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   2 Goblins 1 Dragon also not legal in round 1's format IRC: #mtgoon on synirc It looks like goons playing magic on xmage has really started to take off (props to gang sines, bafh, mcmagic, and all the other awful people responsible for thunderdome)! But since we all know legacy is a dying format, we're gonna have to create our own fun, or go into Phyrexian Unlife trying. Therefore, we're gonna try to start a goon league/tournament of Build Your Own Standard.    You can make a deck around this with OD/RAV/7th for example! Too bad this won't be legal for round 1~~ (I shamelessly stole an invitational CYOS list from Frank Karsten) Keep in mind none of the pictures are actual legal decks whooops who did that. RULES: 2 Blocks + 1 Core set Blocks must be non-contiguous One block pre-M10 (alara or older), one block Post M10 (zen or newer) No ABRU because lol SIGNUPS Ramos - Masques/Scars/M13 black potus - Urza's/Scars/M12 Zoness - Ravnica/Zendikar/M11 The Lord of Hats - Lorwyn/Zendikar/M11 TheKingOfSprings - Mirrodin/Zendikar/M11 Irony Be My Shield - Urza's/Zendikar/9ED Aisar - Lorwyn/Zendikar/M11 Viscardus - Lorwyn/Zendikar/M11 suicidesteve - Urza's/Zendikar/M13 Wezlar - Lorwyn/Zendikar/M12 netcat - Mirrodin/Scars/8E or 9E Archenteron - Ravnica/Zendikar/M13 Cernunnos - Onslaught/Scars/M10 Sigma-X - Urza's/Khans/M11 Mince Pieface - Urza's/Innistrad/M13 Herr Tog - Invasion/Innistrad/M13 Unofficially renaming this to Battle for Zendikar. PLEASE POST BY 4/8 w/ a decklist 11:59 PDT IM BEHIND ON UPDATES GONNA CATCH UP Okay Decklists are going to go here please fix anything and also i haven't entered everything yet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/194EOjAMloTY9lbgfzYHv0DLAz0Mlu0iCzYL0q_S6nyQ/edit?usp=sharing Also there's this list here until I get off my lazy rear end and properly build that spreadsheet ROUND 1 DECKS: black potus posted:some kind o metagame ROUND 1 HALL OF FAME: Ramos with Infect TheKingOfSprings with Caw Blade Sigma-X with Sneak and Show suicidesteve with omni-tell Wild Card: someone ROUND 2 RULES CHANGES: TBD Zoness fucked around with this message at 08:10 on May 7, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 22:53
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Block Party or riot! Edit: Real post - whatever we do, I'm in. Why not?
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Mar 23, 2015 23:00
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Block Party is cool because in 2006 the same deck went 3-0 and 0-3, it is not a bad idea either since some strategies are spread through blocks and some are placed in sets.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:09
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So there'll be a point-buy system for sets? Have you determined the price for each set or a starting value yet? Start with ~500 points and give sets an average cost of 150 (varying by the power-level of the sets cards so Lorwyn and Theros sit above average because of Thoughtsieze and stuff like Kamigawa block ends up below average) (Coresets worth 100)? Maybe ban Block-Constructed and Legacy banned cards? Or we could just do a Build your own Standard league.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:10
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I think a non-unified format wherein we have X points / dollars to bid on sets for exclusive / semi-exclusive access (like top 2/3/4 highest bidders if we have a lot of folks) to that set would be difficult to organize logistically but would be pretty neat. Treat ABU as a single set, ignore Chronicles and any deck-based set like Battle Royale, Planechase, Commander. I think you could handle the bidding with several waves of blind bidding, like so: Each player has 100 points to bid (integers only for ease of math / to avoid dumb fractions and hurfdurf 3.00001 type bidding) e: ^^ I think properly evaluating the points cost of each set is a monumental task to balance properly, especially as the value of each set is indirectly related to the other sets available to the buyer. Round 1: everyone blind bids, assigning as many points in a "Max Bid" as they want to as many sets as they want. Round 1 results posted: the highest bidders for each set are lowered to the winning bid amount (ie, if I max bid 50, and the second bidder had 23, my max bid would be reduced to 24, or if I was the only bidder on fallen empires at 20 points, my winning bid would be 1), current winning bids and # of bidders for each set announced, money spent on winning bids is not returned but any unnecessary max bid money is returned to the bidder, then we get to bid it in... Round 2: everyone ups their bids with their remaining money Round 2 results posted: Round 3 bids / results (optional, depending on preferences / logistics of the event). Then everyone has a week to brew their deck and then we arrange matches.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:11
