Prince Andrew, Alan Dershowitz alleged to have had sex with minor

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Red and Black: Sep 5, 2011

Edit: To clarify, charges are not being pressed against Dershowitz or Andrew at this time. The alleged victim is challenging a non-prosecution clause for collaborators in a settlement US prosecutors made with Jeffrey Epstein (an acquaintance of both Dershowitz and Andrew) some time ago. The clause is being called a violation of the victim's civil rights. Read the NY Times article for an overview of the situation.

Prince Andrew and Alan Dershowitz Are Mentioned in Suit Alleging Sex With Minor

NY Times posted:

A court filing in a civil case in Florida last week included new allegations against Jeffrey E. Epstein, a businessman who pleaded guilty to soliciting prostitution, and two other high-profile men: a member of the British Royal family and an American lawyer.

The motion filed in United States District Court in the Southern District of Florida alleges that Mr. Epstein forced a teenage girl to have sexual relations with several men, including Prince Andrew, Queen Elizabeth�s second son, and Alan M. Dershowitz, a professor emeritus at Harvard Law School. Both men have denied the allegations.

The motion claimed that the woman, who was not identified in court documents, had sexual relations as a minor with Prince Andrew in London, New York and on Mr. Epstein�s private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands. Mr. Epstein told the woman to give the prince �whatever he demanded� and �report back to him on the details,� the motion said.

Buckingham Palace took the unusual step of issuing a statement to rebut the accusations.

�This relates to longstanding and ongoing civil proceedings in the United States, to which The Duke of York is not a party,� a palace spokesman said in a statement, using the prince�s title. �As such we would not comment on the detail. However, for the avoidance of doubt, any suggestion of impropriety with underage minors is categorically untrue.�

The motion was filed as part of a civil case involving Mr. Epstein, who was sentenced to 18 months in prison in 2008. The lawyers for two alleged victims have argued that the rights of the women were violated during the negotiation of Mr. Epstein�s plea deal. The motion requests to add two more alleged victims to the case, including the woman, identified as �Jane Doe No. 3,� who said she had sexual relations with Prince Andrew and Mr. Dershowitz when she was underage.

On Saturday, Mr. Dershowitz said he �categorically and unequivocally� denied all of the allegations. He said he would file disbarment proceedings against the lawyers who filed the motion, Bradley J. Edwards, a lawyer in Florida, and Paul G. Cassell, a former federal judge and a law professor at the University of Utah.

�They are lying deliberately, and I will not stop until they�re disbarred,� Mr. Dershowitz said in a phone interview.

Mr. Dershowitz, who served on Mr. Epstein�s legal team and is perhaps best known for representing O. J. Simpson, said he would also file an affidavit denying the claims.

Mr. Cassell said in a statement on Saturday that the lawyers carefully investigated all of the allegations in their pleadings before presenting them. He said the lawyers would consider any sworn testimony or documentary evidence provided by Mr. Dershowitz.

Mr. Cassell included a statement from �Jane Doe No. 3,� saying that she was an innocent victim and was now �being unjustly victimized again.� �I�m not going to be bullied back into silence,� she said in the statement.

In 2011, Prince Andrew resigned as an ambassador for British businesses abroad after a series of embarrassing revelations, including his friendship with Mr. Epstein.

A New York money manager with several billionaire clients, Mr. Epstein, 61, had owned a home in Palm Beach, Fla. His listing on Florida�s sexual offenders website said he now lived in St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands.

Federal prosecutors initially threatened to bring him to trial on several charges, but he later pleaded guilty to lesser state charges. His lawyer, Jack Goldberger, called the new allegations a "total fabrication." "These are old, salacious, leftover allegations that lawyers are attempting to reheat by adding names of world leaders," he said in a statement.

The new court documents claim that Mr. Epstein sexually abused the woman identified as �Jane Doe No. 3� starting when she was 15 years old and kept her as a �sex slave� from about 1999 to 2002. He made her available to other men, the motion said, to ingratiate himself with them and to obtain potential blackmail information.

