Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

In this thread, let's wrangle about everything related to Law Enforcement, good and bad. :cop:

Be it reforms that are not working, that are working, horrible abuses, good practices, US cops and international cops, whatever pertains to the concept of a "system by which some members of society act in an organized manner to enforce the law by discovering, deterring, rehabilitating or punishing persons who violate the rules and norms governing that society."

:patriot:

While this will surely be mostly about the bad sides of Law Enforcement in the United States, don't let that stop you. Law Enforcement in the US kills more, fires more bullets and loses more officers than any civilized nation in the world, both absolutely and per capita. It offers plenty to talk about. In addition, the sentences in the United States are most draconian when pretty much compared to any other nation in the world. Only western nation to practice regular death penalties and to have life sentences without parole, despite most of the world having a life sentence of where only a small portion of it is spent behind bars. While prison reform is its own thread, Law Enforcement ties directly into it too and thus can't be separated from the discussion. While many are horrified by some of the abuses in Law Enforcement in the US, many more believe everything to be well in their black-white worldview where evil people get what they deserve and good people aren't affected. Reforming the police can be hard if the majority see nothing wrong with it. :patriot:

Here we can also discuss about the amount of force that should be necessary in policing, be it US mag-dumps or EU limb shots :getin:

Or perhaps creating a police force like in the UK where routine officers do not carry nor are they trained to use firearms.
We can talk about the firearms the police use, what boots they use and how horrible some of the acquisitions for small time departments are and how rife with corruption and handshakes they are.
Or we can talk about Amsterdam Police in Netherlands putting up signs telling that people buying drugs should be more careful since a new batch is found dangerous.

Because there are all kinds of goons from nerds to gals, from kiddy twiddlers to federal agents, from farmers to fighter pilots, so do we have Cop Goons. You can ask them questions here in the Ask a Cop Goon thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3710350&perpage=40
Don't try to bring debate and discussion there or you might be met with hostility, drunkenness and lewd behavior. Humor is harsh, but if you have a legit question, odds are you'll get an answer very fast in an informative manner.

I'll start with three good things related to American Law Enforcement.

San Antonio trains officers to handle mental illness calls differently.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...ontent=20140819

quote:

It's almost 4 p.m., and police officers Ernest Stevens and Ned Bandoske have been driving around town in their unmarked black SUV since early this morning. The officers are part of San Antonio's mental health squad � a six-person unit that answers the frequent emergency calls where mental illness may be an issue.

The officers spot a call for help on their laptop from a group home across town.

We had absolutely no training 20 years ago in the police academy on how to deal with mental health disturbances.
- Ernest Stevens, San Antonio police officer
"A male individual put a blanket on fire this morning," Stevens reads from the blotter. "He's arguing ... and is a danger to himself and others. He's off his medications."

A few minutes later, the SUV pulls up in front of the group home. A thin 24-year-old sits on a wooden bench out back, wearing a black hoodie.

FBI Director said publicly things that many americans need to hear. Naturally, he is already a race baiter and a traitor and a supporter of thugs.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/12/politics/police-race-relations-james-comey/

quote:

FBI Director James Comey took on the issue of police and race relations Thursday challenging police to avoid "lazy mental short-cuts" that can lead to bias in the way they treat blacks and other minorities.

While he asked minority communities dealing with issues of high crime to also recognize the inherent dangers officers face in trying to keep them safe, Comey was also critical of the history law enforcement in the country, which he described as "not pretty," but also the racial tensions have plagued American society as a whole.

And in other news, Richmond CA has tried another approach to police reform, helping people prone to crime instead of punishing them, and it seems to be working.

http://richmondpulse.org/in-a-relationship-with-the-richmond-police-department/

quote:

In the past decade, the police department in Richmond, Calif. has undergone a dramatic transformation. Spearheaded by an openly-gay and white chief in charge of policing this largely African American and Latino city, the changes are now bearing fruit, with crime down and trust between officers and the residents they are meant to protect on the rise. As departments nationwide look for ways to improve community ties in the wake of police killings in Ferguson and New York, Richmond stands as a promising template.

Richmond�s police department is undergoing something of a renaissance these days, thanks in part to decades of reform that have moved the department from its longstanding enforcement-driven model to one that focuses more on building trust with the public.