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Cernunnos posted:So there'll be a point-buy system for sets? A value system for sets right now is a WIP (I'm making a mental note to write a script to create price indices for sets similar to dawnglare but without looking at specific editions), I'm either going to shamelessly steal some other system or use something like dawnglare to make one if a variable price system is useful. I agree that a banlist will probably be needed but since the format changes quickly it'll be interesting to say - we should probably have players vote on bans and if you are using a card that gets banned mid-league you will earn some amount of gold to make up for it (for doing QA work) Zoness fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 23:13
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Auction system could work something like: Everyone has 200 McMagic bux. There's only 3 packs of every set in magic available. You bid you money on any number of sets. Any set where you're in the top 3 you get a randomly generated pack from that set. That is your pool to build a deck then fight other people. Every week the auction resets and you get income of 100 McMagic bucks. Of course, bookkeeping would be a nightmare with this setup. But it might be fun and somewhat self regulating (maybe). Also numbers pulled drastically out of my rear end. The "easy" idea is everyone plays with full card pool from 6 randomly generated sets. You start with 200 McMagic bux. You bet on outcomes and make X money per win. Highest total winner loses all their McMagic bucks but sets the next 6 sets. Rotations are 2 (3?) weeks. First 10 matches played pays out fully, then next 10 is 1/2(x) then 1/4(x) etc. It might be more interesting with a decklist rule, or pau 100 mcMagic bux to reset your decklist or something.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:14
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I'm the other horrible jerk working on this. One thing that I'd like to be able to consider in pricing sets if at all possible is how fun they'd be to play against (looking at you, NPH and ROE), but I have a feeling that that would be impractical. With a ban list, I have a feeling that it would just start at the Vintage B/R list and expand from there as it becomes necessary.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:21
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Namagem posted:With a ban list, I have a feeling that it would just start at the Vintage B/R list and expand from there as it becomes necessary. If there is a banned list I think it makes more sense to start from Legacy rather than Vintage. Vintage is a strange format, where cards like Burning Wish or Crop Rotation are restricted, but cards like Mishra's Workshop or Mana Drain are not.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:27
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Elyv posted:If there is a banned list I think it makes more sense to start from Legacy rather than Vintage. Vintage is a strange format, where cards like Burning Wish or Crop Rotation are restricted, but cards like Mishra's Workshop or Mana Drain are not. None of those cards are restricted. Burning Wish was taken off a while ago, and I don't know if Crop Rotation ever was. Mana Drain really isn't that good right now, and if you ban Workshops you're banning the only good, non-dredge deck that doesn't need the power 8, and probably making me go on a rampage. Pedantry aside, I agree. The legacy ban list is a better place to start.
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Mar 23, 2015 23:33
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suicidesteve posted:None of those cards are restricted. Burning Wish was taken off a while ago, and I don't know if Crop Rotation ever was. Mana Drain really isn't that good right now, and if you ban Workshops you're banning the only good, non-dredge deck that doesn't need the power 8, and probably making me go on a rampage. Crop Rotation was restricted at one point, iirc because it was Academies 2-5. I wasn't trying to say Drain or Workshop should be restricted in Vintage, just that they're very powerful cards that would be banned in just about any other format. I think we're basically agreeing here.
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Mar 24, 2015 00:01
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I'm all for unusual formats, but I'm kind of unconvinced that betting and "buying" sets would add much, personally. I worry that overcomplicating things increases the likelihood both of people dropping and of creating perverse incentives or feedback loops that end up hurting the overall experience for everyone. I really like the idea of Build-Your-Own-Standard or other novel formats, though, so I'm probably in either way.
