Is there a thread for Pathfinder Online?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > Is there a thread for Pathfinder Online?

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RelentlessImp: Mar 15, 2011

Jackard posted:

No because that would be good. Shame we haven't ever gotten a proper 4E video game

We'll have to agree to disagree on the subject of 4E being good. I think it would make a good video game, though.

# ? Jun 19, 2015 15:09

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:16

Siddhartha Glutamate: Oct 3, 2005; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Kortel posted:

This reminds me of Asheron's Call in a bad way.

This is exactly what I thought... And then that made me want to play it, or Asheron's Call, because some of the best times I ever had in that game (or any MMO) were when I was running around with a group from Fort Tethana and it all turning into a giant cluster gently caress as we kept pulling mobs and getting lost.

Running around in circles, good times, good times.

# ? Jun 19, 2015 16:02

Jackard: Oct 28, 2007; We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

RelentlessImp posted:

We'll have to agree to disagree on the subject of 4E being good.

I wasn't expecting otherwise in a thread for a garbage system like Pathfinder!

# ? Jun 19, 2015 16:08

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

Anoia posted:

Jesus loving Christ I've never seen a game with such a hate boner for its own players like this before.

People are paying tons of money to get early access to this?

I got an email from Goblinworks a couple of days ago. Trial access is now just download the client and hop in but they expect you to pay for a sub - $11.95 a month for a year was the best ratio going. I didn't bother when the kickstarter sub thing ran out though.

# ? Jun 19, 2015 16:15

Mormon Star Wars: Aug 13, 2005; It's a minotaur race...

RelentlessImp posted:

Translation: We don't want this to look anything like a Pathfinder game you might expect to sit down and play. We want to make it as irritating as loving possible to get started if you happen to start out later.

Oh my god, how does "The Steve Jobs of MMOs" not know that this was the thing that put Asheron's Call 2 into the ground.

edit: Asheron's Call 1 is $5 now and has no monthly sub fee and has pretty much the same graphical quality.

Mormon Star Wars fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jun 20, 2015

# ? Jun 20, 2015 04:21

Asimo: Sep 23, 2007

RelentlessImp posted:

We'll have to agree to disagree on the subject of 4E being good.

I respect your ability to proudly own up to being wrong. It's part of what makes America great.

Mormon Star Wars posted:

Oh my god, how does "The Steve Jobs of MMOs" not know that this was the thing that put Asheron's Call 2 into the ground.

edit: Asheron's Call 1 is $5 now and has no monthly sub fee and has pretty much the same graphical quality.

The fact the developers are colossal ttRPG grognards unable to understand what makes games actually good seems to have a high correlation with being colossal cRPG grognards too, who would have thought. :v:

# ? Jun 20, 2015 04:56

Mormon Star Wars: Aug 13, 2005; It's a minotaur race...

Asimo posted:

The fact the developers are colossal ttRPG grognards unable to understand what makes games actually good seems to have a high correlation with being colossal cRPG grognards too, who would have thought.

You'd think that there would be some sort of grognard floor, even Everquest 1 had merchants and didn't make players buy their starting gear from other players. This makes Horizons: Empire of Istaria look good.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 05:00

Kerbtree: Sep 8, 2008; BAD FALCON!
LAZY!

Mormon Star Wars posted:

Oh my god, how does "The Steve Jobs of MMOs" not know that this was the thing that put Asheron's Call 2 into the ground.

edit: Asheron's Call 1 is $5 now and has no monthly sub fee and has pretty much the same graphical quality.

If he was the Steve Jobs of MMOs, Monoclegate wouldn't have happened on his watch.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 09:11

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Fresh Dancey:

Ryan Dancey posted:

@AvenaOats - some constructive feedback.

I think you have interesting things to say.

I am not reading them. Your posts are too long and lack pithiness. If you could condense your points to a few sentances you would have a wider audience, at least wider by one.

