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Hi folks, I have a chance to buy a four door 1979 Lincoln Continental Collector Edition for $4500. The body and interior are in perfect condition. No rust, no tears in the leather. It looks like a brand new car. I was blown away when I saw it. The engine starts up right away. It sputters a little bit when driven, but no loss of power. Car shifts fine. Brakes work great, the car doesn't pull to one side or anything. Power steering functions great. No electrical issues I can find. The _only_ issues I can see is that the valve covers have oil leakage around them. The car does have at least 100k miles. I'm guessing the engine or transmission will be the first to go. It's a Ford 6.6 400 ci. The downside/upside is that this guy is leaving for Europe tomorrow around lunch time. He showed me his plane ticket so I know this is true at least. He showed me his ID and the registration, all looks legit. I also looked on Craigslist and it looks like he has been listing this car for around a month now. I actually ended up going to a company dinner with his coworkers after the test drive so if the Europe thing is a scam it's a pretty drat elaborate one. VIN checkers don't show it as valid except for vinsmart and vinaudit, both show a historical title from 02/07/2007 and a current title from 09/20/2014, so I'm leaning toward this being a real VIN. I have an additional $3000 that I can put into this car if necessary, most likely engine or transmission overhaul. I am buying this car with the understanding that the engine or transmission will probably fail within the next year, just to be on the conservative side. I do know nothing about car repair, but I know what I like and I know that I want this car, quite strongly. My questions are: 1. Is this a good deal for this car? 2. Is it possible this car could be stolen and given a fake VIN plate? This is the only thing I can think of that could be going on here. It just sounds too good to be true. The VIN on the registration matches the dash VIN plate though, and the registration has the watermark. Could the registration be fake? Two online VIN checkers look good, but perhaps the VIN on the plate was copied off some random Lincoln that the seller found parked somewhere. Although this seems pretty elaborate. I do have pics of the VIN plate if that would help. 3. What are the likely engine failure modes? Is this engine easy or cheap to fix? Like I said, willing to put a few grand into this at the _very least_. 4. Are there any parts that can't be found for this car anymore? 5. What else can you recommend? Thanks!!
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Feb 19, 2015 06:50
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:06 |
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That's actually a really fun ride, my buddy had one, and as 2 white boys rolling around in a clean Linc his preacher dad had sourced from some member of his congregation that had died and only driven it on Sundays, we pretty much were guaranteed to have a "I WILL BUY THIS OFF YOU RIGHT NOW" note on the windshield every time we parked it anywhere there was a population. E not at all fuel efficient or reasonable though.
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Feb 19, 2015 07:07
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I realize it probably gets 10 mpg. Is that correct?
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Feb 19, 2015 07:38
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Remains Unseen posted:I realize it probably gets 10 mpg. Is that correct? Downhill. With the engine off.
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Feb 19, 2015 08:03
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The 400 is as gutless as they get (as was every engine in the late 70s/early 80s), but it's solid. The sputtering could probably be solved with a carb rebuild (which, after 36 years, it probably needs), or maybe even just a basic tuneup. Don't expect to find many aftermarket go-fast parts for the engine itself; it was purely a smog era engine (the 351M [not W] was a destroked 400; many of the parts are interchangeable, except for crank/rods, if I remember right). I know Edelbrock used to make a performance intake manifold for it, no idea if they still do. But swapping the stock intake and 2 barrel carb wakes it up about as much as possible. It uses a C6 automatic, which, if maintained, is pretty drat bulletproof. Hell, the previous owner of my 80 F-150 (same trans) had never changed the transmission fluid by the time I got it; it had an inch thick layer of sludge in the pan, and the fluid was black. Still drove fine for a couple more years before I started having transmission problems, though I changed the fluid several times over about a month. The rearend should be the Ford 9 inch, which could survive a nuclear blast, and the only damage would be a minor leak. If you get it, remember that the transmission uses Type F fluid, not the newer Mercon fluid. You won't be able to find the transmission fluid at Wal-Mart or most gas stations, but parts stores will usually still carry one or two brands of it. I know nothing about the value, though Wikipedia claims it's the most collectable of the Mark V (the "Collector's Series" added $8000 to the price of a base Mark V... in 1979 dollars). Anything built before the 1981 model year won't have a standardized VIN - so you won't be able to dig anything up for it on sites like Carfax. And I'd expect single digit mileage around town. My F-150 with a 351M and C6 got about 7 mpg around town, and probably weighed about the same. I managed to get 13 on the highway when I moved across the state (~650 miles). Most parts related to keeping it running should still be pretty easy to obtain (and most parts from the 351M [not W or C] should work), except for maybe the DuraSpark module (you'll want to keep an extra, they fail at the most inopportune times - Rockauto will likely still have them). DuraSpark (and DuraSpark II, which is likely the version that car has) was Ford's early electronic ignition system. It's very simple, but works well. I suggest keeping a spare simply because they do fail from time to time; my F-150 actually had (factory) mounts to mount a second module next to the original one, I assume for a spare. I only had to replace it once, but it gave no warning before it crapped out. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Feb 19, 2015 |
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Feb 19, 2015 08:26
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I made a mistake in the price on my original post! The actual price is $2000. I took it to a shop and had it looked at, but only had 30 min or so. They looked at the engine and found that one of the cylinders wasn't firing. They did find rust around part of the cooling system that looked like it had originated from the cooling system, however the coolant was last replaced in October and there is currently no rust in it. The final issue is front wheel bearings sound bad. I offered the guy $1800 for it and he took it. Pretty stoked so far! 8D
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Feb 19, 2015 21:04
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Remains Unseen posted:The actual price is $2000. Holy gently caress! Don't these things go for like 40k in good condition? vvv Oh whoops, I was thinking of the older model. revmoo fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Feb 19, 2015 |
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Feb 19, 2015 21:44
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revmoo posted:Holy gently caress! Don't these things go for like 40k in good condition? Id be surprised if that's true. Pretty much any malaise-era American iron can be had in good condition for cheap, unless something has changed and they've all sold to the demo-derby. I was going to say the price in the OP sounded high, but $1800 is a good deal. Where are the pictures of your new gas-powered couch?