That transformation was thrust into the spotlight in December when an image of Chris Magnus, Richmond�s white, openly gay police chief, went viral, stirring a national response. In the image, Magnus is seen holding a �#BlackLivesMatter� sign while in full uniform at a demonstration against police brutality. The demonstration followed the acquittal of a white police officer in the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.

Finally, enjoy police officers from countries where Police Services don't use grooming standards.

Some lighter policing, here is this Lithuanian Police TV series showing a drunk or off-meds American girl threatening Lithunian cops with World War 3. It's loving hilarious.

"Even though the girl asked help from the United Nations, she was escorted to the hospital by regular police officers."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53gAFuE0FwQ

Subtitled.

Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Apr 8, 2015

# ? Feb 18, 2015 22:08

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 06:57

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

I'll also reserve the second OP in case I get super enthusiastic about doing somekind of megathread.

# ? Feb 19, 2015 00:06

Woof Blitzer: Dec 29, 2012; [-]

I would like one beard and one submachinegun, please.

# ? Feb 19, 2015 01:46

Terebus: Feb 17, 2007; Pillbug

I don't thinks this is the best source, but this is funny if it's true. A little bit lighthearted news out of New York.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/02/cop-misses-dog-and-hits-police-sergeant-instead/

quote:

We have all heard a lot of unfortunately stories lately about police officers shooting �man�s best friend.� But now, a police officer who was aiming at a dog missed the canine and accidentally shot his sergeant instead!

A pit bull inside of a Brooklyn apartment building was reportedly �charging� the officer, but had not attacked him, according to local WABC.

The officer who fired has not yet been identified, but New York City Police officials acknowledged that officers responded to a call inside of the apartment building around 10:30 p.m. Tuesday night. Once in the hallway, they say that a dog that was �mixed� with a pit bull was �let out� of one apartment.

The dog, one officer claimed in his report, charged at the officer and sergeant who had responded to the assault call. The dog did not belong to the family who the police had been called on.

The officer who discharged his weapon fired only one round, which �grazed� the dog, according to WABC, then ricocheting off a hallway wall according to police sources.

We asked the NYPD how a hollow point bullet like the once the department issues could have possibly ricocheted off a wall in the manner the officer described. They had no comment.

What they do claim is that the sergeant was hit by the bullet, which shot him in his foot, just by his big toe.

It sounds a lot more like the sergeant was accidentally shot directly by the poor aim of the officer who he was partnered with.

The pit bull is reportedly in good condition, as he was barely nicked by the round.

(Article by Reagan Ali and Moreh B.D.K.; image used for illustrative purposes)

# ? Feb 19, 2015 02:20

blunt for century: Jul 4, 2008; I've got a bone to pick.

California man punches self in face, claims police brutality in attempt to secure release from jail

White people :rolleyes:

# ? Feb 19, 2015 03:02

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

He should've punched harder.

# ? Feb 19, 2015 03:03

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Aaaaaand:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/18/politics/ferguson-justice-department-lawsuit/index.html

quote:

"The Justice Department is preparing to bring a lawsuit against the Ferguson, Missouri, police department over a pattern of racially discriminatory tactics used by officers, if the police department does not agree to make changes on its own, sources tell CNN.

Attorney General Eric Holder said this week he expects to announce the results of the department's investigation of the shooting death of Michael Brown and a broader probe of the Ferguson Police Department before he leaves office in the coming weeks."

# ? Feb 19, 2015 04:02

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/17/us/officer-dashcam-video-excessive-force-lawsuit/index.html

ST Louis cops forget to turn all cameras off:

quote:

A St. Louis man has filed a lawsuit alleging excessive force in a case that involves an officer turning off a dashcam that was recording the man's arrest.

At one point in the video from the dashcam, a female officer can be heard saying: "Hold up, everybody, hold up. We're red right now so if you guys are worried about cameras just wait."

The phrase "we're red right now" indicates that a camera is recording.

A second dashcam continued to record.

Video of the April arrest shows officers stopping a vehicle being driven by Cortez Bufford, whose car roughly matched the description of one possibly involved in an area shooting.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 01:12

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Florida police are using anti-terrorism equipment for basically anything, surprise!

https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/aclu-obtained-documents-reveal-breadth-secretive-sting

quote:

The ACLU is releasing records today obtained from law enforcement agencies across Florida about their acquisition and use of sophisticated cell phone location tracking devices known as �Stingrays.� These records provide the most detailed account to date of how law enforcement agencies across a single state are relying on the technology. (The full records are available here.)

