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When I played I assumed it was really realistic, because people like covering up the horrible things behind benign words. Like when people deal with death they say "X person isn't with us," instead of "X person is dead," because the former is easier to deal with.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:02
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Carbon dioxide posted:Executive summary with spoilers removed: Also, if I'm reading this right, it seems his cousin was somewhere on the autism spectrum, and living in a southern town filled with deeply religious racists, didn't fit in at all and had virtually no one capable of understanding him. Which, considering the overall plot of this game, is oddly mirroring.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:04
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GoatLord posted:That's just it; nobody is being fooled, yet still the translation insists on the 'polite' fiction. The refusal to call a spade a spade winds up being more offensive than just using the word 'slave' could ever be. Thinking back, I don't recall being offended by it, per se. It was more that I just assumed that everyone in the game's world used polite terms for it, which made it seem even more hosed up. I am still not sure now whether this really was a half-assed Nintendo of America whitewash or a translation issue, or maybe I was right and the intent was that everyone really does call it that.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:07
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Well the only problem there is that even the abolitionists and the area name cards use the euphemism. I'll concede that it's possible it was a massive translation gently caress-up rather than a NoA censorship gently caress-up, but it's not like this game has any shortage of dumb censorship changes.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:14
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Yorkshire Tea posted:When I played I assumed it was really realistic, because people like covering up the horrible things behind benign words. Like when people deal with death they say "X person isn't with us," instead of "X person is dead," because the former is easier to deal with. You know, that's what I always figured, too. Also, it's been a while since I played this game so correct me if I'm wrong but it was all a bit West India Company-esque in that there was a legit front for the business with slave trade as a secondary 'hidden' side. The slavery was known but basically one averted one's eyes to it. Also, perhaps there's different kinds of slaves - labourers being the type who were put to, well, hard labour like mining, building and farming. That might also account for the use of the word (god forbid they mention pleasure slaves in a SNES game, though. If it were mentioned I'll bet it wasn't in the Western releases.)
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Feb 24, 2015 02:33
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I can't recall whether, as a kid, I realized they were talking slavery or not. Which probably means I didn't realize it. I was pretty dumb 
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Feb 24, 2015 02:58
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I knew when I first played this game I wasn't familiar with Slavery as a concept so I didn't get it. Playing back through it afterwards though it somewhat toes the line between NoA censorship and covering up shady stuff with benign words.
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Feb 24, 2015 03:07
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Oh man, this game. I remember getting so frustrated with finding one of the red jewels in this town that I finally gave up on getting all 50.
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Feb 24, 2015 03:39
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silversatyr posted:<slavery stuff> Yep, pretty much. Soon-to-late-game spoilers regarding this plot thread. We'll eventually see a mine where they're quite visibly being worked to death in, complete with a pit full of bones, a village they're being taken from, several towns that are rich thanks to the trade, in one of which is a sweatshop that yet more of them are working in. And I might be forgetting more. Anyway, if by that point in your childhood you were familiar with the concept of slavery at all, there was no ambiguity regarding what was happening. Mazed fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 04:05
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When that was me playing for the first time, I just thought it was some fancy old fashioned term for it.
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Feb 24, 2015 06:02
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GunnerJ posted:Thinking back, I don't recall being offended by it, per se. It was more that I just assumed that everyone in the game's world used polite terms for it, which made it seem even more hosed up. I am still not sure now whether this really was a half-assed Nintendo of America whitewash or a translation issue, or maybe I was right and the intent was that everyone really does call it that. NoA was very strict about censoring or scrubbing content that might be considered offensive when games came over to the US - even if it's something that only the most radical of whatever group might get offended at it. Like depictions of crosses in games.
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Feb 24, 2015 14:46
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Sloober posted:NoA was very strict about censoring or scrubbing content that might be considered offensive when games came over to the US - even if it's something that only the most radical of whatever group might get offended at it. Like depictions of crosses in games. Wasn't there an incident where some misguided censor, fearing the wrath of the Anti-Defamation League, changed all the cross tombstones in a cemetery to Stars of David, giving the impression of the game taking place on a Holocaust victim graveyard?
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Feb 24, 2015 16:35
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If Square-Enix ever decided to get around to remaking the Soul Blazer-Illusion of Gaia-Terranigma trilogy, what would you like to see outside of, say, a competent translation?
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Feb 25, 2015 20:47
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HR12345 posted:If Square-Enix ever decided to get around to remaking the Soul Blazer-Illusion of Gaia-Terranigma trilogy, what would you like to see outside of, say, a competent translation? Someone else making it.