Those who follow the Israel/Palestine conflict may be familiar with Dershowitz as a virulent defender of Israeli military action. But besides his involvement with Israel's public relations, he's also a highly influential American lawyer. The current case relates to Jeffrey Epstein, a billionaire who trafficked underage girls to powerful and influential people. When he was finally caught, Dershowitz was part of Epsteins legal team and helped he negotiate a sweet deal. He'd only spend a year in prison for his sex trafficking and under fairly lax conditions. But there was another aspect of the plea deal which has recently been catching the public eye, which is a provision that bars federal prosecution of any of Epstein's collaborators, which now looks to include Dershowitz himself. Dershowitz, for his part, has completely denied the charges and has a gone on a rather nasty smear campaign against his accuser:

Local 10 News posted:

"This is a woman who is a serial liar," Dershowitz told Local 10 News reporter Bob Norman. "She's lied, lied, lied, lied."

quote:

Dershowitz said Roberts was a prostitute and questioned whether she is now, at the age of 31, a fit mother for her three children.

"She's now an admitted prostitute," said Dershowitz. "I can tell you she is still a prostitute: she is selling these false stories now for money about me. That is a form of prostitution."

"Do you have any concern calling her a prostitute when she was victimized at such an early age by a wealthy man?" Norman asked.

"She was not victimized ... she made her own decisions in life," said Dershowitz.

Those who are only familiar with Dershowitz as a defender of Israel may be surprised at this behavior, but as Electronic Intifada notes, this is just one in many incidents of Dershowitz harassing victims of sexual assault:

quote:

There are two groups of people Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz has spent his career resolutely defending. The first is Israeli war criminals. And the second is accused and convicted rapists.

As rape allegations against Dershowitz intensify, his increasingly bellicose denials, steeped in brazen hostility towards child victims of sexual abuse, are raising eyebrows.

With smear tactics that closely resemble the manner in which he attacks Palestinian victims of Israeli violence, Dershowitz rejected the latest allegations as fabrications, telling Local 10 News that his accuser, Virginia Roberts, is a �serial liar� and �prostitute.�

At the age of fifteen Roberts was groomed into sexual slavery by Dershowitz�s close friend and client, billionaire hedge fund financier and convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. Just one of dozens of underage girls Epstein procured, Roberts was lent out to Epstein�s powerful associates for sexual exploitation and blackmail.

She recently named two of those associates as Alan Dershowitz and Britain�s Prince Andrew in an ongoing lawsuit against the federal government for its scandalous handling of the case.

In a sworn affidavit filed in a Florida court on 21 January, Jane Doe #3, who has identified herself in media reports as Virginia Roberts, provided new details about Dershowitz�s alleged role in sexually abusing her when she was a minor.

�Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz was around Epstein frequently,� declares Roberts in the filing. �Dershowitz was so comfortable with the sex that was going on that he would even come and chat with Epstein while I was giving oral sex to Epstein.� Roberts added that she had sex with Dershowitz �at least six times,� specifying where and when the encounters took place.

When Local 10 News reporter Bob Norman pushed backed against Dershowitz�s characterization of a child molestation victim of Jeffrey Epstein as a �prostitute,� Dershowitz responded, �She was not victimized � she made her own decisions in life.� He also questioned whether the now 31-year-old Roberts is fit to be a mother.

Weeks earlier Dershowitz labeled Roberts a �serial prostitute� whose testimony could not be trusted �against somebody with an unscathed reputation like me.�

While Dershowitz�s hysterical misogyny may seem puzzling, it is hardly out of character.

Pattern of hatred

For decades Dershowitz has positioned himself as a strong advocate for accused and convicted rapists, child molesters and wife killers under the guise of protecting the civil liberties of the accused. However, a deeper examination of his work reveals a pathological pattern of hatred against victims of rape that appears to have been overshadowed by his advocacy for torture and Israel.

In August 1994, Dershowitz shamelessly capitalized on the notorious rape allegations against three Duke University basketball players, which turned out to be fabricated.