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Mar 24, 2015 00:06
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Viscardus posted:I'm all for unusual formats, but I'm kind of unconvinced that betting and "buying" sets would add much, personally. I worry that overcomplicating things increases the likelihood both of people dropping and of creating perverse incentives or feedback loops that end up hurting the overall experience for everyone. Yeah I can't wait to win a big bet R1 and then have enough cash for a full-power Legacy list while everyone else is still struggling with the BYOF limitations. Or losing big and being irreparably far behind. I might be in for this, but then again I said the same thing the last time we did a unified build-your-own-standard and never ended up playing any games, so we'll see.
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Mar 24, 2015 00:15
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There was a tournament I heard of where they had a set list of historic decks, and players bid for these by offering to reduce their starting hand size. We could do something similar with blocks if there's a good online tool for bidding on things - basically, you can bid cards and life (as a tie-breaker) to try and get a "good" block, or you can just pick up a less good one for a much cheaper cost. Even the most degenerate block wouldn't be good if you had to start with zero cards in hand and 1 life, so this should allow us to self-regulate the power of each block.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 00:30
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There was a tournament I heard of where they had a set list of historic decks, and players bid for these by offering to reduce their starting hand size. We could do something similar with blocks if there's a good online tool for doing this - basically, you can bid cards and life (as a tie-breaker) to try and get a "good" block, or you can just pick up a less good one for a much cheaper cost. Even the most degenerate block wouldn't be good if you had to start with zero cards in hand and 1 life, so this should allow us to self-regulate the power of each block. Thats another invitational format - auction of the X. Bidding life/handsize is interesting but it's very hard to quantify vs deck power I feel like, especially for like life total in sneak and show or something. Also if someone had like infect bidding life seems really unfair for them (then again maybe it's not i dunno) Also reducing starting hand size feels "not fun" because magic is all about options (holy poo poo how R&D do i sound with this)
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Mar 24, 2015 00:34
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There was a tournament I heard of where they had a set list of historic decks, and players bid for these by offering to reduce their starting hand size. We could do something similar with blocks if there's a good online tool for bidding on things - basically, you can bid cards and life (as a tie-breaker) to try and get a "good" block, or you can just pick up a less good one for a much cheaper cost. Even the most degenerate block wouldn't be good if you had to start with zero cards in hand and 1 life, so this should allow us to self-regulate the power of each block. Yeah, this was a Maro thing. I seem to remember starting at 8 cards and 25 life, too. Anyway, I'll start the bidding. 0 cards 1 life, Necro. I'll prove you wrong! Elyv posted:I think we're basically agreeing here. We are. 
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Mar 24, 2015 00:36
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Well yeah it's hard to evaluate, doing so would be part of the fun/skill of the format and you get to choose how much you want to restrict your starting options in exchange for more powerful cards. Also if loads of people are just going to 1 life in the hope of comboing people out quickly I'd be happy to run a mono-red deck from pretty much any block
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Mar 24, 2015 00:51
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Mountain + Lightning Bolt, the ultimate two-card combo.
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Mar 24, 2015 00:58
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Viscardus posted:I'm all for unusual formats, but I'm kind of unconvinced that betting and "buying" sets would add much, personally. I worry that overcomplicating things increases the likelihood both of people dropping and of creating perverse incentives or feedback loops that end up hurting the overall experience for everyone. I agree that BYOS seems like the low-overhead, easy-access version of "custom magic" that we're looking for.
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Mar 24, 2015 01:47
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Yeah, this all reeks of over complication. I'd be up for a Build Your Own Standard with a Legacy banlist.
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Mar 24, 2015 02:06
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Ramos posted:Yeah, this all reeks of over complication. I'd be up for a Build Your Own Standard with a Legacy banlist. I'm okay with build your own standard but I don't know how long people want to stick to experimental stuff. Like, you obviously want to play the deck a few times, but how long do you want to stick with it? That's why I don't think it can really follow the one match a week thing the thunderdome events have done. That said, another idea is to do it like a goon invitational and just mix up random formats every few rounds. You bring up a good point though - I think it is important to be mindful of how much complexity is needed. Zoness fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 06:06
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Okay I slept on it and I really like the idea of just doing BYOS. Also changed the OP a bit with feedback in mind, please keep the Flow of Ideas coming. Zoness fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 16:42
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For those of us new to this sort of thing, what does BYOS stand for? Bring Your Own what? Set? How does that work?
