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grassy gnoll posted:Yes, you should run a game of Cold City. Cold City is the best setting with the worst rules, specifically the idiotic national-stereotype rules. I'd love to run a game with the core setting/premise, but with the system gutted and replaced with something that doesn't make me grind my teeth.
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Mar 3, 2015 16:59
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My fav. lazzi is def. the Lazzo of the List, where a German Gunlugger reads off his list of guns but keeps mispronouncing them.
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Mar 3, 2015 17:01
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palecur posted:Cold City is the best setting with the worst rules, specifically the idiotic national-stereotype rules. I'd love to run a game with the core setting/premise, but with the system gutted and replaced with something that doesn't make me grind my teeth. Mash it up with Night's Black Agents, use the rules from that, should work pretty well.
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Mar 3, 2015 17:05
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MadScientistWorking posted:Weirdly enough if you consider Apocalypse Engine games RPGs then D&D isn't the foundation. The cornerstone of those game are free form improv with completely new sets of jargon placed in which makes it less accessible than it should be. lol what AW's jargon is really easy to get the gist of, and there's only one real technical hurdle in the whole system, and even that is a matter of semantics (AUF vs SBF vs GA)
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Mar 3, 2015 17:07
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Mash it up with Night's Black Agents, use the rules from that, should work pretty well. I'll love you forever if you do this and I'm able to play it! 
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Mar 3, 2015 17:15
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*world games are good if you are a child or teenager playing for the first time but you can't take it seriously as an adult. *puffs on pipe sagely*
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Mar 3, 2015 17:44
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:*world games are good if you are a child or teenager playing for the first time but you can't take it seriously as an adult. *puffs on pipe sagely* Why?
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Mar 3, 2015 17:50
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Adult life is defined by restrictions and esoteric rules or something
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Mar 3, 2015 17:57
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Mr. Maltose posted:Why? lol don't talk to plutonis
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Mar 3, 2015 17:57
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Captain Foo posted:lol don't talk to plutonis Since it's March Madness I figure I'll be shithouse crazy and engage in regrettable behaviour.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:Has there ever been a public official that was known to play D&D? http://boingboing.net/2012/03/27/norways-new-minister-of-inte.html Also as far as I can tell technically any "officer" of a government is an "official" so yes, hello 
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Mar 3, 2015 18:06
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Wizards only keeps D&D around because they want to keep the copyright fresh. It does nothing for them other than get them video and computer game royalties and the profits from selling more novels about Drizzt Do'urden.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:08
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*world games are well designed but fundamentally cater to a different playstyle than chunkier more rules laden games. As a result the more entrenched group sees *worlds games as an assault on their pastime. Getting used to the idea that there is room in the rpg market for both story games and rules heavy games is hard for some people to grasp. Though it also isn't helped by people insisting that their type of game is inherently better than others. Those most guilty of this seem to be Pathfinder fans, retroclone fans, and *worlds fans.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:12
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Mr. Maltose posted:Why? The absolute simplicity is attractive for someone who can only afford to have two six sided dice at home which I assume are only entry-level gamers but it's too boring for a long run campaign unless the GM is really good. Also whoever said that adult life is restrictive: well turns out it is. Because that is society. Quoth 1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. Captain Foo posted:lol don't talk to plutonis This isn't YOSPOS... Use correct punctuation please.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:12
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PresidentBeard posted:*world games are well designed but fundamentally cater to a different playstyle than chunkier more rules laden games. As a result the more entrenched group sees *worlds games as an assault on their pastime. Getting used to the idea that there is room in the rpg market for both story games and rules heavy games is hard for some people to grasp. Though it also isn't helped by people insisting that their type of game is inherently better than others. Those most guilty of this seem to be Pathfinder fans, retroclone fans, and *worlds fans. To say nothing of people who like both types. Though I find I'm more about pbta 90% of the time.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:14
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PresidentBeard posted:*world games are well designed but fundamentally cater to a different playstyle than chunkier more rules laden games. As a result the more entrenched group sees *worlds games as an assault on their pastime. Getting used to the idea that there is room in the rpg market for both story games and rules heavy games is hard for some people to grasp. Though it also isn't helped by people insisting that their type of game is inherently better than others. Those most guilty of this seem to be Pathfinder fans, retroclone fans, and *worlds fans. I used to play D&D and then I didn't, drifted towards more rules-lite systems and then found AW, which has the best mix of rules, setting, and feel that works for what I want to get out of gaming, other people might not and that's fine. I always encourage people to check out aw though because why wouldn't you want more people doing things that you think are good+cool??