�The problem of false rape reports is a serious one,� wrote Dershowitz in The Washington Times, characterizing the rare episode as emblematic of false flag rape reports by spiteful, selfish women coddled by a society that privileges alleged victims of rape to the detriment of innocent men across the country. �The time has come to stop patronizing calculating women who use rape accusations to serve their own selfish interests,� Dershowitz proclaimed.

Dershowitz went on to cite as proof a highly questionable study carried by out by Purdue University sociologist Eugene Kanin, which found that 41 percent of rape allegations were false. Kanin�s finding was based on police records of rape reports over a nine-year period (1978 to 1987) from a police department in an unidentified small midwestern town. Despite the shady methodology, lack of transparency on source material and criticism from several scholars, Kanin�s study has long been invoked by �men�s rights activists� (MRAs) as evidence that women often lie about rape in a system rigged in their favor.

In reality, false rape reports are extremely rare. That�s not to say that false allegations are unimportant or that they should be ignored. But Dershowitz�s proposed solution in his Washington Times column was to criminally prosecute women suspected of filing false rape charges, a practice that has exacted a disastrous toll in the UK.

That same year, Dershowitz published a little known book titled, The Abuse Excuse: And Other Cop-outs, Sob Stories, and Evasions of Responsibility, a collection of short essays warning of a trend in violent criminals, particularly women, blaming their actions on past victimization.

Throughout the book Dershowitz conjures up a cartoonish image of �radical feminists� as a scourge on equality, free speech and the civil liberties of innocent men. He portrays radical feminist leaders as a combination of anti-pornography campaigners Catharine Mackinnon and Andrea Dworkin coupled with Lorena Bobbitt, the woman who notoriously severed her husband�s penis while he was sleeping in 1993.

Naturally, The Abuse Excuse has been embraced by MRAs for its hostility towards women. In a glowing review of that book published at the MRA website A Voice for Men, the author implores his fellow MRAs to �go to your local library and pick up a copy,� adding, �I think it should be required reading for all MRAs.�

Flipping through the book, one can see why.

In a chapter titled, �Wives Also Kill Husbands � Quite Often,� Dershowitz rails against �radical feminists� for concealing the deadly spousal violence wives (especially Black wives) inflict on their husbands across America.

There is no question that men can be and are victims of domestic violence (as well as sexual violence) at the hands of female perpetrators; this problem is, of course, much less common than violence by men against women. But Dershowitz�s tall tale of a feminist conspiracy to disappear male victims doesn�t square with reality.

In a chapter titled �Censorship from the Left,� Dershowitz warns his readers that �Several feminist groups recently persuaded the New York Court of Appeals to create a new crime � marital rape.� He followed up, as he often does after declaring something awful, with the disclaimer, �there is nothing wrong with making it a crime for a husband to rape his wife,� but he insisted that it must be enacted by popular vote through the legislature.

In another chapter, Dershowitz blasts female university students for �intimidating professors into teaching only what their most radical feminist students want to hear.� He warns of an all-powerful campus movement of radical feminists imposing a �new tyranny of censorship� so extreme, �even many tenured professors do not want to incur the wrath of organized feminists on campus.�

Dershowitz later whined that his female students at Harvard were �trivializing real sexual harassment� after some complained that he devoted a disproportionate amount of his rape law lectures to false rape allegations. �They found the atmosphere of my classroom hostile because I spent two days discussing false reports of rape and because I made arguments in favor of disclosing the names of complaining witnesses in rape cases,� he said.

Dershowitz claimed that the angry feminist students even threatened to press �hostile-environment sexual harassment charges.� Even though the supposed charges were never filed, he warned that feminists were infringing on free speech by expanding the definition of sexual harassment.

Defending church cover-up

In 2002 � a time when, according to Jeffrey Epstein�s housekeeper, Dershowitz frequently stayed at Epstein�s Palm Beach mansion where the rape of children was taking place daily and in his presence � Dershowitz took up the cause of child pornography viewers. In his column for the magazine Penthouse, Dershowitz invoked the language of individual rights to argue that watching �kiddie porn� doesn’t make one a bad person and therefore should not be a punishable offense.

