why is trotskyism bad?

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Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

*chris rock voice* i like trotskyists but i HATE trots!!!

# ? Jan 25, 2015 23:14

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 07:25

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

trostskyism is actually extremely popular every other wednesday between 8 and 9pm at the community centre

# ? Jan 25, 2015 23:16

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

# ? Jan 25, 2015 23:39

Eustachy: May 7, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JauB3k4-tZQ

# ? Jan 25, 2015 23:46

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

i had the trotskys once

it was real bad i needed to go to the emergency room and be hooked up to an iv

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:11

Freestyle: Sep 2, 2014; by R. Guyovich

Dave Concepcion posted:

what would stalin have become if he grew up in an american suburb during the 90s?

One hell of a CEO

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:13

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Pretty much all modern communists are absolute poo poo. They're either useless academics offering no actual solutions or policies and think pointing out how right marx was about capitalism will some how bring about the revolution, or they think Stalin did nothing wrong and everything bad the soviet union did was because the west forced them and North Korea is in the same situation and if we just gave them everything they wanted it would turn into a workers paradise.

The problem with "marxism" is there's really no such thing. Marx mostly wrote a very accurate explanation on how capitalism works and why it's bad and will lead to bad poo poo, and he laid out some really high-level theory on what a system that wasn't capitalism would need to not do, but no where does he actually lay out the specific policies you'd need for communism. Every communist movement is just someone reading some Marx and coming up with their own system. It's like asking what an atheist culture would look like, or what ethics an atheist should have. As long as you don't believe in gods you're technically an atheist but everything else is totally up in the air. It's the same problem with marxism, as long as there isn't a capitalist class and the workers control (how?) the means of production (exactly defined as what?) you could claim to be a "marxist society".

The soviets unfortunately set the tone with their extremely bad and generally extremely wrong interpretation of marx and now that's what everyone associates it with. Lenin was just as wrong as Stalin who was just as wrong as Trotsky or Mao or any of them.

I'd love to see some western leftists actually develop a modern and even marketable form of Marxism that has absolutely nothing to do with idiot soviets but modern leftists are too busy flipping out about GMO's and nuclear power and the never ending search of more and more ridiculous poo poo to get outraged over.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:22

Miltank: Dec 27, 2009; by XyloJW

Eustachy posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JauB3k4-tZQ

Chomsky's response to this women is very good.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:23

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

Baronjutter posted:

Pretty much all modern communists are absolute poo poo. They're either useless academics offering no actual solutions or policies and think pointing out how right marx was about capitalism will some how bring about the revolution, or they think Stalin did nothing wrong and everything bad the soviet union did was because the west forced them and North Korea is in the same situation and if we just gave them everything they wanted it would turn into a workers paradise.

The problem with "marxism" is there's really no such thing. Marx mostly wrote a very accurate explanation on how capitalism works and why it's bad and will lead to bad poo poo, and he laid out some really high-level theory on what a system that wasn't capitalism would need to not do, but no where does he actually lay out the specific policies you'd need for communism. Every communist movement is just someone reading some Marx and coming up with their own system. It's like asking what an atheist culture would look like, or what ethics an atheist should have. As long as you don't believe in gods you're technically an atheist but everything else is totally up in the air. It's the same problem with marxism, as long as there isn't a capitalist class and the workers control (how?) the means of production (exactly defined as what?) you could claim to be a "marxist society".

The soviets unfortunately set the tone with their extremely bad and generally extremely wrong interpretation of marx and now that's what everyone associates it with. Lenin was just as wrong as Stalin who was just as wrong as Trotsky or Mao or any of them.

I'd love to see some western leftists actually develop a modern and even marketable form of Marxism that has absolutely nothing to do with idiot soviets but modern leftists are too busy flipping out about GMO's and nuclear power and the never ending search of more and more ridiculous poo poo to get outraged over.

*snort* *snicker*

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:35

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

i get regular emails from trotskyists demanding i defend beleaguered hero bashar al assad from western imperialism

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:38

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

im like gently caress off im busy

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:38

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

Baronjutter posted:

Pretty much all modern communists are absolute poo poo. They're either useless academics offering no actual solutions or policies and think pointing out how right marx was about capitalism will some how bring about the revolution, or they think Stalin did nothing wrong and everything bad the soviet union did was because the west forced them and North Korea is in the same situation and if we just gave them everything they wanted it would turn into a workers paradise.

