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TheImmigrant posted:I find at-length discussion of medieval sexual mores a great way to pick up women in bars. Do you propose marriage to women in bars?
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Apr 2, 2015 14:54
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unlimited shrimp posted:If the meaning has completely changed and the old meaning is wholly irrelevant to modern life then why is an awareness of the history at all important? Why would it impact decision making? Nobody is perpetuating the old practice because the old practice is dead. What makes you think it's dead? Domestic violence over double standards of male vs. female infidelity happens every day.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:19
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Talmonis posted:It doesn't seem to be a double standard between individuals. The public may view it as a double standard and be more forgiving of men, which is repulsive; but most of the women I know would take revenge on a cheating spouse. Infidelity is not healthy for a monogamous relationship, regardless of who is doing it. Among yuppies it's less common, but it is absolutely a double standard for many individuals. Just because yuppies have cottoned onto something doesn't mean we should stop talking about it. We should keep talking about it until the full understanding of it is universal.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:46
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unlimited shrimp posted:I fail to see how the engagement ring ritual directly relates to domestic violence. Connotations are exactly what it carries. Like taking the name of your husband, it alludes to a time when women were viewed as property and violence was the socially and legally acceptable method of keeping your property in line. if you think that is a relic of the past, be glad you don't work in my field because the truth would depress you.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:55
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Obdicut posted:I haven't really followed the engagement ring discussion because I have SedanChair on ignore because he's crazy.. Better to be insane than crushingly tedious and willfully ignorant. Nobody said that it was a "big" deal, only that it is in fact a deal. And it's the legacy of a big deal, which is women being treated as property. We should talk about all issues, big and small, that relate to that issue.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:41
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Your English is wonderful, your ideas...
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Apr 2, 2015 18:56
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dogcrash truther posted:I mean really it's a bit like asserting that the reason they kept slaves in the South was because of their religious understanding of slavery and the economic effects were just a side-benefit. Many slave owners had convinced themselves of this, or at least publicly represented it to be their position.
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Apr 3, 2015 01:09
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The Insect Court posted:For example, engaging in online sockpuppeting by appropriating the identity of marginalized group in the attempt to give more weight to lovely ideas. Like MRA types who pretend to be women in comments sections and on twitter. Or white engaged in digital blackface who play on "magic negro' style black stereotypes about the superior spiritual sensitivity or authenticity of people of color. Haha no, those are terrible.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:43
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People seem determined to bring this back to white people getting Chinese tattoos.
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Apr 4, 2015 01:24
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Xibanya posted:On the whole engagement ring discussion, I don't think the practice has become totally pointless yet as some have theorized. I and most of my female friends would indeed desire an engagement ring because in our society women still have the most to lose from a relationship. Social implications like "used goods," etc aside, being in a long term relationship has economic costs for a woman. Basically, the fact that women tend to make less means it makes more sense to put all your eggs in the dude's career basket, leading to a vicious cycle where the male partner starts to make more and more than the female partner. That's the real cost to the woman if the relationship goes south. I know that I have given up some career opportunities in order to stay in the same locality so that my boyfriend can continue to advance in his own career. If he can't cough up a measly ring I can show my parents, colleagues, and friends if we get engaged, I'll feel humiliated. In other words, I'll end up giving up tens of thousands of dollars on his behalf. He should show how serious he is by tossing out a few thou to the altar of the diamond God or whatever. The problem is assuming that you will make less/have subordinate career goals to begin with. There's no reason for it, and even less reason to enshrine it in a slave ritual. If you want to marry somebody who isn't a loser that makes a lot of sense, but in that case taking a look at his books makes more sense than him going into debt for a ring (that's how rings are purchased now, totally destroying the value-demonstrating aspect of the ritual).
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Apr 5, 2015 15:10
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Josef bugman posted:Like in the example above, if you are wearing a war bonnet and are told to take it off because it is upsetting that is fairly simple example of being polite. What reasons do people have for continuing to wear one if they have been asked not to and they have just ignored it? Oh lots of stated reasons,  but no real one other than racism.
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Apr 7, 2015 07:32
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TheImmigrant posted:Yes. Thank you for putting this so succinctly. It's succinct but it's wrong. Failing to erase the knowledge of where things come from is not segregation.
