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The introduction of the glowing-eyed monster is actually legitimately disturbing. You can only make out the grossest of details, and it just looms over Raz.
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Mar 13, 2015 04:55
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Monkey Island references will always rule, no matter how dated!
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Mar 13, 2015 05:39
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It never occured to me to even try to get the cobweb duster this early. It's like most of the collection stuff is in isolation to other collection things, I kimd of saw finding it all as a fun challenge tangent to game completion and didn't really push it too hard, so seeing this kind of feels enlightening. Probably also part of why I never tried was because dowsing is the worst part of the game. It's not platforming, fighting, or interacting with characters, it really disrupts the flow of the game. I guess that this kind of shows some problems with the games design. Too many overworld collectables are "free" and don't require difficult platforming or inventive use of powers like the scavenger hunt items we can't get yet, and even if you collect everything not nailed down it won't let you reach 800 arrowheads just by playing naturally. If arrowheads weren't going to be earned from collectables, maybe they could have at least awarded them with some interesting mini games... something more interesting than, well, dowsing. Psychonauts still is very good with most of its systems. It's still pretty unique as a 3d collectathon platformer with strong writing, just some things seem like things that could be improved on with a sequel, imo. also it annoyed me that raz was kept with half a brain for so long, I seem to remember punching just about everything would give you free health.
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Mar 13, 2015 06:05
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Acne Rain posted:It never occured to me to even try to get the cobweb duster this early. It's like most of the collection stuff is in isolation to other collection things, I kimd of saw finding it all as a fun challenge tangent to game completion and didn't really push it too hard, so seeing this kind of feels enlightening. The game is designed so that you can kind of get your teeth into it at your own speed mostly, but at the same time it will kind of gate you off before certain points of no return to make sure you don't leave something behind and lose the ability to get 100% completion. It's not necessary, but like I said earlier in the thread, if you 100% each world as and when you're able you get powers and upgrades so fast it's ridiculous how much poo poo you can wreck at relatively early points in the game. Plus, you get a nice extra reward when you get rank 100 (technically full completion; to throw the player a bone, your max possible rank is actually 101 in case you miss something, and it's probably the obnoxious punch minigame, which is worth a whole rank all by itself if you can get through it). quote:I guess that this kind of shows some problems with the games design. One thing I've said about Double Fine multiple times before is that their design philosophy is one of experimentation a lot of the time. They're almost always trying something new because they always want to make something new and cool. Even if the central hook doesn't always work you always come away with the feeling that a lot of love went into it nonetheless; they didn't half-rear end it, they worked themselves into a lather making the best flawed concept they could. So I really respect them a lot. All that said, imagine if they took everything they'd learned from one of their games and made a second of that type, another platformer or brawler/RTS or something. That would hypothetically be loving bananas (and I really hope it would actually be bananas because Double Fine has kind of set some high expectations at this point).
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Mar 13, 2015 10:30
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Acne Rain posted:also it annoyed me that raz was kept with half a brain for so long, I seem to remember punching just about everything would give you free health. Like I said upthread, there's almost nothing in the real world that you can destroy for health. Inside mental worlds, there's all kinds of junk to destroy, but in the camp, there are very few things. Maybe a couple of trash cans somewhere, and I really didn't want to waste time hiking to where a trash can might be, breaking it, and then leaving the screen and returning so it would respawn. There are a few more opportunities for health recovery after I have a few powers available, but at that point, I'm unlikely to be in a low-health situation again because I won't be fighting bears with my fists. Also, I'll have enough arrowheads to afford some Dream Fluffs once I've bought all the expensive stuff, so I'll have a way to recover available at all times.
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Mar 13, 2015 10:58
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Wow, I actually forgot this part. Is the glowy monster thing the lungfish?
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Mar 13, 2015 12:27
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anilEhilated posted:Wow, I actually forgot this part. Is the glowy monster thing the lungfish?
