Black man attacked by white man for legally carrying gun

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > Black man attacked by white man for legally carrying gun

Universe Master: Jun 20, 2005; Darn Fine Pie

Rutibex posted:

if you study the history of gun law you will find that the "gun nuts" are actually 100% correct. it has been statistically proven that areas where people carry guns and are expected to defend themselves have less crime. also like drug laws being about race instead of public safety; gun laws are almost universally about preventing revolution (just like the republicans say!) and not about public safety:

http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Violence-Joyce-Lee-Malcolm/dp/0674016084/

Did you know that there are no tiger attacks in Montana? Clearly it's due to the abundance of guns.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:21

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 18:35

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Universe Master posted:

Did you know that there are no tiger attacks in Montana? Clearly it's due to the abundance of guns.

she compares the same areas before and after gun legislation; apples to apples

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323777204578195470446855466

quote:

Joyce Lee Malcolm: Two Cautionary Tales of Gun Control
After a school massacre, the U.K. banned handguns in 1998. A decade later, handgun crime had doubled.
By
Joyce Lee Malcolm
Dec. 26, 2012 6:28 p.m. ET

Americans are determined that massacres such as happened in Newtown, Conn., never happen again. But how? Many advocate more effective treatment of mentally-ill people or armed protection in so-called gun-free zones. Many others demand stricter control of firearms.

We aren't alone in facing this problem. Great Britain and Australia, for example, suffered mass shootings in the 1980s and 1990s. Both countries had very stringent gun laws when they occurred. Nevertheless, both decided that even stricter control of guns was the answer. Their experiences can be instructive.

In 1987, Michael Ryan went on a shooting spree in his small town of Hungerford, England, killing 16 people (including his mother) and wounding another 14 before shooting himself. Since the public was unarmed�as were the police�Ryan wandered the streets for eight hours with two semiautomatic rifles and a handgun before anyone with a firearm was able to come to the rescue.

Nine years later, in March 1996, Thomas Hamilton, a man known to be mentally unstable, walked into a primary school in the Scottish town of Dunblane and shot 16 young children and their teacher. He wounded 10 other children and three other teachers before taking his own life.
ENLARGE
David Klein

Since 1920, anyone in Britain wanting a handgun had to obtain a certificate from his local police stating he was fit to own a weapon and had good reason to have one. Over the years, the definition of "good reason" gradually narrowed. By 1969, self-defense was never a good reason for a permit.

After Hungerford, the British government banned semiautomatic rifles and brought shotguns�the last type of firearm that could be purchased with a simple show of fitness�under controls similar to those in place for pistols and rifles. Magazines were limited to two shells with a third in the chamber.

Dunblane had a more dramatic impact. Hamilton had a firearm certificate, although according to the rules he should not have been granted one. A media frenzy coupled with an emotional campaign by parents of Dunblane resulted in the Firearms Act of 1998, which instituted a nearly complete ban on handguns. Owners of pistols were required to turn them in. The penalty for illegal possession of a pistol is up to 10 years in prison.

The results have not been what proponents of the act wanted. Within a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. Gun crime, not a serious problem in the past, now is. Armed street gangs have some British police carrying guns for the first time. Moreover, another massacre occurred in June 2010. Derrick Bird, a taxi driver in Cumbria, shot his brother and a colleague then drove off through rural villages killing 12 people and injuring 11 more before killing himself.

Meanwhile, law-abiding citizens who have come into the possession of a firearm, even accidentally, have been harshly treated. In 2009 a former soldier, Paul Clarke, found a bag in his garden containing a shotgun. He brought it to the police station and was immediately handcuffed and charged with possession of the gun. At his trial the judge noted: "In law there is no dispute that Mr. Clarke has no defence to this charge. The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant." Mr. Clarke was sentenced to five years in prison. A public outcry eventually won his release.