In 2005, after three teenage boys were convicted of statutory rape for receiving oral sex from a 15-year-old girl at the Milton Academy, a ritzy Massachusetts boarding school attended by Dershowitz�s daughter, Dershowitz slammed Massachusetts�s statutory rape laws, a fair argument considering the close ages between the boys and the girl (the boys were between the ages of sixteen and seventeen and the sex was consensual). But that wasn�t all. Dershowitz went even further, agitating for the state to �considerably� lower the age of consent, which was sixteen years, The Boston Globe reported at the time.

Dershowitz went on to defend the Catholic Church�s inaction and cover-up of child molestation in 2010. Writing in FrontPage Magazine, a far-right outlet published by slavery apologist David Horowitz, Dershowitz told readers that children sometimes lie about rape. �It�s easy to forget, in the face of real victims with real complaints, that there have also been false accusations as well,� said Dershowitz.

Smearing a whistle-blower to protect a child molester

In the weeks leading up to the 30 December 2014 court filing that named him as a rapist in Jeffrey Epstein�s sex slave scheme, Dershowitz was trying to overturn the guilty verdict of convicted child rapist and award-winning Hollywood director Roman Polanski. It was one of the few times he failed.

Before that, Dershowitz was busy protecting Hasidic Brooklyn cantor and child molester Baruch Lebovits from punishment by defaming the father of one of Lebovits�s victims.

Lebovits was convicted in 2010 on eight of ten counts of child molestation and faced up to 32 years in prison. That conviction was overturned on a technicality after Alan Dershowitz joined his legal team. Dershowitz declared at the time, �our client was a victim of an extortion plot,� a foreshadowing of his response to rape allegations against himself. �I�m an innocent victim of an extortion conspiracy,� Dershowitz has insisted.

In Lebovits� case, the extortion claims advanced by Dershowitz turned out to be a lie. Nevertheless, Lebovits was released back into the community last October after a short sixteen-month stint at Rikers Island on incredibly reduced charges.

Sam Kellner, the father of one of Lebovits� many victims who brought the child sex abuse scandal to the attention of the authorities, was viciously slandered by the Lebovits family. Using fabricated evidence, the Lebovits family accused Kellner of trying to extort hundreds of thousands of dollars from Baruch Lebovits in exchange for recanting his son�s testimony. Kellner was eventually indicted.

Alan Dershowitz played a central role in spreading the smear against Kellner, which was crucial to Lebovits� defense. Though the charges against Kellner were eventually dismissed after it was determined that the accusation was fabricated, Dershowitz has continued to promote the wild falsehood against Kellner, whose reputation and family life were nearly destroyed by the episode.

For Dershowitz, this thuggish manipulation was par for the course.

Smear campaign

During his time as lead attorney on Jeffrey Epstein�s defense team, Dershowitz mobilized a pre-emptive smear campaign against Epstein�s underage victims, mining their pages on the social network MySpace for comments relating to marijuana and alcohol use, which he printed out and compiled into dossiers for the police and state attorney�s office in a salacious attempt to tarnish the credibility of Epstein�s accusers.

Dershowitz hired private investigators to track and dig up dirt on at least one of the underage girls who accused Epstein of rape. The girl, a high school student, reported that one of the private investigators had impersonated a police officer while asking her questions. In a letter from Dershowitz to the Palm Beach police chief, obtained by The Guardian, Dershowitz attached a copy of the girl�s MySpace page, noting �her apparent fascination with marijuana,� and expressed fears �that she, an accomplished drama student, might try to mislead [the private investigators] as successfully as she had misled others.�

In light of his penchant for bullying, harassing, intimidating and smearing rape victims and their advocates with mafia-like precision, it should come as no surprise that Dershowitz has also been a leading voice against rape shield laws, which restrict defendants from using the past sexual behavior of an alleged rape victim to discredit them.