I am as guilty if this problem as anyone so I recognize a fellow member of the excessive verbosity tribe. A boss I once had told me that if he had to scroll to read my email, he deleted it. Changed my style to accomodate. Reccomend you consider the same.

Ryan Dancey posted:

@AvenaOats - sorry, still can't process that much stuff.

Is your core point "over-the-shoulder 3D worlds are dead"? Because if that's your core point, I just don't know what to tell you. You're wrong.

Are you wondering how big we think the market for a for a fantasy sandbox MMO is?

ArcheAge, which is a beautiful game that sells itself as a sandbox (but has only a very small bit of sandbox gameplay) generated two million signups in the west. It's Free to Play so that's a reasonable sizing function for "how big is the North American and European Market for a sandbox fantasy MMO" (the addressable part of that market for a Pay to Play game will be smaller, of course.)

Are you wondering why we don't have more players yet?

We have not turned on the marketing. We are spending effectively nothing on marketing yet. Awareness that this game exists within that 2 million person audience is close to 0%.

Ryan Dancey posted:

To be clear, we have not said that it is "too hard" and thrown up our hands.

We've said that doing it will require substantial resources we don't currently have. We cannot continue to follow our roadmap, which includes many features and systems that the game requires regardless of the presence of dungeons or no dungeons, and attempt to build a dungeon feature.

When we have those resources available, we'll do dungeons. Of course we want dungeons in the game. And they're not "too hard". They're just expensive.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 09:30

RelentlessImp: Mar 15, 2011

I refuse to believe this Dancey person is for real. Oh wait, no I don't, Paizo did the same thing to posts containing dreaded math and destructive playtesting. I'm guessing the posts were full of constructive criticism and truth, which burns anybody working for Paizo as if they were loving vampires in the sun.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 09:42

Comrade Koba: Jul 2, 2007

RelentlessImp posted:

I refuse to believe this Dancey person is for real. Oh wait, no I don't, Paizo did the same thing to posts containing dreaded math and destructive playtesting.

This sounds fun; care to tell us more?

# ? Jun 20, 2015 09:48

VoidTek: Jul 30, 2002; HAPPYELF WAS RIGHT

I almost forgot I actually tried the 15 day trial, and it is not only as bad as you would expect but manages to surpass those expectations to an amazing degree

Here I am, standing in a....river..?

As Ryan Dancey, CEO of Goblinworks who stands around inside of his terrible game as a static NPC but also was hanging out in the chat channel the whole time I played, explained that half the water is missing due to their "procedural generation" tools making things run too slowly so their designers now had to create the river by hand.

My only notable story about my trial was that while playing I accidentally attacked another player, because the level of detail on the model was so poor, and there was no indication through the UI that they weren't just another bandit until I noticed they weren't doing the normal NPC thing of zooming across the terrain towards me with two frames of animation. Even the other player probably didn't have any idea what was going on, because there is almost zero combat feedback and no way to tell what the gently caress is even hitting you from where. So I felt a little bad and kept going on my way, searching for three quest wolves to kill. Not long after, the player I killed shows up and murders me as well. Fair play to them, no problem, I'll just move on with the tutorial. Or I would, except whoops, you randomly lose items during death. Including your starter tutorial items, which also happen to be required class items. So now I no longer have the piece of equipment I need that actually let's me cast wizard spells, with no way to get a new one from the tutorial dude, and no pity vendors. RIP, my wizard. Maybe I should have checked the AUCTION HOUSE, if I had actually given a gently caress.

But seriously though, do not try this, not even as a joke, not even in a "ha ha, this is going to be so bad, it'll be funny!" way. It's not funny, it's just bad. And I don't care that it's still being made and not even close to completion, because they're already charging a subscription for this garbage. And people are already paying.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 10:43

RelentlessImp: Mar 15, 2011

Comrade Koba posted:

This sounds fun; care to tell us more?

