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So this is basically locals upset about foreigners banging their women and having mixed-race children?
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Apr 7, 2015 23:58
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Randarkman posted:So this is basically locals upset about foreigners banging their women and having mixed-race children?
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Apr 8, 2015 00:07
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Randarkman posted:So this is basically locals upset about foreigners banging their women and having mixed-race children? It's NIMBYism, but because they're complaining about the US military it's fine and good.
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Apr 8, 2015 00:19
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Rent-A-Cop posted:A lot of Japan is just generally kind of upset that foreigners exist. This cannot be understated. Japan is one of the most racist places on the planet.
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Apr 8, 2015 00:19
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This is what happens when you try to take over Asia and are forced to sign an unconditional surrender. Suck it up OP. Also with the whole Russia/China thing, the bases being there are a pretty good thing.
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Apr 8, 2015 00:23
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I appreciate this thread though, because it's allowed me to really examine my feelings on the issue and discover I care about it even less than I initially thought I might. Most relaxing thread I've read in D&D in a year.
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Apr 8, 2015 00:28
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Chiwie posted:This is what happens when you try to take over Asia and are forced to sign an unconditional surrender. Suck it up OP. I too support a renewed Cold War and the resulting nuclear holocaust.
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Apr 8, 2015 00:32
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Mr. Nice! posted:This cannot be understated. Japan is one of the most racist places on the planet. Japan is more xenophobic than racist. Similar, but not same. Korea is racist and xenophobic.
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Apr 8, 2015 00:44
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Chomskyan posted:I too support a renewed Cold War and the resulting nuclear holocaust. Good on you for being open to learning.
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Apr 8, 2015 00:45
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Chomskyan posted:I too support a renewed Cold War and the resulting nuclear holocaust. China doesn't have ICBM's capable of hitting the US so I'm ok with this
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Apr 8, 2015 00:56
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Chomskyan posted:I too support a renewed Cold War and the resulting nuclear holocaust. There are many things you can say about the Cold War. "Involved nuclear holocaust" is not one of them.
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Apr 8, 2015 00:59
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Bolow posted:China doesn't have ICBM's capable of hitting the US so I'm ok with this You're completely wrong about this FYI.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:07
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Chomskyan posted:I too support a renewed Cold War and the resulting nuclear holocaust. Good thing the US bases on Okinawa are there to stop it eh?
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Apr 8, 2015 01:07
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It's frankly disturbing to me how many quislings we have outing themselves in this thread.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:09
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If nothing else, this thread does provide a unique insight into the minds of military apologists.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:16
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Effectronica posted:It's frankly disturbing to me how many quislings we have outing themselves in this thread. I don't think you understand what that word means.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:18
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Chomskyan posted:You're completely wrong about this FYI. Oh they have like 44 total missiles that can reach the US of which half aren't even MIRV capable. My mistake We'll ignore the fact that absolutely none of these can be brought to alert status inside an hour and all of their SSBN's are louder than poo poo. So they can't preemptively strike poo poo But yeah Nuclear War is going to break out because China doesn't get to fish off the coast of the Philippines Nintendo Kid posted:There are many things you can say about the Cold War. "Involved nuclear holocaust" is not one of them. Reagans largest failure 
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Apr 8, 2015 01:20
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Dead Reckoning posted:I don't think you understand what that word means. We have multiple people declaring their belief that if you lose a war, you should collaborate with the occupiers. What's worse, some of them seem to be former members of the military.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:21
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Effectronica posted:It's frankly disturbing to me how many quislings we have outing themselves in this thread. Chomskyan posted:If nothing else, this thread does provide a unique insight into the minds of military apologists. Hmm yes, those other people, they're certainly much dumber than me aren't they.  Effectronica posted:We have multiple people declaring their belief that if you lose a war, you should collaborate with the occupiers. What's worse, some of them seem to be former members of the military.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:21
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I see we've reached the part of the thread where you stop attempting to defend your increasingly nonsensical arguments and simply start pretending you've won the internet smartguy award. Well, actually, if you were smart, you'd be able to figure out that I was talking about the US government, and about the shocking numbers of our soldiers that would collaborate with Nazis if they invaded, because vae victis. Then, eventually, you'd be able to come around to the possibility of something that wasn't an absolute statement, where US bases on Okinawa are actually different from the Nazis rounding up Polish Jews.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:26
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Today, Cletus taught me that modern-day Germans who reject National Socialism are quislings.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:26
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Bolow posted:Oh they have like 44 total missiles that can reach the US of which half aren't even MIRV capable. My mistake Cool, ignoring all your smoke blowing, I'm glad we've settled that you were completely wrong about China not having nuclear strike capabilities against the U.S. Rent-A-Cop posted:I see we've reached the part of the thread where you stop attempting to defend your increasingly nonsensical arguments and simply start pretending you've won the internet smartguy award. Haha, are you sad that someone is stealing your schtick Rent-A-Cop? Red and Black fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 01:26
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Effectronica posted:Well, actually, if you were smart, you'd be able to figure out that I was talking about the US government, and about the shocking numbers of our soldiers that would collaborate with Nazis if they invaded, because vae victis. Then, eventually, you'd be able to come around to the possibility of something that wasn't an absolute statement, where US bases on Okinawa are actually different from the Nazis rounding up Polish Jews. In this analogy is it the Okinawans or the Marines who are the Jews?