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Mar 24, 2015 16:56
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Xir posted:For those of us new to this sort of thing, what does BYOS stand for? Bring Your Own what? Set? How does that work? Build Your Own Standard. We'll presumably start with 2 Blocks and a core-set and work our way from there.
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Mar 24, 2015 17:00
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Xir posted:For those of us new to this sort of thing, what does BYOS stand for? Bring Your Own what? Set? How does that work? Build your own standard. I think it's your choice of any 2 blocks and any core set.
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Mar 24, 2015 17:00
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Given that it's going to be a BYOS, here's a few idea's that I've come up with. -- Each player chooses a core set, one expert block before m10, and one non-contiguous expert block after m10. These are that player's pool. -- No ABU. Ever. (also no revised) -- Matches played on XMage, restrictions and all. -- Legacy ban-list -- Format -> 3 round swiss with a randomly determined bracket (via challonge) -- The winner chooses one set to add to every player's pool for the next season. -- Certain cards may be banned in addition to the legacy list. (looking at you, artifact lands.) Namagem fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 22:33
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Is that set or block? 3 sets is a very small card pool and while we may be able to make good decks we are likely going to have issues with building sideboards - for example the mirrodin / scars of mirrodin affinity deck will be fine but some blocks won't have any artifact removal beyond naturalize. If we go to blocks I would reccomend adding to the legacy banlist all of the standard bannings that happened after the third set in a block - ie artifact lands get banned but not stoneforge. Sigma-X fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 22:52
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core set + 2 blocks i believe
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Mar 24, 2015 23:00
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If it's Sets I'm gonna have to think on it a bit. If it's Blocks I think I'll go with M12, ONS, RTR. E: OK cool.
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Mar 24, 2015 23:01
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poo poo, I meant blocks for the first point.
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Mar 24, 2015 23:01
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I'll take Scars of Mirrodin, Mercadian Masques, M13, and a sweet, sweet opportunity to make up for a horrid mistake. Maybe, this will take some fine tuning. edit: Screw it, I stick by my instincts. Ramos fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 01:03
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can we use pre m1X coresets
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Mar 25, 2015 02:11
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black potus posted:can we use pre m1X coresets As long as it's not ABU yes.
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Mar 25, 2015 02:15
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I recommend adding Revised to that list of sets unavailable namely because it has the dual lands.
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Mar 25, 2015 02:32
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Ramos posted:I recommend adding Revised to that list of sets unavailable namely because it has the dual lands. And nothing else.
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Mar 25, 2015 02:40
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suicidesteve posted:And nothing else. Stasis, Dark Ritual, Swords to Plowshares, Mana Vault, Counterspell, Red Elemental Blast, etc, etc, etc. Things were pretty wacky back then basically. edit: Oh, Armageddon too. And Control Magic. And Winter Orb. Ramos fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 02:43
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I think banning ABUR would make the format feel radically different and feel more like a super standard rather than just lovely legacy, so I support that. You don't really lose anything beyond the duals that way.
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Mar 25, 2015 02:58
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Honestly ABRU seems fine if you're sticking to the Legacy banlist. I mean, what do you get? Fixing and removal? The lands are good, but I'm not sure they'll be overpowering considering what you're passing over in order to get them. (If someone manages to build a stasis deck, good on them, that's exactly the sort of shenanigans you're supposed to be getting out of BYOS.)
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Mar 25, 2015 03:07
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Jabor posted:Honestly ABRU seems fine if you're sticking to the Legacy banlist. I mean, what do you get? Fixing and removal? The lands are good, but I'm not sure they'll be overpowering considering what you're passing over in order to get them. (If someone manages to build a stasis deck, good on them, that's exactly the sort of shenanigans you're supposed to be getting out of BYOS.) What in any other core set is more exciting than dual lands?
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Mar 25, 2015 03:15
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i vote exclude abur
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Mar 25, 2015 03:21
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