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JB50
Feb 13, 2008

The Rage posted:

I got a job after Obamacare came out and it came with insurance, medical/dental/vision

Hth

Grats welcome to the upper class.

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baw
Nov 5, 2008

RESIDENT: LAISSEZ FAIR-SNEZHNEVSKY INSTITUTE FOR FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY

LookingGodIntheEye posted:

well yeah, but for most of the 20th century the Republican party had been the party for doves and limitation of the military, at least ideologically. Wilson, FDR, and Kennedy/LBJ were the ones that went out on expansive military campaigns and the Coolidges and Ikes stayed at home and went for covert ops, not including Nixon of course (although he was the guy who got elected on the position of pulling us out of Vietnam).Reagan changed that dynamic and now the Republican party is suffering from schizophrenia in trying to cut government yet expand the military and get involved in more wars.

reagan was still pretty pumped about covert ops tho. have berg's wilson biography on my bookshelf and i'll get to it soon (i'm mostly interested in wilson because it he the president nixon most admired)

it's weird the only branches of the government that republicans seem to trust are the ones with a mandate to commit violence

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

baw posted:

(i'm mostly interested in wilson because it he the president nixon most admired)
Hwhut? Dudes really couldn't be any more different in foreign policy goals (Wilson's idealism vs Nixon's almost ruthless pragmatism) and imo Wilson's foreign policy sucked (waffling on Mexico and pissing off Pancho Villa, failing on the League of Nations).

Corn Glizzy
Jun 28, 2007



JB50 posted:

Grats welcome to the upper class.

Oh hell yeah *puts on monocle*

baw
Nov 5, 2008

RESIDENT: LAISSEZ FAIR-SNEZHNEVSKY INSTITUTE FOR FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY

LookingGodIntheEye posted:

Hwhut? Dudes really couldn't be any more different in foreign policy goals (Wilson's idealism vs Nixon's almost ruthless pragmatism) and imo Wilson's foreign policy sucked (waffling on Mexico and pissing off Pancho Villa, failing on the League of Nations).

in Nixon Agonistes, Garry Wills quotes Nixon as saying "You asked me if Teddy Roosevelt was my hero. Not in the sense that Wilson is. I think he was our greatest president of this century...Wilson had the greatest vision of America's world role. But he wasn't practical enough."

pretty prescient considering the book was written in 1969. as you know, nixon was ruthlessly practical

baw fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jan 16, 2015

RavenKrows
May 29, 2008

The Rage posted:

I got a job after Obamacare came out and it came with insurance, medical/dental/vision

Hth

Give it time smarty pants. 90% of professional jobs in my area dropped all spouse coverage, I'm sure my time will come soon enough.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


Laffo, america won 2 world wars but can't even win the fight on tuberculosis and pneumonia. Must be great living in a Third world country yeaaah.

Hazo
Dec 30, 2004

SCIENCE



TheJoker138 posted:

Ha, loser. I've been signed up since last year. And cause I'm poor as poo poo I pay nothing. I went in and got a doctor to look at me for free and a bunch of free allergy medication, it was great. Too bad for you.
lol you should probably know that thanks to republican governors this isn't actually a thing in almost half of the states including mine. I made below poverty level last year so i signed up for medicaid to get me thru til now and they didnt tell me i wasn't eligible (not married, no kids) until after i had emergency surgery in november. i got double owned hard

baw
Nov 5, 2008

RESIDENT: LAISSEZ FAIR-SNEZHNEVSKY INSTITUTE FOR FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY
republican governors and the supreme court that allowed them to opt out of medicaid expansion. basically everything is stupid and lovely

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

baw posted:

as you know, nixon was ruthlessly practical
Which is kind of what I personally want out of the President in foreign policy. I don't really care about any extravagant visions or plans he has for world policy, because those are almost guaranteed to fail unless in extreme conditions like immediately after WWII. It seems better to me to turn foreign policy into a clear-cut, tactical game of spheres of influence and economics and be less concerned with ephemeral public opinion or getting big accomplishments immediately for personal glory and re-election.
I almost wonder if the Presidency would be better served if it were divorced from foreign policy, to prevent US foreign policy from shifting radically every eight years or act as a vehicle for individual megalomania (like LBJ in Vietnam).