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Apr 9, 2015 14:41
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I see no evidence of the disparity you are claiming in that video. The young fit guy talked a lot about American perceptions of Chinese food, but so did one of the older women. Nobody else really talked about it. But reading through some of the comments, it looks like a good number of people have decided that young American-born Chinese are too uppity and concerned with cultural appropriation. That says more about them than it does about anybody in the video. And I think the old dude was like "sweet more free food? Yes, I like this." 
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Apr 10, 2015 04:10
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blowfish posted:effectronica, serious question This, now, is what you've taken away from all this. This is your question. At this point it seems apparent to me that a certain type of white lived experience is literally a developmental disability. Or brain damage; it's like one of Oliver Sacks' patients who couldn't see the right side of their dinner plate. There are some things you'll never see.
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Apr 12, 2015 19:48
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blowfish posted:i am not technically white hth (you should know that) I can measure the density of the atmosphere by the predicted speed of your response, which I guessed in advance with 100% accuracy including the smilies and your spelling of the name of God.
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Apr 12, 2015 19:51
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he said jehova 
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blowfish posted:to reply or not to reply, that is the question No, I am now reconciled to the fact that I cannot explain how certain people experience whiteness in such a way that they literally cannot perceive arguments being made.
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Apr 12, 2015 19:58
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blowfish posted:ok thanks for admitting you are a dumb who is unable to actually make an argument (protip: it should be concise, consistent, and not complete crap) No, the argument has been made any number of times, both concisely and at length. You can't see it. You are lost.
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Apr 12, 2015 20:03
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blowfish posted:it's more fun if you're subtle about it It's About Fun
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Apr 12, 2015 20:08
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blowfish posted:yes how dare people have fun on the something awful dot com internet comedy forum, the place where serious discussion steers our ship of state I've made it already, but you can't see it.
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Apr 12, 2015 20:16
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This is good, normally it would be the pointless drama I have to keep dealing with in most situations but let's get into it a little bit. What sort of things have I posted about in this forum that have lead people to conclude that I identify as a black person? Well, I've made reference to it any number of times. I am biracial; my mother is white and my father was black. I have often mentioned "passing," or being light enough that many white people assume I am white. Sometimes I have made reference to the fact that because I can pass, I hear and see many things that are only brought up in the company of other whites. But as every racist poster rediscovers the fact that my skin is light, they treat it all at once as a revelation, and one undermining any point I may have made. Why is this? It's because they attribute mystical qualities to black men. They pictured me in their heads as the guy who played Wee Bay and felt intimidated. Likewise, they assumed that the only reason people put up with me is because I possess these mystical qualities; the qualities, in fact, that so permeate the phenomenon of cultural appropriation and lead to the transferral of creative authority from minorities to white people. Black men have natural, magical artistic and creative qualities; but under no circumstances are they to be credited for these qualities, they flow naturally from their race. When a white person masters their forms, that white person is to be congratulated as a synthesist and pioneer. They are to gain more wealth, more recognition, more of a place in the pages of history than the minorities they learned from. That's what cultural appropriation is. That's why the racism that perpetuates is unthinking. That's what has led to the amusing situation of the people who have pretended to come asking honest if naïve questions about the nature of cultural appropriation posting pictures of my skin.
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Apr 12, 2015 20:43
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blowfish posted:loving lol, you went "white people are retarded" so obviously i will post a picture of your flabby goony pasty hands holding a gun like a good 'merican because it is physically impossible for you to provide a better setup for a cheap shot Now hang on, where did I say "white people are retarded"? In addition to not seeing things that are there, do you see things that are not there?
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Apr 12, 2015 20:57
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So again, where did I say that?
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Apr 12, 2015 20:59
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Pavlov posted:Hello Cultural Appropriation thread. I have a friend who is an old white dude. He hand crafts birch-bark canoes using authentic native american methods. He like, sews them together with plant fiber and mystery forest-made glue because they didn't have nails. I have ridden in them and they are p. cool. How many appropriations has he committed? Does he turn a profit?
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Apr 13, 2015 04:19
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Pavlov posted:No. He is just a teacher who likes boats. Also trees. I think the school lets him use the wood-shop. I don't think so then. Maybe if he named it the "Geronimo" and sold it in stores. Miltank posted:A worthless distinction if ever there was one. A lot of this discussion has been about who makes money and who stays poor. But true to form, you can't see it, or at least are pretending not to see it.