In 2011, Dershowitz was enamored as former head of the International Monetary Fund and accused rapist Dominique Strauss-Kahn successfully impugned the character of his accuser (an immigrant hotel maid) by publicizing inconsistencies in her background that had no connection to whether or not he raped her. Commenting on the Strauss-Kahn case, Dershowitz argued that the press was �dead wrong� not to name alleged rape victims.

�It is absolutely critical� for media outlets to publish names, argued Dershowitz, �so that people who know the victim or know her reputation can come forward to provide relevant information.�

Persecuted by �vindictive feminists�?

Dershowitz does not extend his appeal for transparency to people who pay for sex.

In a column published in The Gainesville Sun in January 1985, Dershowitz held �vindictive feminists� responsible for the arrest of track and field Olympic Gold medalist Edwin Moses in a Los Angeles police sting on Sunset Boulevard that had swept up dozens of people for allegedly soliciting sex workers. Dershowitz reasoned that feminists were so angry over the punishment dished out to sex workers, they were using their omnipotence over the criminal justice system to coerce police departments into punishing male customers.

While portraying middle and upper class men who solicit sex as the true victims of prohibition, Dershowitz disparaged sex workers as practically subhuman criminals. �There really is an enormous difference in impact between the arrest of a professional prostitute and the arrest of an otherwise law-abiding citizen who occasionally seeks to taste the forbidden fruit of sex for hire,� argued Dershowitz.

�For the prostitute, an occasional arrest is an expected occupation hazard. The quick arraignment, bail and fine are regarded as a cost of doing business. She is back on the street hustling her next john within hours. Certainly there is little stigma or embarrassment in being arrested; the street-walker publicly advertises what she�s doing every time she puts on her �uniform� and takes to the sidewalks,� he continued.

�For the john, the public arrest can be a catastrophic event. It can ruin a marriage, destroy a reputation, scar his children, terminate a career.�

Finally, Gawker has obtained the flight logs of Epstein's jet and found evidence of both Dershowitz and... Bill Clinton being on board. Of course that proves nothing, but I figured I'd include it in the OP as well.

Red and Black fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jan 30, 2015

# ? Jan 30, 2015 03:47

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 16:23

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

Even if Dershowitz isn't guilty of this, the guy is just such a shitstain. I saw him on some morning show last week and he was just ranting about what a terrible liar the woman who is making the accusation against him is. What a rotten human being.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 04:18

Caros: May 14, 2008

Ytlaya posted:

Even if Dershowitz isn't guilty of this, the guy is just such a shitstain. I saw him on some morning show last week and he was just ranting about what a terrible liar the woman who is making the accusation against him is. What a rotten human being.

Everytime I hear this guy in the news, or see something he's written in print I can't help but just really, really want to punch him in the face. I mean, I hope he gets all the due process under law but I'd really just want to smack him in the teeth, and that's not normally like me.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 04:23

a whole buncha crows: May 8, 2003; WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)

Caros posted:

Everytime I hear this guy in the news, or see something he's written in print I can't help but just really, really want to punch him in the face. I mean, I hope he gets all the due process under law but I'd really just want to smack him in the teeth, and that's not normally like me.

due process under law is a year for sex trafficking underage girls

# ? Jan 30, 2015 04:28

Ham Equity: Apr 16, 2013; i hosted a great goon meet and all i got was this lousy avatar; Grimey Drawer

Caros posted:

Everytime I hear this guy in the news, or see something he's written in print I can't help but just really, really want to punch him in the face. I mean, I hope he gets all the due process under law but I'd really just want to smack him in the teeth, and that's not normally like me.

The man has spent his career abusing the legal system for the benefit of the super-wealthy. Actually guilty or not, I hope he gets raked over the loving coals. He loving deserves it.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 04:50

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

Thanatosian posted:

The man has spent his career abusing the legal system for the benefit of the super-wealthy. Actually guilty or not, I hope he gets raked over the loving coals. He loving deserves it.

