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DMorbid
Jan 6, 2011

Hello! I see you.


If the opposing team gets the ball at any point, you're hosed and pretty much at the mercy of the RNG. Your defenders are poo poo at blocking (or, in Botta's case, everything), and the goalie sucks harder than an industrial vacuum cleaner.

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Lonely Virgil
Oct 9, 2012

I forgot the name, but there was a steam or diesel punk mech jrpg on the Playstation 2 that where early on in the game you are asked to go on an adventure with the option to say no. If you choose no your character lives in unadventurous life and dies of old age, game over.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Lonely Virgil posted:

I forgot the name, but there was a steam or diesel punk mech jrpg on the Playstation 2 that where early on in the game you are asked to go on an adventure with the option to say no. If you choose no your character lives in unadventurous life and dies of old age, game over.

That would be Metal Saga and there are actually several points where you can make a choice that will end the game early.

You can, at near any point have the main character get married to his childhood crush and the game ends with him settling down and starting a family.

1000 Brown M and Ms
Oct 22, 2008

F:\DL>quickfli 4-clowns.fli

Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

Anyway, a conversation about dickish adventure games isn't complete without King's Quest, the game where you have to tell the character to swim when you enter water. That's one of those cases where I don't know if it was just an odd design choice, but the first game also lets you pull a rock and crush yourself if you don't move it from the correct side.

There's a similar thing in Space Quest II. You have to swim into a cave to get a gem, but you have to tell the character to hold his breath first. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to tell him to breathe when he gets out of the water as well.

There's stuff in all of the Space Quest games that are worthy of this thread.

Alpha Kenny Juan
Apr 11, 2007

Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

Anyway, a conversation about dickish adventure games isn't complete without King's Quest, the game where you have to tell the character to swim when you enter water. That's one of those cases where I don't know if it was just an odd design choice, but the first game also lets you pull a rock and crush yourself if you don't move it from the correct side.

I did this. It was the very first thing I did too. It wasn't pull either, I pushed it but was crushed because things roll down and not up.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Speaking of killing yourself with rocks, in magicka if you use the rock element by itself and cast it on yourself, it just drops a rock on your head that hurts you.

Magicka itself is kind of a wonderful troll. It pretty much gives you the keys to be brutally overpowered if you want to be, except there is self damage and friendly fire so the biggest challenge in the game is not blowing up yourself and your friends. The game was so buggy and unstable when it came out that they had to do daily patches, and later on when it was working properly they added a blue screen of death spell in reference to that. It just blue screens a single character on the screen, but it's pretty much 50/50 whether that will end up being an enemy, or you end up deleting one of your friends/yourself.

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005

1000 Brown M and Ms posted:

There's a similar thing in Space Quest II. You have to swim into a cave to get a gem, but you have to tell the character to hold his breath first. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to tell him to breathe when he gets out of the water as well.

There's stuff in all of the Space Quest games that are worthy of this thread.

You don't have to tell him to breath, the important part is to tell him to take a deep breath. I can't believe I actually beat that game without a guide as a kid.

Also that game has a huge gently caress-you in that if you get kissed by a random alien about three quarters thought he game an alien will burst out your chest in the last frame of the game giving you a game over. Hope you have a save far enough back.

Lord Lambeth
Dec 7, 2011


Choco1980 posted:

Regarding discussion of difficult to win battles that don't matter, I'm reminded of the intro to blitzball in Final Fantasy X. Blitzball's basically underwater rugby, and the first time you play it is mandatory, but you're against a team that at the time is MUCH better than you. It's EXTREMELY hard to beat them, but not impossible. This is the only mandatory time you have to play the game. If you lose, the game plays on as normal, as it expect you to. If you win, your main character gets this trophy he carries through the rest of the game, that actively effects nothing. That's the only real difference. I won't admit how many hours I spent getting good at Blitzball.


A different type of troll that comes to mind is in Metal Gear Solid 3. That game takes place chronologically before the rest of the series. There's a character, Revolver Ocelot, that is important in the series, and early in 3 you get in a fight with him. If you defeat him using lethal methods (which nothing tells you you can't at the time), you get a game over, and the screen says "A time paradox was created."

I haven't played either of these games but I am 100% okay with these trolls. Both of these are fantastic. :allears:

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

I gave the HD remake of FFX a shot and thought, I know this Blitzball poo poo now, I'm gonna clear house. Nope the other team's stats are in a whole other league and eventually I was like "gently caress it, not worth reloading a save."

Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

Anyway, a conversation about dickish adventure games isn't complete without King's Quest, the game where you have to tell the character to swim when you enter water. That's one of those cases where I don't know if it was just an odd design choice, but the first game also lets you pull a rock and crush yourself if you don't move it from the correct side.
You could pretty much make an entire thread dedicated to King's Quest. They get less dickish as they go on, but are still terrible, and the early ones were deliberately designed to get people to call the hint-line and/or buy the hint book. There are puzzles that are basically unsolveable, there are puzzles where doing (or not doing) something much earlier in the game will kill you (often without making it clear what your error was) and there are puzzles that combine both.

FreshCutFries
Sep 15, 2007

I don't understand all of this blitz ball difficulty. Did everyone fail the mini game on the ship that gives you the jecht shot? The strategy to win that first game is just: give tidus the ball -> use jecht shot -> repeat

olaf2022
Feb 19, 2003
Fun Shoe
The Lost Files of Sherlock Holmes - The Case of the Serrated Scalpel:

(if memory serves)

You're investigating the murder of an actress and at one point you have to interrogate her boyfriend. He refuses to believe you when you inform him of his girlfriend's death, and demands to see an official death certificate before he'll talk to you.

You head to the morgue, and you can physically see the death certificate and examine it, but the coroner won't let you take it because it's the only copy and he still needs it for something, and won't make a duplicate. You try everything and still he won't give it to you.

Turns out you have to go back to the first location of the game, and talk to the man at the newsstand who suddenly has a new dialog option of asking him if he has a copy of that day's newspaper. Of course, he's sold out. Then, you have to talk to the nearby newsboy who either happens to have a copy or sends his lads out to find one. Then, you go back to the woman's boyfriend and give him the newspaper. The newspaper had an article about the woman's death so now he believes you and starts to talk.

There are lots of things like this in the game but I felt this was the worst since the dude specifically demands to see the official death certificate, which actually exists in the game, but isn't allowed to be taken, and there are no clues whatsoever given about going back to the first location in the game and speaking with the newsstand guy (who you'd already exhausted all previous dialog options with long ago), having no luck, then talking to the newsboy, getting a newspaper and giving it to the guy instead of a death certificate.

Still enjoyed the game though.

Arsonist Daria
Feb 27, 2011

Requiescat in pace.

Thingyman posted:

I don't understand all of this blitz ball difficulty. Did everyone fail the mini game on the ship that gives you the jecht shot? The strategy to win that first game is just: give tidus the ball -> use jecht shot -> repeat

This helps a lot, but Blitzball can still be a middle finger from the RNG even with that capability. I never bothered with the minigame besides when I had to because it's a poo poo game with a shittier AI.

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

I got extremely sick in seventh grade and beat all of Blitzball to earn Wakka's ultimate weapon. It's very relaxing when you're ill.

Arsonist Daria
Feb 27, 2011

Requiescat in pace.

FactsAreUseless posted:

I got extremely sick in seventh grade and beat all of Blitzball to earn Wakka's ultimate weapon. It's very relaxing when you're ill.

Understandable, I beat all of Oblivion while recovering from getting my tonsils and adenoids removed.

All of it.

Darkhold
Feb 19, 2011

No Heart❤️
No Soul👻
No Service🙅
The release of Pillars of Eternity has got me playing Neverwinter Nights 2 which has an infamously bad ending. After playing 40+ hours of this grand campaign the good ending is 'rocks fall everyone dies'. It's pretty clear they ran out of budget/time and just had to slap together some ending slides and the choose an ending that (from what I hear) pissed off DMs use to kill bad groups in tabletop games. All narrated by someone that sounds like they have a plugged up nose.

The bad ending is pretty amusing though because it really does rub your nose in how much of a psychopath you'd have to be to side with the big evil.

1000 Brown M and Ms
Oct 22, 2008

F:\DL>quickfli 4-clowns.fli

Bip Roberts posted:

You don't have to tell him to breath, the important part is to tell him to take a deep breath. I can't believe I actually beat that game without a guide as a kid.

Also that game has a huge gently caress-you in that if you get kissed by a random alien about three quarters thought he game an alien will burst out your chest in the last frame of the game giving you a game over. Hope you have a save far enough back.

Oh, ok. Either I'm remembering incorrectly or the version I played was different to yours. To be fair I haven't played any Space Quest games in years.

I remember that alien part. Looking back it should have been obvious because that alien looks like the xenomorph in Alien.

DMorbid
Jan 6, 2011

Hello! I see you.


Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

This helps a lot, but Blitzball can still be a middle finger from the RNG even with that capability. I never bothered with the minigame besides when I had to because it's a poo poo game with a shittier AI.
Jecht Shot also isn't available until the second half of the first game (you only get to set abilities during halftime, after your guys have leveled up a bit), and it eats most of Tidus' HP so you only get one chance to use it.

