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FinalGamer posted:Isn't there something about a crossbow being kinda bad for short range due to needing the velocity when going through air in order to make it more deadly? Like I dunno, I'm just seeing a guy try to shoot an arrow point blank and having no distance to let it ramp up its lethal point straight into a guy's face enough. This is p dumb. Like, do you think crossbow bolts continue to accelerate after they leave the bow? Or bullets? Do you think cars accelerate better after you take your foot off the gas?
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Feb 28, 2015 21:24
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There IS a reason that bows and crossbows are less effective at close range, but only if you miss - in the time it takes you to reload the weapon, your opponent has time to get in close and attack you. Crossbows that can hold multiple bolts and reload automatically would mitigate that, but I have no idea whether those actually exist. I'm pretty sure there's no way to make a bow do that, and even if the crossbow does, it would still require re-drawing the string, which can be done quickly but not instantly. As long as you can be ready to fire again before your opponent closes the gap, closer is better. I think the projectile DOES increase in speed, and therefore impact force, over the time the string pulls taut, so stopping it before it's left the bow might reduce its effect, but you couldn't really do that by putting your hand in front of it. Weaponized arrows come to very sharp points, so even at slow speed, it would penetrate your flesh easily enough and likely bone as well unless you caught it really quickly. If it misses the bone - well, you probably didn't need that hand anymore.
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Feb 28, 2015 21:55
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Nidoking posted:There IS a reason that bows and crossbows are less effective at close range, but only if you miss - in the time it takes you to reload the weapon, your opponent has time to get in close and attack you. Crossbows that can hold multiple bolts and reload automatically would mitigate that, but I have no idea whether those actually exist. You might be surprised to learn that the repeating crossbow has been around for quite a bit, and a few folks have build modern functioning examples to prove that they are quite capable weapons (if a bit bulky). 
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Feb 28, 2015 22:59
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rabiddeity posted:You might be surprised to learn that the repeating crossbow has been around for quite a bit, and a few folks have build modern functioning examples to prove that they are quite capable weapons (if a bit bulky). Yeah, they were in Van Helsing, I remember those. I was hoping that Youtube like was going to be a link to that scene in the movie.
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Feb 28, 2015 23:08
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Leavemywife posted:Yeah, they were in Van Helsing, I remember those. I'm guessing that Van Helsing is not necessarily a great example of a historically accurate movie.
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Feb 28, 2015 23:16
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Marle/Lucca smacking something up close is almost purely cosmetic. The most benefit you can derive from it is knowing when they get a critical hit since their critical hits are always shots It is also a nod to realism since at the ranges they do that (about one-person away) it would be more beneficial to go to melee rather than shoot because of reload times. At least it's not like original CoD where you want to keep things at range because two melee hits will kill you and the enemies melee like a chainsaw.
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Feb 28, 2015 23:25
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ultrafilter posted:I'm guessing that Van Helsing is not necessarily a great example of a historically accurate movie. I refuse to believe this. 
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Feb 28, 2015 23:25
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Leavemywife posted:So, Nuvan, the wonderful poster he is, linked me to a fantastic music thingy on Youtube, where Chrono Trigger tracks were done with a metal flair. The guy's full name is Eric Calderone, he does a whole bunch of video game covers.
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Feb 28, 2015 23:48
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ultrafilter posted:I'm guessing that Van Helsing is not necessarily a great example of a historically accurate movie. The one from Berserk is much more realistic. None of that gas-powered silliness. 
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Mar 1, 2015 00:51
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I never actually beat this game....as I only played the PS1 Port, and I got sick of the loading times. Every fight took a good minute to start up.
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Mar 1, 2015 01:33
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Kalenn Istarion posted:This is p dumb. Like, do you think crossbow bolts continue to accelerate after they leave the bow? Or bullets? Do you think cars accelerate better after you take your foot off the gas? Fister Roboto posted:Uh Nidoking posted:You're probably thinking about blocking a gun barrel. The closest equivalent for a bow of any kind would probably be if someone has their hand on the actual projectile and can hold it in place to prevent the string from snapping taut. The same pressure will still be there, though, and it'll move with just as much force if it moves at all. Was nice to be educated about stuff and all, I was curious to ask since I had to wonder why well, Marle didn't even bother shooting up close-range but look at me trying to wonder the motivations of videogame sprites. I guess I should have just realised the whole "reloading is a bitch at close-range" someone said which is really obvious now I think about it
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Mar 1, 2015 04:25
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FinalGamer posted:Wow this is p rude, do you talk like that to all the students in your physics class? Cuz I was just asking something out of curiosity because I took biology instead. You need to slow down.