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Feb 25, 2015 20:58
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HR12345 posted:If Square-Enix ever decided to get around to remaking the Soul Blazer-Illusion of Gaia-Terranigma trilogy, what would you like to see outside of, say, a competent translation? Honestly I'm not sure how well a remake of Illusion of Gaia or Terranigma could work. The games are heavily limited in what they can depict (not just due to wonky translations, but simply due to trying to achieve a grand scope on a 16-bit system), which leaves a lot of room open for players to provide their own interpretations. A remake would inevitably end up concretizing the games more, resulting in one "real" interpretation. Soul Blazer and ActRaiser are comparatively straightforward, though. I'm honestly kind of surprised that ActRaiser hasn't seen a remake or homage or anything like that.
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Feb 25, 2015 21:00
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HR12345 posted:If Square-Enix ever decided to get around to remaking the Soul Blazer-Illusion of Gaia-Terranigma trilogy, what would you like to see outside of, say, a competent translation? There already exist spiritual sequels/remakes of Soul Blazer. It is the Dark Cloud series. 
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Feb 25, 2015 21:24
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Synastren posted:There already exist spiritual sequels/remakes of Soul Blazer. It is the Dark Cloud series. There could be arguments made that the first Dark Cloud is a pretty solid successor for Soul Blazer, and Dark Chronicle/Dark Cloud 2 sort of feels like Terranigma if you squint? But there's still nothing quite like this game.
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Feb 26, 2015 01:30
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HR12345 posted:If Square-Enix ever decided to get around to remaking the Soul Blazer-Illusion of Gaia-Terranigma trilogy, what would you like to see outside of, say, a competent translation? Just make Illusion of Gaia the plot of an Uncharted game. What, you didn't know about Sully's magical flying dandelion shapeshifting powers? He's always had 'em.
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Feb 26, 2015 11:24
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Mazed posted:Just make Illusion of Gaia the plot of an Uncharted game. Now I wanna see fanart of Will going on adventures with Sully and Drake.
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Feb 26, 2015 12:37
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Update the Eleventh: In Which Will Explores on his Own Freejia City Theme   “Not ye… wait, we’re not!” “No. Not yet. We’re looking for someone.” “Well, well. Why not base your search here?” “It’s settled! I’m exhausted!!” “That’s great, you just follow the strange guy who was trolling for hotel guests at the gate. I’m going to explore the town.” “Yeah, except when the wind is blowing from the north. What IS that?” “Eh, you get used to it.” “Like strangers just wandering into their houses? Sorry about that, by the way.” “I was afraid you’d been kidnapped by someone, or had been wounded….my mother suffered like that.” “Okay, I’m confused. Did your mother get kidnapped and wounded or did that happen to you while your mother was waiting at home?” “Care to run that by me again?” “Just… don’t, okay? It’s not safe.” Jeweler Gem makes another appearance here in town, granting us an HP boost since we have over 8 gems. We should actually be able to get another boost here soon.  “If you want I can give you my honest appraisal of it. I’ve been through a LOT of people’s houses.”Upstairs, beneath the text box…   “You know, that excuse would be a lot more believable…” “If you weren’t making out in front of a window. Now I’m wondering if that’s his wife, daughter, or just some complete stranger up there with another guy.” “Will, where have you been?” “Exploring, obviously. Glad to see you found the hotel and this guy wasn’t as creepy as I thought. Evidently there’s a whole back side to town.” “Ugh, sounds terrible. I’ll just wait here then.” You know you’re in the bad side of town when there’s laundry hanging on lines between the buildings. Obviously.   And also when there’s random healing and HP boosting items scattered around in the garbage while sinister robed figures scowl at each other.  “Escaped? Most people refer to that as quitting.” “Hmm. Tell me if you see him.” “Pushy, much? Sure, sure, I’ll tell you. “Okay, this side of town is just full of jerks.” “Uh, hello? I’m practically an adult.” “Practically means you’re still a kid. No dice.” “We’ll see about that…” “If there were spirits, things like status wouldn’t matter…” “Wish I could help, but there are spirits and they’re actually kind of jerks.” “That explains a lot.” “A door and an open window. How did you think this would slow me down?”As a note, talking to the guy results in him immediately booting us out the other side. Instead, we’ll explore our new area.  “I’ve heard something about this…” “I don’t know who made the prediction, but it’s all a lie! I do this to forget.” “So, crazy bum. Check.” From here we can jump down on some of the rooftops of the south side of town. As a result, we can reach an otherwise hidden area.  “He’s the laborer who ran away yesterday.” “Oh really? Hmm…” “So what you do is, jump down over there and…” “How very interesting. We’ll be sure to… deal with this.” “Not going to lie, kind of feeling like a jerk about this.”  “AHAHHGHGHGH!” “Sorry, probably should have told you to take a step back.” “Are those… are those chains?”  “When you say laborer, do you mean sla…” “Please sir, not the S-Word. It upsets people for some reason. These are laborers, who will perform whatever labor you tell them to. Thus, laborers.” “That doesn’t sound exactly like you volunteered.” “So you actually get paid for this?” “Not… exactly.” “But we were caught by the labor traders…” “Wait, Erik? It can’t be…” “He’s being held in a house on the corner of a back street in town. Please save him.” “Even if it’s not the Erik I know, it still seems like a pretty terrible situation. No problem! But before that…” “Lilly?” “Will?” “Ugh.”Next update: A rescue!
