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It's been a long time coming but I've finally managed to get this little project rolling, which is something I've wanted to do for a good 10 years or so now, so I hope this thread is interesting, entertaining or educational in some way to someone out there! ANYWAY,  The story of the Hillman Imp is a rather interesting one; Produced by Rootes group in 1963, the Imp was originally intended as a rival to the Mini which was already very popular in the UK. With innovative features such as it's opening rear hatch window, it's suspension set up and it's 875cc engine mounted in the back at a 45 degree tilt, the Imp could easily out-handle the mini due to it's lower center of gravity. However, it's sales never really picked up as the Mini quickly became the 'in' thing to have as well as a few (lot) of teething issues with earlier models damaging it's reputation. Early models (pre 1965) had been fitted with a automatic choke as well as a pneumatic throttle linkage, which in no way could possibly go wrong   The lever actuates a pump, that compresses air which controls a second pump at the Solex carburetor end. Funnily enough, the rubber used in the hoses between the two pumps was prone to perishing and leaking, resulting in the need to pump out the accelerator pedal to maintain speed. There were also issues with maintenance of the fully aluminium alloy engine block, which required skimming of both the block and the head on each head gasket change due to the engine's tenancy to warp when overheated. The Mk2 Imp (post 1965) was fitted with a stronger engine block, traditional choke and throttle cable controls and the suspension height was altered slightly.  My Imp is a 1969 Imp Super, which as far as I can tell from looking though the huge pile of Imp manuals I have acquired is no different from a Mk2, other than possibly a slightly different trim. The car in question has been in the family for around 13 years now, it was given to my father sometime around 2002 after its original owner passed away. It'd been parked in a garage at some point in the 1970's and left there the entire time. Since then it has been re-sprayed from the original classic British 'Vomit gold' to a nice red, a couple new tyres on the rear and had the engine stripped and rebuilt. However, since 2004 it's only been on the road on maybe 3 or 4 occasions, spending the rest of the time under a sheet acting as a shelf in the garage. This year it passed it's MOT inspection again with very little wrong with it, so I decided it was time to clean it and get insured to drive it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpxgSJVpXns (made pretty with a little colour correction) The engine itself runs like a dream after I adjusted the points & condenser a few years back, it is mechanically sound, but there a few patches of rust in the rear arches, the roof seal at the nearside rear and on the leading edge of the bonnet. Also the rear hatch leaks like a sieve.  As it stands, it drives, but is a little floaty and the rear shocks appear to be doing very little. The front tyres are 45 year old crossplys, so it's probably about time to change them. I'm not planning on any SICK MODZ, just restoring and keeping this rare classic going. Any questions regarding the imp (or variants) are welcome, as I have a mountain of handbooks and manuals so I'm sure I could find an answer for any questions you may have. (Next update - who the hell even stocks 155 12" these days?) GoodbyeTurtles fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 01:22
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Do older folk swarm you when you go out, deafening your ears with tales of times past? Also, is it air-cooled? (Very cool)
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Jan 30, 2015 01:30
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Wally Joyner posted:Do older folk swarm you when you go out, deafening your ears with tales of times past? As I work in the garage where the Imp is parked, we get maybe 2 or 3 customers a day comment on it, last Monday we had someone who used to race them have a good sniff around it. The day after 2 people came in saying that they'd buy it there and then. It's water cooled.  You can see the radiator fan on the left with the water pump in front of it running off of the auxiliary belt.
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Jan 30, 2015 01:35
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Sporty looking. How big of a pain in the rear end is it to adjust the valves on that engine? How close to the ground is the sump? What's the cargo area look like?
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Jan 30, 2015 01:36
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Sporty looking. How big of a pain in the rear end is it to adjust the valves on that engine? It takes maybe half an hour to completely remove the engine from the car, so I cant imagine it'd be too difficult - I'll check the book time once I get to work though. The sump has a laden ground clearance of 5 inches. The rear seats fold down to leave a decent amount of space in the back and under the bonnet you have the fuel tank, the spare wheel and a little (tiny) bit of room for cargo. I'll take some better pictures today when I fit the new tyres.
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Jan 30, 2015 08:34
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This is a neat rear end car, subscribed.
