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AndwhatIseeisme
Mar 30, 2010

Being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarrassment.
Fun Shoe

Astroman posted:

Just watched it, and man, he is the real deal. :allears:

We are so incredibly lucky to get him and Moffat running the show at the same time. It's a wonder they can get anything done between nerdily talking about Doctor Who all day.

One of these days they have got to get Capaldi, Moffat, RTD, and Tennant in the same room for a round of Doctor Who pub trivia. Video that and put it on the internet. :swoon:

If I ever had a chance to ask Capaldi or Moffat a question at a convention or an AMA or something, I'd ask them which of the 4 would win!

Does anyone have that video where their being asked who their favorite enemy in the show is, everyone gives super obvious answers like "Daleks" and "Cybermen", and then Capaldi names an obscure one-episode classic series alien? Capaldi gives thii amazing smirk, and Moffat is the only one on the stage who gets it and just starts cracking up.

AndwhatIseeisme fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jul 27, 2015

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:

Oh I agree with you, it was executed poorly. Like everything in that episode, and half the things in that season. I'm gonna go back to my classic cave now and watch some Power of the Daleks.

Dr. Gene Dango, MD..... or Dr Gene MUGABE, ZD? :aaa:

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

AndwhatIseeisme posted:

Does anyone have that video where their being asked who their favorite enemy in the show is, everyone gives super obvious answers like "Daleks" and "Cybermen", and then Capaldi names an obscure one-episode classic series alien? Capaldi gives thsi amazing smirk, and Moffat is the only one on the stage who gets it and just starts cracking up.

The Chumblies :D

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
Just finished Genesis of the Daleks and now watching the behind the scenes featurette.

Yeah, I think I'm a Philip Hinchcliffe guy.

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007

AndwhatIseeisme posted:

Does anyone have that video where their being asked who their favorite enemy in the show is, everyone gives super obvious answers like "Daleks" and "Cybermen", and then Capaldi names an obscure one-episode classic series alien? Capaldi gives thii amazing smirk, and Moffat is the only one on the stage who gets it and just starts cracking up.

Would gifs do?













(Although whoever captioned it didn't get "The Silence" right.)

Oh, here, ~5m48s in.

thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jul 27, 2015

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

I love Moffat's reaction in that clip.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

CobiWann posted:

Just finished Genesis of the Daleks and now watching the behind the scenes featurette.

Yeah, I think I'm a Philip Hinchcliffe guy.

Yeah, the Hinchcliffe/Holmes/Baker era was pretty drat special.

BottledBodhisvata
Jul 26, 2013

by Lowtax

Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:

I hated that episode so thoroughly I never gave it much thought, and I feel you're right (for the very most part) that people should be on their prescribed meds. But I think what the episode was trying to say was some children are prescribed certain medication because it helps them fit into the gears of society, and not because it's what best for them or well suited to their particular situation. They failed in communicating that however and it came across as a general "Don't trust pills kids!".

To be fair to the Doctor, literally every time somebody hears or sees things that nobody else can see, it's because of alien invaders or psychic powers or poo poo like that, so he's right to say she doesn't need pills.

It was also nice to see somebody perceived as mentally ill who wasn't a villain or an rear end in a top hat. So-called crazy people are villified enough in fiction, so it was nice to see at least an attempt to try and be more open-handed and accepting in an area most people aren't terribly concerned about acceptance within.

Proposition Joe
Oct 8, 2010

He was a good man
Calling it now, Season 9 is going to have a Chumblies episode.

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007

BottledBodhisvata posted:

To be fair to the Doctor, literally every time somebody hears or sees things that nobody else can see, it's because of alien invaders or psychic powers or poo poo like that, so he's right to say she doesn't need pills.

The criticism is aimed at the writers/producers, not at the Doctor.

BottledBodhisvata
Jul 26, 2013

by Lowtax

thexerox123 posted:

The criticism is aimed at the writers/producers, not at the Doctor.

Ah yes, fair enough. Well, as I said, I'm willing to say it was at least a nice attempt. That whole episode felt unbalanced and a bit dull overall, really, although I liked Clara's class.

Dr. Gene Dango MD
May 20, 2010

Fuck them other cats I'm running with my own wolfpack

Keep fronting like youse a thug and get ya dome pushed back

Jerusalem posted:

Dr. Gene Dango, MD..... or Dr Gene MUGABE, ZD? :aaa:
I would give a leg for all of Troughtons serials. Maybe both. Best Doctor, and over half of his stuff is gone! Whenever I get depressed over it I just remind myself it's a miracle any survive, and that reconstructions can still be drat good stories.

edit; My copy of Power of the Daleks has a werid buzzing noise throughout the episodes, can anyone link to a good version? I don't think youtube has every episode.