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Apr 8, 2015 01:27
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I don't understand. Junior Enlisted Warriors rah? Chomskyan posted:Cool, ignoring all your smoke blowing, I'm glad we've settled that you were completely wrong about China not having nuclear strike capabilities against the U.S. That's cool so we gonna get back on the topic on how the Okinawan complaints are mostly NIMBY'ism bullshit
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Apr 8, 2015 01:29
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Did I have a stroke or is the above word salad? Hopefully you did have a stroke, and hopefully your chums do too. Rent-A-Cop posted:In this scenario is it the Okinawans or the Marines who are the Jews? There's no loving scenario. There are people in or previously in the US Military, in this thread, defending American bases on Okinawa because we conquered Japan and therefore we can do what we want with them. Using this logic, the Nazis conquered Poland, therefore they were perfectly justified in rounding up and gassing Polish Jews. If the US was conquered, meanwhile, the people in this thread's logic, regardless of who actually did it, is that collaboration is what you should do. TheImmigrant posted:Today, Cletus taught me that modern-day Germans who reject National Socialism are quislings. Being unable to read must make lawyering extremely painful.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:30
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Effectronica posted:Hopefully you did have a stroke, and hopefully your chums do too. Effectronica posted:There's no loving scenario. There are people in or previously in the US Military, in this thread, defending American bases on Okinawa because we conquered Japan and therefore we can do what we want with them. Using this logic, the Nazis conquered Poland, therefore they were perfectly justified in rounding up and gassing Polish Jews. If the US was conquered, meanwhile, the people in this thread's logic, regardless of who actually did it, is that collaboration is what you should do.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:34
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Usually you have to talk to Tom Clancy's ghost to hear about China nuking the US. I guess Chomskyan is a maverick!
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Apr 8, 2015 01:35
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Nintendo Kid posted:Usually you have to talk to Tom Clancy's ghost to hear about China nuking the US. I guess Chomskyan is a maverick! Okay, would a second Cold War be a good thing or a bad thing?
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Apr 8, 2015 01:37
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Effectronica posted:Okay, would a second Cold War be a good thing or a bad thing?