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Feb 19, 2015 22:47
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I'd be a bit worried about the one cylinder not firing. Hopefully it's just an ignition problem and a tune-up will fix it. Worst case, though, the 400M is pretty common in the junkyard. Also, IIRC, it uses the same bolt pattern as the big block.  But, if you're in a place where you have to smog it, obviously that complicates things. Won't pass smog with a dead cylinder, probably.
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Feb 20, 2015 09:53
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Raluek posted:I'd be a bit worried about the one cylinder not firing. Hopefully it's just an ignition problem and a tune-up will fix it. Worst case, though, the 400M is pretty common in the junkyard. Also, IIRC, it uses the same bolt pattern as the big block. the ignition is dead loving simple though, and cheap to fix. Upgrading the whole system from distributor to plug is under $500. I can get 12.5mpg highway with my 73, that's the 460/C6/2.73 economy gears. Most of that $3000 left over is probably going into the tank.
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Feb 20, 2015 10:20
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Powershift posted:the ignition is dead loving simple though, and cheap to fix. Upgrading the whole system from distributor to plug is under $500. Yeah sure, but I mean I hope it's just an ignition thing and not like, a hole in a piston or a coked up valve that is stuck open. With an unknown car that's been looked at for no more than 30 minutes, and an absentee PO, it could be anything. Completely unknown quantity.
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Feb 20, 2015 10:25
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Holy crap, 1800?! Yeah, you basically stole that thing. I wouldn't worry too much about the titling, it sounds about as legit as most pre-1980 vehicles are, the VINs on those are always a little wonky because they hadn't standardized them yet. Hopefully it is just a crummy spark plug, wire, or maybe a pushrod or rocker not set up properly that is causing that cylinder to not fire.
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Feb 20, 2015 10:35
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Raluek posted:Yeah sure, but I mean I hope it's just an ignition thing and not like, a hole in a piston or a coked up valve that is stuck open. With an unknown car that's been looked at for no more than 30 minutes, and an absentee PO, it could be anything. Completely unknown quantity. If it was a hole in the piston or a bent rod, the PPI would mention oil that smells like gas, massive blowby, or an engine trying to escape. Even then it's a small block ford, about as close to "fix with hammer" as you can get. My car did 5000 miles in 30+ years, when i got it everything leaked. After new synthetic fluids and a little exercise, all of them stopped except the front of the transmission. Then again, somebody went through it quite a bit before i got it. it had all new vacuum lines, a new fuel pump, new coolant hoses. $1800 is a good price, with the fuel economy these things get, they really don't command a high dollar. There is some stuff that you won't be able to find, but nothing too major. rockauto has a surprising amount of parts for these things. The only thing i've looked for but been unable to find are parts for the remote mirror adjustment mechanism. It's a series of pull cables and such. I would imagine if i really gave a poo poo, it wouldn't be too replace with clutch cable from a motorcycle. is it this car? http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/4897076692.html If so, the power window likely isn't off the rail, it probably ate the plastic planetary in the mechanism. It's a $30 part for the gear, or $35 for the entire motor with the gear on it. it's just a pain in the rear end to replace. The engine is cheap and simple, the transmission is cheap and simple, the diff is indestructible. Parts are cheap and rockauto has pretty much everything. It's just gonna drink a lot of gas.