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Mar 13, 2015 14:36
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anilEhilated posted:Wow, I actually forgot this part. Is the glowy monster thing the lungfish? Everything in this mental world is a metaphor for something or other, some of which is mentioned explicitly and all of which are spoilers.
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Mar 14, 2015 00:42
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This is one of those games I always wanted to play, but never did (and now, no longer have a computer capable of running), so an informative LP is always appreciated. Now hurry up and cash in your new psychic power so I don't have to see Cruller looking all smug and glowy on the side of the screen anymore.  Would a 'normal' playthrough be likely to accquire enough rank and arrowheads to afford the Cobweb Duster by the time you need it?
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Mar 14, 2015 01:16
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I'd say so. At least when I played this game the first time I didn't hit any "You need to be X rank to proceed" type things until something way later. Although I did go out of my way to douse everything I could I imagine that's everyone when they're exploring for the first time.
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Mar 14, 2015 01:39
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Rangpur posted:Now hurry up and cash in your new psychic power so I don't have to see Cruller looking all smug and glowy on the side of the screen anymore. Next video, I promise - since I've explored the entire camp and not found a Cruller who seems to know anything about psychic power, I haven't had the opportunity to benefit from my advanced rank yet. Rangpur posted:Would a 'normal' playthrough be likely to accquire enough rank and arrowheads to afford the Cobweb Duster by the time you need it? Probably, since I don't believe we'll need it for a very long time. I like having it because I want to collect all of the baggage, cobwebs, and vaults the first time through each mind - it's only the figments that tend to be annoying to complete collecting if you know what you're doing. I don't think there's an actual minimum rank until about halfway through the game, by which time we'll have gone through so many minds that it would be hard not to be at least close to the required rank. For reference, and this is just my understanding from watching other playthroughs that weren't nearly as diligent as mine, the requirements are the Cobweb Duster to get through Boyd Cooper's mind (which means you'll also have the required ranks for Pyrokinesis and Telekinesis, both of which are required as well), and Invisibility for Fred's, although it's very helpful for both of the other two in that same set). Collecting the arrowheads is something you need to stop and do at that time, and the game will tell you so but still let you proceed until the point where a cobweb actually blocks your path, but I can't imagine anyone getting that far and not having a sufficient rank and at least the 50 arrowheads for the Dowsing Rod. You know, I'm pretty sure this is the first thread I've run where tagged spoilers are okay, and I'm still not used to it. I keep wanting to say "Hey, don't post that here!" and then catching myself.
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Mar 14, 2015 02:02
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Nidoking posted:For reference, and this is just my understanding from watching other playthroughs that weren't nearly as diligent as mine, the requirements are the Cobweb Duster to get through Boyd Cooper's mind (which means you'll also have the required ranks for Pyrokinesis and Telekinesis, both of which are required as well), and Invisibility for Fred's, although it's very helpful for both of the other two in that same set). I'm 99% certain that you need invisibility for Boyd's mind as well, since there's that camera that closes a gate if it sees you. Unless I'm mixing it up with another area in the game.
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Mar 14, 2015 11:31
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GeneX posted:I'm 99% certain that you need invisibility for Boyd's mind as well, since there's that camera that closes a gate if it sees you. Unless I'm mixing it up with another area in the game. This is incorrect, but I think that's enough spoilers from me for the moment. At least you left yourself 1% of wiggle room so there's no egg on your face.
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Mar 14, 2015 12:17
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101  The amount of stuff that the majority of players may never see is staggering. I feel like I missed half the game the first time around. I think I missed some non mandatory cutscenes too.
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Mar 14, 2015 14:45
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I think I would like this game a lot more if the characters were human. These weird... whatever-the-hell-they-ares just don't work for me at all.Nidoking posted:I don't even notice the sound when I'm playing (in fact, I didn't even know that there WAS a low health noise), but I admit that during the editing process, it does tend to stand out.