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Mar 1, 2015 04:32
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Theoretically, if there was a strong enough tailwind and the person was magnetically charged opposite of the bolt and it was toward a gravity well with no friction, then it would presumable speed up after... Help us, Leave. You're our only hope... 
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Mar 1, 2015 05:37
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Presumably they also build their crossbows out of unobtainium, because giving someone a hard smack with one would normally stand a good chance of ruining the thing. Fortunately, indestructible/maintenance-free equipment is a common perk of living in a videogame world. Just don't try this at home, kids! So I never got very far in this game (the next update will probably overtake where I left off) but Lucca and her dad kinda make me think of unusually articulate and well-mannered 40K orks. Like, they're constantly cobbling poo poo together, they don't seem to really understand how (or even if) it's supposed to work, they're cheerfully oblivious to any hazards... I realize they're pretty clearly mad scientist archetypes (with a dash of vaudeville), I just like the idea of cleverly disguised orks in the game. Because I'm like that. Really looking forward to the LP, Leave! There are other CT Let's Plays on the archive, but I could never get into them. I've always enjoyed your style, though, so keep up the good work!
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Mar 1, 2015 06:41
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This LP reminds me that my low level game save file is still hanging in limbo, possibly never to be cleared, in an endgame sidequest dungeon.  Some old-timey designs of crossbows had considerable weight to them that would make butting effective -- at the cost of potentially damaging the weapon. But many types were as simple as possible; the weapon was designed such that an unskilled operator (such as in the hands of militiamen or peasants so that they too could contribute to a war effort) could handle it to some effect, and the best way to do that is to keep weight down, which would render butting useless. Considering spoilers that have been foreshadowed already, Marle's weapon is probably specially-made to endure abuse and it conjures images of a crossbow-rifle hybrid-thing. A rifle typically has a good, weight-y feel, so surely butting with a rifle is effective in close quarters rather than trying to maneuver the barrel around to shoot the target instead. Lucca, an obvious future party member and fellow ranged-weapon user, does something similar, but...it'll happen soon enough so I'm going to avoid a painfully minor spoiler by not just saying it. As for the physics-storm, the propellant is a string that flings the projectile. There's no way it could conceivably have enough power for the projectile to continue accelerating as it leaves the "barrel" of the weapon. Now, I've heard that something like that misconception above can happen with long-range sniper rifles, where the projectile is propelled with such force that it hasn't yet achieved its maximum speed and continues to accelerate for a distance after it leaves the barrel. I can understand some of the confusion there, but not only would that phenomenon be applicable to firearms and not a crossbow/bowgun, I'm also not an expert and couldn't say with 100% certainty that this is what happens.
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Mar 1, 2015 07:41
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EggsAisle posted:Presumably they also build their crossbows out of unobtainium, because giving someone a hard smack with one would normally stand a good chance of ruining the thing. Fortunately, indestructible/maintenance-free equipment is a common perk of living in a videogame world. Just don't try this at home, kids! Medieval crossbow stocks were about as sturdy as modern rifle stocks, for what that's worth. Seiren posted:Now, I've heard that something like that misconception above can happen with long-range sniper rifles, where the projectile is propelled with such force that it hasn't yet achieved its maximum speed and continues to accelerate for a distance after it leaves the barrel. The expanding powder gasses cease to provide any force to the projectile once it leaves the barrel, and it will only decelerate from that point. There are no ballistic firearms for which this is not the case. The gyrojet family used actual rocket-powered projectiles, which did need a certain amount of time/distance to reach useful velocity, and that is about the only place I can possibly think of where you could get that idea. ArcMage fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 10:38
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It could work if the propellant (gunpowder, usually) within the bullet continued to burn after it left the barrel, thus providing a continued propulsion force. Otherwise, as Newton said, without force, there can be no acceleration, and the only forces acting on a projectile after it's been launched are gravity and air resistance. And I imagine it would be pretty difficult if not impossible to aim the shot if the bullet propelled itself afterward - that would unpredictably alter its path, especially if the aerodynamics were anything less than perfect and the bullet spun at all other than around the axis of travel. A tiny bit of lateral force would throw it way off course, and I think that would work as a negative feedback loop - the error would compound.