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Feb 20, 2015 10:52
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IIRC it does use the same bolt pattern as the 460. It's an odd motor family; it's technically a small block, but uses the big block bolt pattern. I think. It's been almost 20 years since I owned a 351M/400. Slap new plugs, a new distributor cap and rotor, and new plug wires on it. If it's still missing, do a compression test, but it'll probably come up with low to no compression on that cylinder if the basics don't fix it. The 400 was very common in larger 78-82 Fords (an F series pickup would be an easy donor). You'll have to decode the VIN on the donor though, as the 351 and 400 look pretty much identical externally. Wheel bearings are incredibly easy on these - repacking them is generally done when you do the front brakes anyway, and they should just pop right out of the rotors (once the rotors are removed) - if they don't hang up on the spindle during rotor removal. If they do, you just saved a step. Just make sure the spindles aren't scored or blued (as in turning blue from heat damage); if they are, they should be replaced. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 20, 2015 10:57
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Congratulations on your sweet new (to you) land yacht, OP! Post some pictures, I have a thing for old malaise era barges 
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Feb 20, 2015 12:45
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It's got a Cartier clock?? Ladies and gentlemen...this is class without speed.
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Feb 20, 2015 19:24
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angryhampster posted:It's got a Cartier clock?? When you have that much class, speed is not required.
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Feb 20, 2015 19:27
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This thread is missing a shitload of pictures.
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Feb 20, 2015 20:47
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I didn't get a chance to take any pics yet, but here's the ad: http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/4897076692.html  Edit: beaten, haha. Remains Unseen fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 04:40
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Yep it's got the Cartier clock! Let me take some pics tomorrow, I've been pretty busy at work. Edit: Thanks everyone for all the advice on everything so far! Remains Unseen fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 04:41
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Holy gently caress, that's AMAZING. Edit in case the ad gets taken down:      boxen fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 05:09
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The paint looks a little tired, but that interior is loving PRISTINE. Jesus. Well done.
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Feb 21, 2015 05:21
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 My F-150 had that exact steering wheel, except with a Ford logo instead. loving nice car, someone took very good care of it by the looks of it. And I bet the paint can be brought back to decent shape; meatpimp would be the one to ask about that. With the a/c belt off, I'm betting it has a bad compressor. But how often do you need a/c in Seattle?
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Feb 21, 2015 06:49
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haha that fucker probably has a york compressor. put a new clutch on it and change the oil that is some hot 3 tons of sex.
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Feb 21, 2015 06:51
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Enjoy your slab.
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Feb 21, 2015 06:58
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There's more steel there than at the pdm yard in sparks. Good work, and we're all a bit jealous.
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Feb 21, 2015 07:16
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That thing needs some Daytons and switches, stat.
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Feb 21, 2015 07:40
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boxen posted:Holy gently caress, that's AMAZING. 
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Feb 21, 2015 14:54
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I love american luxo-barges, great purchase! It always amazes me at how the gas crisis destroyed engines in the 70s/80s though. That Lincoln has a 6.6l V8 that puts out ~160hp. Just crazy when you consider we've got 1.6l 4cyl that do the same these days, hah.
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Feb 21, 2015 14:58
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Nice find. I like these. I am probably going to make a DTS or XTS my next commuter car.
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Feb 21, 2015 15:11
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Git Mah Belt Son posted:I love american luxo-barges, great purchase! It always amazes me at how the gas crisis destroyed engines in the 70s/80s though. That Lincoln has a 6.6l V8 that puts out ~160hp. Just crazy when you consider we've got 1.6l 4cyl that do the same these days, hah. That's something like 24hp her liter. Disgraceful. drat the malaise-era smog engines were woeful.
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Feb 21, 2015 23:47
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Between the regulations and sketchy US gas at the time, even european cars that came over were gutted. the 450SEL 6.9 was only 250hp/360ft/lbs in the US. that was a high tech SOC fuel injected engine with electronic ignition. The towncar's 160hp/315ft/lbs wasn't too far off the norm. with 315 ft/lbs, you won't be winning any races, but you can travel faster than traffic if you feel like it.
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Feb 22, 2015 00:06
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Vanagoon posted:That's something like 24hp her liter. Disgraceful. They still were reasonably torquey - for the time anyway. I think that Lincoln is around 300 - 310ft lbs. (edit: 315 I guess!) The 84 Corvette I used to have was a nose-bleeding 205hp from a 5.7l. The car was still mildly entertaining since it had ~300ft lbs in a 3200 pound car.
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Feb 22, 2015 01:58
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At least you'll never be homeless with that monster.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:00
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Git Mah Belt Son posted:They still were reasonably torquey - for the time anyway. I think that Lincoln is around 300 - 310ft lbs. (edit: 315 I guess!) They're so under stressed that they will also generally run forever as long as you give them basic care.
