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 Welcome Commanders. This is the German thread for The Over the Top Goon on Goon game. If you happen to be Playing as the Allies, you are in the wrong thread. Please head over to your correct thread now. Right, now that they are gone. To break up the page a bit, here is the battlefield once more. This time, with the names added on.  The River Sombre is the border, and you must deploy to the north of it. Your forces are as follows. You have four corps of infanty availible for the attack, although further reserves may be allocated. Three of these are regular line infantry, with the fourth being a green reserve Corps. Each Corps is made up of 2 Divisions. Each Division has the following makup. quote:Divisional HQ Each corp has a HQ and the following assets. quote:Corps Assests: As a visual guide, here is one Corps.  Divisonal and Corps assests need to be assigned to regiments before the battle. Due to (insane) tactical practices at this stage, artillery cannot fire indirectly! – tactical doctrine for this stage of the war was to fire on open sights, like they were still using cannon! Deployment. Corps do not have to keep within a certain distance of each other. Divisions must remain within 36 of the Corps Commander Regiments must remain within 24 of the Division Commander Companies must remain within 16 of the Regimental Commander.  To help, thats the range ruler. I'm not going to be anal about this, to keep my work load to a reasonable amount. Please start your allocation of units and planning. Feel free to ask any questions – You may keep up to half of your Corps in reserve. Once deployment is done for both sides, I'll make up a map of what each side can see, and we will then go to plans. This battlefield is set up on the assumption that you are attacking. If you wish a map extension to allow flanking, please let me know. Good luck. May the dice roll in your favour.
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Mar 8, 2015 18:31
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How many Machine guns (not units) does a division get?
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Mar 8, 2015 18:54
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Crowsbeak posted:How many Machine guns (not units) does a division get? At this point, all MG are in the units as far as the game is concerned.
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Mar 8, 2015 19:00
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Since I can't find the Spearhead rules anywhere outside buying the rulebook, I'll need to ask some very basic (and probably embarrassingly stupid) questions that I think are important even for deployment: What's the difference in speed and range between infantry, cavalry, bicycles? Are there hard range restrictions for units firing? How do the artillery pieces compare in effective range (i.e. is it possible to rely on technical specifications, or are there for instance doctrinal limitations)? I assume each unit of the ruler is an inch, which IIRC is supposed to be 80 yards?
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Mar 8, 2015 19:19
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steinrokkan posted:Since I can't find the Spearhead rules anywhere outside buying the rulebook, I'll need to ask some very basic (and probably embarrassingly stupid) questions that I think are important even for deployment: Infantry and Bikes move 8, Cav move 12. limbered guns move 8. Most infantry weapons have a range of 8, MG's 12 and the artillery up to 18. (open sights) And yeah, each marker is 1"/80 yards.
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Mar 8, 2015 19:35
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so, our half of the interest spreadsheet has been deleted (except for the colors and my claim to orange). what does that mean? edit: have we been... stabbed in the back oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 19:53
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What's going on? I don't know how to fight a war
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Mar 8, 2015 20:22
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oystertoadfish posted:so, our half of the interest spreadsheet has been deleted (except for the colors and my claim to orange). what does that mean? German Divisional commander here. So does gray want us to tell him where we deploy right now, or do we discuss it first? It looks to me like the major objectives will be Grappe Des Foutres, Beagle Volant, and those two ridgelines, Chemin Des Poutaines and La Foumilliere. Ideally, we would take La Foumilliere and Grappe in our initial push, but If we need to focus on one I think it should be Foumilliere, especially given that nice ridge we can fall back to if it gets overrun. The left concerns me though, it doesn't look like there's much cover, either for advancing or retreating. With all this in mind, I'd like to propose the following war plan. In phase one, our 4 corps force the initial crossing (I feel like we should place the green corps on the Rightmost flank, since they'll have the least to do), and secure the first ridgeline and the towns on our flanks, either to protect against flanking or to flank the enemy themselves. In phase two, we seize the second ridgeline and the Grappe, and hopefully push them over the second river. I have the second corps moving to take the Grappe in phase 2, but I feel like they might need to help taking the second ridge  Comments?
