The new battle for Okinawa

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The new battle for Okinawa

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

JeffersonClay posted:

It's worth noting that U.S. military bases are in Japan and supported by the Japanese government because Japan is constitutionally barred from creating a military force significant enough to hedge against China and Russia.

That's not really true. Japan can have a "self-defense force" which is a military in all but name. The Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force is one of the more powerful navies in the world and the Japan Air Self-Defense Force can give anyone in Asia a run for their money. Both rock top of the line US hardware along with some impressive domestic systems.

Frankly the government in Tokyo cares more about having a bunch of American whoopass around to wave in China's face than it does about Okinawans getting woken up by jets.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Apr 1, 2015

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 09:10

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 13:44

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Chomskyan posted:

Whether the removal of Futenma from Okinawa would hurt the Okinawan economy, or the Japanese national defense are interesting questions. But they don't really change the underlying fact that the Okinawans should have the final say in whether a base is established on their island or not. Japan can find another place for the base outside the island if it really needs it, or if it can't find a place then maybe it should consider a more diplomatic approach to China. But at this point in time, nobody with any serious commitment to democratic principles can support the new base at Henoko. Okinawa has unambiguously demonstrated it's opposition to it.

This is just NIMBYism in the language of democratic idealism. Part of being part of a larger democratic society is accepting that sometimes everyone else outvotes you on what is going to happen in your town.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2015 09:15

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Venom Snake posted:

I'm not really informed ... but something needs to be done

America in a nutshell folks.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2015 23:47

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

SedanChair posted:

Is marriage ... a sign of good relations?

Well, presumably if there are x marriages per year then at least x(years) Okinawans like Americans.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2015 18:25

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

VitalSigns posted:

Gay marriage is unconstitutional in Japan.

This is either racist or misogynist but I can't tell which.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2015 02:47

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

He brings up an interesting point. "They stealin' are wimmins!" is at the heart of a lot of the more xenophobic objections to the US military presence in Japan.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2015 03:45

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Randarkman posted:

So this is basically locals upset about foreigners banging their women and having mixed-race children?

A lot of Japan is just generally kind of upset that foreigners exist.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 00:07

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Effectronica posted:

It's frankly disturbing to me how many quislings we have outing themselves in this thread.

Chomskyan posted:

If nothing else, this thread does provide a unique insight into the minds of military apologists.

I see we've reached the part of the thread where you stop attempting to defend your increasingly nonsensical arguments and simply start pretending you've won the internet smartguy award.

Hmm yes, those other people, they're certainly much dumber than me aren't they. :smugdog:

Effectronica posted:

We have multiple people declaring their belief that if you lose a war, you should collaborate with the occupiers. What's worse, some of them seem to be former members of the military.

Forums poster Effectronica cheering on the brave Japanese Imperial Army in TYOOL 2015.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 01:21

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Effectronica posted:

Well, actually, if you were smart, you'd be able to figure out that I was talking about the US government, and about the shocking numbers of our soldiers that would collaborate with Nazis if they invaded, because vae victis. Then, eventually, you'd be able to come around to the possibility of something that wasn't an absolute statement, where US bases on Okinawa are actually different from the Nazis rounding up Polish Jews.

I don't understand.

In this analogy is it the Okinawans or the Marines who are the Jews?

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 01:27

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Effectronica posted:

Hopefully you did have a stroke, and hopefully your chums do too.

I'm torn between resenting your wishing me to have a stroke and welcoming your assertion that I have chums.

Effectronica posted:

There's no loving scenario. There are people in or previously in the US Military, in this thread, defending American bases on Okinawa because we conquered Japan and therefore we can do what we want with them. Using this logic, the Nazis conquered Poland, therefore they were perfectly justified in rounding up and gassing Polish Jews. If the US was conquered, meanwhile, the people in this thread's logic, regardless of who actually did it, is that collaboration is what you should do.

When you think about it the real quislings are the cowardly Ryukyuans who refuse to throw off the imperial yoke and live free under the benevolent rule of the Second Shō Dynasty.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 01:34

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Effectronica posted:

Okay, would a second Cold War be a good thing or a bad thing?

Depends on whether or not you own stock in LockMart and Raytheon.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 01:38

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Chiwie posted:

Oh. poo poo.

Bunch of quislings surrendering before the US even invaded China. Had they any integrity at all they would have fought to the last man.

So many women left unraped, so many babies un-bayoneted. Really a shame.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 01:47

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

afatwhiteloaf posted:

Not wanting a foreign military base in your country is the exact same thing as homeowners in the U.S. not wanting homeless shelters built near their neighborhood.

Yeah they don't have a problem with the bases in Iwakuni or Sasebo. They just don't like the ones near them for exactly the same reasons everyone else on Earth dislikes large industrial campuses near them. (Plus a healthy dollop of xenophobia/racism)

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 02:22

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

VitalSigns posted:

So if the central government does something, it can't be immoral?

If Okinawans or the Okinawan local government have a conflict with the Japanese central government the US would be morally in the wrong if it interfered in what was obviously an internal political issue by changing the SOFA without the approval of the host nation government.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 02:28

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Scrub-Niggurath posted:

Im glad we nuked japan and I begin wooting irl every time i think about it

I think the nukings were at least in part responsible for anime so they weren't an unqualified success.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 15:36

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Effectronica posted:

But it'd be pretty hard to prove

This hasn't stopped your "American Hiroshima celebrations" theory.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 16:32

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Effectronica posted:

The only thing you've offered against it is

I'm just staggering under the weight of the evidence you've offered for it.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 16:37

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Effectronica posted:

I hope you're willing to put the same amount of disdain for anyone using the phrase "common sense"

Oh I most definitely am. "Common sense" is shorthand for "A million morons believe this so it must be true."

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 16:54

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Zo posted:

I mean effectronica has obvious mental problems but its also not so hard imagining america pressuring the japanese central government in the background on this particular issue.

Governments put pressure on other governments to negotiate. It's one of the most basic reasons for their existence. I'm sure the US government wasn't thrilled with building an expensive new base in Henoko but the Japanese government exerted pressure to move the base in Futenma so that's what's happening.

VitalSigns posted:

Even if it were 100% the Japanese government steamrolling over local concerns and the US were just rolling with whatever, that still wouldn't make it right.

Local concerns are not always justified.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 00:42

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 13:44

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

blowfish posted:

or maybe we should have a world government that gets all the guns in case we have to blow up an alien invasion (and to fight crime in their spare time), which is going to happen soon(tm)

But then the Joker will kill Superman's wife and we're all hosed thanks a lot forums poster blowfish.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 19:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The new battle for Okinawa