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Mar 1, 2015 10:55
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I suppose if you arced your shot, the velocity on the downward pull, due to gravity, would increase. But you'd have to be pretty drat far (and up high) to arc a crossbow shot, and you could more than likely say goodbye to any accuracy. Crossbows are more for quick, silent killing from a (shorter than bow) distance. In fact, they're basically best for close-range shooting, thus you'd prefer your target to be in a closer range. There were rather looked down on a bit due to their ease of use (in comparison to bows) meaning any old jack could pick it up and fire it, and they are a lot easier to aim than an actual bow. But yeah, while they may provide more initial thrust than a bow (dependant on the type of bow, of course, and how well the archer using it is) they don't accelerate whilst in flight. The opposite, in fact. (Uh, I'm talking medieval tech version here, not modern stuff. Modern stuff has a lot of tech put into it to make it more reliable than the older stuff was.) silversatyr fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 11:16
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FinalGamer posted:Wow this is p rude, do you talk like that to all the students in your physics class? Cuz I was just asking something out of curiosity because I took biology instead. No, because this is a comedy forum and none of them ever asked me such a silly question. However, I would often teach them new ideas by asking them to consider analogous processes rather than explicitly telling them the right answer, as its a good habit to get into before making oneself look silly on an Internet forum. Dooky Dingo posted:Theoretically, if there was a strong enough tailwind and the person was magnetically charged opposite of the bolt and it was toward a gravity well with no friction, then it would presumable speed up after... See this guy would have been a favoured student Nidoking posted:It could work if the propellant (gunpowder, usually) within the bullet continued to burn after it left the barrel, thus providing a continued propulsion force. Otherwise, as Newton said, without force, there can be no acceleration, and the only forces acting on a projectile after it's been launched are gravity and air resistance. And I imagine it would be pretty difficult if not impossible to aim the shot if the bullet propelled itself afterward - that would unpredictably alter its path, especially if the aerodynamics were anything less than perfect and the bullet spun at all other than around the axis of travel. A tiny bit of lateral force would throw it way off course, and I think that would work as a negative feedback loop - the error would compound. No, it couldn't. The propellant only propels the bullet because it's constrained by the barrel and the rapidly expanding gas has nowhere else to go. The minute it's not constrained by the barrel it takes the easier path of blowing around the bullet and provides no further propulsion. As ArcMage said the only way it would work was if there was propellant (like a rocket engine) actually attached to the projectile, which gunpowder typically is not.
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Mar 1, 2015 17:09
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Kalenn Istarion posted:See this guy would have been a favoured student Don't tell him, but Dooky Dingo is one of my favorites. And, I suppose, I'll have an update later today. Just to switch the subject from crossbow mechanics and why you shouldn't hit someone with them up close. Or why you should.
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Mar 1, 2015 17:22
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Leavemywife posted:I've the rhyming capabilities of a deaf howler monkey. If it makes you feel any better, my rhyming capabilities are probably worse than that. This just reminds me I was doing a run through on the DS version about several months ago, but never finished. I was actually about to do some of the DS extras, but seeing some of the comments on the thread have made me rethink this. Well, I guess that's one less thing for me to do then.