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Jan 30, 2015 09:51
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I have a real soft spot for the imp, it's such a perfectly cartoonish looking car. I feel like they'd make a fun little track/hill car, but maybe I'm skewed by how drat good they look with a little set of flares on them Can't wait to see more of the car
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Jan 30, 2015 12:34
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Two new tyres (155 12") to replace the 45 year old crossplys on the front. Swapped the new radials to the back and the former rear radials to the front. Took it for a road test and the steering and handling feels great save for some flat spots on the older radials, but those should round out after a few good runs, so I'll be taking them off to balance them properly in a few weeks time. The old tyres are a bit of a state, loads of tread left but cracked all over. I'll post some pictures when I get home. sadnessboner posted:I have a real soft spot for the imp, it's such a perfectly cartoonish looking car. I feel like they'd make a fun little track/hill car, but maybe I'm skewed by how drat good they look with a little set of flares on them Maybe my next imp...
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Jan 30, 2015 13:53
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I'm surprised that you got it MOT'd with the old crossply tyres on it? - to hear my father in law talk about it, it seems like the MOT is extremely harshly graded? He's a mini guy, I think he should switch to Imps!
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Jan 30, 2015 14:36
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GoodbyeTurtles posted:There were also issues with maintenance of the fully aluminium alloy engine block, which required skimming of both the block and the head on each head gasket change due to the engine's tenancy to warp when overheated. IIRC the problem here was that during development, they were supposed to do a (say) 10,000 mile road test to find all the problems, but they didn't have time to do it properly: so they simply went round and round a test track until they racked up enough miles to tick that box. Which of course meant that the cooling system has a nice easy time of it.
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Jan 30, 2015 17:13
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jhcain posted:I'm surprised that you got it MOT'd with the old crossply tyres on it? - to hear my father in law talk about it, it seems like the MOT is extremely harshly graded? He's a mini guy, I think he should switch to Imps!
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Jan 30, 2015 18:20
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spog posted:IIRC the problem here was that during development, they were supposed to do a (say) 10,000 mile road test to find all the problems, but they didn't have time to do it properly: so they simply went round and round a test track until they racked up enough miles to tick that box. shittheydontputinthemanual.txt Sounds about right really, considering the rush they were in to push the car out. InitialDave posted:You're allowed radial on the rear and crossply on the front, presumably because the failure mode is understeer. Can't have it the other way round, or mix tyre types on one axle. I'm pretty sure this is right, though I seem to remember something about having to have radials on the drive wheels if they are mixed.
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Jan 30, 2015 18:54
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New tyres! Turns out that the old crossplys are pretty badly cracked all throughout the tread. They were also only contacting the road was the bit of tread right in the center, so that explains the handling issues!  Took it for a road test straight after fitting these and the handling is absolutely prefect, save for the back end knocking around on those shocks. It actually feels grippy for a change! Seat Safety Switch posted:What's the cargo area look like? With the rear seats folded down there is actually a fairly decent amount of space back there. You'll have to excuse the clutter, it's still being used as a shelf part time.    The rubber seals on the back hatch are in dire need of replacement, as they leak terribly to the point where I cant leave it outside in the rain at all without the rear filling with water. "What's under the bonnet?" they ask. "Not much" I reply.  The cap on the left is the brake fluid reservoir (hence the state of the surrounding paint) and the cap on the right is the fuel filler. Some of the rusty bits that I intend to sort out. (not pictured, the rust on the leading edge of the bonnet): The nearside rear roof seam.  The nearside rear wheel arch.  The offside rear wheel arch. Note the crack that has formed (where it has been filled in previously)  BONUS INTERIOR SHOTS:    The driver's seat is currently an XR2 seat, but I do have the original seat, just for now I'd rather have a head-rest whilst still getting used to driving the thing. Another of the engine bay: 
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Jan 30, 2015 19:39
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Holy wheel arch intrusion! How bad is the pedal offset on them?
Cancelbot fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 00:58
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Jesus Christ that car is cool as hell I wish you weren't keeping this car original, so you could strip it, cage it and throw an H2R engine in it  But really, it's cool that you're keeping it original
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Jan 31, 2015 02:48
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Cancelbot posted:Holy wheel arch intrusion! How bad is the pedal offset on them? It's not uncomfortable to drive and the position feels ok, but I've only driven it for short periods so I'll pay attention to the position & get better photos next time. It seems like there is enough room but with large boots it can be a little awkward trying to heel-toe the throttle and brake pedals due to the lack of space between that wheel arch and the steering column.
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Jan 31, 2015 02:51
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DrakeriderCa posted:Jesus Christ that car is cool as hell Don't get me wrong, I'd love to go all out crazy with it, but the value of this particular car lies in how original it is. I'm only the third registered keeper, the one before me being my father and the one before that only using it for a couple years in the 70's before storing it. The engine and chassis numbers all match and it's supposedly never overheated. Knocking on wood pretty hard right now. Next time I'll grab something with a lot less value and make it some kind of track day monster, as I do have a sports camshaft + top end and some other performance bits laying around.