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Mar 3, 2015 18:15
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FMguru posted:I think Hasbro regards D&D as a potentially valuable nerd nostalgia brand, in much the same way that a largely-forgotten series of 1980s robot toys turned out to be the keystones of a multi-billion dollar movie franchise 25 years later. Keeping it around and in-print in a nerd nostalgia format (5e, plus those reprints of earlier corebooks and classic adventures) is probably the smart move. this is possible I guess, seems weird though. guess it doesn't cost them much
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Mar 3, 2015 18:15
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The only thing there isn't room for in this hobby is Pathfinder. I welcome good rules light games and good tactical roleplaying game experiences, but we don't need a new 600lb. gorilla clogging tables with broken rulesets. If you've had fun with pathfinder you probably did it by accident. edit: I played a campaign of pathfinder to level 5. My wizard was already negating entire encounters at level 1. (Thanks, grease!)
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Mar 3, 2015 18:22
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Impermanent posted:The only thing there isn't room for in this hobby is Pathfinder. I welcome good rules light games and good tactical roleplaying game experiences, but we don't need a new 600lb. gorilla clogging tables with broken rulesets. If you've had fun with pathfinder you probably did it by accident. why isn't there room for a game people want to play? There's a big difference between saying it's a poorly-designed game and that there's no place for it, one of those is a lot stronger than the other
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Mar 3, 2015 18:27
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FMguru posted:I think Hasbro regards D&D as a potentially valuable nerd nostalgia brand, in much the same way that a largely-forgotten series of 1980s robot toys turned out to be the keystones of a multi-billion dollar movie franchise 25 years later. Keeping it around and in-print in a nerd nostalgia format (5e, plus those reprints of earlier corebooks and classic adventures) is probably the smart move. Yeah, it's also the generic fantasy brand that you can slap on things and people will pick them up by brand recognition alone.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:29
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Yeah, love it or hate it "D&D style fantasy" is pretty much the universal RPG language. And as tired as I am with generic D&D-style fantasy, it is a very handy mental shortcut to start building off of.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:37
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Impermanent posted:Nah dude I do improv. IThere's a resemblance between that and *World games but you're kidding yourself if you think these pulpy games are closer to improv than they D&D. They are a refinement of the collaborative storygame concept but it's not like people take year and a half long courses on how to properly yes, and a cleric.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:51
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Captain Foo posted:why isn't there room for a game people want to play? There's a big difference between saying it's a poorly-designed game and that there's no place for it, one of those is a lot stronger than the other I think the net effect of Pathfinder and 5e D&D on the hobby is negative. (and my statement was a little hyperbolic on purpose) I'd explain more but work is hard today. The short version is that training people into thinking that fundamentally flawed rulesets (and damaging social views on the side of 5e) as the norm stifles innovation and growth in the hobby. Specifically, it makes people less welcoming of better ways of playing every type of game. It will likely take generations (within the player base, not in design, where we are already ahead) for us to get over ability scores, save-or-suck, and even roll-to-win, lose-to-do-nothing.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:51
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Impermanent posted:I think the net effect of Pathfinder and 5e D&D on the hobby is negative. (and my statement was a little hyperbolic on purpose) I'd explain more but work is hard today. The short version is that training people into thinking that fundamentally flawed rulesets (and damaging social views on the side of 5e) as the norm stifles innovation and growth in the hobby. Specifically, it makes people less welcoming of better ways of playing every type of game. It will likely take generations (within the player base, not in design, where we are already ahead) for us to get over ability scores, save-or-suck, and even roll-to-win, lose-to-do-nothing. that has a lot less to do with the game and more to do with the people playing it, though - people that are hostile to different paradigms (as opposed to unfamiliar) aren't going to want to play them anyway
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Mar 3, 2015 18:57
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What's really interesting is that I've been listening to the "Adventure Zone", the McElroy D&D 5e podcast, and even though I'm only on episode 3 it's really funny how the Wizard basically gets to do everything cool (freeze the monster, shoot magic missile and do damage with no attack roll, charm a monster into helping them, use prestidigitation to illuminate a hidden monster) and the Warrior gets to say "I attack" and roll a bunch of dice every time he tries to do anything vaguely interesting. D&D is back, baby!
Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 18:58
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Impermanent posted:I think the net effect of Pathfinder and 5e D&D on the hobby is negative. (and my statement was a little hyperbolic on purpose) I'd explain more but work is hard today. The short version is that training people into thinking that fundamentally flawed rulesets (and damaging social views on the side of 5e) as the norm stifles innovation and growth in the hobby. Specifically, it makes people less welcoming of better ways of playing every type of game. It will likely take generations (within the player base, not in design, where we are already ahead) for us to get over ability scores, save-or-suck, and even roll-to-win, lose-to-do-nothing. I read this review in the morning paper every single time a Transformers movie comes out but with a few words replaced here and there.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:59
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On a related note, my biggest problem with AW is that there doesn't seem to be any common pop-culture reference for the "fiction" that Baker has so tightly designed his game around. The three most commonly cited influences (Mad Max, Fallout, and Tank Girl) are so different that finding common ground can be difficult for players starting out. It's gritty like Fallout, but without the cheeky nostalgia. It's epic like Mad Max, but doesn't really support the "lone wanderer" aspect. It's gonzo like Tank Girl, but not cartoony.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:00
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Hey Ettin, can I still get in as a Breakfast Cult late backer? It's a paypal payment to InverseWorldGames at gmail.com, right?
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Mar 3, 2015 19:04
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Zurui posted:On a related note, my biggest problem with AW is that there doesn't seem to be any common pop-culture reference for the "fiction" that Baker has so tightly designed his game around. The three most commonly cited influences (Mad Max, Fallout, and Tank Girl) are so different that finding common ground can be difficult for players starting out. It's gritty like Fallout, but without the cheeky nostalgia. It's epic like Mad Max, but doesn't really support the "lone wanderer" aspect. It's gonzo like Tank Girl, but not cartoony. get out of here, stalker the real answer is that it is a hybrid, and the specific flavor of the game is malleable - it's something you have to work out with your players.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:05
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If you think of your apocalypse wold games as a logical extension of the metal gear universe everything becomes clear.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:07
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PresidentBeard posted:I read this review in the morning paper every single time a Transformers movie comes out but with a few words replaced here and there. That's because I'm writing those reviews.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:08
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Evil Mastermind posted:Yeah, love it or hate it "D&D style fantasy" is pretty much the universal RPG language. And as tired as I am with generic D&D-style fantasy, it is a very handy mental shortcut to start building off of. Welcome to tradgames, where our universal language is uncritical acceptance of conservative expansionist imperialism with a side of celebrating the Great Man theory of history. Some days I want to burn this hobby.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:12
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DigitalRaven posted:Welcome to tradgames, where our universal language is uncritical acceptance of conservative expansionist imperialism with a side of celebrating the Great Man theory of history. Dude, have you cracked a high school history textbook? Ever?