The problem with "marxism" is there's really no such thing. Marx mostly wrote a very accurate explanation on how capitalism works and why it's bad and will lead to bad poo poo, and he laid out some really high-level theory on what a system that wasn't capitalism would need to not do, but no where does he actually lay out the specific policies you'd need for communism. Every communist movement is just someone reading some Marx and coming up with their own system. It's like asking what an atheist culture would look like, or what ethics an atheist should have. As long as you don't believe in gods you're technically an atheist but everything else is totally up in the air. It's the same problem with marxism, as long as there isn't a capitalist class and the workers control (how?) the means of production (exactly defined as what?) you could claim to be a "marxist society".

The soviets unfortunately set the tone with their extremely bad and generally extremely wrong interpretation of marx and now that's what everyone associates it with. Lenin was just as wrong as Stalin who was just as wrong as Trotsky or Mao or any of them.

I'd love to see some western leftists actually develop a modern and even marketable form of Marxism that has absolutely nothing to do with idiot soviets but modern leftists are too busy flipping out about GMO's and nuclear power and the never ending search of more and more ridiculous poo poo to get outraged over.

*steals ur lunch money*

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:39

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Gazpacho posted:

*chris rock voice* i like trotskyists but i HATE trots!!!

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:55

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

The radical left was much better back in the 70's when they actually murdered people and blew poo poo up.

The lack of murder and mayhem in modern socialism is very sad.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 00:56

DoctorStrangelove: Jun 7, 2012; IT WOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT MEIN FUHRER!

FreudianSlippers posted:

The radical left was much better back in the 70's when they actually murdered people and blew poo poo up.

The lack of murder and mayhem in modern socialism is very sad.

Well they're just as ineffective nowadays but alleast they're only hurting themselves at this point so from where I'm standing this is an improvement.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:12

Kyrie eleison: Jan 26, 2013; by Ralp

FreudianSlippers posted:

The radical left was much better back in the 70's when they actually murdered people and blew poo poo up.

The lack of murder and mayhem in modern socialism is very sad.

Hmm... personally I think murder and mayhem are bad.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:18

Ramrod Hotshot: May 30, 2003

Harald posted:

bring back lf

# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:21

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Kyrie eleison posted:

Hmm... personally I think murder and mayhem are bad.

You can't make an omelette without murdering a bunch of people.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:23

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Also everyone knows Hoxahism is the only true form of communism. Everyone else is social imperialist revisionist scum.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:25

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Dave Concepcion posted:

what would stalin have become if he grew up in an american suburb during the 90s?

Suburban commando

# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:42

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Baronjutter posted:

Pretty much all modern communists are absolute poo poo. They're either useless academics offering no actual solutions or policies and think pointing out how right marx was about capitalism will some how bring about the revolution, or they think Stalin did nothing wrong and everything bad the soviet union did was because the west forced them and North Korea is in the same situation and if we just gave them everything they wanted it would turn into a workers paradise.

The problem with "marxism" is there's really no such thing. Marx mostly wrote a very accurate explanation on how capitalism works and why it's bad and will lead to bad poo poo, and he laid out some really high-level theory on what a system that wasn't capitalism would need to not do, but no where does he actually lay out the specific policies you'd need for communism. Every communist movement is just someone reading some Marx and coming up with their own system. It's like asking what an atheist culture would look like, or what ethics an atheist should have. As long as you don't believe in gods you're technically an atheist but everything else is totally up in the air. It's the same problem with marxism, as long as there isn't a capitalist class and the workers control (how?) the means of production (exactly defined as what?) you could claim to be a "marxist society".

The soviets unfortunately set the tone with their extremely bad and generally extremely wrong interpretation of marx and now that's what everyone associates it with. Lenin was just as wrong as Stalin who was just as wrong as Trotsky or Mao or any of them.

I'd love to see some western leftists actually develop a modern and even marketable form of Marxism that has absolutely nothing to do with idiot soviets but modern leftists are too busy flipping out about GMO's and nuclear power and the never ending search of more and more ridiculous poo poo to get outraged over.

Arrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh you have my axe

# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:45

PTSDeedly Do: Nov 24, 2014; VOID-DOME LOSER 2020

Harald posted:

bring back lf

# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:50

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Baracula posted:

*steals ur lunch money*

Guess I'll just have to have FREE BREAD AND MUSTARD at the state-run canteen.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 01:58

SOME PIG: Aug 12, 2004; Hittin' Switches,
Twistin' wigs with
Phat Radical Mathematical type Scriptures

I've invented a new movement a year or two ago. It's called "cyber-communism" or possibly "techno-communism" (cooler sounding). I'm still working on figuring out what it is, though.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 02:19

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

dethkon posted:

I've invented a new movement a year or two ago. It's called "cyber-communism" or possibly "techno-communism" (cooler sounding). I'm still working on figuring out what it is, though.

Do I get a cyber-dragon body?

# ? Jan 26, 2015 02:33

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

dethkon posted:

I've invented a new movement a year or two ago. It's called "cyber-communism" or possibly "techno-communism" (cooler sounding). I'm still working on figuring out what it is, though.