The results should be troubling for anyone who cares about privacy rights, judicial oversight of police activities, and the rule of law. The documents paint a detailed picture of police using an invasive technology � one that can follow you inside your house � in many hundreds of cases and almost entirely in secret.

The secrecy is not just from the public, but often from judges who are supposed to ensure that police are not abusing their authority. Partly relying on that secrecy, police have been getting authorization to use Stingrays based on the low standard of �relevance,� not a warrant based on probable cause as required by the Fourth Amendment.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 01:17

Randbrick: Sep 28, 2002

Vahakyla posted:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/17/us/officer-dashcam-video-excessive-force-lawsuit/index.html

ST Louis cops forget to turn all cameras off:

There's something weird going on here. The existence or absence of dash cam video doesn't change the character of this case. If you get four or five cops who'll say that guy had a gun on him, you don't need a video recording. And no shenanigans about the video recording would change the basic features of that prosecution.

Essentially, when the DA says they can't prosecute this absent the dash cam, the DA is telling an overt and obvious lie.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 01:20

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Randbrick posted:

There's something weird going on here. The existence or absence of dash cam video doesn't change the character of this case. If you get four or five cops who'll say that guy had a gun on him, you don't need a video recording. And no shenanigans about the video recording would change the basic features of that prosecution.

Essentially, when the DA says they can't prosecute this absent the dash cam, the DA is telling an overt and obvious lie.

I'm pretty sure the DA is trying to avoid attention to the cops turning off the camera and possibly somekind of monetary compensation for days in jail etc.
He can prosecute it of course, but due to the increased scrutiny other people have in regards to the STL area, he chooses to fight elsewhere.

There is also a Florida cop who decides to first push a man to the ground, then slap his face.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/25/us/florida-ft-lauderdale-broward-county-police-slapping-dragging/index.html

quote:

Video shows the nine-year veteran of the Fort Lauderdale Police Department shoving the 58-year-old man to the ground. The two argue for a few seconds and, after telling the man to "get up" multiple times, Ramirez reaches for Laclair's arm.

Laclair pulls away, and Ramirez slaps the man in the face as he's still sitting on the ground.

"I'm not f***ing around with you. Don't f***ing touch me," Ramirez tells the man before handcuffing him."

Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 26, 2015

# ? Feb 26, 2015 01:24

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

Chicago cops are running a black site:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site

quote:

Alleged police practices at Homan Square, according to those familiar with the facility who spoke out to the Guardian after its investigation into Chicago police abuse, include:

Keeping arrestees out of official booking databases.

Beating by police, resulting in head wounds.

Shackling for prolonged periods.

Denying attorneys access to the �secure� facility.

Holding people without legal counsel for between 12 and 24 hours, including people as young as 15.

At least one man was found unresponsive in a Homan Square �interview room� and later pronounced dead.

quote:

Homan Square is hardly concerned exclusively with terrorism. Several special units operate outside of it, including the anti-gang and anti-drug forces. If police �want money, guns, drugs�, or information on the flow of any of them onto Chicago�s streets, �they bring them there and use it as a place of interrogation off the books,� Hill said.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 05:41

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

VikingofRock posted:

Chicago cops are running a black site:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site

I'm sure this won't be covered by the news and if it does it'll be just a "few bad apples." I wonder how many other police departments have something like this?

# ? Feb 26, 2015 06:39

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

KomradeX posted:

I'm sure this won't be covered by the news and if it does it'll be just a "few bad apples." I wonder how many other police departments have something like this?