Dr. Gene Dango MD fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Jul 27, 2015

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮
Since we average around 1.3 discovered episodes a year, I like to think we'll have a complete set of Doctor Who by 2090.

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011

After starting my "watch every episode in order" quest over a year ago, now that I'm nearly done with The Wheel in Space I'm finally about to climb out of the pit of reconstructions. It'll be weird to actually SEE Pat-Doc and Jamie with some regularity now (sure there are still a few missing episodes, but it's a nice change of pace from "every single serial is mostly missing")

Power of the Daleks was definitely one of the best of the lost episodes that I heard, the sound design was genuinely creepy at times. As for the audio quality, I don't remember any buzzing noises specifically since I watched it months ago but weren't some of those audio tracks literally taken from people who held up tape recorders next to their TVs at home? If so there's probably not much that can be done about something like that.

Edit:

Gordon Shumway posted:

This is from a while back, but my favorite reconstructed serial is The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve, followed closely by Power of the Daleks.

The Myth Makers will always be #1 :colbert:

Tim Burns Effect fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jul 27, 2015

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

thexerox123 posted:

The criticism is aimed at the writers/producers, not at the Doctor.

I know we may slag off Moffat a lot, but on"Forst" I'd have expected a lot better from Frank Cottrell-Boyce, seeing as he's primarily a writer of children's fiction and all.


Jerusalem posted:

Dr. Gene Dango, MD..... or Dr Gene MUGABE, ZD? :aaa:

Mugabe was saying he wanted the white farmers back recently, wasn't he? Maybe he'd be up for a trade?

Logical1234
Dec 3, 2013

Pesky Splinter posted:

Give yourself over to Big Finish, too. Let it consume your soul.

So i actually did have a silly remark for the Big Finish soul consumption thing you made Pesky. But thing is, I'm beyond sleep deprived. I knew was writing some weird rear end response, and things got very weird. So here's the basic idea. Below is the post I made when finally got my sleep deprived head out of making a response to you Pesky Splinter. But if any of you DW dudes want to see what a very sleep deprived dude's subcinocous will make him write when he really isn't focusing, then you can skip past the Big Finish discussion. And see what exactly how being sleep deprived makes things weird. Got it? Good.


So Doctor Who.. right... I actually have been very curious about the Big Finish stuff. I've read books, played video games, watched TV, but I've never personally tried out Audio Dramas. I gather that's what Big Finish stuff is. Classic Doctors literally making new adventures in audio format. At least that's what I gathered. And since it's seems that slowly but surely modern Doctor Who monsters and characters are entering Big Finish in the recently announced stuff, this seems like the best time to get into Big Finish.

So sure, I'll check out Big Finish. I'm currently want some Eighth Doctor Big Finish stuff. Night of the Doctor made really want to see the stories that he did on Big Finish, since he never got his shot in a liveaction show after a really bad movie. Or was it one of those, painfully mediocre stories. I get conflicting reports honestly. Something to do with the Doctor being a half-human, thus making all the hardcore fans commit fanrage in threads.

Basically, reccomend me some Eighth Doctor Big Finish Audio Dramas, and once I fully check them out each at time, I'll try to do those reviews I've some DW fans do on this thread. Anyways, good to see you all and thanks for all the help......
.....
.....

WHAT I ORIGINALLY PLANNED TO SAY FIRST

Pesky Splinter posted:

Give yourself over to Big Finish, too. Let it consume your soul.

Really wish I could, by I sold my soul to the Nogitsune a week ago. Had to resurrect the Teen Wolf thread and all that.

[Really? Really. Your doing this? Your in Doctor Who thread, a Sci-Fi show about ALIENS, And you talking about Teen Wolf. What is the point of that meaningless reference? ]

I just wrote that really without thinking... am I talking to myself?

[Are you hearing a voice in your head?]

Not really.

[Then no. See this always happens. This is the problem that occurs whenever you don't get enough sleep. Because it leads to utter confusion. You get the idea to try break the fourth wall in a badly written story, Your doing right now with me. But now your doing it in a forum. It isn't that your so tired you don't know any better.You just want to write a fourth wall breaking story that weirds out, and possibly amuse.. some of the goons in the forums But your still freaking tired. So you are trying to kill to birds with one character. You writing me as a character, who is self-insert of your freaking common sense and logic, LOGICAL, so you get to do your weird as metafictional, trippy dialogue thing. Do you get it now?]

.........I have no idea what I just wrote in that dialogue of yours.

[EXACTLY!]




