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I'm just reading about a 1716 battle/declaration of war between the Spanish and the English in the Battle of Cape Passaro, near Sicily. The biggest gun ship in two fleets was a 90 gun monster, and it was English. How different was the Spanish fleet? I couldn't find a 90+ gun ship until like 1765 Half of Europe was killing each other in boats. Crews treated as property, Pirates life would have looked pretty sweet to me. I genuinely love this stuff but i'm an aviation nerd.
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Feb 3, 2015 08:40
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God I love when this thread gets technical about ships.  I actually really would like it if this episode had been entirely Flint and Co. I don't really care about Nassau so much as "the adventures of Flint on a warship."
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Feb 3, 2015 08:41
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double
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Feb 3, 2015 08:54
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So, uh, did, Dufresne just sit in his cabin and sulk while Flint went and attended the vote (and presumably made a case for himself)? Because that would do a lot to explain the result.
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Feb 3, 2015 09:01
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Probably, it seems like the failed boarding knocked him off the power trip he has been on since they raided the slavery ship.
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Feb 3, 2015 09:08
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Scuzzywuffit posted:So, uh, did, Dufresne just sit in his cabin and sulk while Flint went and attended the vote (and presumably made a case for himself)? Because that would do a lot to explain the result. Judging by his eyes, looked like he was having a cry too. Honestly I can't really blame him. Dude got played pretty hard but oh well.
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Feb 3, 2015 09:12
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Capn Beeb posted:Judging by his eyes, looked like he was having a cry too. Yeah, I can't blame him either, but it does make it a lot easier to see why the crew was willing to accept Flint as captain again. He started to lead during the battle, but he continued afterward as well.
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Feb 3, 2015 09:26
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Gamesguy posted:I thought all 94 gun ships were all second rates of the line. So they'd definitely have the larger cannons? 94 guns was a first rate in almost every navy in that time and only used when you needed your big swinging dick flopping in the wind.About 60 24lb cannons or so, and the remaining ones of different poundage. Rocksicles posted:I'm just reading about a 1716 battle/declaration of war between the Spanish and the English in the Battle of Cape Passaro, near Sicily. The biggest gun ship in two fleets was a 90 gun monster, and it was English. Conflicting notes but it seems that the Spaniards favored smaller boats than the english in the beginning of the century, like 55 to 60 guns.From 1734 forward they embarked in a massive effort to keep along and introduced bigger and sturdier boats.El Real Felipe was a 114 gun ship launched in 1732 till he got hosed up in battle in 1750. poo poo I need to watch Master and Commander again.Crying shame they never filmed the sequels. hump day bitches! fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 11:14
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Rocksicles posted:double Awful app bug. Sorry
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Feb 3, 2015 11:26
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Lamadrid posted:poo poo I need to watch Master and Commander again.Crying shame they never filmed the sequels.
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Feb 3, 2015 11:33
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Rougey posted:Binge on Hornblower. Watched the first episodes and holy poo poo it's ugly as all hell.
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Feb 3, 2015 11:35
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Gamesguy posted:I thought all 94 gun ships were all second rates of the line. So they'd definitely have the larger cannons? Generally yes, though the rating system was pretty malleable and captains liked to mix and match their weapons at will if they could. The three deciding factors for decent fighting ships were stability (hundreds of sailors and their families died when the HMS Royale George tipped over in port during yardwork that changed the center of gravity), speed (first rates and flagships were often white elephants since they were so big and could barely maneuver) and crew space (those guns take up a lot of room). Depending on what they were doing and how far they were going they might have more or less guns of a certain size. I believe the 94 gun figure comes from somebody counting the number of portholes in the broadside.  Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 11:56
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Scuzzywuffit posted:So, uh, did, Dufresne just sit in his cabin and sulk while Flint went and attended the vote (and presumably made a case for himself)? Because that would do a lot to explain the result. He realized that Flint not only played him but was happy to sacrifice the lives of his men just so he'd could become captain again. He was a good contrast to the other quartermaster that got beheaded since they were both just looking out for the crew but ended up defeated by the pure savagery of the captain.
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Feb 3, 2015 11:56
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God this gif still brings a smile to my face every time I see it. I've played plenty of video games with big ships in them and seen plenty of movies with battles, but that whole scene was the first time I really appreciated how utterly loving terrifying it would be to have a giant ship unleash a broadside on you. Obviously it helps that the entire season was building up to that moment/fight, but the way it was shot, the sound design, and how long the Man 'o War just kept loving pounding them with fire really emphasized just how screwed Flint & Co were.
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Feb 3, 2015 12:23
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I don't know how else to say this, except no. I suppose there's gently caress no. Or gently caress you. Silver is a lot more tolerable/funny than I remembered.