America Inc. fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Jan 16, 2015

baw
Nov 5, 2008

RESIDENT: LAISSEZ FAIR-SNEZHNEVSKY INSTITUTE FOR FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY
it's a decent idea but probably impossible. foreign policy has been the role of the head of state for as long as states have existed. a solution would have to involve some sort of non-elected position (like the fed) but even that would be subject to which party is in power when the current head steps down.

as usual the current system sucks but there isn't much that can be done to improve it, except in excruciatingly incremental ways

or maybe they could just make kissinger secretary of state for life

JB50
Feb 13, 2008

Drone_Fragger posted:

Laffo, america won 2 world wars but can't even win the fight on tuberculosis and pneumonia. Must be great living in a Third world country yeaaah.

Whats it like moving your family to England to claim NHS?

JB50 fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Jan 16, 2015

Top City Homo
Oct 15, 2014


Ramrod XTreme

JB50 posted:

Say eh a lot and order poutine to blend in.

its a took not a beanie

there


now you are canadian

Top City Homo
Oct 15, 2014


Ramrod XTreme

LookingGodIntheEye posted:

well yeah, but for most of the 20th century the Republican party had been the party for doves and limitation of the military, at least ideologically. Wilson, FDR, and Kennedy/LBJ were the ones that went out on expansive military campaigns and the Coolidges and Ikes stayed at home and went for covert ops, not including Nixon of course (although he was the guy who got elected on the position of pulling us out of Vietnam).Reagan changed that dynamic and now the Republican party is suffering from schizophrenia in trying to cut government yet expand the military and get involved in more wars.

its almost as though a senile old man spread a schizophrenic policy throughout the government


hmmm

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

Top City Homo posted:

its almost as though a senile old man spread a schizophrenic policy throughout the government


hmmm
It's quite fitting that the face of modern American conservatism is an actor who tried to hide his senility behind fake bravado and empty calls to patriotism, pining for a glorified past the Alzheimers had already wiped away the true memory of.

Hungry Joe
Nov 27, 2006

DDFH

Crusty Nutsack posted:

and they have the smallest premiums. designed for younger, healthier people who don't go to the doctor much. Nothing's stopping anyone from choosing a plan with a lower deductible. If your income is low enough, your deductible will be $0.

Ya I mean, you can go as low as 2k on a deductible with only a $300+ monthly payment! What a steal!

Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007
Ramrod XTreme

Hungry Joe posted:

Ya I mean, you can go as low as 2k on a deductible with only a $300+ monthly payment! What a steal!

keep in mind the deductible can be misleading if you compare it to pre-ACA plans, since many things are 100% covered or partially covered even if you haven't hit your deductible yet. there were also a lot of plans going around pre-ACA that frankly were useless. you got "coverage" but if you actually got hurt it would cover nothing.

i dunno what person under 30 is getting a $300+ premium though. even with zero income assistance i can find a bronze plan in california for under $200/m. if you want an actually decent plan i could pay a little bit more and get a silver plan.

Concerned Citizen fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jan 16, 2015

Hungry Joe
Nov 27, 2006

DDFH

Concerned Citizen posted:

keep in mind the deductible can be misleading if you compare it to pre-ACA plans, since many things are 100% covered or partially covered even if you haven't hit your deductible yet. there were also a lot of plans going around pre-ACA that frankly were useless. you got "coverage" but if you actually got hurt it would cover nothing.

i dunno what person under 30 is getting a $300+ premium though. even with zero income assistance i can find a bronze plan in california for under $200/m. if you want an actually decent plan i could pay a little bit more and get a silver plan.

That's what I remember when I was price shopping but I could definitely be wrong, but i have a feeling not by much. Some of the benefits are nice but considering rn I wouldn't even be able to meet the ded if something came up, I'm not motivated to pay several hundred a month.

Considering the prices you pay monthly reflect your predicted income for the year, you could also end up paying a lot more come tax time if you underestimated income when signing up. I have no idea what I'm going to make a year ahead so it seems risky to lowball.