{And literally that's when I stopped writing whatever my train thought was, and just focused on writing my question on the Big Finish stuff. I m only even posting this thing because... I honestly kinda find it freaking hilarious re-reading it with more focus,

. I wrote a bunch of words and sentences that sound like the ravings of a madman. So please, laugh at my...utterly incomprehensible sleep deprived discussion with myself as a fictional character. I think it's a riot. So yeah, recommend me the best Eigthth Doctor Big Finish stuff, and if you need me, I'm gonna be getting some freaking well-needed sleep...and hopefully, I won't be banned when I wake up.}

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Logical1234 posted:

So sure, I'll check out Big Finish. I'm currently want some Eighth Doctor Big Finish stuff. Night of the Doctor made really want to see the stories that he did on Big Finish, since he never got his shot in a liveaction show after a really bad movie. Or was it one of those, painfully mediocre stories. I get conflicting reports honestly. Something to do with the Doctor being a half-human, thus making all the hardcore fans commit fanrage in threads.

The movie is an odd product of mid-nineties science-fiction television; it tries to function as a pilot for a reimagined take on the series while maintaining its connection with the 1963-1989 series.

Nevertheless, Paul McGann is good in it and Eric Roberts drezzzzes for the occasion.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

BottledBodhisvata posted:

It was also nice to see somebody perceived as mentally ill who wasn't a villain or an rear end in a top hat. So-called crazy people are villified enough in fiction, so it was nice to see at least an attempt to try and be more open-handed and accepting in an area most people aren't terribly concerned about acceptance within.

Among many other fantastic things, Masters of War featured a character with a mood disorder who took daily medication. The Doctor understood this as a medical condition, and it never resulted in "crazy person" behavior over the course of the story.
:pusheen:

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!

Logical1234 posted:

The drugs you're on. GIVE. THEM. TO. ME.

It's quite simple, really.

I can only speak for the "Main Range" of audios, where the Eighth Doctor has several 2-hour dramas. But if you want the absolute best, distilled version of those stories...

Storm Warning - Eight's "return" as well as the introduction of Charlotte Pollard, Eight's first full-blown companion (no offense to Grace). It's a decent story, suffers a bit from the flaw of "it's an audio, so we have to describe EVERYTHING," but it's where you should start.

The Chimes of Midnight - my favorite Who story ever, to tell you any more would risk an accidental spoiler. Written by the gentleman who penned the Nine TV story Dalek. Storm Warning sets up a key plot point, but the story does a good job filling in the blanks if you've never heard it.

Seasons of Fear - another Eight/Charley story, a stand-alone adventure that can also serve as a good introduction where the Doctor chases an enemy through four eras of history - an enemy he hasn't quite met yet!

Neverland - this story closes the first big story arc for Eight and Charley. It's really good, sees the return of Romana II (Lala Ward), and the Doctor pulls off a really neat trick with the TARDIS at the end.

I could go on and on and on, but I'll stop myself there. You can find these stories at Big Finish for 3 bucks a pop for download, and they each clock in at about two hours (I think Neverland, being a season finale, is a bit longer).

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.

Logical1234 posted:

So sure, I'll check out Big Finish. I'm currently want some Eighth Doctor Big Finish stuff. Night of the Doctor made really want to see the stories that he did on Big Finish, since he never got his shot in a liveaction show after a really bad movie. Or was it one of those, painfully mediocre stories. I get conflicting reports honestly. Something to do with the Doctor being a half-human, thus making all the hardcore fans commit fanrage in threads.

Basically, reccomend me some Eighth Doctor Big Finish Audio Dramas, and once I fully check them out each at time, I'll try to do those reviews I've some DW fans do on this thread. Anyways, good to see you all and thanks for all the help......


Have you got some kind of thing I could PM you on?

---

In addition to CobiWann's recommendations (he and Jerusalem have been working their way through reviewing the audios - with insightful comments), from the Eighth Doctor Adventures (they gave him his own special series outside of their monthly releases with the other doctors);
Human Resources (1 & 2), The Book of Kells, Lucie Miller & To the Death, and Dark Eyes.

Obviously the preferred way is working through the all stories, to see the plot threads and character arcs move through them, but just as a highlights reel, what Cobiwann said, and the above.

For the audios in general, like the tv show, they veer all over the place in terms of quality and genre, so it boils down to what you personally like - camp, historicals, pure sci-fi, etc.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Doctor Who Season 8 is being added to Netflix August 8th.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Pesky Splinter posted:

Human Resources (1 & 2)

Season 1 of the Eighth Doctor Adventures would have been a pleasant if unremarkable diversion if it wasn't for this 2-parter. It's sooooo good.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck

Jerusalem posted:

Season 1 of the Eighth Doctor Adventures would have been a pleasant if unremarkable diversion if it wasn't for this 2-parter. It's sooooo good.