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Mar 8, 2015 20:28
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I guess the first priority should be to establish a chain of command? The last I checked there were only two corps commanders in the list - Bacarruda and me. We'll need two more people who aren't afraid of being the first against the wall when the Communist agitators seize the army.
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Mar 8, 2015 20:36
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steinrokkan posted:I guess the first priority should be to establish a chain of command? The last I checked there were only two corps commanders in the list - Bacarruda and me. We'll need two more people who aren't afraid of being the first against the wall when the Communist agitators seize the army. I suppose I could take a Corps Commander position, though I was looking forward to blaming my commander for loving everything up and absolving myself of blame. warhammer651 fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 20:38
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Should we look at the extended map for flanking to see what's available?
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Mar 8, 2015 20:41
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I signed up for a division, but am definitely not qualified for a corps command. This is my first one of these.
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Mar 8, 2015 20:47
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pthighs posted:I signed up for a division, but am definitely not qualified for a corps command. This is my first one of these. you say that like anyone in the german army was actually qualified for their position.
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Mar 8, 2015 20:48
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warhammer651 posted:you say that like anyone in the german army was actually qualified for their position. Moltke came highly recommended!  So it looks like 1 overall commander, 4 corps commanders, and each divisional commander takes 2 divisions? The plan posted above was basically what I was thinking. Those ridges in the middle are almost certainly going to bear the brunt of the fighting. Crossing the river on the east and holding down the western ridgeline are secondary objectives, but could become crucial down the line.
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Mar 8, 2015 20:52
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warhammer651 posted:I suppose I could take a Corps Commander position, though I was looking forward to blaming my commander for loving everything up and absolving myself of blame. There's always the Feldmarshall to blame.
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Mar 8, 2015 20:55
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Slaan posted:
I think it would be more useful to have the easternmost corps advancing along the northern banks of the Paysne, rather than through the Flash Farm. That way they could assist the assault on La Fourniere (?) if needed without making the march to Auberge du B. longer. Though in practice I guess the real movement will be dictated by French positions. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 20:58
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steinrokkan posted:I think it would be more useful to have the easternmost corps advancing along the northern banks of the Paysne, rather than through the Flash Farm. That way they could assist the assault on La Fourniere (?) if needed without making the march to Auberge du B. longer. The plan is intentionally vague and I fully expect that it will be nearly obsolete by the time We've finished phase 1. That said once they've crossed the river and start advancing on Beagle, any enemy forces on the ridge will have to pull out or risk being cut off. If they advance down the northern bank, they'll still flank the enemy, but any assault on Beagle will HAVE to occur from a single direction. By crossing the river and advancing towards Beagle, we force the enemy to withdraw while also allowing an assault from two directions.
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Mar 8, 2015 21:06
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i figure i'm a division commander. if i absolutely must roleplay i'll be one of those guys driven to alcoholism by sending young men to their deaths. what did alcoholic german officers drink?Slaan posted:So it looks like 1 overall commander, 4 corps commanders, and each divisional commander takes 2 divisions?