Tony quidprano
Jan 19, 2014



I can say on extremely good authority that at least up here the difference between 80% and 100% hospital coverage is literally pennies a month. 100% is the default standard up here and people will bitch if they accidentally requested something lower then claim.

Nobody wants to stay in a hospital, its not exactly a benefit you're going to abuse.

sexy young infidel
Nov 13, 2014

Faggot of the Year
2012, 2014

baw posted:

republican governors and the supreme court that allowed them to opt out of medicaid expansion. basically everything is stupid and lovely

nope it was the dumbocrats own fault as usual, they were shysting it up just to trick people into passing the thing in the first place and they hosed themselves. You get the government you deserve :)

plain blue jacket
Jan 13, 2014

IT DOESN'T STOP
IT NEVER STOPS

JB50 posted:

My loving parents were watching him at the time. I love my retarded son.

I don't think they love your retarded son

fuccboi
Jan 5, 2004

by zen death robot
Heard on NPR that one of the biggest co-ops is failing cause thousands of sick people all signed up at once and filed claims. Those people won't have insurance anymore. Lmao.

fuccboi
Jan 5, 2004

by zen death robot
Our country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing

Zig-Zag
Aug 29, 2007

Why don't we just start shooting tar heroin instead?
I pay 30 bucks a month for health insurance and get 1200 a year to spend on co-pays and prescriptions.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy

JB50 posted:

190 million+ for a website and thats only one state.

i'll make the website

Hungry Joe
Nov 27, 2006

DDFH
I would marry / gay marry someone if I could mooch off their health benefits. Like that episode of its always sunny

gary oldmans diary
Sep 26, 2005
lol if youre too dumb to be poor enough for medicaid

Dick Fagballzson
Sep 29, 2005
Anything below a platinum plan is going to be worthless and leave you bankrupt if you get really sick and need to be hospitalized. And platinum plans are basically just normal, pre-Obamacare health insurance plans that cost $300+ a month even if you're healthy.

Forcing poor people who can't really afford health insurance to buy plans that don't really cover anything is what you get when HMOs basically write the laws.

Dick Fagballzson fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jan 16, 2015

Crusty Nutsack
Apr 21, 2005

SUCK LASER, COPPERS


Dick Fagballzson posted:

Anything below a platinum plan is going to be worthless and leave you bankrupt if you get really sick and need to be hospitalized. And platinum plans are basically just normal, pre-Obamacare health insurance plans that cost $300+ a month even if you're healthy.

Having a plan, even a lower one like silver, is going to prevent people from going bankrupt. There's this thing called max out of pocket per year, and those are usually under $10k, except for catastrophic plans. I'm in a silver plan and mine's like $6k/year. So if you get in a car accident and need to be in ICU for a week, the most you will spend on that hospital trip is $6k.

Dick Fagballzson
Sep 29, 2005
You really think someone who is broke enough to be on a bronze or silver plan can afford $6K? And the deductible is so high it basically doesn't cover anything unless something catastrophic happens.

sexy young infidel
Nov 13, 2014

Faggot of the Year
2012, 2014
[me, eating some crackers and just chilling]: its loving amazing how much more health insurance costs, after the affordable healthcare act... wierd

Crusty Nutsack
Apr 21, 2005

SUCK LASER, COPPERS


Dick Fagballzson posted:

You really think someone who is broke enough to be on a bronze or silver plan can afford $6K? And the deductible is so high it basically doesn't cover anything unless something catastrophic happens.

Well you're not wrong. The problem is that the plans being offered are essentially the same plans that they could have purchased individually all along from the same insurance companies (unless they had pre-existing conditions etc. where the ins co could tell them to gently caress off).

Though, if someone is unemployed for instance, the max out of pocket drops along with all the other costs, too, based on your income. That is obviously the main difference now.

Really the problem is STILL the insurance companies offering poo poo plans based on maximum profits. The problem isn't "obamacare," but since most people aren't familiar with how insurance really works, they blame obamacare. Can't blame people for not understanding though, health insurance is incredibly convoluted and hosed up in this country.

sexy young infidel
Nov 13, 2014

Faggot of the Year
2012, 2014

Crusty Nutsack posted:

Well you're not wrong. The problem is that the plans being offered are essentially the same plans that they could have purchased individually all along from the same insurance companies (unless they had pre-existing conditions etc. where the ins co could tell them to gently caress off).