It's definitely a welcome change from the previous Eight story where a monsters show up halfway through. I have no idea how Big Finish can pull off something like Human Resources and then still be resorting to the old "monster in the title shows up at the beginning of the first cliffhanger."

Now I want to listen to Human Resources again.

IceAgeComing
Jan 29, 2013

pretty fucking embarrassing to watch
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if the writers submit scripts with interesting titles to try and hide the villains, but then they're changed to "Blood of the Daleks" or whatever because its easier to market

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009
If your Dalek story isn't named "______ of the Daleks" then you should go back to your keyboard and start again.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

Gaz-L posted:

If your Dalek story isn't named "OH poo poo IT'S THE DALEKS" then you should go back to your keyboard and start again.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!





Gaz-L posted:

If your Dalek story isn't named "______ of the Daleks" then you should go back to your keyboard and start again.

Considering that the two best Dalek episodes of the new series don't follow that pattern and the ones that do suck, I'd revise that maxim if I were you.

cargohills
Apr 18, 2014

"Dalek" and "Into the Dalek" are, in fact, close enough that it still counts.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Gaz-L posted:

If your Dalek story isn't named "______ of the Daleks" then you should go back to your keyboard and start again.

Frontier in Space :getin:

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!

Gaz-L posted:

If your Dalek story isn't named "______ of the Daleks" then you should go back to your keyboard and start again.

Jubilee

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!


The Time Lords intercept the transmat beam from Earth to Nerva and strand the Doctor, Sarah Jane, and harry on the planet Skaro in an era before the Daleks evolved.

Before the travelers are allowed to return to the TARDIS, the Doctor must fulfill a daunting mission – to change the course of evolution itself...

Tom Baker is the Doctor in Genesis of the Daleks.

X X X X X

Cast
The Doctor - Tom Baker
Sarah Jane Smith - Elisabeth Sladen
Harry Sullivan - Ian Marter
Davros – Michael Wisher
Nyder – Peter Miles
Sevrin – Stephen Yardley
Bettan – Harriet Philpin
Gharman – Dennis Chinnery
Ronson – James Garbutt
Ravon – Guy Siner
Gerrill – Jeremy Chandler
Tane – Drew Wood
Kravos – Andrew Johns
Kavell – Tom Georgeson
Mogran – Ivor Roberts
Kaled Leader - Richard Reeves
Kaled Guard - Peter Mantle
Thal Politician – Michael Lynch
Thal Soldiers - Pat Gorman, Hilary Minster, John Gleeson
Thal Guard - Max Faulkner
Daleks – John Scott Martin, Cy Town, Keith Ashley
Dalek Voices – Roy Skelton
Time Lord - John Franklyn-Robbins

Producer: Philip Hinchcliffe
Writer: Terry Nation
Director: David Maloney
Original Broadcast: 8 March – 12 April 1975

Trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq-XLK_O90w

X X X X X



We're just going to get this moment out of the way right now because as silly as this scene is, it only serves to highlight just how amazing everything else is about Genesis of the Daleks. A serial that routinely appears on any list containing the words “best Doctor Who story ever,” Genesis clicks on every level – a cracker script by Terry Nation, nail biting cliffhangers, strong and memorable secondary characters including the introduction of one of Who's iconic villains, and an iconic moment not just for the Fourth Doctor, but for any and all incarnations of the wayward Time Lord.

A trip from Earth to Nerva goes awry when the Doctor finds himself on the planet Skaro thanks to the meddling of his fellow Time Lords. The Time Lords have foreseen a future where the Daleks have become the supreme race in the universe after exterminating all other life forms. At this moment in time the Daleks are vulnerable, an instant the Doctor can exploit to either guide their evolution upon less destructive paths...or destroy them in the cradle. The task seems impossible – Skaro is in the dying days of a destructive war between the Thals and the Kaleds, both sides incapable of mercy and willing to do anything for a military advantage. And the advantage lies with the Kaldes, thanks to their lead scientist Davros and his development of a armored personal battle transport...

In 1974, during their final days on Doctor Who, Terrance Dicks and Barry Letts commissioned a script from Terry Nation containing his creation, the Daleks. The script Nation submitted was familiar to Dicks and Letts...in fact, Nation had unwittingly sold them the very same script twice before, with the same concepts, themes, and plot points! After a good laugh between the three, Letts suggested something different, telling Nation “we've never seen the genesis of the Daleks.” Nation took his words to heart, calling his new submission Genesis of the Daleks.