In November of this year, Danny Nightingale, member of a British special forces unit in Iraq and Afghanistan, was sentenced to 18 months in military prison for possession of a pistol and ammunition. Sgt. Nightingale was given the Glock pistol as a gift by Iraqi forces he had been training. It was packed up with his possessions and returned to him by colleagues in Iraq after he left the country to organize a funeral for two close friends killed in action. Mr. Nightingale pleaded guilty to avoid a five-year sentence and was in prison until an appeal and public outcry freed him on Nov. 29.
***

Six weeks after the Dunblane massacre in 1996, Martin Bryant, an Australian with a lifelong history of violence, attacked tourists at a Port Arthur prison site in Tasmania with two semiautomatic rifles. He killed 35 people and wounded 21 others.

At the time, Australia's guns laws were stricter than the United Kingdom's. In lieu of the requirement in Britain that an applicant for permission to purchase a gun have a "good reason," Australia required a "genuine reason." Hunting and protecting crops from feral animals were genuine reasons�personal protection wasn't.

With new Prime Minister John Howard in the lead, Australia passed the National Firearms Agreement, banning all semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic and pump-action shotguns and imposing a more restrictive licensing system on other firearms. The government also launched a forced buyback scheme to remove thousands of firearms from private hands. Between Oct. 1, 1996, and Sept. 30, 1997, the government purchased and destroyed more than 631,000 of the banned guns at a cost of $500 million.

To what end? While there has been much controversy over the result of the law and buyback, Peter Reuter and Jenny Mouzos, in a 2003 study published by the Brookings Institution, found homicides "continued a modest decline" since 1997. They concluded that the impact of the National Firearms Agreement was "relatively small," with the daily rate of firearms homicides declining 3.2%.

According to their study, the use of handguns rather than long guns (rifles and shotguns) went up sharply, but only one out of 117 gun homicides in the two years following the 1996 National Firearms Agreement used a registered gun. Suicides with firearms went down but suicides by other means went up. They reported "a modest reduction in the severity" of massacres (four or more indiscriminate homicides) in the five years since the government weapons buyback. These involved knives, gas and arson rather than firearms.

In 2008, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported a decrease of 9% in homicides and a one-third decrease in armed robbery since the 1990s, but an increase of over 40% in assaults and 20% in sexual assaults.

What to conclude? Strict gun laws in Great Britain and Australia haven't made their people noticeably safer, nor have they prevented massacres. The two major countries held up as models for the U.S. don't provide much evidence that strict gun laws will solve our problems.

Rutibex fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jan 23, 2015

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:24

hemale in pain: Jun 5, 2010

Rutibex posted:

she compares the same areas before and after gun legislation; apples to apples

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323777204578195470446855466

on the other hand uk doesn't regularly have school shootings

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:34

Zzulu: May 15, 2009; (â°ËvËâ°)

yet

america is simply so far ahead of the curve when it comes to being a great country that the lesser countries like England are still catching up. Eventually we'll have regular school shootings all over the developed world

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:36

hemale in pain: Jun 5, 2010

Zzulu posted:

yet

america is simply so far ahead of the curve when it comes to being a great country that the lesser countries like England are still catching up. Eventually we'll have regular school shootings all over the developed world

i can't wait!!

e: 2010 uk had 0.25 gun deaths per 100,000 people. clearly banning guns does nothing.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:38

Pondex: Jul 8, 2014

Zzulu posted:

yet

america is simply so far ahead of the curve when it comes to being a great country that the lesser countries like England are still catching up. Eventually we'll have regular school shootings all over the developed world

Truly America is the envy of the world. The rest of us can only hope to achieve your level of gun-deaths one day.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:40

cams: Mar 28, 2003

Rutibex posted:

she compares the same areas before and after gun legislation; apples to apples

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323777204578195470446855466

i'm not gonna read this article but

"we made handguns illegal and then for some reason the amount of illegal activities involving handguns doubled i cannot explain this"

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:44

Benjamin Arthur: Nov 7, 2012

Firearm-related homicide rate per 100,000 population per year:
UK: 0.04
USA: 2.83

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:48

Benjamin Arthur: Nov 7, 2012

Rutibex posted:

she compares the same areas before and after gun legislation; apples to apples

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323777204578195470446855466

The UK banned guns handguns in 1998 after a school massacre, it's now 2015 there's not been a single school shooting in the UK since. This is evidence that gun control doesn't work to gun nuts.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:52

Fog Tripper: Mar 3, 2008; by Smythe

Guns are cool and fun. Legally awesome.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:58

Triple A: Jul 14, 2010; Your sword, sahib.