Though, if someone is unemployed for instance, the max out of pocket drops along with all the other costs, too, based on your income. That is obviously the main difference now.

Really the problem is STILL the insurance companies offering poo poo plans based on maximum profits. The problem isn't "obamacare," but since most people aren't familiar with how insurance really works, they blame obamacare. Can't blame people for not understanding though, health insurance is incredibly convoluted and hosed up in this country.

oh word?

Tony Homo
Oct 30, 2014

by zen death robot

Dolphin posted:

I just logged into my spouse's account to try that instead. Her old account was locked and her password no longer worked so I called tech support and they sent me a temporary password. The temporary password got me to the password reset page where it told me to reenter the temp password and create a new password. Then it said I had the wrong temporary password. The one I have saved to my clipboard. The one I just entered to get me to the password reset page.

I have had this happen to me and still can't get in. I even called them. I don't want to re-enter the stuff either. I'll just do what I always do and goto the emergency room and after treatment not pay.

JB50
Feb 13, 2008

Crusty Nutsack posted:

Well you're not wrong. The problem is that the plans being offered are essentially the same plans that they could have purchased individually all along from the same insurance companies (unless they had pre-existing conditions etc. where the ins co could tell them to gently caress off).

Though, if someone is unemployed for instance, the max out of pocket drops along with all the other costs, too, based on your income. That is obviously the main difference now.

Really the problem is STILL the insurance companies offering poo poo plans based on maximum profits. The problem isn't "obamacare," but since most people aren't familiar with how insurance really works, they blame obamacare. Can't blame people for not understanding though, health insurance is incredibly convoluted and hosed up in this country.

They shoulda called it the "Money for website developers act"

190 million to improve the website. Probably cost three times that just to set it up.

Demonachizer
Aug 7, 2004

Dolphin posted:

You have started an application for health coverage, but our verification system is temporarily unavailable. Without completing verification, you cannot submit your application for an eligibility determination.

We will save your information and expect to resolve the problem within 24 hours. When you return, please review your entire application from beginning to end in order to receive your online eligibility results.

I don't have to sign up for obamacare because I have a real job.

Tony quidprano
Jan 19, 2014



Dick Fagballzson posted:

You really think someone who is broke enough to be on a bronze or silver plan can afford $6K? And the deductible is so high it basically doesn't cover anything unless something catastrophic happens.

I want to show some rough calculations of how bullshit these plans are but I'll have to wait till I get home cause showing it on my phone would be a bitch. But I'll start with this, most the silver plans I look at have around an annual $6k cap on you paying your $2k deductible and 20% coinsurance. Removing the deductible, $4k/20%= ~$20k in annual claims.

So basically don't claim anything unless you're in an emergency room.

Crusty Nutsack
Apr 21, 2005

SUCK LASER, COPPERS


JB50 posted:

They shoulda called it the "Money for website developers act"

190 million to improve the website. Probably cost three times that just to set it up.

Probably. The rollout and websites and all that are hosed to all hell, but that's a different issue than the insurance companies still loving people over on top of it. Luckily you only deal with the exchanges until you choose a plan, at which point you deal exclusively with the insurance company. The only time you go back to the exchange is to change something like income or pick a new plan.

fuccboi
Jan 5, 2004

by zen death robot
The cool thing about jobs, real jobs, is that they have to compete on what insurance to offer their employees. If it doesn't cover enough, or is too expensive, employees will quit. Just one way the free market works. Hopefully that gives all you internet socialists crowing about single-payer something to think about. Like maybe, working for a living instead. :smug:

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Tony quidprano
Jan 19, 2014



Slipknot Hoagie posted:

The cool thing about jobs, real jobs, is that they have to compete on what insurance to offer their employees. If it doesn't cover enough, or is too expensive, employees will quit. Just one way the free market works. Hopefully that gives all you internet socialists crowing about single-payer something to think about. Like maybe, working for a living instead. :smug:

That works real well when the unemployment rate is 5%. I've yet to see a mass exodus of employees on a group that cut their benefits to the bone.

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