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Mar 14, 2015 16:03
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Tafferling posted:The amount of stuff that the majority of players may never see is staggering. I feel like I missed half the game the first time around. I think I missed some non mandatory cutscenes too. I'm probably missing a few myself - there's one that I must have forgotten about that I only found because I couldn't find Chloe at one point and when I loaded my save and went to look for her, I stumbled into it. (Then had to reload again to capture it.) Expect some clumsy editing coming up. Tiggum posted:One thing I did want to say about the sound is that your commentary is so much louder than the game audio that it's pretty much impossible to get volume that works for both. If the game audio is loud enough, you're too loud. It would be nice if you kept the two a bit closer together. I'll try lowering my audio a bit - this is the same balance I've been using for years, though, and personally, I've never had a problem hearing the game audio in my videos. It's a bit quiet, I admit, but better that than me competing with the game audio at times and having to adjust portions of the audio separately. I don't like audio ducking if I can avoid it.
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Mar 14, 2015 18:45
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Tafferling posted:101 Yeah, it's really hard to get some of the bonus cut scenes. Almost impossible if you don't have a guide.
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Mar 15, 2015 00:00
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Tiggum posted:I think I would like this game a lot more if the characters were human. These weird... whatever-the-hell-they-ares just don't work for me at all. This happened to me at first as well. I don't mind the designs in a vacuum, but most of the cast are regular cartoony humans for the most part so it is a bit jarring when you switch focus to the character with ears the size of a head or the one who has the the face of a frog.
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Mar 15, 2015 12:45
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Tiggum posted:These weird... whatever-the-hell-they-ares just don't work for me at all. I just think of them as muppets.
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Mar 15, 2015 13:58
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I always thought the character models looked kinda like 3D versions of a Klasky Csupo character.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:11
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They're some bizarre cut between Tim Burton and Jhonen Vasquez designs.
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Mar 15, 2015 16:31
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Yeah, my only problem with the character design is not that the characters are cartoony but that there is no set standard of cartoony between characters. Some are fairly human with exaggerated features (Raz, Lili, Bobby), while some are simply inhuman. This problem really shows with Crystal, who's lack of ears and nose and her fish-like eyes question how the human species evolved in this universe.
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Mar 15, 2015 17:06
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There were some minicomics where the art style worked. So if the characters were paper mario sprites they'd look okay, or maybe some kind if cel shading with bold outlines Usually I don't see much of a big deal with next gen graphics but this game would benefit greatly with just being a little sharper.
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Mar 15, 2015 17:13
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The only character who seriously weirds me out is Crystal, though Clem is a bit off-putting.
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Mar 15, 2015 17:29
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GeneX posted:The only character who seriously weirds me out is Crystal, though Clem is a bit off-putting. Yeah. When they were up by those speakers and they pulled out the chemicals for a split second, I thought the developers were sort of making a joke about them being 'on' something. And Crystal having that weird mood swing fits that. Those kids are taking uppers up there, drat it.
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Mar 15, 2015 17:39
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It always read as pretty clear to me that things are rendered based on how much Raz is paying attention to them. Raz is fully rendered as human, so are all the psychic camp counselors he idolizes, the other kids he's not really paying that much attention to except for lilli.
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Mar 15, 2015 17:49
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Acne Rain posted:It always read as pretty clear to me that things are rendered based on how much Raz is paying attention to them. Raz is fully rendered as human, so are all the psychic camp counselors he idolizes, the other kids he's not really paying that much attention to except for lilli. Quentin, Elton, and Maloof are all pretty well-rendered. I think it's mostly arbitrary. Jen X fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 17:51
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Ghost Stromboli posted:Yeah. When they were up by those speakers and they pulled out the chemicals for a split second, I thought the developers were sort of making a joke about them being 'on' something. And Crystal having that weird mood swing fits that. Those kids are taking uppers up there, drat it. Hoooooo buddy if you only knew.