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Jan 31, 2015 02:59
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Theres a guy here in Ballard who always has 3 of these parked out front, talked to him one day and he owns 17 OF THEM 
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Jan 31, 2015 05:34
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OFFICER 13 INCH posted:Theres a guy here in Ballard who always has 3 of these parked out front, talked to him one day and he owns 17 OF THEM  That's a lot of donor cars! Wait. 3 are parked outside? It rains out there! Surely he hasn't discovered some ritual to prevent the rear hatch from leaking..?
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Jan 31, 2015 12:22
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Imps are the poo poo, yours looks really good. Back when I used to do classic rally events there were a couple that competed and sounded great.
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Jan 31, 2015 14:27
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I literally had a dream about these cars last night (or at least, one was in the dream), but I guess mine was a mkI because I had to deal with the loving air-throttle  Neat car, looking forward to more updates!
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Jan 31, 2015 16:18
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stump posted:Imps are the poo poo, yours looks really good. Back when I used to do classic rally events there were a couple that competed and sounded great. That sports exhaust though. 
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Jan 31, 2015 16:22
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GoodbyeTurtles posted:That sports exhaust though. That looks so similar to a motorcycle exhaust I have to assume thats what it is.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:25
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8ender posted:That looks so similar to a motorcycle exhaust I have to assume thats what it is. You're probably right.  But goddamn does it look cool. Also the sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFtdK7R0fHo
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Jan 31, 2015 18:13
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Cool car and a great project - I fully understand the "should I?/shouldn't I?" about whether or not to go down the modifying route but, as you say, the significance of this one is its originality and the hotted-up Imp has been done to death. It will be interesting to watch someone simply restoring one to stock(ish) condition. I'm a card-carrying (and car-owning) Mini fan but Imps (and all the badge-engineered versions) are such a riot to drive and they are, as a design, SO MUCH BETTER than a Mini of the same age - as well as about 1/10th the cost to buy these days because they carry absolutely no general fashion cred at all. Early Minis are a work of genius but they're crude, noisy and harsh to be in, they leak like sieves and the engine isn't a patch on the Imp's OHC all-alloy motor. Imps feel like 'proper' cars to drive - they're refined, quiet, comfortable while being the Mini's equal when it comes to handling and roadholding. Both cars were riddled with teething problems and, all things being equal, the Imp should have been the more successful - but it arrived to late and would always be blighted by its ridiculous production line that included three 300-mile train journies. On the occasions I've been out in an Imp I'm always amazed by the reaction they get. I took a Mk2 Super in 'puke yellow' out near Melton Mowbray and virtually had to force my way through the crowd that surrounded it - it seemed that everyone in Leicestershire learnt to drive in an Imp. Interestingly they all also reminicised about how often it broke down...and that one later returned to form by conking out with vapour lock in the middle of a busy crossroads. Imp-tastic!
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Jan 31, 2015 23:57
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BalloonFish posted:Cool car and a great project - I fully understand the "should I?/shouldn't I?" about whether or not to go down the modifying route but, as you say, the significance of this one is its originality and the hotted-up Imp has been done to death. It will be interesting to watch someone simply restoring one to stock(ish) condition. For me personally, I've always loved both the Imp and the Mini, though the Imp was mostly due to my father owning a few over the years (in my lifetime only my current one and the one before, which he refers to as 'Frankenstein' due to it's constant state of being covered in primer patches). Early Minis are a lot of fun to drive, but as you said they are pretty rough around the edges. I've always been a fan, but with the prices these days it's very unlikely that I'll pick one up anytime soon. That and how they are probably the most common classic car in the uk these days, I see maybe 5 every day while I'm at work /commuting (one is a pretty smart looking clubman van). I do know a guy who has one in a garage that was going to let me take a look at getting it running, but lets not get ahead of ourselves... So far I've only been out in the imp a few times, just test driving it around work and getting petrol, but I was totally surprised by how accommodating other people on the road were. People actually let me out and wave to me and are actually happy to be stuck behind me with my 875 screaming its way up to 30mph. Totally different to driving my generic white econobox clio around. Everyone just loves the drat imp and everyone has a dozen stories about them and how great (yet unreliable) they were, its really interesting and funny.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:28
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GoodbyeTurtles posted:Everyone just loves the drat imp and everyone has a dozen stories about them and how great (yet unreliable) they were, its really interesting and funny. Having spent five hours today scalping my knuckles changing my Mini's water pump I'm now kinda wishing I had an Imp - it looks like a blissfully simple job on one of those!