Obviously it would revolve around sharing torrents. From each according to minimum upload ratios, to each according to internet speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_J-whJfmA

# ? Jan 26, 2015 03:58

SOME PIG: Aug 12, 2004; Hittin' Switches,
Twistin' wigs with
Phat Radical Mathematical type Scriptures

Baronjutter posted:

Do I get a cyber-dragon body?

Yeah! And you both get to help write the manifesto.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:06

MoreLikeTen: Oct 21, 2012; The farmer's mistake was believing he had any control over his life.

Half the communists I meet are people who would have been on the first train to Siberia (trans, gay, rich, etc.). Why don't these people worship a broken system that wouldn't have casually murdered them?

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:11

TEAYCHES: Jun 23, 2002

MoreLikeTen posted:

Half the communists I meet are people who would have been on the first train to Siberia (trans, gay, rich, etc.). Why don't these people worship a broken system that wouldn't have casually murdered them?

the USSR wasnt communist it was state capitalist and became a reactionary empire as time went on hth

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:13

get that OUT of my face: Feb 10, 2007

MoreLikeTen posted:

Half the communists I meet are people who would have been on the first train to Siberia (trans, gay, rich, etc.). Why don't these people worship a broken system that wouldn't have casually murdered them?

because internet marxists are intellectually lazy and can't think of a way to achieve socialsim besides marxism-leninism

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:14

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

MoreLikeTen posted:

Half the communists I meet are people who would have been on the first train to Siberia (trans, gay, rich, etc.). Why don't these people worship a broken system that wouldn't have casually murdered them?

lol what rich communists do you know

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:15

MoreLikeTen: Oct 21, 2012; The farmer's mistake was believing he had any control over his life.

TEAYCHES posted:

the USSR wasnt communist it was state capitalist and became a reactionary empire as time went on hth

Nope, they still love all the stupid posters and art and poo poo. That would actually be a smarter position that most of them hold.

Y-Hat posted:

because internet marxists are intellectually lazy and can't think of a way to achieve socialsim besides marxism-leninism

Isn't there a way to criticize modern capitalism without slobbering over failed states?

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:16

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

dethkon posted:

I've invented a new movement a year or two ago. It's called "cyber-communism" or possibly "techno-communism" (cooler sounding). I'm still working on figuring out what it is, though.

thats ok but i call cyber communism tia

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:17

TEAYCHES: Jun 23, 2002

i call cyber jihad

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:17

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

The cyber workers revolution.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:18

get that OUT of my face: Feb 10, 2007

MoreLikeTen posted:

Isn't there a way to criticize modern capitalism without slobbering over failed states?

yes, but again, they lack the intellectual vigor to imagine things being any other way

i hope syriza does well in greece because then there will be absolutely no reason to worship at the altar of Lenin anymore

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:19

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3: Nov 15, 2003

MoreLikeTen posted:

Isn't there a way to criticize modern capitalism without slobbering over failed states?

lack of regulation and oversight in the international bond market was instrumental in causing the greatest global economic crisis in modern history

but koba would have fixed it.

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:20

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

There was actually a big "Cybernetics" movement in the mid soviet union. When the first computers came around the sort of "engineering elite" bureaucrats of the soviet union envisioned a system where most all the day to day work of the government would be turned over and math and computers. Everything would be perfectly measured and processed.

http://www.df.lu.lv/fileadmin/user_upload/lu_portal/projekti/df/Vesture/p566-feigenbaum_par_Arinu.pdf

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:23

TEAYCHES: Jun 23, 2002

and yea i mean in the last few years theres been a lot of left activity beyond the "altar of Lenin" - an accurate description because it was embarrassingly religious

theres some decent socialist writing and theory coming out of jacobin. the cyber revolution marches forward hurr

good general socialist criticism is common enough though now that i think painting it all as sucking leninist/soviet cock is a strawman i dont see much anymore. its going to be interesting to see how syriza forms a new government without a majority, and what happens in the EU

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:24

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 07:25

Al Cowens: Aug 11, 2004; by WE B Bourgeois

Baronjutter posted:

There was actually a big "Cybernetics" movement in the mid soviet union. When the first computers came around the sort of "engineering elite" bureaucrats of the soviet union envisioned a system where most all the day to day work of the government would be turned over and math and computers. Everything would be perfectly measured and processed.

http://www.df.lu.lv/fileadmin/user_upload/lu_portal/projekti/df/Vesture/p566-feigenbaum_par_Arinu.pdf

RIP Cybersyn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b-bijO3uEw

# ? Jan 26, 2015 04:24

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > why is trotskyism bad?

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