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Feb 28, 2015 05:53
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Wow, I had forgotten that Will can sell out an escaped slave for a red jewel. That's pretty hosed up.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:04
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I dont know posted:Wow, I had forgotten that Will can sell out an escaped slave for a red jewel. That's pretty hosed up. Was just about to say that. Now the whole  laborer translation thing really DOES leave a bad taste in my mouth
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Feb 28, 2015 06:05
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IIRC you have to do it too for that Red Jewel. Also a note: The Fire Breather guy sets his own hair on fire and runs off. He reappears every time you reload the area so you can perpetually set his hair on fire. And they sorta expected you to talk to him from the front.
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Feb 28, 2015 06:14
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I dont know posted:Wow, I had forgotten that Will can sell out an escaped slave for a red jewel. That's pretty hosed up. It's actually worse than that. You can't even lie to them and get the red jewel anyway. If you want to get all 50 jewels, you pretty much have to sell this poor schmuck out. If I weren't planning to show off everything I'd be tempted to let him go, but for the sake of completion...
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Feb 28, 2015 06:14
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This Red Jewel is a bigger dick move than the RNG one from South Cape. Jem the Jeweler is a goddamn troll.
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Feb 28, 2015 12:11
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If I'm remembering right, (pretty big spoilers maybe?) this can be sorta "justified" or maybe just rationalized by the relationship the jeweler has with the
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Feb 28, 2015 15:45
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Yeah, not going to touch the spoilers but it's 100% safe to say that the hoops Jeweler Gem expects you to jump through make him a pretty big dick. Then again, this game's pretty good at making you feel like a pretty big dick on its own. "Oh hey, your friends followed you into this dangerous ancient ruin since you snuck off with a princess instead of telling them! Too bad, your buddy just got eaten by Leviathan!"
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Feb 28, 2015 20:32
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Whoa, I didn't realize the whole laborer/slave thing back when I played this... ...because the first thing that came to my mind was gulag prisoners
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Feb 28, 2015 20:41
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It's a minor complaint compared to freaking 'Riverson' but it's spelled 'freesia,' game. If it were just the town I'd let it go but then they actually refer to the flower so... yeah.
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Feb 28, 2015 20:56
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Mazed posted:This Red Jewel is a bigger dick move than the RNG one from South Cape. Jem the Jeweler is a goddamn troll. But...but he needs 50 to share his super-secret secret with us! Otherwise he won't be our best friend!
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Feb 28, 2015 22:56
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Clearly if WIll had gotten him more jewels, his mastery of the Seven Seas would have gotten Will off of that raft.
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Feb 28, 2015 23:04
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Rangpur posted:It's a minor complaint compared to freaking 'Riverson' but it's spelled 'freesia,' game. If it were just the town I'd let it go but then they actually refer to the flower so... yeah. I always thought it sort of a play on that because of the 'free' part. It's a town where labor trade happens yet it's called 'free-something' oh that witty non-existing mayor. Also I was dumb about flowers when I first played this game. Translation 
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Feb 28, 2015 23:28
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Rangpur posted:It's a minor complaint compared to freaking 'Riverson' but it's spelled 'freesia,' game. If it were just the town I'd let it go but then they actually refer to the flower so... yeah. No, it's spelled Frisia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisia
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Mar 1, 2015 17:07
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Update the Twelfth: In which Will Huffs and Puffs and Blows a Door Down A short update today, so that we can cover all of the upcoming dungeon in the next update.  “Yeah, we spent about three weeks of it on a raft. Seems like you got a faster trip.” “I’ve been working and living in this hotel. Lance is in the room on the right. You might want to see him…” Before we deal with that, there’s a Red Jewel upstairs that we can grab out of a random pot. If you’re an experienced gamer, your natural inclination is to search every nook, cranny, and potential hiding place.   “If I don’t know who I am, how did I get here?” “With a LOT of help, obviously.” “Amnesia? I’m glad everyone is safe, but…” “Yeah, he got snatched up after he tried to help some ‘laborers’ escape.” “WHAT!?!” “No worries, I’ve got this. Just stay here and give me a minute.” Approaching the area where Erik has to be confined we can see a robed figure peering out through the window. Not creepy at all.  