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Mar 15, 2015 21:44
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I want to put it out there that I really dislike the use of drugs and their effects as a punchline, especially in the sense of implying that drugs are the only thing capable of producing a particular reaction or behavior, ESPECIALLY especially when that behavior is creativity. There are a large number of mental disorders which can cause effects similar to those of many drugs, including Clem and Crystal's moods, and if the cost of being creative is to be accused of using illegal substances, there will likely be a lot less creativity in the future because people will be scared to express themselves. I want to encourage open discussion of the mental disorders that the characters in the game may be suffering, particularly if anyone reading this thread has any formal training in the subject (although I'm pretty sure the first thing they teach you is that you can't diagnose mental disorders from, say, watching a video of how someone behaves and it's dangerous to try to do that with real people), but I equally would like to discourage any attribution of those behaviors to drug use unless something in the game specifically hints at that. I believe the flasks with the poison symbol on them actually contained poison. Not that there's anything wrong with what anyone's said so far in this regard, but it seems like a good time to mention it before we get too far into the subject.
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Mar 16, 2015 01:43
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Did they have a toxic symbol? I didn't notice that. I was mostly trying to find meaning in the gesture of pulling out the beakers quickly. Because of their behavior, drugs were the first option. It very well could be attributed to something else, but that was just my own attempt of figuring out that interaction. Honestly, it may have all meant nothing beyond being silly.
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Mar 16, 2015 07:18
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I have no idea if it's actually going to be fully addressed in-game or not, it's been so long since I played that I don't actually remember, but their Friendster profiles give you a pretty good idea of what their deal is. Here are a couple of excerpts, if you don't mind spoilers for character traits (if these count?): http://i.imgur.com/wExgxyM.png http://i.imgur.com/VN4lXUm.png
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Mar 16, 2015 07:43
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I thought it was pretty obviously depression, but I suppose I'm more inclined to recognize that than the average person. Granted, their fake cheer is a bit too comically exaggerated (right along the lines of the behavior I used to expect from anti-depression medication, which I'm pretty sure isn't a factor here), but the sudden overwhelming sense of self-loathing that can break through the most carefully constructed persona is very familiar to me. I've also had the benefit of seeing the rest of the game, which makes it a little more obvious, but my best party trick is telling people all about their own emotional states by describing myself in the second person and having them wonder how I could possibly know that much about them. It does tend to bring any sort of party to an abrupt end, but that's why it's the best party trick ever. People seem to tend to have a blind spot for depression, which is probably because they don't want to understand how widespread the problem is, and it's so much easier and less stressful to believe that it's a rare, highly recognizable condition that nobody they know has and that's easy to deal with simply by cheering up. As long as it's "Somebody Else's Problem", they won't be affected. I probably denied mine for a long time even after I became aware of it, and then I started looking for solutions I could implement on my own, believing that every new thing I learned about myself was the solution to breaking the cycle. But that's probably heavier than this thread needs to be. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with the drug speculation if you actually believe that's what's going on in the game, but I want to put a preemptive stop to "What drugs are they on?" or "I want whatever that person is smoking!" or "The only way anyone could have come up with this song/movie/painting/story is if they were on drugs," which are far too common and rather universally insulting, even if they're true in particular cases. I'm not too fond of statements like "You're going to need some drugs to get through this movie," either, since that's highly reductive of coping mechanisms and addiction, among other things, but I doubt I'd be able to convince anyone else to agree with me. I'm not even among the people who take offense at misapplication of language about depression, probably largely because I can't think of a single slur referring to depression - just the casually callous "I'm so depressed because I dropped a nickel down a sewer grate" kind of thing that just means people don't know any better. But as someone who values creativity, I utterly despise the suggestion that it can't exist within the sober human mind. That's all. I'll put my soapbox away now.
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Mar 16, 2015 11:35
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That kind of comment is basically telling a depressed person that it is their medication that makes them funny or creative and that without it they don't even have that going for them. It is a horrible thing to do and has been my pet peeve since the first time I've heard it. Not a particularly light topic for the thread though, I agree. I played a bit of Psychonauts but the aesthetic and the collect-a-thon aspect put me off around this point, so I don't know if the game goes more in depth into these issues. If it does though, it is certainly worth revisiting later.