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Feb 3, 2015 12:36
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Lamadrid posted:94 guns was a first rate in almost every navy in that time and only used when you needed your big swinging dick flopping in the wind.About 60 24lb cannons or so, and the remaining ones of different poundage. I'm watching it now. Amazing how naval warfare hardly changed for 300 years, besides slow technological advances. The movie is like 90 years after after Black Sails. Those anchors though! 11 tonnes, all hand winched up
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Feb 3, 2015 13:09
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Rocksicles posted:I'm watching it now. Amazing how naval warfare hardly changed for 300 years, besides slow technological advances. The movie is like 90 years after after Black Sails. That movie is gorgeous.The ship battles look like paintings with all the smoke.One of the thing I "dislike" about Black Sails is the how low-key and weightless all the action looks and that contrasts with M&C,in which every cannon shot feels earth shattering.
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Feb 3, 2015 14:14
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:I'm digging this show a lot, but god drat! They need a bit less of the Banshee style sex/violence and more straight up Master and Commander historical strategy bits. I would loving kill for a few more scenes per episode that were more about the history/strategy stuff. The tits and rear end and 6 pack abs are fine, I'm not saying remove them. Just use something other than "hot dude with eyeliner on" to keep us interested. How about a hot goat with eyeliner? Rougey posted:Binge on Hornblower. I remember watching the first couple of episodes of this back when it first aired on A&E and liking it then, has it held up over the years?
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Feb 3, 2015 19:19
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savinhill posted:How about a hot goat with eyeliner? It's probably quite hot in the gently caress tent. And eyeliner seemed to be in good supply in Nassau.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:22
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Speaking of which, where are we on the issue of the gently caress tent?
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Feb 3, 2015 21:13
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:Speaking of which, where are we on the issue of the gently caress tent? 
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Feb 3, 2015 22:05
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Shadow puppets are getting more and more lewd these days.
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Feb 3, 2015 22:27
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Lamadrid posted:That movie is gorgeous.The ship battles look like paintings with all the smoke.One of the thing I "dislike" about Black Sails is the how low-key and weightless all the action looks and that contrasts with M&C,in which every cannon shot feels earth shattering. Master and Commander was also filmed on a real ship, the HMS Suprise which you can see at San Diego.
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Feb 4, 2015 00:24
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Finally caught up and god drat they need to stop with the nonstop mutiny poo poo. If there's one more Flint mutiny even mentioned I'm gonna break something. Ned Low seems like the character I was hoping Vane would be but he's never going to stop the pity party bullshit apparently. It's weird that Low comes across as a complete psycho when he's not even arguably doing poo poo that's completely out of line compared to the other captains (Flint especially) or crews. They're all mass murders at this point but I guess it's the acting that makes Low feel even more ominous.
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Feb 4, 2015 04:29
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Midnight City posted:They're all mass murders at this point but I guess it's the acting that makes Low feel even more ominous. Low has no such mask.
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Feb 4, 2015 08:18
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Well, that and the fact that Low kills/tortures people because he enjoys it whereas the other captains kill because someone's continued existence is incompatible with their goals. From what I can remember of captains killing their own crew: Flint killed a man in a fair fight because he was trying to take over as captain and killed his quartermaster as painlessly as possible after he refused to obey orders. I don't remember Vane killing any of his crew, but I'm sure he probably did. Ned Low publicly tortured and beheaded his quartermaster for talking to a business contact of theirs (he was actually trying to depose Low, but for all Low knew he was just trying to smooth things over so they can get paid next time they come to port).
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Feb 4, 2015 08:48
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Cat Hatter posted:Well, that and the fact that Low kills/tortures people because he enjoys it whereas the other captains kill because someone's continued existence is incompatible with their goals. From what I can remember of captains killing their own crew: Flint killed a man in a fair fight because he was trying to take over as captain and killed his quartermaster as painlessly as possible after he refused to obey orders. I don't remember Vane killing any of his crew, but I'm sure he probably did. Ned Low publicly tortured and beheaded his quartermaster for talking to a business contact of theirs (he was actually trying to depose Low, but for all Low knew he was just trying to smooth things over so they can get paid next time they come to port). Well, Mr. Meeks does say he was trying to protect the crew and all but confirmed Low's suspicions. Really, it was Meeks' fault when you think about it. Was asking for it, if you will.
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Feb 4, 2015 23:49
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Solice Kirsk posted:Well, Mr. Meeks does say he was trying to protect the crew and all but confirmed Low's suspicions. Really, it was Meeks' fault when you think about it. Was asking for it, if you will. I agree that Meeks didn't answer that question properly (although it still could have been taken as "I tried to smooth things over even though you didn't want me to because its best for the crew") but they weren't engaged in a combat situation or even at sea. Meeks' fate should have been put to a vote that would probably have seen him kicked off the crew (possibly with an rear end-beating).