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Mar 1, 2015 17:33
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Update Three: Where The Hell Are We? Welcome back! Last time, on Chrono Trigger, we saw Marle go into the Warp and we bravely followed her. Today, we're going to figure out just where we are, so let's bounce.   We had been in the Truce Canyon. Hmm. And the music on the overworld here is loving awesome. For an alternate version, click me!  If you'll recall, the town where Chrono lives was called Truce, but looked nothing like this. Where's his house?  Inside the Inn, we're berated for not knowing where we are.  Wait, the Fiendlord? We've heard something about that, during the Fair.  Actually, no, we didn't.  Perhaps in a manner of speaking. Let's talk to some of the other people here.  Mummery? From freedictonary.com: "mum•mer•y (ˈmʌm ə ri) n., pl. -mer•ies. 1. a performance by mummers. 2. any absurd, false, or ostentatious performance or ceremony. " Maybe not exactly the best term, but it works. Basically, there isn't time around here for that kind of poo poo.  Oh, she's one of those adventurous queens. But what would she be doing where we landed?  One thing I love about this game is that when you're talking to most people, you can move around while their text boxes are on screen. You'll see more than one shot where I'm running around like a fool    That's the only route there? We don't have boats? Does nobody know how to swim? If you look, you can see someone new has walked into the Inn.  Remember this guy; we'll see him a few more times during our journey. We'll buy him a drink. $10 isn't that much.  : Another mug! : Well then, a promise is a promise! It's about the missing Queen. My travels have taken me to the Cathedral in the western wood, and there's something most peculiar about that place. It's only a hunch, but -- Perhaps they were, but video games have taught me to distrust most organized religions. There's usually a Pope or something wanting to take over or something. Or else they're all dicks.   We won't stay, but we will run upstairs to see what we can loot.  There's just one thing of interest in here.  A mysterious force seals it shut. We'll be back for this later. Much later.  Now it's time for the part where we barge into people's homes and interrogate them about whatever the silent protagonist asks about.  This isn't the only time we'll see Taban's sprite reused. Hell, we already saw it at the Fair; ol' Flattop here is rather popular.  ...I've got a theory on why we're here, and perhaps this is more than just a reuse of the Taban sprite.   Well, folks, who among you has put it together? Who knows where we are?  I've got in good authority that it won't be very much longer.  This is the Market, and it's southwest of the house we were just at and north of the other Residence.  This guy has good (if "no poo poo") advice for you, which pops up in a lot of RPGs.  And this fucker is pushy that we spend some of our hard earned cash.  Chrono gets some new duds and a new sword. I shouldn't have bought the armor (I usually never do), but too late now. Besides, it feels good to buy new stuff.  Let's get to the meat of this update.  It's not the forest, even though we'll spend some time here. The forest isn't a proper dungeon, but it's got some goodies hidden around and some new enemies.  Right of the entrance, we encounter a palette swapped Imp already. And in Chrono Trigger, there aren't random encounters. They're initiated by either running into the enemy or stepping on the proper spot on the map; if you know where you're going and do it right, you can avoid most of the fights in this game. And running around a few fights here and there won't really hurt you in the long run; the game isn't very difficult and it fairly generous with good stuff.  I, however, fight as much as I can. Green Imps here are nothing to write home about, with 32 HP, and they drop 4 exp. They have the same kick the Blue Imps do, and can kick rocks at you for small damage. If your attack doesn't kill them, they'll counter with a small damage kick.  Down and right from that, we find two shinies! However, one of these is a trap.  By going to this one, you trigger another encounter.  Two of these guys pop out of the ground.  But, that's not all! Two Green Imps come over and jump on up.  It's like the Mega-Zord, except they suck and don't fight giant monsters. They've got 30 HP and nothing to set them apart, other than them being two enemies working together. I don't remember any of their attacks, nor did I see any.  The other rock has this treasure for us to enjoy. Strength Capsules (called Tabs in the SNES version) raise a character's Strength by one point when used.  See? A little blue 1 and Chrono is that much stronger. He'll deal a touch more damage now. Most characters benefit from more Strength, but some, like Marle, don't.  While I'm here in the menu, Chrono has another Tech available to learn, but it'll be a while before we learn it. It's also Light elemental, and can hit multiple enemies at once.  And you'll notice that we're no longer listed in the Present. We're now in the Middle Ages.   North of the Strength Capsule is a trapped bush. Three Roundillos pop out and are quickly sent to their graves.   A monster pops out of this bush, too, but it's not a fight.  It runs off, dropping a Shelter for us. At save points and on the world map, we can use one of these to restore our party to full HP and MP.  Chrono gains one level here from the various fights. I also end up using a Potion, since there's quite a few enemies around here if you're trying to get them all for their delicious exp.  