Black bagging suspects is hardly new...doing it this blatantly is certainly something though.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 06:46

Goa Tse-tung: Feb 11, 2008; ;3; Yams Fan

I'm sure there will be disciplinary hearings and a change in department policy to rename it to person of color site.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 14:43

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

VikingofRock posted:

Chicago cops are running a black site:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site

Well then. Everytime I figure it can't get more messed up, some people deliver.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 19:02

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Also let me just leave this video of a French Leg shot to the thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_75uR4u5YEs

# ? Feb 26, 2015 22:20

Taeke: Feb 2, 2010

I'm doing a course on language and power/politics and I have to write a short paper (1500ish words) in which I apply some of the theories I learned (Critical Discourse Analysis and stuff.) I already used the whole Lee Atwater/Southern Strategy thing for a Language and Society course I did last year, otherwise I would do that, but I was thinking of doing a short and simple analysis (it's an elective, after all) on the event a while back with the NY metro worker being assaulted by an off-duty cop which is interesting in light of the change of language used in reports of that event before and after it became clear it was a police officer.

I remember it being talked about how some news agencies changed their stories, first talking about a senseless assault of a government worker by a thug, editing it to an essentially unfortunate incident (for which the transit employee was implicitly to blame.)

I'm really not asking you guys to do my homework for me but I'm (1) not from the US so I'm not all that familiar with US newspapers and (2) not as engaged as I know a lot of you are, so if anyone could link me some articles on this I would really appreciate it. Preferably it would be a (mirror of the) original report and the edited version without too much analysis, because I want to do the analysis myself, but really even a nudge in the right direction would be a big help.

Like I said, I'm not entirely familiar with all the journals and I'm sure some of you have exactly what I need bookmarked or at least know which papers I'm talking about, so it would save me a lot of googling/scouring through archives (if I could even access them) if you could help me out. I really only just need one or two examples of newspapers changing their story after it became apparent it was a cop that did the assault.

Thanks in advance.

# ? Feb 26, 2015 22:55

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

re: field drug testing

# ? Feb 26, 2015 23:07

Watermelon City: May 10, 2009

Vahakyla posted:

Also let me just leave this video of a French Leg shot to the thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_75uR4u5YEs

This is clearly impossible, so let us never speak of it again.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 01:57

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Taeke posted:

I'm doing a course on language and power/politics and I have to write a short paper (1500ish words) in which I apply some of the theories I learned (Critical Discourse Analysis and stuff.) I already used the whole Lee Atwater/Southern Strategy thing for a Language and Society course I did last year, otherwise I would do that, but I was thinking of doing a short and simple analysis (it's an elective, after all) on the event a while back with the NY metro worker being assaulted by an off-duty cop which is interesting in light of the change of language used in reports of that event before and after it became clear it was a police officer.

I remember it being talked about how some news agencies changed their stories, first talking about a senseless assault of a government worker by a thug, editing it to an essentially unfortunate incident (for which the transit employee was implicitly to blame.)

I'm really not asking you guys to do my homework for me but I'm (1) not from the US so I'm not all that familiar with US newspapers and (2) not as engaged as I know a lot of you are, so if anyone could link me some articles on this I would really appreciate it. Preferably it would be a (mirror of the) original report and the edited version without too much analysis, because I want to do the analysis myself, but really even a nudge in the right direction would be a big help.

Like I said, I'm not entirely familiar with all the journals and I'm sure some of you have exactly what I need bookmarked or at least know which papers I'm talking about, so it would save me a lot of googling/scouring through archives (if I could even access them) if you could help me out. I really only just need one or two examples of newspapers changing their story after it became apparent it was a cop that did the assault.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/thug-attacks-female-mta-employee-bronx-cops-article-1.2061700

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/01/04/heres-how-differently-the-media-covers-an-assault-before-and-after-learning-it-was-done-by-a-cop/

Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Feb 27, 2015

# ? Feb 27, 2015 02:05

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/video-mans-police-interaction-exposes-vast-conspiracy-film-police/#F3ZIDCeGEQpFDG3K.01

# ? Feb 27, 2015 05:41

Lord Windy: Mar 26, 2010

Does this happen at all in Australia? Because I never hear of anything like this over here.

Also I really like the police and pretty much have never had a bad experience with one.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 05:58

Yawgmoft: Nov 15, 2004

Do your police have a corrupting level of power, influence, and mythic hero status?

# ? Feb 27, 2015 06:08

Dr Pepper: Feb 4, 2012; Don't like it? well...

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/video-mans-police-interaction-exposes-vast-conspiracy-film-police/#F3ZIDCeGEQpFDG3K.01

So wait, a group of cops and prosecutors decided to try and ruin a man's life... because he told one cop about a lawsuit? He wasn't even the one suing them! Literally shooting the messenger.