Benjamin Arthur posted:

Firearm-related homicide rate per 100,000 population per year:
UK: 0.04
USA: 2.83

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

cherrypicking.txt

# ? Jan 23, 2015 12:59

Universe Master: Jun 20, 2005; Darn Fine Pie

Article in support of carrying guns finds it disturbing that some British police are now carrying guns.

Universe Master fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Jan 23, 2015

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:00

Benjamin Arthur: Nov 7, 2012

Triple A posted:

cherrypicking.txt

lmao it would take the most extreme cherry pick of all time to find a statistic where the US beats the UK regarding gun crime.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:01

Triple A: Jul 14, 2010; Your sword, sahib.

Benjamin Arthur posted:

lmao it would take the most extreme cherry pick of all time to find a statistic where the US beats the UK regarding gun crime.

i look forward to your leaps of logic when the next mass shooting happens in your senile land of depression and violence :allears:

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:03

Benjamin Arthur: Nov 7, 2012

Triple A posted:

i look forward to your leaps of logic when the next mass shooting happens in your senile land of depression and violence

You'll have to wait a while, I look forward to your childish defense of your idiot murder toys when the US has one next week

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:04

Benjamin Arthur: Nov 7, 2012

also please tell me about how the country with terrible mental healthcare and regular race riots gets to lecture about depression and violence :allears:

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:06

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Benjamin Arthur posted:

Firearm-related homicide rate per 100,000 population per year:
UK: 0.04
USA: 2.83

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

you can't dismiss statistics that compare a single place before and after gun restrictions with a comparison of two places that are entirely different. let me just compare this banana to this apple: look how different they are!

cams posted:

i'm not gonna read this article but

"we made handguns illegal and then for some reason the amount of illegal activities involving handguns doubled i cannot explain this"

thats a shame because then you would realize that this argument makes no sense. the article points out that the handgun crimes before the ban didnt involve legally registered weapons anyway. criminals just became bolder after the ban

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:08

Benjamin Arthur: Nov 7, 2012

Rutibex posted:

you can't dismiss statistics that compare a single place before and after gun restrictions with a comparison of two places that are entirely different. let me just compare this banana to this apple: look how different they are!

e- gun homicides in UK in 1998, the year of the ban: 196
Most recent data:
2009: 150
2010: 165
2011: 146

Benjamin Arthur fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Jan 23, 2015

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:11

I Pledge The Legence: Sep 18, 2009; Gleaming the Cube

we don't have gun crime in the uk, it is haram and ours is a religion of peace.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:12

Triple A: Jul 14, 2010; Your sword, sahib.

Obscuritatem posted:

we don't have gun crime in the uk, it is haram and ours is a religion of peace.

don't worry, all the decapitations on the streets are just part of the everyday routine in our multicultural society

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:14

Benjamin Arthur: Nov 7, 2012

Triple A posted:

don't worry, all the decapitations on the streets are just part of the everyday routine in our multicultural society

and I hear non-Muslims won't even dare step foot in Birmingham

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:16

Junkfist: Oct 7, 2004; FRIEND?

England is a dirty island filled with burberry rioters wielding improvised melee weapons, the elderly people who hide under doilies from them and uncomfortable humor.