South of that, we wind up to the east of the entrance. We could have gone this way to begin with, to take a bit of a shortcut through the forest, but then we miss out on the Strength Capsule that way.  Blue Eagles, which we saw in Truce Canyon, but not as fightable enemies, have 16 HP and can potentially drop Panaceas.  There's a lot of impressive sprite work in this game, and it really shows; when you get this shot of Chrono critting, you actually see him from a different angle.  North of the Blue Eaglets is the exit to this place. But there's a little more looking around to do before we hit the castle.   Granted, it's about as interesting as toenail clippings right now, but it's still there.  For now, let's head in here. I'm sure nothing bad will happen.  Well, that didn't take long.  "No, please, Toriyama just doesn't know how to dress men!"  In the SNES version, he gives you the advice to go back and play with your stamp collection. He also calls you "son".  I'll only take so much more of this, you--  Uh-oh. Mom noticed us fighting! Act casual!    Is it the hair that's longer than his arms? I bet it's that.   Now that's what I'm talkin' about.  Hey, wait a second, isn't there something familiar about this Queen?  Nah, it can't be. I must be imagining things.   Personally, it's hard for me to dislike someone just doing their job.   I'd bet not even the Queen could save us if we ended up in hot water with the King.  So let's just strut on in there. Surely, we can impress the King with our bravado.  Quick, show of hands, who thinks this guy is going to be a dick?  The Chancellor just walks away from us, but this guy is cool. If we need a free heal, we can go rest in the Knights' Quarters.    Uh, didn't they find her in Truce Canyon? I'm pretty sure we didn't see her there, at all, and we've had no other interactions with her outside of where she got the guards off our backs.  Not that I don't appreciate the offer, King Guardia XXI, but I've got a Queen to see about a horse. Or something. We're going to see the Queen, is what I'm saying.   We have to trudge up a shitload of stairs to reach where the Queen stays. It makes sense, kind of, since we can see the size of the castle before we enter. It's a nice touch, making the castle seem as big inside as it does outside.  There's a treasure chest there, but we just got here. I don't feel comfortable stealing from the castle quite yet.  Another set of steps (not shown) and we're at the top.  We've still got a layer of security to go through, despite the Queen having given us permission to be here. Another nice touch, since it actually makes it seem like she's a valued Queen and not just some crazy woman in a dress.    Well, some women just age well. They've got repertoires of creams, pills, washes, masks, and blood sacrifices to keep them looking youthful.  I believe my final point above would cover that, ma'am.  And, yeah, I didn't talk to the other maid. I also don't remember what she says.  I'm not going to use the here, despite the temptation. Besides, I know you're all not reading what's written here and are just thinking it. And those two clear out, surely to go gossip about what's (or who's) going down in the Queen's chambers.  And so we do.  I doubted you fooled anyone, Marle.  Oops, I guess I spoiled it in my last comment. But, hey, it's Marle! zomg  Somebody had to get the plot rolling; you did your part by disappearing and Chrono did his.   Le gasp! It's not going to be as easy as it appears!?    Light begins shooting out of Marle and Chrono ineffectually raises his hands, trying to help. He doesn't know what to do here. He's desperate to help in any way.  ...Oh, poo poo, that wasn't good. Leave fucked around with this message at 03:56 on May 25, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 20:23
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Leavemywife posted:
It looks like he's jumping with joy at the thought of Marle getting disappeared.
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Mar 1, 2015 21:08
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Kalenn Istarion posted:No, because this is a comedy forum and none of them ever asked me such a silly question. However, I would often teach them new ideas by asking them to consider analogous processes rather than explicitly telling them the right answer, as its a good habit to get into before making oneself look silly on an Internet forum. Again, didn't explain myself so my bad, HEY NEW UPDATE! I really like how they handle encounters in this game, they're not random but they are sometimes hidden so if you don't know where you're going you usually get ambushed by stepping in the "right" spot. It's a nice way of letting players decide when they return to an area on, whether they want to head TOWARDS the enemies for grinding, or AWAY from them just to move on.
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Mar 1, 2015 21:42
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It's a good thing our money is accepted in all time periods.
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Mar 1, 2015 21:54
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Boy I hope the captain of the guard also doesn't notice our sword when we end up going to trial or execution over this.
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Mar 1, 2015 22:31
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RareAcumen posted:Boy I hope the captain of the guard also doesn't notice our sword when we end up going to trial or execution over this. Who says anyone will ever figure it out before we're long gone?