Hm? Oh. I thought it was common knowledge. Paizo's "playtest" of Pathfinder was a straight up lie. They banned people left and right who actually used the system as it was written, who provided posts full of math showing where the developers had screwed up, and suggested changes and alterations to the mechanics - polite, reasoned, thought-out posts - or showcased destructive playtesting. Instead, they listened to the people who spent all night roleplaying and not even using the system, so it looked like nobody had any problems with it. They had a real chance to fix 3.5's problems while retaining backwards compatibility and they chose to shove their fingers in their ears and scream "LA LA LA" as loud as they could rather than listen to the people giving them actual feedback.

So, this is why I won't play Pathfinder, or give any money whatsoever to Paizo. I've even stopped using Dragon and Dungeon material from before Pathfinder was a thing.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 11:04

Comrade Koba: Jul 2, 2007

RelentlessImp posted:

Hm? Oh. I thought it was common knowledge. Paizo's "playtest" of Pathfinder was a straight up lie. They banned people left and right who actually used the system as it was written, who provided posts full of math showing where the developers had screwed up, and suggested changes and alterations to the mechanics - polite, reasoned, thought-out posts - or showcased destructive playtesting. Instead, they listened to the people who spent all night roleplaying and not even using the system, so it looked like nobody had any problems with it. They had a real chance to fix 3.5's problems while retaining backwards compatibility and they chose to shove their fingers in their ears and scream "LA LA LA" as loud as they could rather than listen to the people giving them actual feedback.

That's just...wow. :wtc:

I wasn't aware of that at all. I figured Paizo had a major hard-on for 3.5, but banning playtesters because they point out obvious flaws in the system? :stare:

Serious question: Is there any chance that the inevitable (and hopefully hilarious) failure of Pathfinder Online will affect Paizo financially?

# ? Jun 20, 2015 11:36

Asimo: Sep 23, 2007

Only if we're lucky.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 11:42

RelentlessImp: Mar 15, 2011

Unfortunately, Paizo has a license to print money with Pathfinder, as people would rather play a currently-supported fanwank hack of 3.5 than 4E or 5E. They shovel out shovelware, farm out work to freelancers and freelancers who used to work for them (hi SKR, Monte Cook) and keep their bottom line looking shiny. The fact that they are charging a subscription to alpha test their MMO means they can sucker enough people in to keep paying for continued development, so that even if PFO flops they still stay in the red. If only they weren't staffed by terrible, awful loving people who will die on the hill for the smallest thing that's wrong rather than change it.

Oh, and if you ever want to laugh, go read their FAQ some time. The changes in the FAQ are all hi-loving-larious and not thought out at all... like, say, Proficiencies not being Feats so anything you want to take that requires an Armor Proficiency feat or Weapon Proficiency feat as a Fighter is basically an invalid choice. Forever.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 13:34

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Kerbtree posted:

If he was the Steve Jobs of MMOs, Monoclegate wouldn't have happened on his watch.

He once called himself the Steve Jobs of MMOs.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 16:19

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

RelentlessImp posted:

I refuse to believe this Dancey person is for real.

There's always the time Dancey went and read confidential e-mails of his peers when he worked for GAMA (that's the The Game Manufacturers Association, for those not into the TG scene). He then used this insider information to get help get himself and his cronies elected. When confronted, he claimed that what he did was okay because he had found that all of their e-mail was sitting on a site unprotected. Therefore, he did not "hack" their e-mail and did nothing wrong.

It turned out GAMA's lawyer disagreed.

And then a lot of people gave this guy the opportunity, money, and time to make an MMO, because he clearly can be trusted, right?

Of course, even beyond all that, I'm amazed that people can read things like this-

Ryan Dancey posted:

I think that what perhaps what people are missing is the critical factor of feedback.

Most people need guidelines and clear references to understand how their actions influence the results they obtain. Especially when you are talking about something as abstract as an MMO.