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Feb 1, 2015 19:22
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BalloonFish posted:Having spent five hours today scalping my knuckles changing my Mini's water pump I'm now kinda wishing I had an Imp - it looks like a blissfully simple job on one of those! I have a theory that it was incredible foresight by the designers that lead to it being so easily accessible..
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Feb 1, 2015 21:03
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So how cheap are we talking and where should I be looking for these bargain mid engined kettles?
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Feb 1, 2015 21:59
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Cakefool posted:So how cheap are we talking and where should I be looking for these bargain well, there's the imp owner's club (https://www.theimpclub.co.uk) they usually have one or two for sale. Also they pop up on ebay every once in a while, but other than that just break into old people's garages? I'm not sure though, as I didn't really have to look very far for mine.  I have seen a few on sale on the owners club forum that are over in the US, but I'm not sure what they'd cost over there. As far as prices go, depending on condition it could cost from around £1000 for something that might run all the way up to £10,000 for a kitted out rally car. A good condition (and very original) one will usually fetch around £3000- 3500. As mine stands now, it's easily worth about £2000 or £2500 at a push.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:18
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Cancelbot posted:Holy wheel arch intrusion! How bad is the pedal offset on them? I looked a little closer today and took a couple photos. Note the angle of the steering wheel.  Yeah... you do sit at a little bit of an odd angle and there's not a lot of room for boots on those tiny pedals. 
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Feb 3, 2015 00:14
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GoodbyeTurtles posted:I have a theory that it was incredible foresight by the designers that lead to it being so easily accessible.. So replacing the water pump is easy, but putting cargo in it or operating the pedals is difficult. I think I might have worked out what happened to the British Empire. 
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Feb 3, 2015 00:43
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What an awesome little car! Looks like the engine is longitudinal, how does the transmission look? I trawled craigslist for one and there's one for sale in Florida for $5k! It would be an awesome car with some suspension work and maybe a little baby turbo 
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Feb 3, 2015 08:56
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mafoose posted:What an awesome little car! Looks like the engine is longitudinal, how does the transmission look? It's a transaxle on an Imp - with final drive actually sandwiched between the engine and the gearbox The input shaft passes along the side of the diff crownwheel, while the two shafts in the gearbox itself drops the drive down and sends it back to the diff. The engine itself is interesting as it's developed from the FW (Feather Weight) Series of engines made by Coventry Climax for powering portable fire pumps, hence why it's so light yet powerful. It was then developed into a respected racing engine and was used in several early Lotus models. Rootes licensed the design and adapted it for the Imp - with mixed results, but that's why they take to heavy tuning so well.
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Feb 3, 2015 12:03
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GoodbyeTurtles posted:I looked a little closer today and took a couple photos. Your spine may have some issues in later life, I would still buy one however Also nice (Scarpa?) boots, I have some that look very similar and they make it hard to drive some modern cars. Cancelbot fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 14:00
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Cancelbot posted:Your spine may have some issues in later life, I would still buy one however I'm a mechanic so my spine is already condemned, might as well suffer in style.  The boots were on offer for £15 at Lidl, but they have served me well so far so I cant really complain. Anyway, I took it for it's first >2 mile run today. It drives very nicely, it'll take a little bit of getting used to the 'POWER' and the fact that the gear-stick doesn't return to central when you drop into neutral. It's got synchromesh on every forward gear, so changing gears isn't too different from normal, however it is a 46 year old gearbox, so everything must be done slowly, especially when downshifting. I've practically mastered the choke, but not quite heel-toeing the brake & throttle for driving when the engine is still cold. Had our local bodywork guy come have a look at the rust patches & he said that he'd be able to cut out the old and fit replacement rear arches (which are available), as well as respray the whole thing red again. In an attempt to stop (or at least reduce) the leaking rear hatch I've been told to generously apply Vaseline the rubbers  .The signature British 'Active rust prevention system' is working perfectly too! Video coming soon.
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Feb 3, 2015 20:41
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mafoose posted:What an awesome little car! Looks like the engine is longitudinal, how does the transmission look? Beaten by Baloonfish but here's a lovely picture:  Bonus: baby turbo? nah 
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Feb 3, 2015 20:49
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Oh, I may be getting my UK goons mixed up, but do you still have that old 8v 1.2 Clio?
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Feb 3, 2015 23:22
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InitialDave posted:Oh, I may be getting my UK goons mixed up, but do you still have that old 8v 1.2 Clio? It's still my DD 
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Feb 4, 2015 00:20
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For a split second i thought you had a Clio pickup
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Feb 4, 2015 13:35
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