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Mar 1, 2015 22:36
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Regalingualius posted:Who says anyone will ever figure it out before we're long gone? I'm just assuming that we won't because this game was made back in 95' back when that trope was still fresh.
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Mar 1, 2015 22:49
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I'm not sure how to feel about the brushed-up localization for this version. Kinda like the one for FF6 -- the new one is probably more thematically accurate, but the goofy SNES-era translations had some charm. For this, they've made the 600 AD people all sound like they came from a post-2006 FF game. But maybe they limit that to this era. Edit: Dang, all these different spoiler policies in different threads! Mazed fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 22:53
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Mazed posted:I'm not sure how to feel about the brushed-up localization for this version. Kinda like the one for FF6 -- the new one is probably more thematically accurate, but the goofy SNES-era translations had some charm. For this, they've made the 600 AD people all sound like they came from a post-2006 FF game. But maybe they limit that to this era. Hey, keep the Chrono Trigger spoilers in the FF7 thread where they belong! George fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 23:02
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George posted:Hey, keep the Chrono Trigger spoilers in the FF7 thread where they belong! Please do, yes. And folks, since I've asked more than once and I have the spoiler policy outlined in the OP, if you keep posting spoilers, even behind tags (which is also prohibited), I WILL lock the thread for a while. Leave fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Mar 1, 2015 |
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Mar 1, 2015 23:05
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Somehow your GIFs are pixel-crisp but your PNGs are a little blurry. Anything you can do about that?
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Mar 1, 2015 23:17
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All I've got to say is that Marle's lucky she got disappeared before the king came upstairs for some reunion lovin'. That'd have been all kinds of awkward.
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Mar 1, 2015 23:46
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sudonim posted:Somehow your GIFs are pixel-crisp but your PNGs are a little blurry. Anything you can do about that? my guess is that he does his gifs in a program that expands it by nearest neighbor but the pics one does by bicubic or something like that... But it is just a guess
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Mar 2, 2015 00:00
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Waterguy posted:my guess is that he does his gifs in a program that expands it by nearest neighbor but the pics one does by bicubic or something like that... I wonder if when I do the batch rename in Irfanview if I have it set to resize the shots and that's what's doing it. That's the only thing I can think of.
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Mar 2, 2015 00:03
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Another neat attention to detail thing is that the 'Current Age' popup on the map in this era originally appears as '???' until you talk to enough people to reasonably figure out when it is, and then it updates to 'Middle Ages.' Also a silent protagonist that says things/asks questions! So rare.  Mazed posted:I'm not sure how to feel about the brushed-up localization for this version. Kinda like the one for FF6 -- the new one is probably more thematically accurate, but the goofy SNES-era translations had some charm. For this, they've made the 600 AD people all sound like they came from a post-2006 FF game. But maybe they limit that to this era. Unfortunately Trigger has even less 'so goofy they're amazing' woolseyism's in it to keep compared to FF6. Overall I like it though simply because it's a bit more cohesive while still being thematic (proper use of 'mirth and mummery' etc.) overall. The middle ages are probably the most-changed though IIRC.
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Mar 2, 2015 00:56
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As best I recall, the original translation stuck with really goofy stereotypes. Regarding a fairly significant change, though: Does anyone know, whatever the word is in Japanese that they translated as "Mystics" earlier, but they're now just calling the "Fiendlord's army"? Since we're back in the 90s, I'm remembering an anime called Slayers that called the monstrous baddies ("mazoku") something to the effect of either "evil race" or "magic race" but they just changed to "monsters" in some translations, "demons" in others. Leavemywife posted:Please do, yes. Spoiler killed!
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Mar 2, 2015 01:05
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I'm betting it's Mazoku here too. The Fiendlord is a proper title, which would make his subjects Fiends. Which makes a bit more sense than 'Mystics' considering what they're made of. It's way better translated than the original where there was a lot of proper noun mis-use going on 
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Mar 2, 2015 01:39
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At least the phrasing used in this translation makes it really apparent you're in another time period. The guards teasing you about a stamp collection in the SNES version always seemed weird to me, not to mention being a lame joke in any time.
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Mar 2, 2015 01:53
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"Fiendlord" just doesn't have the same ring to it as "Magus," but other than that I really like this new translation so far.
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Mar 2, 2015 01:54
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