My thesis is that a bright, simple, clear guideline is needed to help people make good choices ("good" defined as "generating results that are generally in-line with my expectations and desires")

A second thesis is that a lot of people will come to Pathfinder Online with two incorrect preconceptions about the way the game is played. Those two preconceptions are:

1: Open World PvP implies a murder simulator

2: Killing early, often, and without discrimination is the route to long-term success

These two preconceptions mutually reinforce each other. If #2 is true, #1 is inevitable. This is the trap that game after game after game fell into. (Sometimes they didn't "fall" into it as much as they embraced it as a design paradigm on purpose.)

We are going to break this pattern and we are going to redefine those preconceptions. In order to do that we must repeatedly and powerfully shock the system. One of those shocks is a negative feedback loop that links random killing to gimping character development.

Another, related problem is community toxicity. Observation tells us that toxicity proceeds from a sense of external fairness and justice not applying inside the game world simulation. 90% of people want to be treated fairly and justly. But the anonymous internet lets a small group of sociopaths act unfairly and unjustly - and those actions, if not harshly countered, leads a larger (but still small) group of people to act out power fantasies and work out issues they can't resolve in real life with aggression. The result is that the majority feels they are subjected to unfair and unjust experiences. And they leave.

We are going to actively attack community toxicity from the grass roots up. As I've said before there is no silver bullet to this problem. The approach we're going to use is a multi-layered approach. One of those layers is giving people an extremely clear message about their in-game behavior. If they act badly as defined by the desires of 90% of the community their bad actions will hurt their in-game power level. I feel reasonably confident I can proxy my opinion for what 90% of the people I intend to sell this game to want. We have lots of time to make minor adjustments and consider corner cases.

So the reason we're making a funnel of suck is to make it possible for our players to clearly see it, clearly understand its consequences, clearly understand how their in-game actions relate to that funnel, and clearly see that they can be and will be affected by it. And we accept up front that as a result there are some people who will be so frustrated by the straightjacket that they cannot be satisfied and happy within that system. And that's OK.

- and still take him seriously.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 22:44

Asimo: Sep 23, 2007

While it's not as blatantly criminal as ARB's thing, it's pretty obvious these days that Dancey basically made the OGL so he could (successfully) steal Dungeons & Dragons from WotC when he left. :toot:

Nobody should be working with that man.

# ? Jun 20, 2015 23:03

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

idgi if you want to make it impossible for players to gank each other, why not just do that?

# ? Jun 21, 2015 12:44

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

~verisimilitude~

# ? Jun 21, 2015 18:10

Freakazoid_: Jul 5, 2013; Buglord

RelentlessImp posted:

Unfortunately, Paizo has a license to print money with Pathfinder, as people would rather play a currently-supported fanwank hack of 3.5 than 4E or 5E. They shovel out shovelware, farm out work to freelancers and freelancers who used to work for them (hi SKR, Monte Cook) and keep their bottom line looking shiny. The fact that they are charging a subscription to alpha test their MMO means they can sucker enough people in to keep paying for continued development, so that even if PFO flops they still stay in the red. If only they weren't staffed by terrible, awful loving people who will die on the hill for the smallest thing that's wrong rather than change it.

Oh, and if you ever want to laugh, go read their FAQ some time. The changes in the FAQ are all hi-loving-larious and not thought out at all... like, say, Proficiencies not being Feats so anything you want to take that requires an Armor Proficiency feat or Weapon Proficiency feat as a Fighter is basically an invalid choice. Forever.

Amazing. I've been out of the pnp loop for some time, but I'm not surprised to see pathfinder still living off the hatred for 4e. Given how 5e returned to its 3e roots somewhat, I would've expected some reconciliation. I guess that's not the case?

# ? Jun 22, 2015 01:10

Asimo: Sep 23, 2007

The whole reason Pathfinder exists is to pander to nerds who didn't want to update or modernize or anything like that, so it's not really a surprise.