Fatty
Sep 13, 2004
Not really fat
If lovely illogical adventure game puzzles count as a troll, then the cat hair moustache has to be included.

http://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/77.html

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Nintendo putting Four Swords in the eshop randomly instead of leaving it always available.

im pooping!
Nov 17, 2006


Lumberjack Bonanza posted:

This helps a lot, but Blitzball can still be a middle finger from the RNG even with that capability. I never bothered with the minigame besides when I had to because it's a poo poo game with a shittier AI.

Blitzball is okay if you do it right, but when I play RPGs I have a tendency to level up my dudes, and if you go into a game of BB with the intention of scoring one goal then passing the ball back and forth so your dudes get XP until the clock runs out, it becomes a miserable experience. Most games are easy unless you're playing against the Al Bhed team, but the only real reason to play it is to get Wakka's celestial weapon and his limit break Attack Reels, which is only good if you're trying to fight Penance or whoever in the monster arena.

When I ended up beating the game and putting it down on PS2, Tidus had max speed and max strength, and was doing 99999 damage per hit. The real boss of the game went down in 2 turns, I'd kill him in his first form on my first turn in one hit, then when he changed I'd repeat. Effectively you can beat pretty much everything and after that it's a matter of grinding out the 1000 hours or so to max everything for everyone and there's literally no point.

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story
Didn't one of the Final Fantasy games have super powerful weapons that only appeared if you didn't open certain chests at earlier points in the game?

Yngwie Mangosteen
Aug 23, 2007

Dr_Amazing posted:

Didn't one of the Final Fantasy games have super powerful weapons that only appeared if you didn't open certain chests at earlier points in the game?

Chrono Trigger did in a way. It was awesome to figure out back before I read guides.

im pooping!
Nov 17, 2006


Dr_Amazing posted:

Didn't one of the Final Fantasy games have super powerful weapons that only appeared if you didn't open certain chests at earlier points in the game?

Yes, that was Final Fantasy 12.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

Cleretic posted:

Making the Blitzball tutorial one of the hardest Blitzball games is a troll by itself, you barely get given the opportunity to learn the game before you lose it.

I seem to remember :siren: STAR PLAYER OF THE ZANARKAND ABES :siren: Tidus's skills also being pretty balls except for kicking. Like not only was your team absolute rear end but Tidus was only good on offensive plays which meant if you never got the opportunity to make one you were just kind of hosed. It was also pretty hard to actually get him in position to make a play either because his other stats were utter poo poo.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Dr_Amazing posted:

Didn't one of the Final Fantasy games have super powerful weapons that only appeared if you didn't open certain chests at earlier points in the game?
The infamous Zodiac Spear from FFXII, yes. Additional developer troll: one of those chests you can't open is found in an area with 16 chests and is apparently a random one of those, so you can't open any of them.

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Dr_Amazing posted:

Didn't one of the Final Fantasy games have super powerful weapons that only appeared if you didn't open certain chests at earlier points in the game?

FF12's infamous Zodiac Spear. EDIT: Oh poo poo, you not only can't open those four chests, you have to make sure no one in your party has the "get better items from chests" item equipped.

Captain Monkey posted:

Chrono Trigger did in a way. It was awesome to figure out back before I read guides.

But the ones in Chrono Trigger had a cool way of getting them - go to the chest in an earlier year (600?), refuse to open it, go a later time (the "present", wasn't it? 1000 or something?), then open it to get the powered-up version of the weapon...then break the laws of time and go back and get the lower-tier version too.

Yngwie Mangosteen
Aug 23, 2007

Kugyou no Tenshi posted:

FF12's infamous Zodiac Spear. EDIT: Oh poo poo, you not only can't open those four chests, you have to make sure no one in your party has the "get better items from chests" item equipped.


But the ones in Chrono Trigger had a cool way of getting them - go to the chest in an earlier year (600?), refuse to open it, go a later time (the "present", wasn't it? 1000 or something?), then open it to get the powered-up version of the weapon...then break the laws of time and go back and get the lower-tier version too.

Yeah, it was pretty great, and it made it somewhat obvious because the chest and amulet shined brightly and let you know something happened. So naturally, young me was like 'wait a minute' and went over to the later time and opened it, then came back. It was a super cool little trick.

DMorbid
Jan 6, 2011

Hello! I see you.