It's not only evil, but beyond petty.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 06:18

Randbrick: Sep 28, 2002

Dr Pepper posted:

So wait, a group of cops and prosecutors decided to try and ruin a man's life... because he told one cop about a lawsuit? He wasn't even the one suing them! Literally shooting the messenger.

It's not only evil, but beyond petty.

Per the news report, the suit was filed by the victim's nephew.

Filing bogus obstruction, resisting arrest, and assault/battery charges is a the first step cops follow when they're faced with excessive force suits. Many states make ANY battery to a cop on the job a felony, and obstruction and witness intimidation charges almost always have a felony flavor. These charges gives them leverage over civil and possible civil plaintiffs, and often lets them to leverage bogus charges against the dismissal of civil lawsuits.

I would hazard a guess that there was a lot more to Mr. Dezinger's nephew's brutality suit, and that there is a gag order in place, because it never comes up in the story. I'd also note that the felony charges were filed ONE YEAR after the process was served, which could correspond pretty well to the lifespan of a civil lawsuit.

But, no, this was not some petty retaliation against a random process server, this was the local cops and DA's office targeting a family member of a civil plaintiff in an effort to force the plaintiff to back off on his claim. It's petty, cruel, and criminal, but it's also a lot more calculated than the story lets on.

Of course, if any non-prosecutor (real) lawyer ever backed a bogus story under these circumstances, assisting in fraudulent barratry, it really wouldn't be an open question what would happen to that attorney. A lucky outcome would be a suspension from practice so long as to essentially be disbarment. That is to say nothing of the criminal charges that would follow. Jail or prison time would not be outside the realm of possibility. And none of these consequences would be hypothetical or abstract -- your rear end would be toast, and fast.

Edit - One of the perjuring DA's still has a job on the taxpayer dime in that jurisdiction.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 07:03

Taeke: Feb 2, 2010

Vahakyla posted:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/thug-attacks-female-mta-employee-bronx-cops-article-1.2061700

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/01/04/heres-how-differently-the-media-covers-an-assault-before-and-after-learning-it-was-done-by-a-cop/

Exactly what I needed, thanks!

# ? Feb 27, 2015 12:50

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

Randbrick posted:

Per the news report, the suit was filed by the victim's nephew.

Filing bogus obstruction, resisting arrest, and assault/battery charges is a the first step cops follow when they're faced with excessive force suits. Many states make ANY battery to a cop on the job a felony, and obstruction and witness intimidation charges almost always have a felony flavor. These charges gives them leverage over civil and possible civil plaintiffs, and often lets them to leverage bogus charges against the dismissal of civil lawsuits.

I would hazard a guess that there was a lot more to Mr. Dezinger's nephew's brutality suit, and that there is a gag order in place, because it never comes up in the story. I'd also note that the felony charges were filed ONE YEAR after the process was served, which could correspond pretty well to the lifespan of a civil lawsuit.

But, no, this was not some petty retaliation against a random process server, this was the local cops and DA's office targeting a family member of a civil plaintiff in an effort to force the plaintiff to back off on his claim. It's petty, cruel, and criminal, but it's also a lot more calculated than the story lets on.

Of course, if any non-prosecutor (real) lawyer ever backed a bogus story under these circumstances, assisting in fraudulent barratry, it really wouldn't be an open question what would happen to that attorney. A lucky outcome would be a suspension from practice so long as to essentially be disbarment. That is to say nothing of the criminal charges that would follow. Jail or prison time would not be outside the realm of possibility. And none of these consequences would be hypothetical or abstract -- your rear end would be toast, and fast.

Edit - One of the perjuring DA's still has a job on the taxpayer dime in that jurisdiction.

This wasn't even a SLAPP, it was a Strategic Prosecution Against Public Participation. Christ.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 12:57

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

Taeke posted:

I'm doing a course on language and power/politics and I have to write a short paper (1500ish words) in which I apply some of the theories I learned (Critical Discourse Analysis and stuff.) I already used the whole Lee Atwater/Southern Strategy thing for a Language and Society course I did last year, otherwise I would do that, but I was thinking of doing a short and simple analysis (it's an elective, after all) on the event a while back with the NY metro worker being assaulted by an off-duty cop which is interesting in light of the change of language used in reports of that event before and after it became clear it was a police officer.