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Apr 8, 2015 01:38
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There should be zero negotiation with the Japanese until the LDP are out of power.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:39
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Effectronica posted:Well, actually, if you were smart, you'd be able to figure out that I was talking about the US government, and about the shocking numbers of our soldiers that would collaborate with Nazis if they invaded, because vae victis. Then, eventually, you'd be able to come around to the possibility of something that wasn't an absolute statement, where US bases on Okinawa are actually different from the Nazis rounding up Polish Jews. Effectronica posted:There's no loving scenario. There are people in or previously in the US Military, in this thread, defending American bases on Okinawa because we conquered Japan and therefore we can do what we want with them. Using this logic, the Nazis conquered Poland, therefore they were perfectly justified in rounding up and gassing Polish Jews. If the US was conquered, meanwhile, the people in this thread's logic, regardless of who actually did it, is that collaboration is what you should do. This would seem to argue that you believe cooperation with the occupiers would be contingent on things like the casus belli, and a judgement about the nature of the occupying government. However, the government that was occupied by the U.S. in this case was an aggressively expansionist imperial power that was literally allied with the Nazis and had their own fun portfolio of horrors across Asia. And also attacked the U.S. first. So what point are you actually making here? This seems less like you're detecting a traitorous strain of thought in current service members, and more like you're literally cheerleading an Axis power and arguing they should have resisted to the last. Or maybe arguing that the current U.S. military bases are the equivalent of Nazi concentration camps? Neither of these positions are good or reasonable. edit: I guess you could also just be a big fan of genocide, since that seems to be both what you assume occupying governments are going to be getting up to as the default option and (ignoring morality, from a purely pragmatic standpoint) the most sensible policy of a government that is occupying a hostile territory with a population that has your outlook. LGD fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 01:39
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hahaha oh wow this is a disaster of a thread
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Apr 8, 2015 01:40
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Effectronica posted:Okay, would a second Cold War be a good thing or a bad thing? Depends on what ideology it's held against.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:41
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Effectronica posted:We have multiple people declaring their belief that if you lose a war, you should collaborate with the occupiers. What's worse, some of them seem to be former members of the military. That said, when your other alternatives are "see your people and cities continue to be reduced to ash by an enemy you are powerless to stop" and "suffer an apocalyptic amphibious invasion that would have made the brutality of the Eastern Front look like a tea party", accepting an imposed government in order to avoid further bloodshed is an entirely moral choice. You do know that the Code of Conduct for Members of the Armed Forces does not contain a blanket prohibition on surrender? EDIT:  holy poo pooEffectronica posted:There's no loving scenario. There are people in or previously in the US Military, in this thread, defending American bases on Okinawa because we conquered Japan and therefore we can do what we want with them. Using this logic, the Nazis conquered Poland, therefore they were perfectly justified in rounding up and gassing Polish Jews. If the US was conquered, meanwhile, the people in this thread's logic, regardless of who actually did it, is that collaboration is what you should do.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:43
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LGD posted:This would seem to argue that you believe cooperation with the occupiers would be contingent on things like the casus belli, and a judgement about the nature of the occupying government. However, the government that was occupied by the U.S. in this case was an aggressively expansionist imperial power that was literally allied with the Nazis and had their own fun portfolio of horrors across Asia. And also attacked the U.S. first. So what point are you actually making here? This seems less like you're detecting a traitorous strain of thought in current service members, and more that you're literally cheerleading an Axis power and arguing they should have resisted to the last. The point is that it's a bad idea, and the people who have it should abandon it because it leads to monstrous conclusions, such as that American military bases on Okinawa are morally identical to Nazis raping and murdering their way across Poland. A secondary point would be that if this is a common way of thinking in American forces on Okinawa, Okinawan resentment is fairly justified. A third, new point would be that your inability to see the world except in terms of opposing sides is another bad idea, and you should abandon it because it makes you look
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Apr 8, 2015 01:44
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I'm so sorry about your jet noise. Truly it is a crime against humanity. I'm also sorry that thanks to the US military presence, you only have to spend 1% of GDP to defend yourself against your peers. So sorry. Really sorry about how the US is backing you against China's outrageous south sea claims. Really sorry. I also can't remember why we forced them into an uncondional surrender and built the bases in the first pla...    Oh. poo poo.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:44
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Maybe if we occupied them in a more literal sense it wouldn't have taken them until the year 2014 to ban child pornography.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:45
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'd like to start by pointing out that the US military isn't occupying Okinawa in the way that term is used in a military context, so there isn't really any occupying force to collaborate with these days. Take that up with the people who said that we may do what we like with Okinawa and Okinawans because we won the war.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:46
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Chiwie posted:Oh. poo poo. So many women left unraped, so many babies un-bayoneted. Really a shame.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:47
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Effectronica posted:The point is that it's a bad idea, and the people who have it should abandon it because it leads to monstrous conclusions, such as that American military bases on Okinawa are morally identical to Nazis raping and murdering their way across Poland. A secondary point would be that if this is a common way of thinking in American forces on Okinawa, Okinawan resentment is fairly justified. A third, new point would be that your inability to see the world except in terms of opposing sides is another bad idea, and you should abandon it because it makes you look Effectronica posted:Take that up with the people who said that we may do what we like with Okinawa and Okinawans because we won the war. But nobody seems to be coming to that conclusion but you? Most people seem to be able to separate "an occupying government is going to arrange some things to suit its economic/defense/political purposes, usually at some inconvenience and expense to the locals" and literal Nazi-style genocide. Okinawan resentment is justified, but only about as justified as any resentment based on regionalism and NIMBYish concerns ever is- and worth taking about as seriously.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:56
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