Nation's script is one of the best ever produced in the entire history of the show. The Thousand Year War between the Thals and the Kaleds is portrayed as as a mix of World War One (gas masks, trenches, rifles), World War Two (both sides are totalitarian governments committed to total victory, with the Kaleds being Nazis in all but name per their black uniforms, fascist salute, and interest in genetics) and World War Three (a mismatch of equipment, low supplies, mutated creatures in the wasteland, and a ballistic missile bringing the last hope of victory). It's an incredibly grim script, with two nations at the end of the civilized rope and spending their last days fashioning into a noose, with all the hand-wringing and false bravado that goes with it. Nation's script avoids putting one side in the “white hat” and the other in the “black hat,” as both sides are capable of horrific acts, from the Kaled's immoral experiments to the Thals using expendable slave labor to load their final rocket with a substance so lethal that just handling it for a few hours causes death. There are also a load of memorable secondary and tertiary characters, from the fanatically dedicated Kaled General Ravon (Guy Siner, best known for his part in 'Allo 'Allo!) to the scientist who finds his backbone Ronson (James Garbutt) to the leader of the rebellion Gharman (Dennis Chinnery) to the brave Muto Sevrin (Stephen Yardley, who also starred in Vengeance on Varos). Perhaps the most memorable of these characters is the Himmler-esque sneering, bespectacled Nyder, right hand man to Davros. Veteran actor of stage and screen Peter Miles (who also starred in The Silurians, Invasion of the Dinosaurs, and one of the first Big Finish audios, Whispers of Terror) channels the Nazi leader without any hint of camp; a rigid demeanor, cold attitude, and surprising charisma which he uses to convince his enemies to confide in him.

The Sontaran Experiment was partially conceived by Philip Hinchcliffe as a way to save some money. There's a drat good chance that money went into the production of Genesis of the Daleks because this is an absolutely gorgeous looking serial, even after 40+ years. The studio lighting by Duncan Brown is superb, helping to the various corridors look different as well as casting sinister shadows on the wall as the Daleks roll past. The lighting on the outdoor trenches, a green and purple sky that suggest sunset against a chemical sky, adds to the awe and terror of a group of patrolling Daleks. Director David Maloney also helps to make the Daleks look much more mobile and fluid in this serial. While there's still the budgetary problem of three Daleks standing in for a whole army of them, Maloney shoots the Daleks from a low angle as they move, suggesting a sense of speed and determination as they roll through a scene. In every shot, they are the centerpiece, dominating the viewer's field of vision as they stand motionless. Roy Skelton handles their voices, suggesting an alpha Dalek with a low tone, a beta Dalek with a neutral tone, and a delta Dalek with a high pitched tone as it screams to be noticed. Maloney's directing helps to ensure that the six-part story doesn't drag, keeping the story moving along. While there is some corridor running and some “capture/escape/repeat,” there's little actual padding as the story moves from “military adventure” to “spy thriller” to “rise of rebellion” with ease. The cliffhangers as well are standouts, with my favorites being Sarah's at the end of the second episode and Davros' screaming at the end of the fourth one.

The companions get plenty to do in Genesis of the Daleks as well. We get a lot of the Doctor and Harry pulling a double act through the first half of the story, and I once again find Ian Mater's Royal Navy surgeon growing on me. He's British through and through, never complaining, never showing his pain from having his ankle bitten by a giant clam, quick to grab a gun but not to fire it, coaxing Ronson to rebellion, and in one of my favorite moments of my Baker-watch so far, finding the guy to an armory locker while the Doctor bangs against in vain, handing it over to him without so much as a word or comment. The next story, Revenge of the Cybermen, is the one that cements Harry's legacy as a bumbling imbecile, and based upon his performances in The Ark in Space, The Sontaran Experiment, and now this story it's a drat shame. On the other side of the TARDIS, Sarah Jane gets a lot more to do in this story, bringing the Mutos to life in an attempt to escape from Thal captivity, quaking with fear when she sees a Dalek both in and out of its battle armor, and serving as the audience stand-in as she tries to convince the Doctor to end the Daleks before they can even begin. Elisabeth Sladen channels Sarah Jane's fear of the Daleks, having seen them at their worst during her time with the Third Doctor in Death to the Daleks, to wonderful effect.