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Apr 13, 2015 04:52
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The Insect Court posted:For those of you playing along at home, sedanchair is a goony white guy who at some point decided that pretending to be a black guy would give his incredibly lovely D&D one-liners more credibility and authenticity. Not sure if it's technically cultural appropriation however, since I don't think shitposting is a specifically African-American cultural heritage. Still, kind of ironic given the subject of the thread. This is the narrative I was referring to above. Racists treat black people differently, and assume that all D&D posters must as well. Therefore I have committed fraud by being light.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:33
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Armyman25 posted:Wow. That said, is it appropriation if a black man from Africa immigrates to the US and starts dressing in Hip Hop styles and speaking African American Vernacular English? No, and to suggest this could be the case is either deliberately pretending ignorance or the developmental disability I made reference to earlier.
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Apr 13, 2015 13:37
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Miltank posted:Lol, Indians don't need jobs handcrafting artisan canoes. Unemployment among Native Americans is pretty high. Any particular reason you say that, arbiter of what Indians need?
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Apr 13, 2015 14:41
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Miltank posted:They need meaningful employment in large numbers. So fix everything at once and ignore specific cases. What a nice way to consign yourself to placid inaction. I mean if Native Americans had greater control over the marketing of their cultural heritage, that might actually make a dent in poverty, but it's not enough all by itself, and it's not white father handing out factory jobs, so let me twiddle my thumbs. Let me twiddle my thumbs forever.
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Apr 13, 2015 14:58
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Yes, one guy, one canoe. That's literally all we're talking about. Miltank posted:If you think that is a rebuttal then I don't know what to say. How could we ever know what you know or do not know? The likes of you will always conceal their true thoughts, except for in "safe spaces."
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Apr 13, 2015 15:02
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Over and over and over again. Miltank posted:Whereas you know what they want and need. Now who said that? We're just asking questions. I swear, defenders of privilege are better at projection then anybody else.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:06
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Effectronica posted:Did I ever say that? He can't see you not saying it. Folks like this will always be coming from the perspective of controlling all of society and deciding for every minority. Arguments for minority self-determination simply cannot be perceived.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:13
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Miltank wearing a cowboy hat: "you can't leave, this is what you get for having such a filthy, debased condition" Miltank with literally nothing changed except for no cowboy hat: " oh my god what a filthy and debased condition! We have to destroy and eradicate the culture of this place at once, and scatter its inhabitants to the four winds" e: Miltank posted:I don't assume everyone wants to leave the rez. Nor would assume that all blacks want to leave the ghetto Because that's where "all blacks" live.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:22
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Oh but Miltank, one person leaving the rez won't fix anything so why are you even talking about it.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:05
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rudatron posted:If the ritual can have it's context changed without imposition, without harm being inflicted, then that means that that ritual bastardization is simply a normal result of how cultures interact and change over time. Or, in other words, the smaller culture can never preserve its integrity (even under the ideal conditions of 'no imposition') without great effort being expended to maintain it, constant political intervention and monitoring by people such as yourself. Why do that? *waves hands thoughtfully, takes money from your pockets*
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Apr 14, 2015 17:28
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hakimashou posted:What we have learned so far is that other cultures have value to the degree that they are exotic. This exoticness is referred to as "authenticity," where "authentic" is always used as a shorthand for "authentically exotic." Yes, this is the reasoning of the appropriators.
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Apr 15, 2015 16:14
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hakimashou posted:Well, "the appropriators" are pretty much almost everyone everywhere, in all times and places. No, all people participate in cultural exchange. Only the ignorant and racist are the appropriators.
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Apr 15, 2015 16:35
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hakimashou posted:That's an awful thing to say about North Americans, South Americans, Chinese, Japanese, British, Russian, Roman, Greek, Indian, Korean, Thai, Pacific Islander, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, Arab, Persian, and African people don't you think? You are completely failing to understand, or pretending ignorance (I suspect the latter). Only the ignorant and racist people in those cultures are the appropriators.
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Apr 15, 2015 16:40
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Miltank posted:Their is no difference. There is no difference you are willing to admit to, at least.
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Apr 15, 2015 16:41
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I'm happy to take a break from pretending not to understand racism to discuss my true passion, colossal utilitarian genocide.
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Apr 15, 2015 18:37
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Yes but Evangelical Christianity is not a real culture. I think you all take my meaning.
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Apr 15, 2015 19:14
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