# ? Jun 22, 2015 01:16

Comrade Koba: Jul 2, 2007

Freakazoid_ posted:

Amazing. I've been out of the pnp loop for some time, but I'm not surprised to see pathfinder still living off the hatred for 4e.

The greatest thing would be if Dancey or someone went "Well, we know you all felt 4E was like some kind of video game MMO. We agree with you, and that's why we've decided to use the D&D 4E rules set for Pathfinder Online." :smuggo:

# ? Jun 22, 2015 06:39

RelentlessImp: Mar 15, 2011

Freakazoid_ posted:

Amazing. I've been out of the pnp loop for some time, but I'm not surprised to see pathfinder still living off the hatred for 4e. Given how 5e returned to its 3e roots somewhat, I would've expected some reconciliation. I guess that's not the case?

No, not really. 5E is the same sort of low-power fantasy that 4E is only dressing it up in 3E's clothing and pretending that everything still works the way that Basic, AD&D, and 3E did. Bounded accuracy makes sure you never get away from being threatened by 1 CR mooks in large numbers and that the red dragon terrorizing the village can be killed by a group of militia archers, and the classes are all weak save for minionmancers who dominate the game once they can raise skeletal archers. Pathfinder's still riding the coattails of older editions "high levels mean you are a demigod" while giving bullshit low-power crap to Fighters and never giving them nice things while casters dominate even harder than in editions that came before.

# ? Jun 22, 2015 09:44

KittyEmpress: Dec 30, 2012; Jam Buddies

I remember a nerdy RL friend really wanted to run Pathfinder at one point, and I kept refusing because I hate 3e-alikes with a passion due to the overly apparent balance problems. he tried to sell me on Pathfinder by explaining how no, fighters get a bunch of extra things compared to 3.5!

Then I borrowed his book and realized that all the casters also got a bunch of extra things compared to 3.5. And most of those things were better than the things Fighters were given.

Basically Pathfinder is a bad game.

# ? Jun 22, 2015 12:41

Jackard: Oct 28, 2007; We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

This is the MMO that Pathfinder deserves.

# ? Jun 22, 2015 15:55

Orv: May 4, 2011

Just bring back 2.5 without THAC0. :colbert:

E: This is a joke post, before someone goes and writes an essay.

Orv fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 22, 2015

# ? Jun 22, 2015 19:03

super sweet best pal: Nov 18, 2009

Just make a tabletop RPG where martial classes are like 80s and 90s anime heroes at higher levels.

# ? Jun 23, 2015 09:14

Angrymog: Jan 30, 2012; Really Madcats

If anyone is interested in seeing what PFO is like without inflicting the client on yourself, I streamed it for a bit last week

http://www.twitch.tv/angrymog/b/668732180?t=1h41m46s

It is hilariously poo poo and I can't believe that they're expecting people to pay a monthly sub for the game in this state. The current players have the syndrome bad - an actual quote, "There won't be a server wipe and we'll be gods."

# ? Jun 23, 2015 09:18

Gau: Nov 18, 2003; I don't think you understand, Gau.

The original pitch for PFMMO was that Gobbinworks could just buy (second-rate) software and integrate it for much, much cheaper than developing it from scratch. It sounds like a decent idea; I mean, there are dozens of dead MMOs and I'm sure one of them would sell their framework for a song. Then he'd be able to construct a "Tech Demo" that he would present to big companies and they would just JUMP at the idea since Pathfinder is such a hot IP and all, being the most popular tabletop game ever! People gave him $300,000 to get this done. Note: the rewards for this Kickstarter were a completely unrelated Pathfinder project and "being able to watch a video." Hopes were high in May 2012.

