dark Whisperer skin lets you play as Cthulhu which is pretty wonderful.

-Swagni and Lil' Mana are there still if you want to annoy your teammates. Lil' Mana's beatboxing is actually really funny.

The other good skins to sweep up if they ever become available again are Elvis Bacchus and Frankenhotep Osiris... every time I play my Elvis Bacchus my entire team is rolling, the voice is unbelievably funny.

kojicolnair
Mar 18, 2009
Lil' Mana was definitely one that I thought I didn't care about until I watched someone using him. Don't actually have it but someday with the free gems I'll get it.

Zagposting
Nov 18, 2012

Don't put points into luck, they said.

It's a useless stat, they said.
Getting into the game post-Odyssey, seeing so many awesome skins be exclusive blows. League had it too, but the majority of LoL's exclusive skins were holiday skins, not awesome concept skins. The fact that they'll come back in a gachapon adds salt to the wound. I already get enough gachapon disappointment from my crummy cell phone games, I don't need any more. :v: It's not a big deal in the long run, though, it just means I won't spend as much on the game.

Dvlos
Aug 26, 2003

"I came here to argue with you about a freaking television show!"
When I think of needed nerfs to this game.. AO and Serqet definitely come to mind before.. healers?

Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

Dvlos posted:

When I think of needed nerfs to this game.. AO and Serqet definitely come to mind before.. healers?

Ao and Serqet definitely need balancing but healing does as well.

I haven't seen anything saying they're foregoing doing something about those two, although they do seem more focused on archetypes (hunters and healers) with what Drybear has said. It could be that he's only mentioning changes that will impact multiple gods.

The REAL Gtab Fan
Apr 12, 2007

Let it post, let it post, can't wait to shit post anymore~
Let it go, let it go, gonna vote one and move onnnnnn~

Mr.Unique-Name posted:

but Hel, Ra, and Aphrodite bring way too much damage and healing combined and force hard counters.

This game is one of hard counters?

Besides, those items and ults listed do a lot to shut down those three. Ever get caught in Odin's ult by those three? Sure hope you have a combat blink! Serqet got you? Sucks to be you! The fact that most of the items aren't '100%' isn't really a problem when you can be touched gently by an ability with divine ruin and be a lot less useful as a healer for the next 8 seconds, which is a very long time in a team fight. A slightly competent enemy team can make quick work of any of those three. I dunno man, watching Hel and Aphro in the SWC get destroyed makes me think most healers are okay or under powered.

Herc and Sylvanus on the other hand.

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Mr.Unique-Name
Jul 5, 2002

The REAL Gtab Fan posted:

This game is one of hard counters?

Besides, those items and ults listed do a lot to shut down those three. Ever get caught in Odin's ult by those three? Sure hope you have a combat blink! Serqet got you? Sucks to be you! The fact that most of the items aren't '100%' isn't really a problem when you can be touched gently by an ability with divine ruin and be a lot less useful as a healer for the next 8 seconds, which is a very long time in a team fight. A slightly competent enemy team can make quick work of any of those three. I dunno man, watching Hel and Aphro in the SWC get destroyed makes me think most healers are okay or under powered.

Herc and Sylvanus on the other hand.

It's when the target of the heal gets hit by Divine Ruin, not the healer itself.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Aphro and Hel picked by teams that didn't have "Cognitive" in their names against ones that did? I don't think that's a good indicator of god strength, if it is then Apollo is perfectly fine.

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