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Pissflaps posted:The Greens have dropped mincome from their 2015 manifesto so we won't be seeing those costings after all. Seems a bit weird that Bennett is the party leader in this case
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Feb 2, 2015 14:05
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definitely weird that they've let sn australian in. inconceivable that anyone would ever vote for a foreign national. 
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Feb 2, 2015 14:18
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Ok so I can accept it was a bad interview, embarrassing for all, but for gently caress sake Greens, worse policies have been taken forward after worse press coverage, if it was important (it was) maybe you should consider braving the storm just a little. Social democrats are loving worthless. Edit: actually a quick google doesn't seem to indicate either of those things pissflaps, where did you hear it? namesake fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 14:22
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Lord Twisted posted:I voted for greens in EU elections but frankly regret it after a rewatch of that disaster. So crisis averted?
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Feb 2, 2015 14:25
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mfcrocker posted:Seems a bit weird that Bennett is the party leader in this case Yeah god knows why she handed over the reigns given she must have known how dodgy Bennett is. I know of a few OAP's joining the Greens after seeing their manifesto, but if they saw the video they might have second thoughts which would honestly be bad, as while Bennett's a mess they offer the best hope the people have in the established parties. Its not as if they are going to get elected any time soon, but if they get bigger then inevitably they will get a leader (e.g. Lucas) who is worthy.
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Feb 2, 2015 14:33
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namesake posted:Edit: actually a quick google doesn't seem to indicate either of those things pissflaps, where did you hear it? http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/02/natalie-bennett-needs-to-take-lessons-in-enthusiasm-from-caroline-lucas/
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Feb 2, 2015 14:39
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namesake posted:Ok so I can accept it was a bad interview, embarrassing for all, but for gently caress sake Greens, worse policies have been taken forward after worse press coverage, if it was important (it was) maybe you should consider braving the storm just a little. I've only been able to find it in right-leaning papers. Pissflaps just posted the Spectator, and here's the Telegraph on it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11383801/Greens-ditch-citizens-income-from-election-manifesto.html However, two major points: 1. This is the right-wing press. They're hugely exaggerating as expected: quote:However speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today Programme, Ms Lucas downplayed the significance of the policy to the Green Party’s election pitch. 2. Lucas, while a very senior figure within the Greens, is not its leader. Neither, in a weird way, is Bennett. The whole way the party is set up means it has convenors rather than 'leaders' as such, who require broad consensus to make any major changes. Neither of them could just up and decide to take such a major flagship policy out of the manifesto at what is (relatively speaking) the last minute. Much more likely, I'd think, that the position of basic income hasn't actually changed, and has always been a long term goal rather than something that would be put into place on day 1 of a Green government. The Bennett interview has just put the spotlight on it, and the press is doing what the press does.
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Feb 2, 2015 14:52
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ThomasPaine posted:1. This is the right-wing press. They're hugely exaggerating as expected: I don't understand what the bit you've quoted and the bit you've bolded is meant to say that isn't in the link I provided?
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Feb 2, 2015 14:54
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Cerv posted:definitely weird that they've let sn australian in. Didn't he get his collar felt by the US IRS for unpaid taxes?
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Feb 2, 2015 14:55
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ultrabindu posted:Didn't he get his collar felt by the US IRS for unpaid taxes?
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Feb 2, 2015 14:59
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Pissflaps posted:I don't understand what the bit you've quoted and the bit you've bolded is meant to say that isn't in the link I provided? Essentially they haven't 'dropped' the policy and there hasn't been a 'U-Turn', that's just how the press is framing it.
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Feb 2, 2015 15:09
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ThomasPaine posted:Essentially they haven't 'dropped' the policy and there hasn't been a 'U-Turn', that's just how the press is framing it. She said it would be costed in their Manifesto and now quote:“The citizen's income, as I've explained, is not going to be a red line and because it’s not going to be in the 2015 election manifesto.” how is that not a dropped policy?
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Feb 2, 2015 15:12
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LemonDrizzle posted:
I'd suggest being really careful about your instinctive reaction to this story. I know of a situation where the parents gave 110%, over many many years to try and be supportive and welcoming to their heroin addicted son. They were repeatedly burned over the years and eventually there came a point where they said "we can't keep on giving you second chances and having our lives destroyed, you're on your own". It's very easy for the addict to paint it as them cruelly cast off by their family, but this couple had the patience of saints and were driven to the end of their tether. I suspect that given the easy political capital that could be made off stories like this, the MP will have also pursued all reasonable alternatives to support his brother.