Then, in November (that's right, just months later) Dancey comes back with empty hands and asks for more money. It's here that we see the advent of "crowdforging" where they build the world one piece at a time and pay for it with subscriptions. Dancey ranted and raved about "theme park games" and how much more expensive they were and how he'd be able to build a sandbox for a lot less money. It could "expand with the playerbase." He convinced Reaper (yes, that Reaper) to give them a shout-out. One million goddamned dollars later, they were OFF TO MAKE A GAME.

Two years later, he posted this without any irony at all:

quote:

This Is The Game You Have Been Waiting For

For more than a decade gamers have asked for a specific kind of game: A massively multiplayer fantasy roleplaying game where their characters were the most important figures in the world, where they could have a real impact on the world, where they could create kingdoms and wage war and peace - and a community to belong to that would be friendly and helpful and would have a meaningful impact on the design of the game.

During that time dozens of games were made which just didn't match those desires. Those games, which we call Theme Park games, had rich storylines driven by NPCs, and beautiful hand-crafted worlds that players could visit but never change, where the factions of the game were controlled by the developers with little player input.

A little more than two years ago we set out to finally make the game that so many people wanted to play. We knew it would be very hard. Making a game that doesn't look like the games that dominate bestseller lists and have become successful franchises is extremely risky. Massively multiplayer games are the hardest, most expensive, most technically challenging games to make. But we embraced hardship as a virtue - doing a great thing often means doing a very very hard thing.

...

There is a great story about Ernest Shackleton and an ad he placed in London as he prepared for his Antarctic expedition. The apocryphal ad said:

quote:
"Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success."

As the story goes, adventurers lined up en masse in response to this ad, responding to the great opportunity to be a part of a unique and historic undertaking.

In a similar way Early Enrollment will be the story of Pioneers - players who are ready to take on the challenge of making a real, persistent world come to life in the face of great adversity.

$1.4 million gets you, the Pioneers, a half-completed jogging simulator.

# ? Jun 23, 2015 10:02

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

I believe I mentioned it during the million-dollar Kickstarter, but Dancey's original pitches for PFO were the same as the pitch-page for some EverQuest-killer back in 2000. It talked about player-sourced economics, destructible terrain and resource gathering, everyone has to build their own log cabin to keep from dying of the flu, all that dumb hyper"realistic" busywork.

It looks like every time PFO runs into a wall on the Verisimilitude Trail, they quickly abandon their design principles and thumbsily rip off some other game. I guess at least they've gotten farther than that forgotten game that never even came out that I can't remember the name of. This can only prove to be a more entertaining train wreck the further it goes.

# ? Jun 23, 2015 10:18

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

I think you'll find that PFO is actually very good, because it is responsible for the best post I've ever made.

# ? Jun 23, 2015 13:20

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Squizzle posted:

I think you'll find that PFO is actually very good, because it is responsible for the best post I've ever made.

Oh my god I forgot that. That was pretty amazing.

I can't believe it's been three years.

# ? Jun 23, 2015 13:36

Angrymog: Jan 30, 2012; Really Madcats

Judgement posted:

I almost forgot I actually tried the 15 day trial, and it is not only as bad as you would expect but manages to surpass those expectations to an amazing degree

My only notable story about my trial was that while playing I accidentally attacked another player, because the level of detail on the model was so poor, and there was no indication through the UI that they weren't just another bandit until I noticed they weren't doing the normal NPC thing of zooming across the terrain towards me with two frames of animation. Even the other player probably didn't have any idea what was going on, because there is almost zero combat feedback and no way to tell what the gently caress is even hitting you from where. So I felt a little bad and kept going on my way, searching for three quest wolves to kill. Not long after, the player I killed shows up and murders me as well. Fair play to them, no problem, I'll just move on with the tutorial. Or I would, except whoops, you randomly lose items during death. Including your starter tutorial items, which also happen to be required class items. So now I no longer have the piece of equipment I need that actually let's me cast wizard spells, with no way to get a new one from the tutorial dude, and no pity vendors. RIP, my wizard. Maybe I should have checked the AUCTION HOUSE, if I had actually given a gently caress.