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Feb 5, 2015 00:28
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The 'rules' are really more like guidelines in actuality, Vane was notorious for stealing from his crews.
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Feb 5, 2015 00:59
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Party Plane Jones posted:The 'rules' are really more like guidelines in actuality, Vane was notorious for stealing from his crews. I meant "should have" more as what a normal pirate would have done (although I did check to see if irl Ned Low had a rule about it). I just think that if everyone wants the show to take place more on ships, then we're going to have to let them tell-and-not-show that Ned is a bit of a psycho for now.
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Feb 5, 2015 07:45
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As somebody who really enjoyed the other pirate show with kenny powers and john malkovich, is black sails worth getting in to?
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Feb 5, 2015 08:17
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BCBUDDHA posted:As somebody who really enjoyed the other pirate show with kenny powers and john malkovich, is black sails worth getting in to? I find Crossbones to be a lovely excuse of a pirate show, but I love Black Sails. I sort of liked the premise to begin with, with Crossbones, but I could never get interested in the characters, the setting, or the plot! Black Sails has its slow spot, but it sort of kept me dragging along anyway, until it exploded and now just keeps on burning into season 2. In that way, it's sort of like Homeland too, with its slow start, and excellent payoff.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:31
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Yeah I thought Crossbones was one of the worst shows on TV when I tried to get into it. I remember thinking that almost every single scene was completely nonsensical, which would have been impressive if it was so-bad-it's-good, but instead it was just kind of boring. If you like pirate stuff then definitely check Black Sails out since it's actually good, but if you just want lots of goofy ridiculous poo poo then this show doesn't really do that. Season 1 especially is much more about the island and intra-crew politics. Has a hell of a payoff in the finale though, and season 2 so far is off to a great start.
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Feb 5, 2015 08:44
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I can't wait to see what kind of sick deadlifts Billy Guns can bust out once that leather tightens into the worlds most awesome lifting vest.
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Feb 5, 2015 15:02
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Can someone clarify a point for me? I thought Flint's plan for taking over the Spanish Man O'War was for he and Silver to infiltrate and take out the watch, but then transmit some kind of signal that this had been done so that the pirates could begin their boarding and assault with a degree of safety. But after killing the watch, Flint and Silver were continually caught up in being captured, fighting, boarding themselves up in the hold where they were being interrogated etc. Did this part of the plan get cancelled out because they were simply unable to do it? Did the pirates coming from ashore simply monitor events and then conclude that signal or not the situation was right for them to begin their attack? I feel like I missed something here, and maybe a very brief shot of the pirates in the longboats making the decision to begin their attack would have helped the narrative a bit. The whole sequence from the time Flint and Silver boarded the ship until the main pirate attack began was pure gold. I loved the argument over the boatswain's whistle/bauble, and especially Flint giving the reasoning of why Silver should kill the dude with the scars (and then Silver's reaction  ).Almost a Walter White/Jesse vibe there, heh.
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Feb 5, 2015 17:35
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You didn't miss anything, it was purposely set up as a surprise moment for impact. Flint and Silver's interactions are what come closest to the show's only actual friendship at this point and I love it too. I was going to write something earlier about how nobody on this show has friends apparently, they're all either unconcerned with other people's feelings (Anne/Jack) or outright killing each other (Flint/Gates). I mean yeah that fits a pirate show but it also wipes out like half of all character arcs at the same time and instead we have people backstabbing/betraying each other that feels routine after awhile.
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Feb 5, 2015 17:41
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John Silver is going to be a pretty rad quartermaster for Flint
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Feb 5, 2015 17:47
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Did pirate crews of this era have a designated first mate/first officer, or, as the show seems to depict, did the quartermaster tend to fill this role as "second most responsible and senior member of the crew, and closest confidant and adviser to the captain"? I thought QMs were just in charge of supplies, acquisitions and the budget, although that is a very important responsibility indeed.
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Feb 5, 2015 17:56
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They served a bit of a different role for pirates quote:Pirates during the Golden Age of Piracy elevated the rank of quartermaster to much higher powers and responsibilities than it had aboard any merchant or naval vessel. The quartermaster was often granted a veto power by a pirate ship's "Articles of Agreement", in order to create an officer who could counterbalance the powers of the pirate captain. Pirate quartermasters, like pirate captains, were usually elected by their crews.
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Feb 5, 2015 18:00
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SaltLick posted:They served a bit of a different role for pirates Awesome info and history. I just now, for the first time, realized by looking at Toby Stephens' IMDB filmography that he was the pedantic tit in Severance who "won" the argument about what happens when someone's head gets cut off.
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Feb 5, 2015 18:08
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