The beginning of Genesis of the Daleks sees the same manic, devil-may-care Doctor that Tom Baker had wonderfully portrayed throughout three stories, from bantering with Harry over getting some refreshments from their captors (“no tea, Harry”) to breaking into the Thal dome to rescue Sarah Jane (“Excuse me, can you help me? I'm a spy.”). But when the Doctor believes Sarah Jane and Harry have died at the beginning of the fourth episode, all kidding around stops. Much like we saw the switch get flipped in The Sontaran Experiment, the back end of Genesis of the Daleks sees a determined Doctor, one who will do what he can to end the Dalek menace. But there's a difference between stopping a Sontaran invasion and complete genocide. At the pivotal moment, when the Doctor has the very means to destroy the Daleks once and for all in his hands...he remembers just who he is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PXdwqlJ19U

“Coward, any day,” the Ninth Doctor said when he had the same choice, a man who might do horrible things and cause people to die, but would never take their final step, absolute genocide. This is the Doctor, a man who even when things are at their worst and the chips are done, the ends can and will never justify the means. With Sarah Jane screaming at him to end things (and Harry wisely deciding to stay the hell out of this argument), Baker shows the anguish that the Doctor is feeling. A man who walks in eternity, he knows what the Daleks will do, but he also knows what their presence is capable of doing – uniting planets, species who would never otherwise ally, against them. Now, considering Nation has given us a creature without conscience, without pity, without mercy, it might seem that the choice is incredibly clear. But the Doctor lives and dies by that thin thread of hope, that even when the odds are one in a thousand, he will grab that thread and pull on it for all it's worth. His relief when it turns out he doesn't have to touch the wires together is a quiet moment of great acting from Tom Baker, understated because the Doctor is emotionally exhausted from the weight of the decision he almost had to make.

Davros. For a very long time, the story of the Daleks became the story of Davros, as future appearances of the Daleks in the classic series would involve their creator as well. And there's a reason for this, as Michael Wisher's performance as Davros is absolutely incredible. Putting aside the top-notch make-up and costuming job by John Friedlander and Sylvia James to create and apply the Davros costume, Wisher is everything one expects in a villain; calculating, manipulative, and absolutely dedicated in his beliefs. Speaking from a fan of both comic books and professional wrestling, the best villains are the ones who believe they are completely in the right, that their actions and words are completely and utterly justified There's a moment in the fifth episode where the Doctor asks Davros what he would do if he had absolute power over life and death. Davros' response is one of the iconic moments in the show's history.

https://youtu.be/dkelV2WUNdw?t=51

Wisher prepared for the part of Davros by rehearsing with a paper bag over his head to simulate the claustrophobia of the Davros mask. This allowed him to act solely through his voice, without worrying about any other facial expressions that might lead his performance into farce or camp. The performance Wisher gives as a result is chilling and terrifying. Even when speaking softly in an attempt (or a ruse) at being conciliatory or screaming for the same pity that he chose not to instill in his creations, there is an underlying menace to his words. There's no coincidence that the Daleks sound like their creator, especially when he screams in anger. And you can't forget his hand, scarred, misshapen, long fingernails pressing buttons and flipping switches in his own transport device, one that looks like the bottom half of a Dalek. Wisher just nails the performance, that's really the best way to put it, and while this would be the only time Wisher portrayed Davros due to theater commitments, his turn in Genesis of the Daleks can be seen and heard in every other actor's performance as the mad creator of the Daleks.

Cygnia posted:

I never hid behind my couch as a kid!

Mind you, it was because we never had ROOM behind the couch, but still...

The Daleks shouldn't have worked as a bad guy.  Go up a flight of stairs, duck under the plunger, threat averted!  And yet, on the backdrop of a horrific world war, this was my introduction to the most iconic monster from Doctor Who.  What a doozy.  Even after all these years (giant mutant clams aside), it's still a chilling tale.  I don't know how many times I saw it on repeat as a kid, but I can tell you my heart kept sinking EVERY TIME Sarah Jane tried to escape that climb up the rocket.

You want to know why Sarah Jane freaked out during "The Stolen Earth" when she heard Davros?  This story is why.  She was there at the Daleks' beginning and saw the full horror of what they would become.  Weigh all of that between the Doctor's (justifiably classic) "Do I have the right?" speech and Davros gleefully admitting he'd break open a capsule that would kill everyone in the universe.

On a lighter note, scary as he was, I still wanted to flip all the switches and push all the buttons on Davros' chair.

Genesis of the Daleks is a grim story, one that drove moral guardian Mary Whitehouse up a wall as she referred to the episode as “teatime brutality for tots.” But there's no denying this story's impact on all of Doctor Who. Every aspect of this serial is superb, all coming together and clicking in a story with tension, moral dilemma, and a top notch villain, tied together by great directing and lightning. There's a reason Genesis of the Daleks is remember so highly almost 40 years are its initial broadcast. It's THAT good.