There are also pockets of Muslim Caliphates.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:30

Al Cowens: Aug 11, 2004; by WE B Bourgeois

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:35

Triple A: Jul 14, 2010; Your sword, sahib.

just remember, homicides don't matter if they aren't committed with firearms / hidden behind a different definition of murder from other countries

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:36

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Benjamin Arthur posted:

e- gun homicides in UK in 1998, the year of the ban: 196
Most recent data:
2009: 150
2010: 165
2011: 146

the book has a lot more statistics covering multiple countries and time periods. i can't quote the entire thing all I can say is that it was pretty compelling evidence for the argument that gun bans increase violence. the author is a PhD professor of constitutional law and the book is well cited. i wont post wikipedia at you for 5 page like this is D&D :shrug:

http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Violence-Joyce-Lee-Malcolm/dp/0674016084/

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:42

Benjamin Arthur: Nov 7, 2012

Triple A posted:

just remember, homicides don't matter if they aren't committed with firearms / hidden behind a different definition of murder from other countries

USA has horrible murder rate compared to other developed countries, just more evidence that gun control is a failure from our resident inbred gun nuts

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:43

Ramsus: Sep 14, 2002; by Hand Knit

420DD Butts posted:

(western) europe doesn't have insane gun violence because they tend not to be mentally ill and armed to the teeth over there

if you are seriously afraid that someone is going to rob you at all times, you are exactly the type of person who needs to never own a gun

no you just get stabbed or beaten which also results in death, sounds good

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:45

Benjamin Arthur: Nov 7, 2012

Rutibex posted:

the book has a lot more statistics covering multiple countries and time periods. i can't quote the entire thing all I can say is that it was pretty compelling evidence for the argument that gun bans increase violence. the author is a PhD professor of constitutional law and the book is well cited. i wont post wikipedia at you for 5 page like this is D&D

http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Violence-Joyce-Lee-Malcolm/dp/0674016084/

In the case of the UK she seems pretty happy to ignore that after the initial short-term rise; gun crime falls consistently in the UK in the long term. She also seems to ignore the obvious point about the UK banning handguns after a school massacre; that it's so far been completely successful preventing another occurrence of such tragedies. I don't doubt it's all written well and such but she has a pretty clear bias in the way she presents evidence.

Benjamin Arthur fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Jan 23, 2015

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:49

Junkfist: Oct 7, 2004; FRIEND?

Non-Americans please stop Chicago-Shaming us, thank you.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:50

social vegan: Nov 7, 2014

"Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen" lol

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:54

Zzulu: May 15, 2009; (â°ËvËâ°)

Triple A posted:

just remember, homicides don't matter if they aren't committed with firearms / hidden behind a different definition of murder from other countries

United states topping this chart as well lol, only beaten by crazy slavs in Poland

Why are you so violent

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:58

skaboomizzy: Nov 12, 2003; There is nothing I want to be. There is nothing I want to do.
I don't even have an image of what I want to be. I have nothing. All that exists is zero.

I like how English hooligans learned to weaponize newspapers

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:58

I Pledge The Legence: Sep 18, 2009; Gleaming the Cube

i was at high school during the dunblane massacre just a town over.
we all got to go home at lunchtime, it was pretty exciting.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 13:59

Triple A: Jul 14, 2010; Your sword, sahib.

Zzulu posted:

United states topping this chart as well lol, only beaten by crazy slavs in Poland

Why are you so violent

Detroit

# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:00

Demon Of The Fall: May 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

he saved that black man from being shot at some other point that day, he should be rewarded and celebrated

# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:06

Triple A: Jul 14, 2010; Your sword, sahib.

Demon Of The Fall posted:

he saved that black man from being shot at some other point that day, he should be rewarded and celebrated

you say that like the people here actually care about black

# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:07

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Obscuritatem posted:

we don't have gun crime in the uk, it is haram and ours is a religion of peace.

even France has AK-47's

you're a loving disgrace england

# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:11

Mr. Pumroy: May 20, 2001

if that guy actually called the cops instead of tackling him, there definitely would have been a dead body at the end of all this

# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:16

GORDON: Jan 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

I'm a white guy and I just want to speak out and say that what this other white guy did was not cool, and he kind of deserves a beat-down for it. Not all white people are like that, most of us like legally carrying guns and really have nothing against black people.

Responding for white people, I have been GORDON.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:17

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 18:35

Prawned: Oct 25, 2010

If you like and support gun ownership you are a literal retard baby manchild, grownups don't need to run around with their compensatory pew pew toys all day (or at all).

# ? Jan 23, 2015 14:18

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