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Feb 2, 2015 15:15
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LemonDrizzle posted:He settled that bill, and tbh while there are plenty of things you can have a go at him for, that's not really one of them - the USA asserting the right to tax anyone who happens to hold US citizenship even on income earned and taxed outside the US, while living outside the US, is pretty much bullshit. This is possibly the only single time I could ever feel a shred of sympathy for the odious oaf. That's the dumbest thing I've heard in ages - so you can live/work your entire life outside the US and the IRS always has the 'right' to demand payment? Buh?
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Feb 2, 2015 15:24
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Sentinel Red posted:This is possibly the only single time I could ever feel a shred of sympathy for the odious oaf. That's the dumbest thing I've heard in ages - so you can live/work your entire life outside the US and the IRS always has the 'right' to demand payment? Buh? It's worse than that, even. There's meant to be a reciprocal arrangement where if you earn money in the US or UK while domiciled in the other, you pay tax in your country of residence. Needless to say, like all such arrangements it only applies when the UK is doing something for the US. Tl;Dr - gently caress the IRS, they owe me $300.
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Feb 2, 2015 15:31
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Sentinel Red posted:This is possibly the only single time I could ever feel a shred of sympathy for the odious oaf. That's the dumbest thing I've heard in ages - so you can live/work your entire life outside the US and the IRS always has the 'right' to demand payment? Buh? Yeah the IRS are mega-level assholes.
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Feb 2, 2015 15:34
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Mister Adequate posted:I don't see how - she's only answered two questions thus far, and both replies have been pretty reasonable. In fact there's also discussion that a notable section of the Greens wants their nuclear policy changed, which means it's one of the best things I've seen from them in awhile, because their position on science issues like that is my big sticking point with them, as it is with many others. She answered eighteen in the end - but took quite a lot of time to get rolling. And we last tried to change our policy on nuclear power last November - the motion was botched and still managed about a third of the conference. Which means we can next make the attempt in November 2016. (We changed our position on homeopathy back either in 2010 or 2011 - which is why there are so many who think that the Greens are pro-homeopathy. Our current position boils down to "We support homeopathy and the like as long as it can be shown to work"). ukle posted:Yeah god knows why she handed over the reigns given she must have known how dodgy Bennett is. Lucas was trying to do three jobs at once - constituency MP, Westminster MP, and leader of the Green Party. She felt she couldn't do all three at once. The party voted on who took over from her - and Bennett is great at throwing red meat to an audience that's already onside. And the Green Party policies are what we believe would be good in a perfect world given as free a hand as possible. The Manifesto is what we are fighting on right now. We've not dropped the Citizen's Income from our policies, but more immediate policies include rolling back austerity and a £10 living wage. If there's an opportunity to push forward with Citizen's Income we'll take it
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Feb 2, 2015 16:12
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This article: Puts across a convincing argument Bennett is a very capable organisers and that the Greens have been caught completely off guard by their sudden surge to prominence, which explains the unpolished PR activities. The idea the Greens are dropping the Citizens Income because it isn't a manifesto promise for this May is silly. Old Labour hadn't dropped Clause 4 when they didn't include it manifesto promises, it was a similar long term aspiration.
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Feb 2, 2015 16:31
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Does the Tory Party have any official long term aspirations that they leave out of their manifestos? I hope they do and it's something like "A return to the Victorian era", but it's probably wishy washy bullshit like "making Britain Great again" (which for them means the same thing)
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Feb 2, 2015 17:50
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Speaking of dropping things, we accidentally dropped a tree branch through Theresa May's fence at work today. Oops.
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Feb 2, 2015 17:53
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neonchameleon posted:Our current position boils down to "We support homeopathy and the like as long as it can be shown to work"). So basically you no longer support homeopathy 
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Feb 2, 2015 18:11
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Bozza posted:Speaking of dropping things, we accidentally dropped a tree branch through Theresa May's fence at work today. Oops. You're a terrorist now bozza
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Feb 2, 2015 18:27
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Sentinel Red posted:This is possibly the only single time I could ever feel a shred of sympathy for the odious oaf. That's the dumbest thing I've heard in ages - so you can live/work your entire life outside the US and the IRS always has the 'right' to demand payment? Buh? It's true, and it's bullshit. It's why my mum (who is American) didn't have my sister and I registered as US citizens until right before we actually moved to the US. gently caress the IRS.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:30
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Sentinel Red posted:This is possibly the only single time I could ever feel a shred of sympathy for the odious oaf. That's the dumbest thing I've heard in ages - so you can live/work your entire life outside the US and the IRS always has the 'right' to demand payment? Buh? If you are a US citizen abroad then you still need to file returns on everything every year with the IRS, just as you would if you lived there. But a US citizen in the UK only has to pay US taxes above a threshold of $100k iirc. Boris got caught out on the capital gains of selling a home in London.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:40
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Mega Comrade posted:So basically you no longer support homeopathy Basically yes.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:41
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Bozza posted:Speaking of dropping things, we accidentally dropped a tree branch through Theresa May's fence at work today. Oops. You rebel you. Regular Stone Cold Steve Austin's up in this sum bitch!