Random Thoughts
- I make fun of it in the introduction, but the clam was described as “one of Davros' failed experiments.” And now I want Daleks riding into battle strapped inside giant battle clams.
- The Doctor just looks so broken after the Thal missile attack, when he believes Harry and Sarah Jane are dead. This helps to explain why he's so eager to spill his guts to Davros later on when the scientist threatens to torture his companions unless he talks.
- The Doctor tells Bettan, one of the surviving Thals, that she needs to put together a resistance to fight back against the Daleks. Foreshadowing of Davros' comments in Journey's End about how the Doctor takes his companions and transforms them into soldiers?
- As Cygnia said, the chair was pretty freakin' cool, wasn't it?

Cobi's synopsisGenesis of the Daleks is a story that deserves the sobriquet “classic.” A superb script, memorable secondary characters, and some smashing lighting work mix with the introduction of Davros, the return of the Daleks, and one of the Doctor's greatest moral dilemmas.

Next up – Expecting to be reunited with the TARDIS, the Doctor stumbles upon the last battle between humanity and one of its most terrifying foes...

Tom Baker is the Doctor in...Revenge of the Cybermen

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Yeah, there are only so many ways I can say it, but Genesis of the Daleks is simply amazing - every time I see it I'm struck by how it immediately grabs you by the throat and doesn't let up till the final credits roll. A chill goes down my spine every time we get to the end of the story and I remember the trapped Daleks screaming that they will rebuild and wait until the time comes when they can emerge and conquer EVERYTHING. It's also well served by the Doctor's hopeful note that out of the Daleks' great evil, great good can come - the characterization is just spot on for everybody, nothing really feels wasted.

Of course, the giant clam is there too, but some people love that, and even if they don't one blemish just makes how great every other part of it is stand out.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."
Genesis is so genuinely amazing at what it does, portraying the last days of a long, dirty war of attrition, where the sides are both one step from fighting with sharp sticks. It's a remarkably bleak and brutal look at the horrors of war, and by making both sides ostensibly human (-looking, anyway) it brings home the effects of war and fascism in an uncomfortably bright light, and for children no less. Compound this with the then-contemporary reality that nuclear war might break out at any time, makes this all the more terrifying.

NuWho could definitely do with a story this grim, and who knows, with Capaldi we might get it.

PriorMarcus
Oct 17, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY

Yeah... Season Nine spoiler: Its a shame Moffat is revisiting the events of that episode and changing them as the big plot hook for this season.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

PriorMarcus posted:

Yeah... Season Nine spoiler: Its a shame Moffat is revisiting the events of that episode and changing them as the big plot hook for this season.

that's a joke right hahahahaha right no right yeah hahahaha no right

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

PriorMarcus posted:

Yeah... Season Nine spoiler: Its a shame Moffat is revisiting the events of that episode and changing them as the big plot hook for this season.

Wait, do you mean Hide or Genesis?

Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jul 29, 2015

Pocky In My Pocket
Jan 27, 2005

Giant robots shouldn't fight!






Moving this to spoiler thread!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Short Synopsis: The Doctor prevents a genocide, but more importantly Lucie gets a job on Top Gear.

Long Synopsis: The Doctor takes Lucie to the space equivalent of an Auto Show where they witness the death of a presenter of popular spaceship-enthusiast show "Max Warp". An investigation reveals all is not as it seems, as the seemingly trivial show ends up having enormous significance in diplomatic relations between two formerly warring races. The Doctor gets to play Poirot, some sponge-trees get miffed, Space Jeremy Clarkson is a racist, Space James May wants to get his end away with Lucie, and the Space President has a lovely PR adviser.

What's Good:

  • Paul McGann. As the 8th Doctor, he seems to revel in this episode's inherent silliness/camp factor and gleefully goes along for the ride. There is a sense that he pretty much has everything figured out from the beginning, short of a few of the details, but is mostly playing along to confirm his suspicions. It does give the 8th Doctor a real sense of fun, and McGann seems to be thoroughly enjoying himself in his performance. Of course, this does raise questions about it being a bit lovely to just play along when people are dying, but this is an issue addressed in the resolution, as the Doctor reveals that nobody (that I can remember) has actually died throughout the entire story.

  • Sheridan Smith. Lucie is just a lot of fun in this episode, especially in her interactions with the Doctor. As he plays Detective, she gets in on the fun by just throwing wild "deductions" out there as the Doctor wearily points out that you can't just wildly throw out speculation based on nothing but,"Hey what if? :haw:" - she's excellent comic relief, but gets to have her own time in the sun as she becomes a fill-in presenter for Max Warp and helps the Clarkson/May parodies actually demonstrate at least a little more depth... well, Space-Clarkson at least. She enables him to prove he's not just a one-dimensional bigot going through a lengthy mid-life crisis.