Nearby there’s a save point, which seems like a good idea but isn’t really necessary. We’re not exactly in danger now, but if I was playing on an actual system rather than an emulator I’d certainly welcome the chance to save.  As a note, this is what happens when you talk to the guy blocking you from the  An area which you can only reach by jumping south over the fence into the grassy area. There’s no indication that you can do this, and if I’m right then this is about the only place where’s required.   Working our way around brings us to this area, where a robed man gives us yet another Red Jewel. That’s all of the gems in this area, and that means…  We can turn them in for a boost in Attack Power.  We’ve got 14 gems at this point. At this point the next prizes from Gem are more abstract and thus a bit less immediately useful. If you were on a second play through and didn’t want his secrets it’d be perfectly reasonable to skip a couple of the more objectionable gems and just get the lesser prizes. With that, it’s time to move on!  “Yeah, is there a guy named Erik there? About so high, kind of annoying?” “I’ve never heard of such a name. Why do you ask?”  “Listen, you might want to get away from the door. Because one way or another, I’m coming in.”Two seconds later…   “I didn’t think you could break down the door!” “I did that with my flute. If I really want to, I can crash through a wall. Hey, where’d the guy I was talking to go?” “I tried to sneak into the camp to rescue three laborer brothers.” “So how’d that work out for you?” “I’ll tell you where. Please save them!” “I’ll get to it. Meantime, let’s go back to the inn with everybody else.” “My tears have all been cried…” “…so, Lilly, how are things?” “Sounds great. I’d love to hang around, but I have to go rescue some slaves.”  If you look on the map leaving Freejia (whatever spelling you choose to use) you can see one of our future destinations to the north. Instead, we’re going to be heading to the Diamond Mine that’s been mentioned before.  “Is that… is that a lizard man? What kind of mine is this?”  “…that’s not making me feel any better.”Next update: Three was lowballing it.
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Mar 2, 2015 04:53
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I don't recall hearing about the Lizardmen run diamond mines in my history classes. Maybe I should have paid more attention. Or brought this game to my teacher's attention.
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Mar 2, 2015 05:45
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MartianAgitator posted:No, it's spelled Frisia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisia EDIT: Oh poo poo, an update. I didn't notice until the LP, but man, nobody gives a poo poo about Seth, do they? I mean, Kara's just naturally self-absorbed, Lily only knew him for like two hours, and Lance has amnesia, but you'd think at least Erik would bring it up one of their old friends getting eaten by a horrible sea monster. Rangpur fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 05:59
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I get the feeling they wanted to imply that and other things when Erik's strange line about crying came up.
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Mar 2, 2015 06:13
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The only hint that you can jump over the fence into that grass is that there's a 'path' indicated by a lack of flowers.Rangpur posted:Huh. Did they also have a thriving First of all, that person you quoted was trolling. The game makes it perfectly clear that this Freejia or whatever is named after the flower, not after the region. But I can answer your question. A large part of Frisia sits in the country of The Netherlands (it continues a ways into Germany.) In the 17th century, the Netherlands had what the Dutch call a 'Golden Age'. This was mostly due to the profitable trade of exotic spices and coffee from both the East Indies (Indonesia) and the West Indies (Caribbean). The Netherlands had a huge fleet. Back then, there was certainly slavery going on. As I understand it, the actual slave trade was in a large part outsourced to the British, Portuguese, and others, but the Dutch colonialists certainly made use of slaves on the fields in the Indies. Now, the Dutch base of operations for the spice trade was in Amsterdam in the region of Holland, which is distinct from Frisia (some of you might be surprised to learn that Holland is only one sixth of the Netherlands). A relatively small percentage of the population was involved in it. In Frisia, quite far from Amsterdam, people probably cared way more about local stuff. Lots of people were farmers, and some worked in trades such as metalworking. On top of that, barely any slaves were ever brought to the Netherlands. They stayed in the Indies and it's believed that many Dutch commoners didn't even really know what their fellow countrymen were up to in the Indies. The politicians, including Frisians, certainly did and they let it happen. But if you'd visited to Frisia in the 17th century, I don't believe you'd find any evidence of slave trade.
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Mar 2, 2015 10:27
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It's more fun to think that they really did mean "Frisia", since that implies we're in northern-ish Europe, next to an African diamond mine, and that's not even the half of it.
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Mar 2, 2015 11:52
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The game uses real place names so there's no reason not to believe they meant the real place.
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Mar 2, 2015 12:51
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