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uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

paradigmblue posted:

For another example of what an aggressive Japanese player can do, check out this AAR. It's only January 1942, and the Japanese player already has Borneo and Java in the bag, as well as the entire Eastern coast of Australia as far South as Brisbane (moving South of Brisbane triggers additional Australian reinforcements to appear in Aden) and has started a strategic bombing campaign on Sydney and Melbourne, has captured Ceylon, denying the allied player the critical ports of Colombo and Trincomalee, has broken through in Burma and has cut Rangoon off, and has captured Suva and the Somoan Islands, including Pago Pago.

To be fair, the AI doesn't evacuate troops as much as the allied player did, but the allied player wasn't necessarily wrong to do so - in none of those areas could the allied player actually have made a stand that would not have wound up with destroyed ground units and ships.

Also note this is sce 2 so Japan is stronger and that he completely bypasses the Philippines and ships those divisions to Australia.

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Abongination
Aug 18, 2010

Life, it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come.
Pillbug
I think Windy making a few mistakes makes this interesting, they did well to choose the sides they did with their respective skill levels.

Despite taking losses Windy should eventually win this but I think we'll get to see some violent carrier battles before its all through.

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008

Him just hanging back and playing it safe waiting for 1943 or so to roll around would be pretty drat boring.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost

Pimpmust posted:

Him just hanging back and playing it safe waiting for 1943 or so to roll around would be pretty drat boring.

That doesn't seem to be his plan at all.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Pimpmust posted:

Him just hanging back and playing it safe waiting for 1943 or so to roll around would be pretty drat boring.

He's being extremely aggressive, I think it's more a matter of Alikchi knows what he's doing and the allied player can't really do anything to stop the Japanese this early.

E: I mean really, he wants to invade the Kuriles in '42 and he's contesting Rabaul with a carrier. You can't call that playing safe.

uPen fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Feb 26, 2015

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost
He's planning to leave that carrier on-station for at least another day too. That's pretty loving ballsey.

Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!

Ahahaha he's gonna learn a valuble lesson about why you need to hit and run with the Allied Carriers in '42.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost

Saros posted:

Ahahaha he's gonna learn a valuble lesson about why you need to hit and run with the Allied Carriers in '42.

The whole KB is at Truk. This is going to hurt.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

I guess he's thinking he gets a day's warning due to LR Cap from the KB telling him that KB is steaming past Rabaul.

Didn't he also mention taking Truk. That might be a bit of a challenge.

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008

Oh, he's *not* hitting and running? Does he still got Buffalos onboard? Because :omarcomin:

Not that I think wildcats would help much at this stage.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Veloxyll posted:

I guess he's thinking he gets a day's warning due to LR Cap from the KB telling him that KB is steaming past Rabaul.

Didn't he also mention taking Truk. That might be a bit of a challenge.

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Truk (even from the beginning of the game IIRC) has a big loving naval fortress there, and in order to land effectively at all you need a pile of CA's and ideally BB's in your amphib TF to suppress the guns so your ships can unload without getting demolished. Pre-3/43 (AP -> APA conversion date) the Allies don't have specialized landing craft, so unloading will be slow as poo poo, and you don't have enough ships to really carry all that many troops, nor do you have all that many troops available to prep. Also the IJN should be able to easily roll back over Truk once they get some troops prep'd for it, since the KB is amazingly lethal well in to '43 unless something crazy happens.

I'm hoping that the Lexington magically makes it away, similar to the earlier battles in the Marshalls.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Pimpmust posted:

Oh, he's *not* hitting and running? Does he still got Buffalos onboard? Because :omarcomin:

Not that I think wildcats would help much at this stage.

Yes he does. Lexington starts with Buffalos (and he's still flying Buffalos.) It's unfortunate because they're playing with PDU on so he could have 'upgraded' all of the Marine squadrons flying Wildcats to Buffalos and used those to fill out Lexington.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost
Does anyone know what mod they're using for the map? It's so, so much better than the generic map.

paradigmblue
Oct 12, 2003

Zeroisanumber posted:

Does anyone know what mod they're using for the map? It's so, so much better than the generic map.

You can find it here.

