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i apologize to my infant child every day as i sincerely believe existence is one of the cruelest things you can inflict on a person
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Jan 22, 2015 22:19
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Talmonis posted:Errr, a lot of those tests are done well after the first trimester. Checking for undeveloped or malformed lungs, brain, bowel, etc. im glad your singular, unique experience with impending fatherhood has touched you deeply and profoundly but it turns out many other people have had this same experience, myself included, and my now birthed child is still basically a tumor with eyes that i love very much once you start making emotional appeals you've lost bro
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Jan 22, 2015 23:57
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Zeitgueist posted:If we're going to bug folks making emotional arguments I recommend "comatose internal parasite" "if it weren't for the heavy doses of oxytocin and bonding hormones which flood my brain in the presence of my child, i would eliminate this squalling hellbeast at the earliest opportunity" boner confessor fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 01:13
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Guavanaut posted:David Benatar makes a fairly solid case that there are always harms involved in bringing a child into existence, and that those harms outweigh any benefits by means of asymmetry. (If you exist, you experience both harm and pleasure, if you don't exist, you don't experience the harm and you don't miss the pleasure.) Since the child cannot consent as to whether to exist or not, that balance of harm is taken on behalf of the child by the parent without their consent. Sure, if the parent really wants the child, they will bring the child into existence whatever, but it means that any argument that the pro-life side puts forward about the fetus not getting a choice in being aborted has a counter in the fetus not getting a choice in being born, and we can show that at least one of those does demonstrably cause asymmetric suffering. yeah this is pretty much my attitude, life is an equal share of pain and pleasure and it's insanely brutal to subject another person to living without their consent. creating an unwilling life is the same to me as ending one, something which should never be done willingly but the whole human tragedy just kind of keeps lurching on anyway so you just have to accept that things happen and deal with the consequences
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Jan 23, 2015 01:17
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Drunk Orc posted:I think of myself as pretty progressive but I don't think I should die just because my dad raped my mom, what's so weird about that? It's your mother's decision to use her body to care for you, the product of rape, if she chooses it.
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Jan 30, 2015 16:26
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Drunk Orc posted:I mean that's kind of an obtuse assumption made after the fact isn't? you can't miss living before you're ever alive Drunk Orc posted:Living is pretty cool and telling people their mom would've been fully justified in effectively murdering them is kind of screwed up, man. that's the truth. your mother has a choice to bring you into this world or not. her decision does not need to be justified. consider what you're in favor of here, compulsory pregancy. think about that for a minute
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Jan 30, 2015 16:32
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Drunk Orc posted:Well it's not like they have to keep the child, there are orphanages and stuff. she has the choice to not be pregnant, also Drunk Orc posted:Human life has intrinsic value beyond comprehension and the way you guys simply dismiss it as a personal choice is super eerie and kind of fascist sounding, to be honest. you should have played this troll out longer, it was soft but might have eventually gone somewhere if you were patient (much like a fetus) anyway human life isn't special, but consciousness is. this is why abortion should be permitted and we should have stronger protection for animals, especially animals which have higher order brain function
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Jan 30, 2015 16:40
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Drunk Orc posted:I'm being serious though? Is there really that much of a difference between deciding to kill an unborn because it's not financially viable for an individual or simply "isn't a good time", and exterminating people based on society not wanting to/being unable to provide for them? functionally the child is dead either way, but morally there is a difference. people have varied opinions about this unknowable problem and no opinion is any more valid than another, which is why we defer then to giving people the freedom to choose what happens with their own bodies e: oh you were saying is there a difference between killing a fetus and a grown person, which is a much stupider question. yes there is a difference between killing a person who is alive and can think versus killing a not-yet person who cannot think and is only technically alive
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Jan 30, 2015 16:47
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Drunk Orc posted:I was genuinely interested in what people thought of this, no need to start belittling me in the midst of a civilized discussion. You people just can't fathom that someone would have a different worldview than you, it's kind of sad really. you deserve to be belittled if you ask "what is the difference between aborting a fetus and murdering an adult" that is legitimately a dumb question like i said you should have put more slack on this troll it's too obvious dude
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Jan 30, 2015 17:55
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Phyzzle posted:The idea is that you cannot put yourself in a risky situation, then cite self-preservation or self-defense when you're suddenly in an unintentional-but-foreseeable bit of danger. yes you can. worked for george zimmerman
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Jan 30, 2015 18:37
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Drunk Orc posted:But Zimmerman was most likely defending himself from a violent attacker, not deciding to kill because he got knocked up and didn't want to deal with the consequences/responsibility of his actions. How is that analogy even reasonable? 
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Jan 30, 2015 18:46
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poopinmymouth posted:And the 2nd, is it really a basic autonomy/no-autonomy trying to get people to make a decision earlier? I don't want to strap anyone down and force them to give birth, but I find the idea of late term abortions extremely off-putting and violent, to the point I'd like to support the best possible way to reduce them. that would be first trimester abortions
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Jan 30, 2015 20:37
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poopinmymouth posted:Sure, but as I posted, none of those reasons are listed as the top reasons as to why American women seek late term abortions, and with rape, well they knew it was rape back before week 20+. late term abortions are extremely rare. why do you think American women seek them, and how frequently do you think they happen?
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Jan 30, 2015 21:06
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Phyzzle posted:I'm positing that a fetus is not a person who is attached to you, uh
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Jan 30, 2015 21:08
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I would like to submit a thought experiment. I dunno where your thought experiment is happening but this is not legal in the US. Ignoring that, there's no moral difference between driving slightly under and slightly over the speed limit, except one speed is illegal.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:03
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Pixelated Dragon posted:A miscarriage is a terrible and traumatic thing to go through. Why would anyone want to further victimize women who endure such a tragedy if there is little to no evidence that they induced it? And where will it stop? Will this country start blaming women when they give birth to ill babies? a lot of people have really visceral emotional reactions to dead fetuses
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Feb 4, 2015 18:44
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Twelve by Pies posted:I agree it was a bad choice, but it was still her choice and I kinda felt like it's a bit wrong to frame it as "This is why pro-life beliefs are bad!" Pro-life beliefs are bad because they don't allow women a choice in the first place, pointing to an issue where a woman had a choice and chose an option we don't like sucks, but it's not an example of why pro-life policies are bad. Besides, the only alternative to this is to have denied her the choice by forcing her to take the operation, which would also be a denial of choice, which is not a pro-choice position. This is all true and I agree with you but this is something awful, so "It's a good thing she gave that child its best chance at life. Shame about the other three"
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Feb 24, 2015 18:04
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