  • The parody is spot on. This is very, very, very, very obviously a Top Gear parody and your feelings on the merits of that aside, the execution is well handled. While the Hammond character is mostly absent from the story, the Clarkson/May parodies are well done, capturing the bombastic personality of Clarkson and the earnest enthusiasm/vintage love of May well while exaggerating their traits for the purposes of caricature. The theme song is an obvious take on Top Gear's own, the format of the show is familiar to even a cursory viewer, even the complaints (sexist, xenophobic and far too laddish) made about the show would be familiar to anyone with a passing familiarity with Top Gear as a concept.

  • The concept of the Kith. They're bizarre "sponges" that also appear to share some features of trees - too often in Big Finish the alien races are the same basic humanoid types we see due to the budgetary limitations in the television series (as are the "Varlon" race in this story, they're basically just human beings). Given that Big Finish is audio only, budgetary considerations don't need to take account of things like,"What you're describing on paper is literally impossible to conceive on the screen" but all too often the writers seem to play it safe, or just go for bigger humanoids with a dash of a particular animal species thrown into the mix. Let things get weird, like the giant floating baby heads in UNIT: Dominion or the screaming mouth full of billions of species-that-never-were in The Nowhere Place. In that respect, making the Kith utterly bizarre and alien serves well both as taking advantage of the audio format as well as making the human uneasiness/xenophobia feel more understandable. After all, it's fairly easy to accept something that mostly looks like you, but something utterly alien in appearance and biology? It's very easy to "other" that, which in turn makes the story ring (depressingly true) when characters exhibit bigotry towards the aliens. The aliens are pompous themselves, but not in the over-the-top, possibly anti-immigrant writing style of the Slithergees in Flip-Flop.

What's Not:

  • The execution of the Kith. For all the kind words about how cool it is to see Big Finish getting weird with the concept of this alien race, the sad fact is they don't execute that idea particularly well. Perhaps it is simply a failing on my own part, but it was very difficult to get any sense of what exactly the Kith were supposed to physically be like. That's all well and good for the alien nature of their species, except the audio tries to have its cake and eat it too by having a Kith disguise itself successfully as a human, and then later as a Public-Relations Robot working for the President. The descriptions of the Kith are vague and sketchy, parts of them are described in some detail but the rest left unspecified, which allows them to fit into whatever part of the story the writer would like, but leaves them feeling unfinished... or worse, that the writer lacked the imagination to pull the species off.

  • The Top Gear parody. Parody is all well and good, but in stuff like Doctor Who it usually works best as a brief bit of humor, as opposed to being the bulk of an entire storyline. Top Gear is an enormously popular show but it's not for everyone, I've certainly only seen a few bits here and there from various episodes and that was enough for me - getting a complete episode of Who dedicated to the joke of,"This is just like Top Gear!" left me feeling a little flat. In the opposite to my feelings about the Kith, here I think the concept was "meh" but the execution of that concept was extremely well done. Also, by so clearly basing the characters on pre-existing people, it raises the issue of being rather offensive - Space James May is a sad sack who tries to clumsily seduce Lucie, while Space Jeremy Clarkson is a xenophobic would-be mass murderer who attempts to genocide an entire race. With a joke like this, either you like it or you don't, and if you don't you've got 45 minutes or so to put up with it before it is over.

  • The Supporting Characters. They're paper-thin and entirely unremarkable. The most interesting thing about the Security Officer is that she's voiced by Katarina Olsson, who has become a regular fixture of The Eigth Doctor Adventures. The President is just as weak a character, and considering her lofty position and the seriousness of the developing situation, her complete lack of security is pretty appalling, making it seem more like she's some small-town politician or local celebrity as opposed to the most powerful Varlon in the galaxy.

Final Thoughts:

Max Warp is a parody well executed but stretched thin. Anchored by strong performances by Paul McGann and Sheridan Smith, it's let down by thin supporting characters and a failure to realize the true alien nature of the Kith. There is an important message about xenophobia and the long-lasting impact of war, but it is muddied and easily missed. The parody aspect is the selling point of the story, and it lives or dies based on how the listener feels about that. For me, it wasn't quite enough to make it a particularly memorable story, but at least it sounds like McGann was having a lot of fun.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
Parody is fine, but not if it becomes a bit mean spirited, which is why The One Doctor is an audio classic and Bang-Bang-A-Boom! just seems like one big long joke at Deep Space Nine’s/Babylon 5’s expense.

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Sad King Billy
Jan 27, 2006

Thats three of ours innit...to one of yours. You know mate I really think we ought to even up the average!
One thing about Genesis that wasn't mentioned in the review, I think Robert Holmes did a lot of rewrites and fleshing out of the story, that tale is as much his as Terry Nations.

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