Kugyou no Tenshi posted:

FF12's infamous Zodiac Spear. EDIT: Oh poo poo, you not only can't open those four chests, you have to make sure no one in your party has the "get better items from chests" item equipped.
But don't worry, you can get another one!

quote:

A second Zodiac Spear can be obtained in an alternative site, the Henne Mines' Phase 2 Dig. Even if the mentioned forbidden chests named in the above chart are opened, the spear is still obtainable here. However, to unlock the site, at least 10 Espers must be acquired, and the Mindflayer Hunt completed. The player must speak to Geomancer Yugelu in Jahara to unlock this site, reachable via the Ore Separation.

The chest is hidden in a secluded area. The odds are heavily stacked against the player: chances for the chest to spawn is 10%, the chance the chest contains an item is 10%, and the item being the Zodiac Spear another 10% - meaning there is only a 1 in 1000 (0.1%) chance the spear will appear. In contrast to the original chest, the lead character must wear the Diamond Armlet in order to receive the spear.
:suicide:

This is all Akitoshi Kawazu's doing. I know it.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Oh hahahahhaha you're right Kawazu did work on FF12.

You could probably fill a whole thread with amazing dick moves his SaGa games have produced.

DMorbid
Jan 6, 2011

Hello! I see you.


Kawazu didn't just work on FFXII, he actually took over as director after Matsuno left the project. I'm surprised the characters don't get stronger by hitting themselves in the head.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty
Once you actually get good at Blitzball, it's actually a pretty fun waste of time. The key is that your guys still can gain abilities/level up in practice games, and the other teams can't. So you keep pushing that boulder up the hill and eventually you get good. The game gets absurd when you unlock Jecht Shot 2, which knocks out THREE opponents automatically, while still being one of the highest valued special shots in the game. After a while I would start playing things like seeing if I could manage 10 points before the end of the game.


Edit: VVVV Ah, that's right, but still, if you carefully choose your exhibition games right, you can have a powerhouse team that absolutely steamrollers the competition in the games that count.

Choco1980 has a new favorite as of 22:26 on Mar 18, 2015

Kugyou no Tenshi
Nov 8, 2005

We can't keep the crowd waiting, can we?

Choco1980 posted:

Once you actually get good at Blitzball, it's actually a pretty fun waste of time. The key is that your guys still can gain abilities/level up in practice games

You can only learn abilities in exhibition games - no experience. Which means that if you aren't already at the right level to learn the ability, you have zero chance to learn it because you can't level.

On the other hand, starting an exhibition game and immediately forfeiting it still runs down the clock on other teams' contracts, so if you're trying to sign that one Al Bhed...

Lurkman
Nov 4, 2008

Bip Roberts posted:

You don't have to tell him to breath, the important part is to tell him to take a deep breath. I can't believe I actually beat that game without a guide as a kid.

Also that game has a huge gently caress-you in that if you get kissed by a random alien about three quarters thought he game an alien will burst out your chest in the last frame of the game giving you a game over. Hope you have a save far enough back.

I like to think the rubber tree gag in Secret of Monkey Island was Lucasart's way of trolling Sierra. I mean, if mocking is a form of trolling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-_-QxerYno

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

Lurkman posted:

I like to think the rubber tree gag in Secret of Monkey Island was Lucasart's way of trolling Sierra. I mean, if mocking is a form of trolling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-_-QxerYno

Uh... It's excruciatingly obvious.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

ToxicSlurpee posted:

I seem to remember :siren: STAR PLAYER OF THE ZANARKAND ABES :siren: Tidus's skills also being pretty balls except for kicking. Like not only was your team absolute rear end but Tidus was only good on offensive plays which meant if you never got the opportunity to make one you were just kind of hosed. It was also pretty hard to actually get him in position to make a play either because his other stats were utter poo poo.

Ehh, iirc his stats were slightly above average, below-average tackle, and decidedly above-average speed but not enough that you can notice it. The problem was that Jecht Shot is just so good that it's next to impossible to miss with, so his really nice shot stat is kinda :shrug:. He was good on a statistical level, but compared to players like Brother, who was so fast that nobody could even catch up with him and it hosed with the opposing team's AI, Tidus seems... blah.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
Its still so bizzare to me that the game with a city destroying sky whale as the antagonist somehow has an organized sports program complete with seasons and drafting.

Pile of Kittens
Apr 23, 2005

Why does everything STILL smell like pussy?

Yeah, I had a similar reaction. "Isn't this supposed to be a war-ravaged near-apocalyptic scenario? Who has time for this poo poo?" and I never played Blitzball again.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

Pile of Kittens posted:

Isn't this supposed to be a war-ravaged near-apocalyptic scenario?

It is a Japanese game, yes.

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HOT! New Memes
May 31, 2006




Their was a Xman game for sega where you were fighting mojo and you had to physically reset the game console. Nowhere was this explained and I never actually beat the game. Help I didn't even find this out till I looked it up a few months back.

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