I remember it being talked about how some news agencies changed their stories, first talking about a senseless assault of a government worker by a thug, editing it to an essentially unfortunate incident (for which the transit employee was implicitly to blame.)

I'm really not asking you guys to do my homework for me but I'm (1) not from the US so I'm not all that familiar with US newspapers and (2) not as engaged as I know a lot of you are, so if anyone could link me some articles on this I would really appreciate it. Preferably it would be a (mirror of the) original report and the edited version without too much analysis, because I want to do the analysis myself, but really even a nudge in the right direction would be a big help.

Like I said, I'm not entirely familiar with all the journals and I'm sure some of you have exactly what I need bookmarked or at least know which papers I'm talking about, so it would save me a lot of googling/scouring through archives (if I could even access them) if you could help me out. I really only just need one or two examples of newspapers changing their story after it became apparent it was a cop that did the assault.

Thanks in advance.

Critique your own Language and Society paper. It'd be the perfect pure application of critical analysis. Also, the perfect crime.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 13:05

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Randbrick posted:

Per the news report, the suit was filed by the victim's nephew.

Filing bogus obstruction, resisting arrest, and assault/battery charges is a the first step cops follow when they're faced with excessive force suits. Many states make ANY battery to a cop on the job a felony, and obstruction and witness intimidation charges almost always have a felony flavor. These charges gives them leverage over civil and possible civil plaintiffs, and often lets them to leverage bogus charges against the dismissal of civil lawsuits.

I would hazard a guess that there was a lot more to Mr. Dezinger's nephew's brutality suit, and that there is a gag order in place, because it never comes up in the story. I'd also note that the felony charges were filed ONE YEAR after the process was served, which could correspond pretty well to the lifespan of a civil lawsuit.

But, no, this was not some petty retaliation against a random process server, this was the local cops and DA's office targeting a family member of a civil plaintiff in an effort to force the plaintiff to back off on his claim. It's petty, cruel, and criminal, but it's also a lot more calculated than the story lets on.

Of course, if any non-prosecutor (real) lawyer ever backed a bogus story under these circumstances, assisting in fraudulent barratry, it really wouldn't be an open question what would happen to that attorney. A lucky outcome would be a suspension from practice so long as to essentially be disbarment. That is to say nothing of the criminal charges that would follow. Jail or prison time would not be outside the realm of possibility. And none of these consequences would be hypothetical or abstract -- your rear end would be toast, and fast.

Edit - One of the perjuring DA's still has a job on the taxpayer dime in that jurisdiction.

i was about to ask, shouldn't those two prosecutors be facing disbarment? they didn't just hide evidence of the guy's innocence, they knowingly lied about his guilt

i guess being a criminal prosecutor means there's literally no punishment for your actions unless those actions are "didn't throw enough people in jail this month"

# ? Feb 27, 2015 13:28

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

Lord Windy posted:

Does this happen at all in Australia? Because I never hear of anything like this over here.

Also I really like the police and pretty much have never had a bad experience with one.

Anecdotally, the police are probably worse than Europe but not as bad as the US.

Australia has an excessive machismo culture which result in a more aggressive-than-norm police culture.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 13:56

Taeke: Feb 2, 2010

wateroverfire posted:

Critique your own Language and Society paper. It'd be the perfect pure application of critical analysis. Also, the perfect crime.

Haha, that's not a bad idea, actually, and I might even be able to persuade the teacher but I think I'll try to keep it as simple as possible.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 14:43

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/video-mans-police-interaction-exposes-vast-conspiracy-film-police/#F3ZIDCeGEQpFDG3K.01

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/senior-citizen-held-gunpoint-forced-remove-clothes-public-jailed-driving-classic-car/

# ? Feb 27, 2015 18:55

Dr Pepper: Feb 4, 2012; Don't like it? well...