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Mar 3, 2015 19:14
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Zurui posted:Dude, have you cracked a high school history textbook? Ever? Not an American one.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:15
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I like mechanically simple games like the *Worlds but since I inevitably end up running it I get bored pretty quick because I usually don't get to interact with the game side of things very often. Too bad it is apparently my fate until I die, since my players are the laziest people on Earth and somehow unlearn FAE every week, let alone trying to get them to learn something like Wulin or Feng Shui 2.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:16
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DigitalRaven posted:Welcome to tradgames, where our universal language is uncritical acceptance of conservative expansionist imperialism with a side of celebrating the Great Man theory of history. Oh my sweet Lord I don't think anything can top this post.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:19
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We did it everyone! We managed to make the most Tradgames quote possible! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 3, 2015 19:19
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Captain Foo posted:why isn't there room for a game people want to play? There's a big difference between saying it's a poorly-designed game and that there's no place for it, one of those is a lot stronger than the other It is a poorly designed game, but a combination of identity politics, sunk cost fallacy, and the uniquely TRPG fallacy of games whose mechanics can never be reviewed critically because "the DM can throw out any rule that's bad" which causes the quality of the game to enter into this "well our table is having fun" quantum state is what pushes it into there's-no-place-for-it territory.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:20
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:The absolute simplicity is attractive for someone who can only afford to have two six sided dice at home which I assume are only entry-level gamers but it's too boring for a long run campaign unless the GM is really good. Also whoever said that adult life is restrictive: well turns out it is. Because that is society. Quoth 1 Corinthians 13:11 I really shouldn't bother replying to Plutonis. But. You're wrong on almost every point. First, anyone talking about "the absolute simplicity of Apocalypse World" doesn't have the first clue what they are talking about. If you want a system with absolute simplicity, pick something like FUDGE. Or even the simple binary resolution mechanics of D&D or WoD. Don't pick something with massively versatile outcomes, that exploits the nature of the bell curve, and that uses a class system to better effect than any other RPG I am aware of (in second place: BECMI - as far as I know Apocalypse World is the first decent innovation in class based RPGs since oD&D in 1974). The design is elegant and has yes-but resolution mechanics. Second, if you are relying on the system to provide the inspiration for long run campaigns you might as well be playing RISK. The only reason heavier systems do better here is because you spend more time not paying attention to what is going on and instead wrangling with your character sheet. Ultimately most long campaigns in my experience are like 50s Monster Of The Week shows, doing the same thing over and over and no one saying cut despite the cheesy Sfx and the fact we've seen this same plot at least two dozen times before. With combat being filler sections (and AW is ruthless at getting rid of filler). But Apocalypse World (and even more so Monsterhearts) provides inherent character arcs in a way few other games do (and none I am aware of prior to My Life With Master). In Vampire: the Masquerade you effectively don't have a character class. In oD&D if you are a fighter you are a fighter until you die or you retire and start leading a keep. Later versions of D&D take away the endgame and try to have you dungeon crawling forever. In Apocalypse World you have midseason advances with which you can literally change how your character approaches the world (this is even more pointed with Monsterhearts' Growing Up Moves). You have genuine character growth built into the rules of Apocalypse World. Which makes it much more of a character driven character arc-run game than a sitcom with a reset button. More like films than a syndicated TV show. And why do people compare it to improv? It isn't. The rules are actually very trad most of the time. What it has is excellent pacing. With improv RP there is a rhythm when you hand over to other players. Apocalypse World is designed such that every single roll the system calls for takes place at one of these natural handover points. This causes as little disruption in the flow of improv-RP as possible. And because of the non-binary resolution mechanics, it adds things other than a simple pass/fail outcome. Meaning that the mechanics not only minmally disrupt improv RP, they add richness, detail, and inspiration. But only where you would stop and hand over to another player. Getting that degree of pacing and variety in the resolution mechanics is not simple design either. But once again it is elegant. You might claim to have given up childish ways, but so does a teenager in the middle of painting their bedroom black.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:26
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neonchameleon posted:You might claim to have given up childish ways, but so does a teenager in the middle of painting their bedroom black.  DigitalRaven posted:Not an American one. Imagine the suffering of millions of people and centuries of complicated political changes described with the dispassionate interest and biased focus of a Forgotten Realms handbook. That's what it's like to learn history in the US. Don't blame the child, blame the parent.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:36
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