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Feb 22, 2015 02:03
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iwentdoodie posted:They're so under stressed that they will also generally run forever as long as you give them basic care. As long as you could keep the carb in tune enough not to wash the cylinder walls down with fuel and gently caress the bores, you bet. Until the pellet cats caught fire that is.
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Feb 22, 2015 08:58
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I had no idea the original Laserdisc players were top loaders (like the oldschool VCRs). The ones I've seen always had a (loving massive) tray. iwentdoodie posted:They're so under stressed that they will also generally run forever as long as you give them basic care. Even when neglected to hell, the 351M/400 runs forever as long as you keep oil in it. I ran mine dry several times (rear main seal was basically missing) when it got to where it lost a quart every day I drove it. When I drove from El Paso to DFW during a move, I bought a case of 60W oil, and used 7 quarts. Even with straight 60W oil in it, it had about 5 PSI and a bit of a knock at idle (according to the aftermarket oil pressure gauge I put in). Highway speeds saw about 20-30 PSI once it was hot; when it was cold the gauge would be pegged as high as it could go (90 or 120 PSI, whatever the 90s mechanical Sunpro triple gauge setup could show). If I actually used 10W30, I would only see about 10-15 PSI at highway speeds once it was good and warm, and nothing at idle (low enough that the oil light would be lit steady at idle). One hell of a tired engine, but the only time it ever left me stranded was when the DuraSpark II (electronic ignition module) failed. It also had death wobble that I never could track down, but only while braking from highway speeds. It only smoked when it'd been sitting overnight (so I assume the valve guides were toast), but it had an actual steady drip/stream (depending on the weight of oil I was using) from the rear main seal while running. It also went through a few starters every winter, but I blame that more on the 60W oil I was running (thickest oil I could find at the time). Even with a fresh battery, on really cold days I'd still have to jump it to even get it to think about turning over. Once the transmission lost reverse, it got parked, and some painters offered my parents $500 for it after being told it was a fan of knock knock jokes, had a nearly dead transmission (you had to take your foot off the gas on the 1-2 shift, otherwise it acted like it was in neutral), and had carb issues. Body and interior were in good shape, mechanically (except for the rear end) it was trash. I suspect the odometer had rolled over at least twice. the tl;dr is that boat anchor of an engine/transmission combo will take a ton of abuse. And you can always do an LSx/4L80-E swap if you want modern power, mileage, and reliability (I don't think I'd do a 4L60-E swap on something that heavy). Yeah I know, GM in a Ford, but modern GM ECUs are incredibly versatile. Your mileage would go up significantly, and you'd be roughly doubling your horsepower (and getting a good bump in torque). Of course, that's not really something to think about unless the 400 starts showing serious issues, and it's something you'd have to tackle yourself (the hardest part would be fabricating motor mounts and getting the driveshaft cut down a bit, IMO - the electrical part is pretty easy if you get a complete engine/ECU/harness from an earlier LSx with a cable throttle body). randomidiot fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Feb 22, 2015 |
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Feb 22, 2015 09:18
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Goddamn, that is a sweet-rear end ride. The interior looks mint, and that color combo is nice compared to the super-dated brown/red/orange poo poo you sometimes see on cars of that vintage. Those seats look supremely comfy.some texas redneck posted:I had no idea the original Laserdisc players were top loaders (like the oldschool VCRs). The ones I've seen always had a (loving massive) tray. Oh yeah, I remember I had to clean up one of those back when I was at a radio/TV store workshop (back when those still existed). Gigantic tray with indentations for Laserdisc, CD, mini CD and a couple more I have no idea what were. We sold it along with a set of speakers and a karaoke amp+mics and a bunch of lovely 80s karaoke LDs to some proto-hipster type. I think most physical media started out with top-loading players. Cassette tape, CD, Minidisc, Laserdisc, video tape. Plenty of top-loading players to be found.
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Mar 3, 2015 15:28
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I almost bought a Viceroy hearse that was based off of these cars. It's pretty much the only 'shoulda bought that car' regret that I still have.
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Mar 11, 2015 22:12
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:06 |
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Hi folks, Thanks for all the well wishes.  Sorry for the delay, I've been sick the past few weeks and then lost my job. (No worries though, I have a few leads) Took the car into the shop to diagnose the misfire. The shop stated that two things were needed: 1. Carb adjust. (apparently the carb hadn't been adjusted since it left the factory!) 2. Tune up. I got the carb adjusted for $200 and it runs much better now. It still has this hesistation when starting from idle, but the shop told me that the tune up should fix that. Shop also told me that the LF power window regulator is bad. They told me none are available but a rebuild might be possible. I do have a friend with a machine shop so I could get any gears remade as needed. Also looking on ebay. Measured the MPG and it's currently getting around 8. I'm guessing that number should go up once I get the tune up and maybe some low rolling resistance tires. Let me take some pics tomorrow!
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Mar 19, 2015 06:35
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