Zeitgueist posted:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/senior-citizen-held-gunpoint-forced-remove-clothes-public-jailed-driving-classic-car/

Why on earth does it seem like the default course of action for a cop is "Draw gun, scream at person"

# ? Feb 27, 2015 19:42

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Dr Pepper posted:

Why on earth does it seem like the default course of action for a cop is "Draw gun, scream at person"

Because they have "Everyone is a threat and the second you drop your guard you're dead" pounded into their heads during training and then reinforced on the job by selective memory and a hyper-agressive police culture.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 20:24

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Dr Pepper posted:

Why on earth does it seem like the default course of action for a cop is "Draw gun, scream at person"

Because if that officer had only screamed at the mentally ill man going towards his pick-up truck he would not have gotten out a rifle and made the cop be the one to scream for another reason.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 21:44

fuccboi: Jan 5, 2004; by zen death robot

I gotta get into the copping business.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 21:55

achillesforever6: Apr 23, 2012; psst you wanna do a communism?

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/c...es/201502270211

Hopefully our new Police Chief can put his money where his mouth is.

Someone did send him a letter that gives more detail into what happened
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/27/1367284/-Pittsburgh-man-writes-police-chief-after-witnessing-police-brutality-sees-immediate-coverup

# ? Feb 28, 2015 00:52

Randbrick: Sep 28, 2002

quote:

The arrest is now the subject of an internal review requested by police Chief Cameron McLay, who �also says in his comments about this matter that he believes everything is in compliance, but he just wants to make sure,� public safety spokeswoman Sonya Toler said. �It's understandable that untrained people would question the use of something they�re not trained in.�

I always find this sort of thing charming, as though cops completed advanced coursework in the more complex comparative subtleties of beating the poo poo out of people who annoy them. Like if I walked in on a plumber screaming in rage and whaling away at my boiler with a basin wrench, I guess I should just turn around and walk the other way while the professional does his thing.

# ? Feb 28, 2015 01:13

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 06:57

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

Just today I finished being in a sequestered jury. We were sequestered for several days in a case where the main count was for attempted first degree murder. While interesting, it was also very depressing. Both the defendant and the victim (who was shot in the calf and then chased through a convenience store while being shot at 5 more times*) had a criminal record and were poor black people living in a poo poo part of the city. The victim had actually gone to the law office of the defendant's lawyer and requested not to prosecute, largely because he didn't want to have to come down to the courts and testify (or ruin the defendant's life). He was clearly very unhappy to be there as a witness. The only evidence that the defendant was the shooter was that the victim pointed him out on a panel of 6 faces (he had only known the shooter by his street name, not his full name). Granted, it was pretty convincing and I couldn't think of any reason for the witness to be lying (he didn't seem to know the defendant well and didn't even want to prosecute in the first place), but it's still stressful when you're talking about basically the rest of the defendant's (who was 40-something) life being spent in jail.

After all court proceedings, right before deliberations began, I was chosen as one of the two alternates (14 are chosen for the jury, with 2 randomly being chosen as alternates after the court proceedings and right before deliberations). In a way I'm kind of relieved that I won't potentially be involved in ruined this guy's life, even if he is guilty. On the other hand, I'll be really upset if the defendant ends up being convicted of attempted first degree murder, when I definitely wouldn't have settled for anything above attempted second degree murder (there was basically nothing proving that the shooter wasn't intoxicated or acting in the passion of the moment or something).

At the end, I'm left just feeling sort of empty about the whole thing. Even if the defendant was the shooter (which he probably was), the victim had specifically said that he didn't want to ruin his life or anything, or even prosecute in the first place. So given that prison isn't really rehabilitative, what is him being convicted of this crime going to accomplish? I guess it might prevent him from committing some other crime, but I have a strong feeling from watching the video that the defendant (if he was the shooter) was drunk or under the influence of something when he shot the victim.

Everything considered, being on a sequestered jury was a very unique experience. You end up talking with a bunch of strangers a whole lot when you don't have any internet access or TV. We got a lot of free food and the hotel they kept us at was nice. I'm still pretty relieved it's over, though.

*We were shown a video that showed everything that happened pretty clearly, but there was no sound and you couldn't make out the face of anyone, so it couldn't really ID the shooter.

edit: As a side note, I was kind of amazed at how similar the court proceedings were to the sort of stuff you see on TV and in major cases. Not in terms of having DNA evidence and stuff (our case only had the video and 4 witnesses - the victim + 3 police officers involved in the investigation), but in terms of the defense and prosecution giving these really involved speeches and objecting to things and what have you.

# ? Feb 28, 2015 02:26

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