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Mar 16, 2015 17:50
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It's not very nice to healthy creative people either. Basically all it is, is someone who's not creative and never will be making themselves feel better. The reason they're not creative isn't because they didn't strive to keep their creativity as they grew up in a society that mocks creative people; it's because they're too straight-edge to use those naughty drugs that make people creative.
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Mar 16, 2015 21:50
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GimmickMan posted:I played a bit of Psychonauts but the aesthetic and the collect-a-thon aspect put me off around this point, so I don't know if the game goes more in depth into these issues. If it does though, it is certainly worth revisiting later. That's a shame, because we're pretty much done with collect-a-thon - if you can get enough arrowheads to buy the Cobweb Duster and enough PSI Cores to buy the ranks you want, you're pretty much done with the mandatory collecting. Allow me to demonstrate as I post a new episode by way of apology for the downer mood from earlier. Last time, Sasha offered to teach us how to fight for real, without having to rely on short-range punching. In today's episode, Raz gains a new PSI power that's great for combat. He also learns one that's pretty lousy in combat, but has occasional uses. With these two powers, Raz can take on most challengers quite safely.  Next time: We let Sasha teach us how to fight for real. Part 6: Two of the three skills required to throw flaming poop at someone Polsy Youtube
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Mar 16, 2015 23:20
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This thread inspired me to play psychonauts again but to go in the opposite direction that nidoking is, seeing how far I can go without collecting.(I have beaten the game, I think I collected everything except the figments because gently caress that) Of course if a figment's in my path it's getting collected, but only then. I'm not good enough to avoid figments. It's less a low level run and more "I don't give a poo poo" run. The game's pretty fun this way, and the plot's way more involving when you aren't taking long breaks to run around collecting things and just going to the next objective but I just reached the first level-based road block where a level needs the level 20 power. Cruller lets you in the level anyway but with a warning. Again I think the collection aspect could have been better, a lot of stuff just isn't hidden well enough to make collection feel as good as collecting stars or jiggies did and not like cleaning up all these collectables someone spilled on the camp/mindscape.
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Mar 17, 2015 00:34
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It's really weird to me that you waited until just now to jump in the stump. Even the first time I played I was like "Hey this stump is blocked off hey look now it's not what's down there" so I basically learned The Secret Of The Stumps instantly.Acne Rain posted:Again I think the collection aspect could have been better, a lot of stuff just isn't hidden well enough to make collection feel as good as collecting stars or jiggies did and not like cleaning up all these collectables someone spilled on the camp/mindscape. Figment hiding does get a little better later in the game, but it's more that there are figments tucked away in clever hiding places on top of that whole "oops I spilled collectibles all over your path" feeling rather than instead of it. There's one in particular-just one-in a world we won't get to for a while yet that's really mean. It's tucked off in the one remote corner of an open-ended map that contains nothing at all relevant to anything you do to actually complete the level. Even when I'm specifically looking for it I end up going to a different part of the map instead.
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Mar 17, 2015 01:04
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I love how Cruller has funny things to say when you trying to use your psychic powers on him. Games with personally are always a plus in my book.
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Mar 17, 2015 01:06
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The Sezza posted:I have no idea if it's actually going to be fully addressed in-game or not, it's been so long since I played that I don't actually remember, but their Friendster profiles give you a pretty good idea of what their deal is. Here are a couple of excerpts, if you don't mind spoilers for character traits (if these count?): That clears it up a bit, yeah. I just want to emphasize that I only intended to joke about the props they pulled out - which still make no sense to me.
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Mar 17, 2015 04:24
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Ghost Stromboli posted:That clears it up a bit, yeah. I just want to emphasize that I only intended to joke about the props they pulled out - which still make no sense to me. They're mixing poisons with the intention of drinking them - possibly as a way to keep their hands busy, possibly just to give the animators something to animate so you can see the poison but not assume that they're drinking it already.
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Mar 17, 2015 11:26
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