Whatever he may or may not have done, I'm not sure this is an accurate representation of Dershowitz's legal career.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 05:20

Ham Equity: Apr 16, 2013; i hosted a great goon meet and all i got was this lousy avatar; Grimey Drawer

The Warszawa posted:

Whatever he may or may not have done, I'm not sure this is an accurate representation of Dershowitz's legal career.

Honestly, he deserves to get raked over the coals based on the poo poo he's said and written alone.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 05:28

Caros: May 14, 2008

Nation posted:

due process under law is a year for sex trafficking underage girls

Are you serious? What the gently caress is wrong with the states?

# ? Jan 30, 2015 06:20

Red and Black: Sep 5, 2011

Caros posted:

Are you serious? What the gently caress is wrong with the states?

He's referring to the plea bargain Epstein took. You only get a sentence that light if you're rich and influential. I imagine it's the same in much of Europe.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 06:41

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Whatever happened to the Hackgate (perhaps excessively mega)thread? Isn't this an outgrowth of some of the topics in there?

# ? Jan 30, 2015 06:42

Willie Tomg: Feb 2, 2006

# ? Jan 30, 2015 06:49

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Caros posted:

Are you serious? What the gently caress is wrong with the states?

I dunno, probably about almost a hundred years of slavery then a hundred years of Jim Crow, good guy stuff.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 07:02

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Whatever happened to the Hackgate (perhaps excessively mega)thread? Isn't this an outgrowth of some of the topics in there?

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507541&pagenumber=75&perpage=40

It was mentioned when it made news recently. "Another person more wealthy than you can imagine implicated in literal evil, now enough for a game of soccer."

# ? Jan 30, 2015 07:18

Mia Wasikowska: Oct 7, 2006

Dershowitz is the scum of the earth but I doubt any of this will stick

# ? Jan 30, 2015 07:32

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

So whats with all of these European government officials and elite turning out to be in huge pedo rings like out of True Detective?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm_Guest_House_child_abuse_scandal

What the gently caress is going on? I wonder how much of this is happening in America, but I guess the powerful being exempt from the law is a universal

# ? Jan 30, 2015 07:36

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

I remember seeing dershowitz defend the nsa spying program against glenn greenwald on cspan a few months back and thinking he was a huge loving rear end in a top hat. Clearly, I was right.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 07:39

Blind Melon: Jan 3, 2006; I like fire, you can have some too.

IMO there is a strong overlap between people actively desiring and seeking out power, and wanting to gently caress children.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 08:18

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Blind Melon posted:

IMO there is a strong overlap between people actively desiring and seeking out power, and wanting to gently caress children.

They're easier to keep quiet.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 08:59

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Blind Melon posted:

IMO there is a strong overlap between people actively desiring and seeking out power, and wanting to gently caress children.

People who seek power are by and large broken individuals to begin with, so it's not surprising that there is a pretty large contingent of kiddie fuckers among them.

"She had sex with men, therefor she can't be trusted to discuss who she had sex with" is the so circular that it's almost funny. If we can wreck a couple more great men's lives out of this scandal, it will be the greatest thing ever.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 12:41

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

What's with his obsession with female students complaining about his class? Students will tolerate pretty much anything in my experience. I wonder how much of his class was about how women are lying whores?

# ? Jan 30, 2015 14:52

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Blind Melon posted:

IMO there is a strong overlap between people actively desiring and seeking out power, and wanting to gently caress children.

I think when you get rich enough normal morality just slips away when you realize you can do pretty much anything you want without the interference of the law.

I don't think every billionaire is a pedophile murderer or anything, because ultimately people find other outlets for their money.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 15:08

shoplifter: May 23, 2001; bored before I even began

I find it incredible that David Icke was right about the kiddie fuckers

# ? Jan 30, 2015 17:20

ukle: Nov 28, 2005

shoplifter posted:

I find it incredible that David Icke was right about the kiddie fuckers

Hes been right about a few things, which in a way is worrying as makes you wonder what other nutter conspiracy theories actually have a small ounce of truth.