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Mar 8, 2015 21:53
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Field Marshall Checking in! I like this general plan, and think it's the most obvious of the different paths available to us. My only concern is that, while La Fourmilier is by far the most important geographical feature on the entire map, that I don't think we can reasonably get there before the allies do. This means that we'll be shooting at each other across hell fire valley, with the allies holding a distinct advantage and with us entirely unable to dislodge them. That said, I like the idea of trying to cross the river at point Kubrick, as it's the closest point at which could reasonably cross the river, as it provides some potential for flanking that position and could serve as a means to trap the Entente in what would otherwise seem like a good position. Here's your current plan visualized:  I assigned the Green reserve division to march alongside one of the non-green, as sending them out alone is just begging for the allies to concentrate on them and destroy them. The Green division is marked with the (G). The thing we need to do though is anticipate what the entente are going to do in response.  This is their most likely response. Third corps will be immediately met with resistance over on the left flank - and that's perfectly fine. We won't be taking point Kubrick any time soon, but we also won't be letting them get past the River Sombre. The third corps will likely be spending most of its time defending Mange-Pomme and keeping the French from doing a flanking maneuver there, just as we are. But notice what's going on at La Fourmiliere - we will have, most likely, two French divisions defending it, making our own dash for it moot. Hell, if they only send one division that's probably enough to hold it against our own divisions unless we double up with two non-vets, wasting half our units in that area. La Fourmilier, while the most important geographic feature on the map and the key to the battle, is simply too close to French lines for us to be able to take quickly enough to counter their own maneuvers. Instead, we leave Grappe de Fourtres open to them marching straight up past Georges farm and toward Coubarbe - threatening our own defensive position at the Chemin de Putains ridge. This will be equally disastrous if they send two divisions out of Decorum Ouest up North. Here's what I propose instead: Lettow Proposal  Chemin des Putains is still a good defensive position, and we should be able to hold it with one corps. If we adopt this strategy the allies have basically two options - leave La Fourmilier with a token defensive force in order to keep us from taking it for free and repositioning their men elsewhere, or going hard for Chemins des Putains with all of their forces. The one flaw with this plan is it envisions our Green reserve division holding our most important defensive position. I kind of want to do this to tempt the allies into attacking us there, but if you guys are more cautious-minded or think the rules call for caution, then here's the alternative plan in which we use our Greenies to move toward Grappe des Fourtres: Lettow Proposal Alternative  The thing we need to do now is think offensively - seizing the geographical features is important as right now it's easier to so before they get filled with dastardly Frenchmen. But we need to assume the allies are doing the same thing, and try and position our best units to take as much land as we can in the open season rather than send all our men to die on la Fourmiliere. Also assume the allies are reading this thread - I've got some other longer term goals that I don't want the allies knowing!  Commanders! Let me know what you think about the plans, and whether you prefer the Lettow Plan or Lettow Plan Alternative. Also, we currently have two corps commanders: Barracuda Steinrokkan We need two more among you divisional commanders, of which there are currently ten. Pick a Korps, and I'll add you to the map as commander of that corps. For divisional commanders, pick a korps to be assigned to, and I guess when Grey puts the units on the map you can work it out among your corps commanders which divisions you want to command. Remember that one korps is the green korps, and will be more likely to die! JosefStalinator fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 22:12
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I'll cast my vote for the Alternative plan, though it seems to me that our center will be spread pretty thin, while the entente readies a hammerblow there. Cannae was brilliant, but I don't think we're nearly skilled enough to pull it off again. And I suppose I'll take I Korps on the far left warhammer651 fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 22:19
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Hmmm, I'd have to say that Lettow Alternative is the better of the two. It gives us a better chance to both hold the center and flank around then the normal proposal. However, I also think that I Korps and III Korps (G) could be swapped. III Korps would have an easier time in battle if they are the flanker and would be less likely to break, losing us the entire Korps instead of, say, just Half of I Korps.
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Mar 8, 2015 22:20
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Slaan posted:Hmmm, I'd have to say that Lettow Alternative is the better of the two. It gives us a better chance to both hold the center and flank around then the normal proposal. However, I also think that I Korps and III Korps (G) could be swapped. III Korps would have an easier time in battle if they are the flanker and would be less likely to break, losing us the entire Korps instead of, say, just Half of I Korps. This is actually a good point, I think you're right that in the current plan IV Korps is more likely to meet the French before I Korps, which is bad. I'll fix it in a bit, swapping I Korps and IV Korps warhammer651 posted:I'll cast my vote for the Alternative plan, though it seems to me that our center will be spread pretty thin, while the entente readies a hammerblow there. Cannae was brilliant, but I don't think we're nearly skilled enough to pull it off again. We can easily shift the Korps that crosses at Coubarbe over to the Chemins if need be, should the entente really try to go hard across hellfire valley. And I invite them to do so  .