That was me on my stream, Judgement. Some loving dwarf was wandering around looting too; I know he got some of my stuff, he might have gotten some of yours.

Also, check your bank or card statement. Goblinworks thinks its kosher to charge people at the start of a free trial, not at the end. (It wasn't letting me in, so I set a payment plan up, since a lot of MMOs want billing info even during the free trial*)

*I probably didn't need to do this, as I promptly discovered I'd been using the wrong username because I'm a muppet.

Angrymog fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jun 23, 2015

# ? Jun 23, 2015 14:43

VoidTek: Jul 30, 2002; HAPPYELF WAS RIGHT

Ahh, Lord Tyrannus Darthtek's epic PvP conquest immortalized forever on Twitch. Ha Ha Ha Ha...

Seeing it from your perspective makes it even funnier, not just because you were stuck on the inventory screen, but because the feedback was exactly as I expected it to be. Just a deafening FFFFFTTT played repeatedly as the only indication of a spell being cast at you, no visual effects, no tracers. The fact it even popped up a nameplate for your attacker was a surprise though.

I guess it's because I didn't want to actually waste my time reading about Pathfinder Online before jumping in, but I didn't even know you could just indiscriminately attack other players, I just kind of assumed there'd at least be some restrictions or at the very least an indication that you were engaging another player. That being the case, I was then surprised that there wasn't more people just running around committing player murder.

# ? Jun 23, 2015 15:26

Angrymog: Jan 30, 2012; Really Madcats

It is so poo poo, isn't it?

Did you have a look at the 'handcrafted waterfall'?

re: Why weren't other players doing it? They've got the syndrome bad, they're actually playing by Dancey's rules becuase they think that they'll get cookies or something if they do.

Can anyone remember if UO gave you a warning that you were going to attack another player?

re: billing thing

It gets better - because I cancelled the billing my account won't be usable beyond the end of the free trial, not the free trial+month I inadvertantly paid for.

I have asked for a refund on the basis that my billing was cancelled, and even according to their own account page I should have at the earliest been charged 5 days before the end of the trial.

Angrymog fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jun 23, 2015

# ? Jun 23, 2015 15:33

itsnice2bnice: Mar 21, 2010

Angrymog posted:

http://www.twitch.tv/angrymog/b/668732180?t=1h41m46s

at the hideous elves who somehow look worse than the 10 year old WoW blood elf models... I don't understand why shoestring budget MMOs like this, Pantheon, Project Gorgon and the Repopulation all try to have a bunch of different races and mobs, even though all of them end up looking abysmal.

Like, maybe focus on getting the player characters to look adequate first? Maybe restrict the amount of races and mobs your game will have to just human characters. That way you can spend the meager amount of time and resources you have as a developer on polishing the characters that players will actually use and just create a bunch of cool gear to differentiate them from each other instead.

IDK anything about game development, but that seems a way better idea than modelling a bunch of poorly animated anorexic elves and a variety of poo poo-golems and generic goblins you'll never see again after you outlevel whatever zone they're in.

# ? Jun 23, 2015 21:06

senrath: Nov 4, 2009; Look Professor, a destruct switch!

In this case it's because the people they're courting would throw a poo poo fit and refuse to give them any money if they didn't have the iconic monsters and races from the Pathfinder RPG.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 05:15

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 00:16

TheAttackSlug: Aug 15, 2008

Plague of Hats posted:

I believe I mentioned it during the million-dollar Kickstarter, but Dancey's original pitches for PFO were the same as the pitch-page for some EverQuest-killer back in 2000. It talked about player-sourced economics, destructible terrain and resource gathering, everyone has to build their own log cabin to keep from dying of the flu, all that dumb hyper"realistic" busywork.

Dawn? Load up your fetus catapult.

Or maybe Horizons in its early stages.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 12:23

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > Is there a thread for Pathfinder Online?

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