This whole Epstein situation is not a one off that's for sure, you just have to look at Berlusconi's Bunga Bunga parties, for another widely publicised instance of under age prostitutes. Underage prostitution and the powerful is probably not that uncommon, as others say power attracts abusers, after all many abusers abuse for the feeling of power over others not just sexual gratification.

# ? Jan 30, 2015 19:16

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

The age of consent in the UK is 16 so even with incontrovertible proof Randy Andy 'only' cheated on his wife and broke Yank law.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 01:51

Captain_Maclaine: Sep 30, 2001; Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

Jack Gladney posted:

What's with his obsession with female students complaining about his class?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe, juuuuust maybe, the dude has a problem with women.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 01:58

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

Caros posted:

Everytime I hear this guy in the news, or see something he's written in print I can't help but just really, really want to punch him in the face. I mean, I hope he gets all the due process under law but I'd really just want to smack him in the teeth, and that's not normally like me.

I dunno, I don't really have any desire to personally punch him or anything; I'd have to spend a really long time washing my hand afterwards. I would just like it if he lost all of his credibility and had all of his assets seized and maybe spent the rest of his life in prison if he's guilty of this (the "if he's guilty of this" only applies to the prison; I'm cool with him losing all his money and credibility just for being a terrible human being).

# ? Jan 31, 2015 02:44

mugrim: Mar 2, 2007; The same eye cannot both look up to heaven and down to earth.

Captain_Maclaine posted:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe, juuuuust maybe, the dude has a problem with women.

I read "The Abuse Excuse" (paperback) when I was 15, at the height of my generic white straight male teen libertarian stage, and even then thought it was really gross. So.....yeah

# ? Jan 31, 2015 02:47

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

McDowell posted:

The age of consent in the UK is 16 so even with incontrovertible proof Randy Andy 'only' cheated on his wife and broke Yank law.

Aren't they talking about some of the sex having happened in the US (New York and the US Virgin Islands)? I'm not sure why the UK's laws would be applicable. Also, does the UK have a law about having sex with trafficked persons? (anti-sex tourism) The US has that and depending on how the exact stuff gets spun, he might be guilty of that as well (the US claims universal jurisdiction for that)

# ? Jan 31, 2015 06:31

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

rkajdi posted:

I'm not sure why the UK's laws would be applicable.

They wouldn't, but I can't see the UK extraditing him if he was found guilty - he would just never be able to leave the country again. But this is all hypothetical because this is a civil suit, not a criminal case.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 06:36

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

McDowell posted:

They wouldn't, but I can't see the UK extraditing him if he was found guilty - he would just never be able to leave the country again. But this is all hypothetical because this is a civil suit, not a criminal case.

I can't see the UK extraditing him no matter what the circumstances. Just getting to the point where the guy is stuck in the UK and constantly called a pedo is all I'd expect to happen to him. Though maybe if the trafficking stuff pans out there's enough pressure to do something decent. I'd also put up with giving him a deal if he flips on Dershowitz and that guy hangs.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 07:13

Watermelon City: May 10, 2009

This is some Eyes Wide Shut type poo poo IRL.

Watermelon City fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Jan 31, 2015

# ? Jan 31, 2015 09:07

A Fancy 400 lbs: Jul 24, 2008

I bet Dershowitz didn't gently caress her while he was busy not plagiarizing for his books.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 09:31

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Who cares about Dershowitz. Yeah he's terrible blah blah chow meow. Meanwhile Bill Clinton was on a plane with a convicted pedo and a guy who sure smells like an unconvicted pedo along with several different women on many different occasions, none of whom have come forward yet...and there was at least one rumor I've read, many years ago, about Bill and women on planes. I wish I could find it but it was just non-specific enough that there's nothing to go on.