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Mar 8, 2015 22:22
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i'll vote for Josef's upcoming post-swap Alternative and take an assigment to a division in II Korps
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Mar 8, 2015 22:30
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Alternative and Korps II (or whichever get to be on the hill
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Mar 8, 2015 22:37
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Are we sure that the Allies are allowed to deploy only below the southern river? Can this be verified, Grey? In the meantime, I'd like to claim Korps III. Also the Alternative is a better choice in avoiding splintering our forces. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Mar 8, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 23:10
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steinrokkan posted:Are we sure that the Allies are allowed to deploy only below the southern river? Can this be verified, Grey? I was just about to say, actually. The wording in Grey's post just says "The Border", which could mean "Border of our deployment zone" or "French-German Border". I think we should hold off on swapping out Green Korps with any other until we know whether fighting will be happening from turn one. If the allies are allowed to deploy right up to the other side of the river, putting our green troops far from support could be a costly mistake. If Grey doesn't clarify, then I think we should Leave our green Korps with Second Korps. Alternatively, swap Second Korps and the Green Korps, as it seems like we'll have two separate battles going. One on the left, and one on the right. That way the rookies will be on the flank of the great clusterfuck, and I Korps can be in a position to assist/be assisted by them on the more open terrain.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:17
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warhammer651 posted:I was just about to say, actually. The wording in Grey's post just says "The Border", which could mean "Border of our deployment zone" or "French-German Border". Ah poo poo, if Grey says they can deploy anywhere south of the river Sombre, meaning that we will need to be making offensive maneuvers across the river to start  .Let's get confirmation from Grey, but I was totally under the assumption they would deploy south of River Paisne for some mysterious reason. If they can deploy up to the Sombre, then yeah it's back to the drawing board. JosefStalinator fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 8, 2015 23:41
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I guess it would also help if we had an estimate on the number of enemy forces, at least a rough one.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:46
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JosefStalinator posted:Ah poo poo, I didn't check the OP in the Allied thread - Grey says they can deploy anywhere south of the river Sombre, meaning that we will need to be making offensive maneuvers across the river to start The plan is still somewhat workable, but holy poo poo the right is going to be a clusterfuck. We may want to consider moving the green Korps to our left and achieving a breakthrough in all that open terrain. poo poo, if we want to go full  , we could put three Korps on our left to be our offensive, while one Korps forma defensive line on the central bridges. It would be one hell of a gamble, but if it worked we could swing round the allies flank and trap them. Or bypass them and gun for Paris.
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Mar 8, 2015 23:58
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warhammer651 posted:poo poo, if we want to go full I've always wondered what it would be like to actually make the right wing strong
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Mar 9, 2015 00:23
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gradenko_2000 posted:I've always wondered what it would be like to actually make the right wing strong SCHLIEFFEN VULT!
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Mar 9, 2015 00:30
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As a German officer I must say that gambits don't win wars, but if we went for a gambit, we should keep some reserves. What are the rules re. reserves, by the way?