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Feb 2, 2015 18:44
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Pissflaps posted:She said it would be costed in their Manifesto and now From the Guardian article today: quote:Lucas said: “The citizen’s income is not going to be in the 2015 general election manifesto as something to be introduced on May 8th. It is a longer term aspiration, we are still working on it. The aim is absolutely, to be able to give everybody a guaranteed, non-means tested income, because that means that you can get around the poverty trap … It's not a dropped policy, it's still being kept in the manifesto, and the costing are still being published. I'm going to go with direct quotes instead of right-wing spin being published by the Spectator.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:57
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When she says "living wage" I assume she doesn't mean "minimum wage" and thus it will have very little meaning?
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Feb 2, 2015 19:05
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Hmm, considering they're not going to actually have any control over implementing their manifesto this election/parliament dropping a promise for them to do it does sound overly defeatist even if it hasn't totally disappeared. Here's hoping they publish, properly comprehend the thing and come out swinging later.
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Feb 2, 2015 19:06
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OwlFancier posted:When she says "living wage" I assume she doesn't mean "minimum wage" and thus it will have very little meaning? It's an odd thing to say since in the UK the living wage is something some organisations do voluntarily and isn't set by the government anyway.
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Feb 2, 2015 19:26
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Lord of the Llamas posted:It's an odd thing to say since in the UK the living wage is something some organisations do voluntarily and isn't set by the government anyway. Hence my pessimism/confusion.
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Feb 2, 2015 19:43
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Hobo posted:I'm going to go with direct quotes instead of right-wing spin being published by the Spectator. Her direct quote from the Today programme - in the post you just quoted - contradicts this.
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Feb 2, 2015 19:44
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Pissflaps posted:Her direct quote from the Today programme - in the post you just quoted - contradicts this. The Guardian article also quotes from that, but if you like, you can listen to the interview here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b050zkrm Her section starts at 2:23:20, and the part on citizen's income starts at 2:25:25, and the line you're mentioning is at ~2:28:30. What she actually says is that "it's not going to be in the 2015 manifesto as an (imminent/immediate) [unclear which as she gets talked over] proposal" - and the rest of the interview makes it clear that while it's not a red-line policy, it will be in the manifesto and the costings will be released. Hobo fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 20:06
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Jedit posted:It's worse than that, even. There's meant to be a reciprocal arrangement where if you earn money in the US or UK while domiciled in the other, you pay tax in your country of residence. Needless to say, like all such arrangements it only applies when the UK is doing something for the US. This is why I didn't get US citizenship when I lived over there, even though I could have. (Well, that and the cost). That said, while you have to file, you don't actually have anything to pay if you make less than about $90,000, if I recall. Which is a pretty decent salary!
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Feb 2, 2015 20:13
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feedmegin posted:This is why I didn't get US citizenship when I lived over there, even though I could have. (Well, that and the cost). You shouldn't have to file anything if you no longer live there, and you certainly shouldn't pay tax, even if you have a good income.
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Feb 2, 2015 20:21
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McDragon posted:1 to 10 I get, those are useful to know and get used. 11 and 12, I never really understood what they were good for apart from an indicator of "yeah, you've learnt a few things". Seems the first ten are good as a means to an ends, whereas any afterwards it just seems to be the end. I suspect it had more to do with counting with pre-decimal money than anything else - twelve pence to the shilling, see.
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Feb 2, 2015 20:23
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So the weeping syphilitic chodes at Spiked have released some Free Speech rankings. Your university gets an Amber if they have anti-harassment policy in their employee handbook. Leeds got a red! 
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Feb 2, 2015 20:49
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Hobo posted:What she actually says is that "it's not going to be in the 2015 manifesto as an (imminent/immediate) [unclear which as she gets talked over] proposal" - and the rest of the interview makes it clear that while it's not a red-line policy, it will be in the manifesto and the costings will be released. Looks like we'll have to just wait a few weeks and see whose interpretation of her words is correct.
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Feb 2, 2015 21:04
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Pissflaps posted:Looks like we'll have to just wait a few weeks and see whose interpretation of her words is correct. You mean her actual words where she confirms says that the details will be released in March? Ok.
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Feb 2, 2015 21:08
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Bozza posted:Speaking of dropping things, we accidentally dropped a tree branch through Theresa May's fence at work today. Oops. Finally a feelgood story about reducing border controls
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Feb 2, 2015 21:13
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