If this blows up Dershowitz will be a sideshow, and if there's any other evidence besides that log it will blow up because guess what presidential candidate is perennially the subject of tens of millions of dollars of oppo research?

e: the rumor was not about Christy Zercher, this was after his Presidency and published sometime between 2007-2008 IIRC

Adar fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jan 31, 2015

# ? Jan 31, 2015 11:09

Silver2195: Apr 4, 2012

Adar posted:

Who cares about Dershowitz. Yeah he's terrible blah blah chow meow. Meanwhile Bill Clinton was on a plane with a convicted pedo and a guy who sure smells like an unconvicted pedo along with several different women on many different occasions, none of whom have come forward yet...and there was at least one rumor I've read, many years ago, about Bill and women on planes. I wish I could find it but it was just non-specific enough that there's nothing to go on.

If this blows up Dershowitz will be a sideshow, and if there's any other evidence besides that log it will blow up because guess what presidential candidate is perennially the subject of tens of millions of dollars of oppo research?

e: the rumor was not about Christy Zercher, this was after his Presidency and published sometime between 2007-2008 IIRC

Pretty much what I was thinking. This could be a big deal. Actually, I'm a little surprised it's not already a big deal.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 17:34

A Fancy 400 lbs: Jul 24, 2008

I assume the difference is Clinton might've flown on his plane a few times, whereas Dershowitz and Prince Andrew were close friends and supporters of him. I assume that despite being a pedophile he didn't use his plane for underage sex literally every time he flew on it.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 18:25

Perestroika: Apr 8, 2010

This is the first time I've really read much of anything about Dershowitz, and I can barely even believe he's a real person. He's the kind of character I'd expect to see as an antagonist on some cheesy TV crime show. :psyduck:

# ? Jan 31, 2015 18:58

Vitamin P: Nov 19, 2013; Can't post for 6 days!

Dreylad posted:

I think when you get rich enough normal morality just slips away when you realize you can do pretty much anything you want without the interference of the law.

This is the problem with massive inequality, if people have the social power to get away with something then some of them will inevitably do it. Especially if that power was inherited, so the entitlement is naturally a part of the persons character. Exercising power is a thrill, it's not terribly different to people abusing the homeless or children killing animals. It's almost pointless to blame the individual perpetrator, the goal has to be removing those power imbalances from society in general.

That said it must be utterly terrifying to be a young girl trapped on a private island with some of the most powerful men in the world, knowing that they could do whatever they wanted and get away with it.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 19:40

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Adar posted:

Who cares about Dershowitz. Yeah he's terrible blah blah chow meow. Meanwhile Bill Clinton was on a plane with a convicted pedo and a guy who sure smells like an unconvicted pedo along with several different women on many different occasions, none of whom have come forward yet...and there was at least one rumor I've read, many years ago, about Bill and women on planes. I wish I could find it but it was just non-specific enough that there's nothing to go on.

If this blows up Dershowitz will be a sideshow, and if there's any other evidence besides that log it will blow up because guess what presidential candidate is perennially the subject of tens of millions of dollars of oppo research?

e: the rumor was not about Christy Zercher, this was after his Presidency and published sometime between 2007-2008 IIRC

The fall of Alan Dershowitz would never, ever be a sideshow to me. :allears:

# ? Jan 31, 2015 20:09

Rebochan: Feb 2, 2006; Take my evolution

A Fancy 400 lbs posted:

I assume the difference is Clinton might've flown on his plane a few times, whereas Dershowitz and Prince Andrew were close friends and supporters of him. I assume that despite being a pedophile he didn't use his plane for underage sex literally every time he flew on it.

According to Gawker, there's more than a few questionable flights with Clinton on board with women later identified as part of the sex trafficking ring.

I'm kind of amazed this hasn't blown up bigger, to be honest, the case against Dershowitz and Prince Andrew first hit the press in early January.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 20:18

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 16:23

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

SedanChair posted:

The fall of Alan Dershowitz would never, ever be a sideshow to me.

I doubt he'll actually face any consequences for any of his actions, though at least his reputation has been tarnished somewhat.

# ? Jan 31, 2015 20:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Prince Andrew, Alan Dershowitz alleged to have had sex with minor

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