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Mar 9, 2015 00:58
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Alright, in light of new information, I present to you some new plans! Since the entente can just wait to see what we do, I've included what I anticipate them to do, but obviously they can do whatever else they want or concentrate forces to stop our attacks. Fall Hünden  Hunden's focus is the Chemin de Putains, going hard with three divisions for the hill. This is risky as they'll likely deploy defensively with the bulk of their force and we may just get horribly destroyed attempting it, but if we succeed we control one of the most important positions on the map. This is a risky plan that is well within the spirit of killing many many Germans to take important strategic objectives! The green division remains in reserve, to be called in where necessary. The big flaw in this plan (aside from killing all our guys on the hill) is that the French could easily flank us by moving across the river on the far left or right flanks, and the Greens could delay but likely not prevent it. Fall Wagemut  Wagemut's focus is our right flank, over by the open area near froussardvillaires. This plan envisions us skipping the unfavorable terrain that the Chamin des Putains and Fourmiliere give us, and instead use the open terrain to maneuver southward as far as possible. The problem I envision is that we can be easily stopped at the Foret de Boronne if they retreat, but it makes useless whatever forces they put on the strategically important hills. The other big flaw is that it opens us up to flanking maneuvers by L'Usine de Pappillon, but I figure any reserves or future reinforcements we get will go there, so maybe the II. Korps can defend desperately till they arrive (assuming the French even focus forces there). Fall Langwelig  Langwelig is the boring, standard plan - we put one Korps at each crossing and either attack or defend (probably defend with the green Korps) until we get lucky and get a breakthrough. It's the safest of the plans and makes flanking rather difficult for the French, but it's not very daring, and what are we as Germans if we don't take risks? Fall Fluss  Fall Fluss is the opposite of Fall Wagemut - instead of concentrating our right flank, we concentrate left, with the goal of crossing the Paisne for an eventual grand flank maneuver. It is a bit more diluted in the sense that we have to put two Korps in defensive positions on our right, so it may not be as strong offensively as the other plans. There's still some risk of flanking at Usine d'Papillon. Thoughts, goons? My personal favorite plan is Fall Wagemut, but I'm open to whatever. The only thing that is bothersome is that the allies will probably just see which plan we favor and then deploy defensively, but who knows! I'll make a spreadsheet shortly to organize our command structure, and maybe we can get on IRC to further chat about our plans.
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Mar 9, 2015 01:32
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Field Promotion time. I will take IV Corps Now to look at where my pixels are on the map. And drink heavily before ordering y'all to charge. Also, the plan is to punch the french so hard they surrender. We'll be in Paris before Christmas. Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 01:46
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I don't like Fall Langwelig, in light of the new information, and I feel like Fall Hunden would just result in them retreating to the scond ridge. I think Fall Fluss has the best shot at success. Once the Entente Corps is pushed to Kubrick, one of the two Korps there will be in a good position to sweep down and occupy the larger secondary ridge while the second can continue pushing past kubrick and get a nice big flank going. Grey: Do Korps commanders actually control any of their units, or are Corps assets attached to one of the regiments in one of their 2 divisions? And it says divisional and korps asstes need to be assigned to regiments, but the guns are already in regiments? Do we assign them to one of the 4 regiments of infantry or are they their own thing? warhammer651 fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 01:53
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I'm for Hunden. If they retreat, so be it. This stage is about earning ground for the trench warfare of the remaining war, so even just gaining ground without crushing the enemy is good. This plan also allows for the fastest crossing of the river with the greatest force. Besides, if the French retreated, they would hardly improve their position. We need to move methodically and decisively, and force the French to either stand up and fight where they deployed (and where they determined to posses the greatest strength), or retreat, losing their initial advantage in the process. Clausewitz ftw. Furthermore, we previously established the ridges as the most important features of the map. Why should we then focus on plans that attack everywhere but towards the ridges?
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Mar 9, 2015 02:12
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BTW, the ruler is designed to work on a different level of zoom than what is provided in the OP. Would it be possible to either link a download of the map file you are using, or scale the ruler to correspond with the given 2000×1333 map?
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Mar 9, 2015 02:16
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steinrokkan posted:Furthermore, we previously established the ridges as the most important features of the map. Why should we then focus on plans that attack everywhere but towards the ridges? they are important if the battle is fought on them. If the battle is fought elsewhere they are less important.
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Mar 9, 2015 02:18
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warhammer651 posted:they are important if the battle is fought on them. If the battle is fought elsewhere they are less important. It's the other way around - the battle should be fought where there are important goals and features. The ridges provide overwatch over the other features of the battlefield while the other possible routes lead into obscured countryside without any inherent value. :germanmilitarydialectics: steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 02:20
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Are their any range bonuses to either artillery or Line of sight? Or movement penalties to fighting uphill?
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Mar 9, 2015 02:22
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