It really is a fantastic map, I use it as well. Much easier on the eyes. My only complaint is that you can't tell terrain type easily by looking at the map, so if you want to know if a hex is jungle or not, for example, you have to turn on the hex detail overlay.

S w a y z e
Mar 19, 2007

f l a p

Yeah, it's called Yamato Damashii and it's kinda hard to find on the forums.

Magni
Apr 29, 2009
Well, Lady Lex got off easy there, just some singed eyebrows. :v:

Disinterested
Jun 29, 2011

You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?
I clenched for Windy.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost
Well, now Aki and Windy have both gotten lucky when they're being careless with carriers.

GenericServices
Apr 28, 2010
Makes for good action and drama, so hopefully they keep up the aggression!

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades
Having just finished re-reading a book on the pre-Midway Pacific war, which emphasized the suddenness with which carriers could destroy each other, reading about the cavalier carrier maneuvers in the LP has been... unnerving. :stare: Granted that there are more carriers in this scenario than historically, so the loss of any one wouldn't be as severe as it historically would be, but drat.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Saros posted:

To be fair the IJN is ridiculously boosted in this mod and the allies dont seem to have gotten very much in the way of extra toys.

This is my impression too. Pretty much everything I know about WitP comes from reading Grey's AARs, the Japanese gain of several carriers right off the bat with more in production, and the potential of adding ME-262 clones in the late game seems way out of proportion to anything Windy was given.

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades
I don't see a problem with that given that the point is to give the Japanese margin for error and the potential to actually put up a long term fight.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
The Me 262 clone (which wasn't actually a clone, but more of a cargo-cult imitation of the German design using very rudimentary Japanese capacities) is available in the vanilla game as well.

Viral Warfare
Aug 4, 2010

~~a n d I a m c a l m~~

Corbeau posted:

I don't see a problem with that given that the point is to give the Japanese margin for error and the potential to actually put up a long term fight.

Me neither. Unless you do extraordinarily well as the Japanese, which is difficult to do in the first place, and win the war overwhelmingly in the first two years, there's just no way for you to achieve victory against the Allies. While that might be realistic, it also isn't particularly interesting to watch. I enjoy more even footing.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Viral Warfare posted:

Me neither. Unless you do extraordinarily well as the Japanese, which is difficult to do in the first place, and win the war overwhelmingly in the first two years, there's just no way for you to achieve victory against the Allies. While that might be realistic, it also isn't particularly interesting to watch. I enjoy more even footing.

I like the Reluctant Admiral mod's approach: It gives the Japanese a lot of immediately available assets, but very limited strategic reserves to keep the enlarged fleet going. Thus the Japanese, despite their apparent advantage, need to move really fast, and seek decisive victories. If they don't, the Allies will steam roll them with their own modded assets. Also John 3, the curator of the mod, is a great LPer AAR writer.

Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!

I think the problem is they started from a base of Scenario 2, which is the one where the Japanese are already enormously more powerful than normal (scenario 1), to the point where its fully possible to over-run India and Australia and then added EVEN MORE toys for the IJN. A few lovely CVL, a couple more plane types and some divisions further forward than historical (where they get bypassed and wiped out anyway) is not going to even come close to evening the odds. From what I see I expect the IJN to have carrier superiority until '44 and the 'unlimited' numbers of Japanese planes as well as their likely superiority (R&D means you can maintain a quality edge until P-47 arrive in large numbers and even then you can afford to go 1:3 against them WIth Georges/Franks and still run the allied pools dry) combined with insufficient numbers of Allied plane replacements means it will be very hard to advance.

After the initial few months I expect Alikchi to pick a target (India/Aus), take most of it and then smash windy in a pitched carrier battle somewhere in the Pacific unless someone talks some sense into him about these mad plans for Guam/Truk.

I'm also going to be a little smug in here about my game against Alikchi/Windy which is going rather differently (there's nowhere else to do it.) Alikchi tried the same Java/Palembang landings he did against Windy and it looks like the end result is a lot of drowned infantry, BB Ise sunk outright, Fuso crippled with 4 torpedo and multiple bomb hits and a couple of messed up cruisers. Come next turn there are 2 UK slow BB's, 2 US fast BB's and about 20 assorted US/UK/Dutch cruisers that are going to be all over that invasion force and its escorts. I predict a jolly good time will be had by all. :britain: :911:

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost

Saros posted:

I think the problem is they started from a base of Scenario 2, which is the one where the Japanese are already enormously more powerful than normal (scenario 1), to the point where its fully possible to over-run India and Australia and then added EVEN MORE toys for the IJN. A few lovely CVL, a couple more plane types and some divisions further forward than historical (where they get bypassed and wiped out anyway) is not going to even come close to evening the odds. From what I see I expect the IJN to have carrier superiority until '44 and the 'unlimited' numbers of Japanese planes as well as their likely superiority (R&D means you can maintain a quality edge until P-47 arrive in large numbers and even then you can afford to go 1:3 against them WIth Georges/Franks and still run the allied pools dry) combined with insufficient numbers of Allied plane replacements means it will be very hard to advance.

After the initial few months I expect Alikchi to pick a target (India/Aus), take most of it and then smash windy in a pitched carrier battle somewhere in the Pacific unless someone talks some sense into him about these mad plans for Guam/Truk.

I'm also going to be a little smug in here about my game against Alikchi/Windy which is going rather differently (there's nowhere else to do it.) Alikchi tried the same Java/Palembang landings he did against Windy and it looks like the end result is a lot of drowned infantry, BB Ise sunk outright, Fuso crippled with 4 torpedo and multiple bomb hits and a couple of messed up cruisers. Come next turn there are 2 UK slow BB's, 2 US fast BB's and about 20 assorted US/UK/Dutch cruisers that are going to be all over that invasion force and its escorts. I predict a jolly good time will be had by all. :britain: :911:

Yarr!

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008

I don't think it's much of a "problem" that they are using this mod instead of something like RA, certainly beats yet another LP of a very samey war.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Keep in mind that they've said the US will get a few toys they want to keep as a surprise.

1943 nukes?

Abongination
Aug 18, 2010

Life, it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come.
Pillbug
Its interesting that both players are feeling like they are being outplayed by their opponent in China.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost
China's often a clusterfuck for both sides. Sometimes players exchange Chinese cities and come to a gentlemen's agreement to ignore the theater for the game.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Two human players combined with a completely different force layout is making this a very interesting LP. They can't rely on historical hindsight as much so their decisions seem so much more organic or in-the-moment.

Theantero
Nov 6, 2011

...We danced the Mamushka while Nero fiddled, we danced the Mamushka at Waterloo. We danced the Mamushka for Jack the Ripper, and now, Fester Addams, this Mamushka is for you....
To those interested, Steinrokkan revived his old WitP LP.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3704111

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!
I love that Windy's plan re: the Philippines was nearly identical to IRL Britain's about Malaya and came to the same end.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
So, does the map they are using differentiate between different tile types beyond mountains / plains? I have really hard time discerning swamps, forests, jungles etc. I mean, it looks nicer than the original, but I'm not sure an aesthetic improvement is worth it if it indeed obscures information.

i81icu812
Dec 5, 2006

steinrokkan posted:

So, does the map they are using differentiate between different tile types beyond mountains / plains? I have really hard time discerning swamps, forests, jungles etc. I mean, it looks nicer than the original, but I'm not sure an aesthetic improvement is worth it if it indeed obscures information.

Nope. Hope you memorized all of the various plant growth patterns of southeast Asia.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

steinrokkan posted:

So, does the map they are using differentiate between different tile types beyond mountains / plains? I have really hard time discerning swamps, forests, jungles etc. I mean, it looks nicer than the original, but I'm not sure an aesthetic improvement is worth it if it indeed obscures information.

I love the map and if you need more info hit the 1 key to turn on the overlay.

Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Hewlo Furriend
Does anyone know why Windy stopped posting? I miss seeing both sides of the field.

Theantero
Nov 6, 2011

...We danced the Mamushka while Nero fiddled, we danced the Mamushka at Waterloo. We danced the Mamushka for Jack the Ripper, and now, Fester Addams, this Mamushka is for you....

Tevery Best posted:

Does anyone know why Windy stopped posting? I miss seeing both sides of the field.

:effort: seems like the most probable reason.

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PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Yeah, I really want to know what happened to his (probably very insane) plan to hit Truk while the DEI were taking center stage. From just reading the Japanese side it seems like Windy is getting his rear end kicked.

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